Has your opinion on any Dragon Ball media changed over the years?

[MasenkoHA]

Perhaps a video game or story arc or movie you initially hated but grew fond of over time? Or maybe the opposite; something from Dragon Ball you used to love but later on as you re-evaluated it or your taste changed and you soured on it?

Dragon Ball Z Kai- Kai was my re-entry to the franchise after mostly abandoning it after 2002. I loved it. How can anyone prefer Z over this? The acting (the dub acting that is) was better, the story moved at a faster pace unlike Drag-on Ball Z, the music was so much more exciting and dynamic (at the time I was only really used to Faulconer's score for Z) this truly was the best and only way to watch Dragon Ball Z I thought for the longest time. But over time as I revisited Dragon Ball Z and read the manga and re-evaluated Kai I really kind of went backwards on my feeling towards it. It's hardly the Akira Toriyana cut it claims to be and kind of failed in that front from second 1. Those redrawn scenes looked horrendous (even when I loved Kai they always bothered me) and I honestly prefer Z taking its time to expand the characters and world than Kai's faster pacing especially as it pertains to the Saiyan arc.

Legend of Shen Long/Curse of the Blood Rubies: This one I never had strong feelings for but I used to always think of it as the inferior version of the 10th anniversary film. The first Dragon Ball film only looked somewhat nicer the the tv series and even moved more like a 2-parter than a film whereas Path to Power looked gorgeous and was a Capital M Movie. While Path to Power is definitely the better movie, I grew to appreciate Legend of Shen Long as feeling more like classic Dragon Ball to me. The og series art style, the Shunsuke Kikuchi score, Kohei Miyauchi as Muten Roshi.

The first Broli movie- This one I felt I conditioned myself to hate before I even saw it. I knew of the whole "Broli hated Goku because he cried when they were babies" a good decade before I even saw the film so I probably went in not wanting to like it. Much like I used to think Kai was the superior Dragon Ball Z I thought Dragon Ball Super Broli was the unquestionably superior Broli film. Then my second time rewatching it during a Dragon Ball Z movie marathon I ended up really enjoying it. It's possible because I rewatched it immediately after seeing the 6th and 7th Dragon Ball Z films i.e the two worst Dragon Ball films ever but I definitely enjoyed it far more the second go round than the first time.

[ABED]

My opinion of the ending of the manga changed when I understood the meaning behind it. I used to hate it as I saw it as Goku leaving his friends and family when he didn't really need to. He can teleport. I'm also not a fan of a random new character being the one to take over his role as "Earth's protector." Now I understand that it's not really about passing the torch. Uub's part is symbolic of Goku's mission to find stronger and stronger opponents. Goku's excited because he hasn't reached his peak. There's always someone out there that's better or stronger.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

I feel that I've grown to appreciate Battle of Gods (the movie) more as time has gone on. I liked it when I first saw it, but going on about a decade since the Dragon Ball revival in 2013, I feel BOG deserves more respect for actually attempting to move the franchise forward. It feels like the only one of these new movies to push the franchise into new creative territory and not fall back completely on old tropes, or new modern ones created by Super. On the opposite side of the spectrum as I've gotten older I like Resurrection F less and less. I was a teenager when it came to U.S. theaters, and I loved it simply because it was a fanservice movie and I enjoyed the service it gave me as a fan. However as a critical adult I just can't take any of it seriously for a lot of reasons, but I feel like I could gripe about that for hours and I don't want to get sidetracked.
I've also grown to appreciate just how wonderful Masako Nozawa is as Goku. (I got introduced to the series through the Kai dub as a 10 year old, so I guess that makes me part of the second generation of English speaking DB fans?) I never disliked her when I first heard her performance, but at the time I was still dub biased, since then I've fully transitioned to being sub only 99.9% of the time.
That's just a couple things I could think of.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

When I was a kid I wasn't the biggest fan of World's Strongest, or much of the pre-Freeza Dragon Ball material because I loved the spectacle of the flashy action and transformations. As an adult I love World's Strongest, as well as original Dragon Ball a lot more because I appreciate the amazing fight choreography and the more grounded approach to the action.

