Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

[PurestEvil]

I knew I’d get a reaction from you on that one. But yeah, hood as in very much oriented towards people of colour, particularly those in lower socioeconomic situations, thus they’re more likely to be reactionary. Geekdom101 is a pretty good example of this, last I checked his audience really do have that lexicon associated with more hood culture if anything, you can see this on Instagram the most actually. Just the truth really, hood culture is misogynistic and riddled with toxic masculinity, just like literally every aspect of white culture is as well in the lower socioeconomic regions.

If you think both poor white and "hood" cultures are riddled with misogyny and toxic masculinity, why single out "hood" culture and people of colour? Don't know, but this isn't the first sketchy comment you've had on race on this board. You should maybe check your own biases.

Because if you actually read what I saying, the culture Dragon Ball has attracted is more hood orientated. Nice try though, try not to burst a vein making yourself mad over nothing.

Just because there are black fans with "hood" backgrounds in the DBZ fandom, it doesn't mean that prejudiced elements from white cultures don't influence DBZ fans' bigotry, nor that "hood" culture is the main source of DBZ fans' bigotry. Who's to say that bigoted discourse among DBZ fans are the reason why most of these fans become prejudiced rather than the discourse simply affirming their preconceived beliefs anyhow?

[Yuji]

Because if you actually read what I saying, the culture Dragon Ball has attracted is more hood orientated. Nice try though, try not to burst a vein making yourself mad over nothing.

I'm not angry over anything. It just seems you have some kind of implicit bias against black communities based on this and other comments you've made on the forums before. As you can see from subsequent responses from other users, I'm not alone in that sentiment.

[MasenkoHA]

There’s also a very “hood” element to the Dragon Ball community which I think helps to cultivate further misogynistic fools and what not.

Interesting choice of words there

I wonder what you mean

I knew I’d get a reaction from you on that one. But yeah, hood as in very much oriented towards people of colour, particularly those in lower socioeconomic situations, thus they’re more likely to be reactionary. Geekdom101 is a pretty good example of this, last I checked his audience really do have that lexicon associated with more hood culture if anything, you can see this on Instagram the most actually. Just the truth really, hood culture is misogynistic and riddled with toxic masculinity, just like literally every aspect of white culture is as well in the lower socioeconomic regions.

When you go so far into chronically online leftism and somehow spin right into alt right

[goku the krump dancer]

I knew I’d get a reaction from you on that one. But yeah, hood as in very much oriented towards people of colour, particularly those in lower socioeconomic situations, thus they’re more likely to be reactionary. Geekdom101 is a pretty good example of this, last I checked his audience really do have that lexicon associated with more hood culture if anything, you can see this on Instagram the most actually. Just the truth really, hood culture is misogynistic and riddled with toxic masculinity, just like literally every aspect of white culture is as well in the lower socioeconomic regions.

If you think both poor white and "hood" cultures are riddled with misogyny and toxic masculinity, why single out "hood" culture and people of colour? Don't know, but this isn't the first sketchy comment you've had on race on this board. You should maybe check your own biases.

Because if you actually read what I saying, the culture Dragon Ball has attracted is more hood orientated.

You must have a very narrow view of the world if you really believe that Poor White Trash and Hoodlums are the primary groups of people that the fandom of this otherwise GLOBAL PHENOMENON is made of. Especially with your frame of reference being "13 year olds on instagram make a bunch of dumb HA! GAAAAY! jokes or use slang terms you're unfamiliar with under a Youtuber's fan page."

Such a false equivalency from a non statement.

[jjgp1112]

If you think both poor white and "hood" cultures are riddled with misogyny and toxic masculinity, why single out "hood" culture and people of colour? Don't know, but this isn't the first sketchy comment you've had on race on this board. You should maybe check your own biases.

Because if you actually read what I saying, the culture Dragon Ball has attracted is more hood orientated.

