Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

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Peril
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Re: Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

Post by Peril » Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:07 pm

My only real issues are Roshi and Vegeta. Vegeta is very touch and go but overall I tend to not like him. There are moments where I do, typically when he is being a dad and husband. But all the saiyan pride bs isn't as cool as people think. Its pathetic really. Vegeta's constant resting bitchiness and pettiness in Z was okay because that was him. My issue is he never got punished for his wrong doings, not even reflected over what he has done. And the "lesson" he learned recently regarding pride and genocide and Granola makes no sense and was dumb. Like Vegeta can't be humbled by or ever regret his evil past. It is so dumb.

Sad to say, I give people who claim Vegeta is their favorite character the side eye. :? Nothing personal though.

Roshi...nothing needs to be said. Especially these days. I think what annoys me the most is even in Super, he still tries to touch Bulma. Is nothing sacred to this creep? Isn't Bulma at least a friend to him?

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Re: Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:59 pm

Peril wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:07 pm Roshi...nothing needs to be said. Especially these days. I think what annoys me the most is even in Super, he still tries to touch Bulma. Is nothing sacred to this creep? Isn't Bulma at least a friend to him?
Roshi saw Bulma as a sex object from the very minute he first met her. It ain't that surprising, but it ain't NOT annoying either!
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Re: Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:38 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:59 pm
Peril wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:07 pm Roshi...nothing needs to be said. Especially these days. I think what annoys me the most is even in Super, he still tries to touch Bulma. Is nothing sacred to this creep? Isn't Bulma at least a friend to him?
Roshi saw Bulma as a sex object from the very minute he first met her. It ain't that surprising, but it ain't NOT annoying either!
Shit, she was a minor is he was still chasing after that girlpussy. He's a terrible human being and really shouldn't be in a mainstream project. The series just ignoring his continued bullshit behavior is exhausting.
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Re: Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

Post by fleahop » Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:17 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:38 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:59 pm
Peril wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:07 pm Roshi...nothing needs to be said. Especially these days. I think what annoys me the most is even in Super, he still tries to touch Bulma. Is nothing sacred to this creep? Isn't Bulma at least a friend to him?
Roshi saw Bulma as a sex object from the very minute he first met her. It ain't that surprising, but it ain't NOT annoying either!
Shit, she was a minor is he was still chasing after that girlpussy. He's a terrible human being and really shouldn't be in a mainstream project. The series just ignoring his continued bullshit behavior is exhausting.
This. The issue somewhat lies with the fanbase. It feels like the general community has only recently become cognizant of how awful these things are/were. Even this website still has defenders, and after looking at threads related to this in the past...well let's just say our history is not the best. We need to be more vocal as a community to not only come out against such treatment (and yes, that includes any retellings) but to also demand better, positive representation. I have really had enough of this.
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Re: Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:30 pm

This is a country that banned Child porn only in 2014 (and that excluded Animation and Manga *not sure if thats changed*)
https://www.reuters.com/article/japan-p ... SL20140618

With that said, I was first exposed thru the BLT/Ocean dub and never knew Roshi was a perv. When I did I really feel like it didnt add anything to the character. In the manga it's a "gag" thats used ever once in a while. TOEI (who flanderized any character in their filler) has him do it 99.9% of the time he's on screen.

I do feel there was no excuse for him in that TIen episode of Super. That really marred the episode and its one I honestly dont plan on going back to. It was really uncomfortable to watch.

Changing Roshi in retelling I have no issues with

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Re: Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

Post by BootyCheeksJohnson » Sat Feb 11, 2023 1:41 pm

While he's not a character that I believe should be put on a pedestal/looked up to, I do believe that Goku could be used as an example of positive masculinity in media (when he's not being a moron to progress the plot). Goku never fights with the intention to kill for sport like his Saiyan brethren, he only does it for self improvement. Goku even looks down upon Raditz and disowns him as his brother for being a cold blooded murderer. Goku despite his immense strength never talks down to characters like Kuririn, Bluma, or Yamcha for being weaker than him. He always talks to them as equals, and values their friendship. He's also not afraid to admit when he needs help (outside of a fight anyway) and goes to Bulma whenever he needs help with something he doesn't understand because he see's the value in her intellect. Also he was the character that started the adult Shonen protagonist who's voiced by a woman trend. So that's gotta count for something.
Just to be clear I'm talking exclusively about Goku. The other problematic elements of Dragon Ball seem to have been discussed in great detail in this thread already. I don't have anything unique to add there.