[JulieYBM]

I've grown less fond of the Main Buu arc over the years due in large part to the treatment of Videl and the lack of an interesting character arc for anyone in service of Toriyama trying to be unpredictable and not fall in line with any sort of 'cliché'. I've also just grown to be tired of early Dragon Ball in large part due to its awkward nature as being inappropriate for its target audience of kids while simultaneously not really working as being sexy or erotic, despite Toriyama's (or the greater franchise's) constantly falling back of 'sex jokes'.

In terms of positive turn arounds, I'm not even sure this qualifies, but when I finally saw the third Broli film a few years ago after putting it off for twenty years due to its reputation I actually thought it was a lot of fun. Ueda Yoshihiro's directing is a ton of fun, incorporating vibrant colors and color direction and, of course, very lovely background animation. I also moved from being apathetic about Dragon Ball Minus to really enjoying its depiction in Dragon Ball Super: Broli and seeing more potential in it if it had been handled as flashbacks, rather than a prologue segment at the beginning of the film. I really enjoy the depiction of Bardock as this sort of bored, world-weary soul searching for something new and different.

[jjgp1112]

I soured on the manga version of the King Piccolo arc due to it being a hollow retread of Tao Pai Pai, though I still love the raised stakes, just feel it could've been executed better.

I've come around on the Buu saga a bit...narratively it's still an utter clusterfuck but y'know...I actually appreciate the return to the weird Dr. Slump vibes, only with a greater lens on the more cynical, mean-spirited nature of a lot of Toriyama's humor . A lot of Buu's antics like healing a blind kid so he can fear him and then doing a nice thing by giving him milk...made from a human he zapped. Goku actually thinking it's a good idea to bargain his wife, his best friend, and his son's girlfriend to a God-version of Master Roshi because "No no no, it's okay because the fate of the universe depends on it!" It mainly works because of Gohan and Vegeta's repulsed reactions, but still.

And despite the sillier tone, it also has some of the more gruesome deaths, like the tournament staffer and of course the sniper. And Chi-Chi's death...the sheer audacity and callousness of turning a character we've seen since the beginning of the series into an egg and just stepping on it is again, darkly hilarious.

[MasenkoHA]

.

I've come around on the Buu saga a bit...narratively it's still an utter clusterfuck but y'know...I actually appreciate the return to the weird Dr. Slump vibes, only with a greater lens on the more cynical, mean-spirited nature of a lot of Toriyama's humor . A lot of Buu's antics like healing a blind kid so he can fear him and then doing a nice thing by giving him milk...made from a human he zapped. Goku actually thinking it's a good idea to bargain his wife, his best friend, and his son's girlfriend to a God-version of Master Roshi because "No no no, it's okay because the fate of the universe depends on it!" It mainly works because of Gohan and Vegeta's repulsed reactions, but still.

And despite the sillier tone, it also has some of the more gruesome deaths, like the tournament staffer and of course the sniper. And Chi-Chi's death...the sheer audacity and callousness of turning a character we've seen since the beginning of the series into an egg and just stepping on it is again, darkly hilarious.

Oh yeah, I remember reading Buu spoilers online in 2001/early 2002 and being in disbelief at everything I was reading. Goten and Trunks fuse into Gotenks and use techniques called Galactic Doughnut and Buu Buu volleyball?! Chi Chi gets turned into a egg and smashed by Buu? Almost everyone else gets turned in chocolate and eaten? Buu wipes out the entire planet? Goku and Vegeta fuse into Vegetto and then get turned into a coffee candy that kicks Buu's ass? It seemed so out of pocket and balls to the wall insane, especially when only accustomed to the Frieza, Garlic, and Cell sagas

[ABED]

Not that long ago I would've said that the Cell arc was unquestionably better than the Buu arc. The likely reason I would've given is the Buu arc is too comical to take seriously. I also would've said superheroes should be more serious. Now I see that was a juvenile way to view these sorts of things.

[capsulecorp]

Not that long ago I would've said that the Cell arc was unquestionably better than the Buu arc. The likely reason I would've given is the Buu arc is too comical to take seriously. I also would've said superheroes should be more serious. Now I see that was a juvenile way to view these sorts of things.