You must have a very narrow view of the world if you really believe that Poor White Trash and Hoodlums are the primary groups of people that the fandom of this otherwise GLOBAL PHENOMENON is made of. Especially with your frame of reference being "13 year olds on instagram make a bunch of dumb HA! GAAAAY! jokes or use slang terms you're unfamiliar with under a Youtuber's fan page."

Such a false equivalency from a non statement.

Or that toxic masculinity and misogyny is a trait unique to The Poors.

I've long felt the left has a weird patronizing attitude towards the poor and uneducated.

[JulieYBM]

Well, who are 'the left'? Anyone can call themselves 'the left' and be mistaken for being 'the left'. As someone who self-identifies as being left-wing (to say nothing of being absolutely poor and high school educated) I would say anyone who looks down on the poor and uneducated would not qualify as being of 'the left' because that behavior is decidedly against left-wing ideas. I know that there are many people who would self-describe as being 'the left' but whose actions and ideas are decidedly centrist or conservative.

On the subject of Dragon Ball, wow does it suck at depicting men! Remember that time it depicted a villain as a gay sissy stereotype! That sucked, I hope they don't do that again!

[Shaddy]

I dunno, I think you could make the argument that there is a degree of elitism among white leftists, especially middle and upper class social media types, your Vaushes and Hasans and what have you. Just look at how the right is often depicted as low-class, uneducated rednecks, or the persisting idea itself that the south is conservative, when it's more that all the voters are suppressed (hint hint, it's because they're full of nonwhite people who vote democrat way more often but white dems overlook their voting rights being attacked).

I think it's worth addressing those things within your own movements because nobody is infallible or immune to bias, and calling them frauds or phonies is, at best, a rhetorical strategy to point the people in question's hypocrisy out to their face. Someone with good politics isn't necessarily a good person.

[JulieYBM]

Toriyama turning Yamcha into a cheater despite initially being depicted as afraid of girls shines a lot of light on two different types of toxic masuclinity: the idea that men with a fear of women (in a romantic and sexual context, I would imagine was the point) are jokes. Then later Yamcha becomes a vehicle for depicting him as a cheater, seemingly cavalierly, if we're to go by the description Furuya Tooru gave of his discussion with Toriyama on the subject.

Toriyama's fixation with not writing—how should I say—'morality' and JUMP editorial's lack of consideration is really a damning combination that leads to a lot of easily avoidable bullshit. It's one thing to depict a character flaw but it's an entirely other thing to just not say anything about it. I think in this case—when combined with other elements spread across the series—it just comes across as if the creative staff are shrugging their shoulders and not caring if they send mixed or shitty messages through the art.

I dunno, I think you could make the argument that there is a degree of elitism among white leftists, especially middle and upper class social media types, your Vaushes and Hasans and what have you. Just look at how the right is often depicted as low-class, uneducated rednecks, or the persisting idea itself that the south is conservative, when it's more that all the voters are suppressed (hint hint, it's because they're full of nonwhite people who vote democrat way more often but white dems overlook their voting rights being attacked).

I think it's worth addressing those things within your own movements because nobody is infallible or immune to bias, and calling them frauds or phonies is, at best, a rhetorical strategy to point the people in question's hypocrisy out to their face. Someone with good politics isn't necessarily a good person.

I don't disagree and I see my post wasn't clear enough. I think any degree of social or economic advantage leads to an erosion of holding leftist ideas. I think if you have more privelege than someone else you should always be mindful of the priveleges you have and how they make you blind to the injustices others face, hence the idea that you can talk-the-talk but you actually need to walk-the-walk. A big reason I got out of the YouTube political commentary game was because these figures were essentially blind to intersectional politics and the challenges faces by anyone who was not cishet white men who were abled.

'The Left' and 'The Right' are these weird, nebulous terms that people (typically already in actual political parties) essentially act as if are organizations (like political parties) when they're really not. Something-something monoliths and all that.