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Re: Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:26 pm

Shaddy wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:53 am
8000 Saiyan wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:56 am
Of course, they always deal with people with disagree with them. It's politics we're talking about here.

That's exactly my point. Left-wingers would only like the right if it was like the left, basically another left.
I'm still not seeing your point here. Both sides essentially want the other to not exist, because that's how their side can shape society to their worldview. The right and left are fundamentally opposed, why the hell would they "like" each other?
Gosh, is it really that hard for you to understand?

Of course that most left-wingers and right-wingers don't like each other. All I'm saying is that if right-wingers were in favor of stuff like universal healthcare, LGBT rights and pro-abortion, then left-wingers like yourself would tolerate them, that's all.
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Re: Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:39 pm

Everyday I think about how Kuririn was ruined by Toriyama making him a cop. I really do not care for the notion that it entails.
8000 Saiyan wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:26 pm
Shaddy wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:53 am
8000 Saiyan wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 7:56 am
Of course, they always deal with people with disagree with them. It's politics we're talking about here.

That's exactly my point. Left-wingers would only like the right if it was like the left, basically another left.
I'm still not seeing your point here. Both sides essentially want the other to not exist, because that's how their side can shape society to their worldview. The right and left are fundamentally opposed, why the hell would they "like" each other?
Gosh, is it really that hard for you to understand?

Of course that most left-wingers and right-wingers don't like each other. All I'm saying is that if right-wingers were in favor of stuff like universal healthcare, LGBT rights and pro-abortion, then left-wingers like yourself would tolerate them, that's all.
I'm not sure what conclusive evidence you have for that being a monolithic position among self-described left-wing people but if we're going to dip our toes into anecdotal evidence then I would simply tell the right-wingers calling for an inherently left-wing position that they aren't being very right-wing and then assaunge from there if their other beliefs (say, on LGBTQIA+ folks) will require me to tell them to go die or not.
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Re: Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Wed Feb 15, 2023 10:09 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:39 pm Everyday I think about how Kuririn was ruined by Toriyama making him a cop. I really do not care for the notion that it entails.
8000 Saiyan wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:26 pm
Shaddy wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:53 am

I'm still not seeing your point here. Both sides essentially want the other to not exist, because that's how their side can shape society to their worldview. The right and left are fundamentally opposed, why the hell would they "like" each other?
Gosh, is it really that hard for you to understand?

Of course that most left-wingers and right-wingers don't like each other. All I'm saying is that if right-wingers were in favor of stuff like universal healthcare, LGBT rights and pro-abortion, then left-wingers like yourself would tolerate them, that's all.
I'm not sure what conclusive evidence you have for that being a monolithic position among self-described left-wing people but if we're going to dip our toes into anecdotal evidence then I would simply tell the right-wingers calling for an inherently left-wing position that they aren't being very right-wing and then assaunge from there if their other beliefs (say, on LGBTQIA+ folks) will require me to tell them to go die or not.
Believe me, I've seen American conservatives that do support the idea of universal healthcare on Reddit as being their most liberal position.
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Re: Dragon Ball and Toxic Masculinity

Post by Shaddy » Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:13 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:26 pm Gosh, is it really that hard for you to understand?

Of course that most left-wingers and right-wingers don't like each other. All I'm saying is that if right-wingers were in favor of stuff like universal healthcare, LGBT rights and pro-abortion, then left-wingers like yourself would tolerate them, that's all.
It's not "hard to understand", it's just a completely worthless statement. Your initial message was "well both the left AND right can be patronizing", and your explanation of this is "they wouldn't hate each other so much if they just stopped disagreeing on everything"? Yeah dude, no fucking shit. That's like saying "cold wouldn't be cold if it were hot", and then condescending to me for saying you're not being insightful for pointing this out.

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