I'm sort of in the same boat. For the longest time I thought Buu was interesting but flawed, just a hodge-podge of random ideas that didn't fit together well. Then, I read the manga and damn, the story flows so much better without all the momentum-killing pacing issues of the anime. It even makes it easier to piece together the themes of the arc which, for my money, are among the most interesting in all of DB.

[jjgp1112]

Not that long ago I would've said that the Cell arc was unquestionably better than the Buu arc. The likely reason I would've given is the Buu arc is too comical to take seriously. I also would've said superheroes should be more serious. Now I see that was a juvenile way to view these sorts of things.

I'm sort of in the same boat. For the longest time I thought Buu was interesting but flawed, just a hodge-podge of random ideas that didn't fit together well. Then, I read the manga and damn, the story flows so much better without all the momentum-killing pacing issues of the anime. It even makes it easier to piece together the themes of the arc which, for my money, are among the most interesting in all of DB.

I'm actually the opposite: I find the Buu saga much better in the anime, as the rapid fire pacing of the manga only exacerbates the slapdash writing while the anime fleshes things out more.

[capsulecorp]

Not that long ago I would've said that the Cell arc was unquestionably better than the Buu arc. The likely reason I would've given is the Buu arc is too comical to take seriously. I also would've said superheroes should be more serious. Now I see that was a juvenile way to view these sorts of things.

I'm sort of in the same boat. For the longest time I thought Buu was interesting but flawed, just a hodge-podge of random ideas that didn't fit together well. Then, I read the manga and damn, the story flows so much better without all the momentum-killing pacing issues of the anime. It even makes it easier to piece together the themes of the arc which, for my money, are among the most interesting in all of DB.

I'm actually the opposite: I find the Buu saga much better in the anime, as the rapid fire pacing of the manga only exacerbates the slapdash writing while the anime fleshes things out more.

See, I don't think the writing is actually slapdash - its wild, but its (mostly, imo) deliberate.

[MasenkoHA]

Not that long ago I would've said that the Cell arc was unquestionably better than the Buu arc. The likely reason I would've given is the Buu arc is too comical to take seriously. I also would've said superheroes should be more serious. Now I see that was a juvenile way to view these sorts of things.

I'm sort of in the same boat. For the longest time I thought Buu was interesting but flawed, just a hodge-podge of random ideas that didn't fit together well. Then, I read the manga and damn, the story flows so much better without all the momentum-killing pacing issues of the anime. It even makes it easier to piece together the themes of the arc which, for my money, are among the most interesting in all of DB.

The only theme I really picked up in the Buu saga was

"Let's leave things to the younger generation"

*pause*

Nevermind, the younger generation can't do shit. Time to clean house

[CashmanX]

Not that long ago I would've said that the Cell arc was unquestionably better than the Buu arc. The likely reason I would've given is the Buu arc is too comical to take seriously. I also would've said superheroes should be more serious. Now I see that was a juvenile way to view these sorts of things.

I'm sort of in the same boat. For the longest time I thought Buu was interesting but flawed, just a hodge-podge of random ideas that didn't fit together well. Then, I read the manga and damn, the story flows so much better without all the momentum-killing pacing issues of the anime. It even makes it easier to piece together the themes of the arc which, for my money, are among the most interesting in all of DB.

Yeah, the Buu arc over the years has shot up to the top of my list of favorite arcs due to the absolutely hilariously insane way its written. This Twitter thread really hammers home the reason why I love this arc so much: https://twitter.com/JonathanLack/status ... 8695849984

The above is also why I'm fond of the modern Toriyama DB even though the Anime/Manga drop the ball a lot of times. There's always some sort of hilariously cynical theme or hook at the end much in the same way he's always written his manga from the 80s/90s:

-SSG Goku not winning through strength, but essentially tiring out a house cat with vast cosmic powers

-Freeza's hilariously low stakes revival

-Champa and Beerus being snubbed by Goku/Hit and Beerus using the Super DB to give Champa what he wanted in the end anyway

-Future Trunks continuing to get kicked in the teeth before Goku Mike Nelson's that entire timeline(and afterlife!) by carelessly summoning a Zeno who doesn't even know who he is

-A Goku/Freeza teamup being integral to the defeat of a Hero antagonist while #17, the guy with the least amount of stake in the game makes the one wish that saves everyone Zeno erasing universe 7 as well

-Broly being a hero antagonist and Goku/Vegeta being villain protagonists while Freeza takes an hour long beating while previously thinking he'd never have to get his hands dirty

-Magenta being wrong genre savvy throughout the film while Pan and Piccolo fake stakes to emotionally blackmail Gohan into getting stronger

[TheGreatness25]

...Drag-on Ball Z...