[ATA]

There’s also a very “hood” element to the Dragon Ball community which I think helps to cultivate further misogynistic fools and what not.

Interesting choice of words there

I wonder what you mean

Very interesting because in what ways do Dragon Ball have Hood elements?

Edit: After reading more of the thread. I will not be participating in this thread beyond this comment. The nigga in me can't do it. But my closing statement. What does Geekdom101 gotta do with the hood and how does he speak for "the hood". What does DBZ have to do with the hood? I doubt Toriyama even knows what a hood is. This fourm tends to be insensitive or openly against minorities and oppressed groups at times. When members say stuff like "homeboy" and now this "hood" shit. It's like saying the N word (ends in er) without actually saying the N word.

Because if you actually read what I saying, the culture Dragon Ball has attracted is more hood orientated.

Statements like this is not only wrong(as DB is loved globally) but just flat out ignorant.

[8000 Saiyan]

Honestly, both the Left and the Right are patronizing in their own ways.

I always get the feeling that left-wingers would only tolerate right-wingers if they agreed them with on everything. I mean, most historians seem to criticize Republicans for not liking the New Deal and wish every Republican was like Robert La Follette, a Republican who was anti-big business, pro-farmers, pro-unions and wanted to nationalize railroads and other utilities.

[Soppa Saia People]

It's almost cliche at this point, but it kinda goes without saying that a lot of left leaning people would tolerate right leaning people if the latter wasn't actively trying to take away the rights of racial, sexually, and gender minorities.

For God's sake look at the abortion stuff that happened not even a year ago.

[8000 Saiyan]

Not really, the left-wing would still hate the right-wing if they weren't taking the way voting rights or the right to choose.

Like I said before, the Democrats only like Republicans like Teddy Roosevelt and Robert La Follette, who would not win primaries in the GOP today. In fact, La Follette would not even be a Democrat. Despite liking Woodrow Wilson more than Teddy, he felt that the Federal Reserve bill he signed that lead to the creation of the Federal Reserve system was too friendly to banks.

But I guess they also kinda like Eisenhower, who kept the New Deal.

[WittyUsername]

Personally, I wouldn’t have much of a problem with right-wingers if they weren’t actively trying to set America back to the 1950s, and didn’t keep calling people they don’t like groomers.

Toriyama turning Yamcha into a cheater despite initially being depicted as afraid of girls shines a lot of light on two different types of toxic masuclinity: the idea that men with a fear of women (in a romantic and sexual context, I would imagine was the point) are jokes. Then later Yamcha becomes a vehicle for depicting him as a cheater, seemingly cavalierly, if we're to go by the description Furuya Tooru gave of his discussion with Toriyama on the subject.

Toriyama isn’t even consistent on whether or not Yamcha is some cheating womanizer. He also claimed in another interview that Yamcha never truly got over his fear of women, and even lost a job as a bouncer because of it. It doesn’t help that we never actually see any examples in the series of Yamcha picking up women, not even in anime filler.

[jjgp1112]

Personally, I wouldn’t have much of a problem with right-wingers if they weren’t actively trying to set America back to the 1950s, and didn’t keep calling people they don’t like groomers.

Toriyama turning Yamcha into a cheater despite initially being depicted as afraid of girls shines a lot of light on two different types of toxic masuclinity: the idea that men with a fear of women (in a romantic and sexual context, I would imagine was the point) are jokes. Then later Yamcha becomes a vehicle for depicting him as a cheater, seemingly cavalierly, if we're to go by the description Furuya Tooru gave of his discussion with Toriyama on the subject.

Toriyama isn’t even consistent on whether or not Yamcha is some cheating womanizer. He also claimed in another interview that Yamcha never truly got over his fear of women, and even lost a job as a bouncer because of it. It doesn’t help that we never actually see any examples in the series of Yamcha picking up women, not even in anime filler.

I think it's more plausible that Bulma's insecurities drove Yamcha to cheating in a "Well if she thinks this is what I'm up to anyway, why the fuck not?" situation and of course Bulma would be an unreliable narrator to Trumks

[JulieYBM]

I don't really think victim-blaming Blooma is the right answer, but considering Toriyama making Blooma get humiliated by pissing her panties in the first chapter is followed by having her being sexually harassed and humiliated by an old man in the third chapter I get the feeling Toriyama doesn't think highly of how men relate to women.

Hell, ethical non-monogomy is a thing, maybe have Yamcha suggest that to Blooma instead of just randomly having him cheat on her and then not have the story actually say something about cheating.

[Aim]

If you think both poor white and "hood" cultures are riddled with misogyny and toxic masculinity, why single out "hood" culture and people of colour? Don't know, but this isn't the first sketchy comment you've had on race on this board. You should maybe check your own biases.

Because if you actually read what I saying, the culture Dragon Ball has attracted is more hood orientated. Nice try though, try not to burst a vein making yourself mad over nothing.

Just because there are black fans with "hood" backgrounds in the DBZ fandom, it doesn't mean that prejudiced elements from white cultures don't influence DBZ fans' bigotry, nor that "hood" culture is the main source of DBZ fans' bigotry. Who's to say that bigoted discourse among DBZ fans are the reason why most of these fans become prejudiced rather than the discourse simply affirming their preconceived beliefs anyhow?

I didn’t say hood culture was the main source of this bigotry, but instead an amplifier, kind of like the ‘workout bro’ scene, though not as popular, still very much influential.

Like how the predominantly white Funimation company dubbed Super had some elements of this toxicity for a reason. However, like I said, looking at Instagram and other sub communities it’s clear that the culture that has recently had an uptick all over the world is that kind of hood culture, and it’s not just Black people who adopt it, but white people as well, ironically one of the largest consumers of hood culture are white boys. Doesn’t make it any less misogynistic or problematic. It’s just a result of how America in general has succeeded in really punching down on communities and how these communities with their culture have related to Dragon Ball.

[JulieYBM]

You could just not use 'hood' like that. At all. Please don't.

[Shaddy]

I always get the feeling that left-wingers would only tolerate right-wingers if they agreed them with on everything.

What is this even supposed to mean? If a right-winger agreed with the left on everything, they wouldn't be right-wing. Are you suggesting leftists never deal with people who even remotely disagree with them? Because that's obviously not true, since they vote for certified not-leftist™ democrats literally all the time.

[8000 Saiyan]

I always get the feeling that left-wingers would only tolerate right-wingers if they agreed them with on everything.

What is this even supposed to mean? If a right-winger agreed with the left on everything, they wouldn't be right-wing. Are you suggesting leftists never deal with people who even remotely disagree with them? Because that's obviously not true, since they vote for certified not-leftist™ democrats literally all the time.

Of course, they always deal with people with disagree with them. It's politics we're talking about here.

That's exactly my point. Left-wingers would only like the right if it was like the left, basically another left. From what I've read, it seems like many pro-New Deal historians believe that the Republicans should have become like the New Deal Democratic party of the 1930's to 1970's, and not the centrist to liberal Eisenhower/Dewey/Rockefeller GOP wing of the 40's to 60's (there were center-left Republicans like Rockefeller, Jacob Javits and John Lindsay). Eisenhower governed like a centrist, accepting the New Deal but being more fiscally responsible.

You can prove me wrong and say that the ideal Democratic party is something like the center to center-left New Deal Democrat party and that the ideal GOP is a center to center-right Eisenhower GOP party, but I get the feeling that many people would want both parties to be center-left to left-wing. After all, back in the early 20th century, there WERE left-wingers in both the Dems and the GOP, like William Jennings Bryan and Robert La Follette, who shared a lot in common, being in favor of the common man and being anti-business.

[dragonmagico]

You could just not use 'hood' like that. At all. Please don't.

Aim out here showing how racist he is feking yikes...