Hah! That's funny.

My view on the manga changed. When I was younger, I read some of the manga online and was of the opinion that the anime was better because of the voices and the music and the action, etc. And after I collected all of the Funimation and Dragon Box DVDs around 2013, I decided there was "nothing left" except the manga. I bought the VizBigs and started reading through them, finding myself having a great experience. I breezed through the story so quickly instead of having to dedicate 20 minutes for 444 episodes. I could also pretty much cast whoever I wanted in the roles with whichever delivery and any music. I will admit that I kind of would do one-second glances at the action-only panels, not really taking in enough to imagine what's happening in the fight, but that's okay.

My opinion of the Funimation dub also changed. As a kid who was loyal to the brand, I thought--or convinced myself--that I actually enjoyed the Funimation dub (especially of Z). Then, I didn't see it for a long time and wanted to show my girlfriend the thing I loved so much. Of course, it had to be the Z dub because let's face it, there's no way that someone who already had little interest in seeing it was going to want to watch the Japanese version, right? I went through several clips: Goku sacrificing himself with Cell, Vegeta sacrificing himself with Boo, and a few others. Holy hell. I legitimately couldn't believe what I was listening to. It just didn't sound good--the music, the forced voice acting, the whole feel of it. I could listen to the Z dub with no problem, but I would have to listen to it as the wacky thing from my childhood rather than a serious take on DBZ. Oddly enough, I didn't have the same feeling when we watched the Funimation Dragon Ball dub.

[PurestEvil]

My opinion on the Pilaf saga has soured a little due to reasons constantly brought up in this forum.

I used to think Majin Vegeta was cool for a short while, but then I realized he was just a bitch with a temper.

At first, I was annoyed as hell at Vegeta in the Cell saga, but then I came to accept his actions as a part of his character arc. Also, it WAS fun to see his smug ass get wiped out by Perfect Cell.

[Majin Buu]

As a fan that's always loved the Buu arc and always argued for its merits, it feels good to see so many "I've turned around on it" sentiments in this thread.

As for me, DBZ Movie 4. I used to think it was the worst of the Z movies like most fans, but as I got older, I realized there wasn't really anything particularly bad about it compared to the other not-so-good Z movies ("it's a rip-off of the Piccolo Daimao arc"- yeah, most of the movies are retreads of canon storylines). It also has some things going for it: The animation looks good, I like that the action takes place in a city, and the fake Super Saiyan form, while a blatant attempt to capitalize on hype, is at least a neat visual (plus I love it whenever normal Goku is depicted with Super Saiyan-esque hair).

Also, Dragon Ball GT. Even before I got around to watching Dragon Ball Super, everything I had heard about it made me appreciate GT more than I had in the past; with my perspective on it shifting from "it's bad" to "it's very flawed but it does have its moments". That hasn't changed now that I've actually watched Super: Both fall short as continuations and while I'll acknowledge that Super does some things better than GT, I'll take GT over Super any day. GT at least feels likes it fits with the original anime, Super doesn't feel like it fits with either the manga or the original anime, but rather some similar but different version of Dragon Ball that we never saw.

[Xeogran]

I've always liked GT, so my view on it hasn't changed after watching Super (which I also enjoyed; besides some retcons it did)

Now, what my opinion has changed on is the SDBH anime. I disliked it back in it's first arc where everyone fought Cumber because the fights were so sluggish and boring. It's gotten much better now, ever since Hearts appeared. He's an interesting character I hope to see more of, no wonder they quickly brought him back from the dead

[JulieYBM]

Not that long ago I would've said that the Cell arc was unquestionably better than the Buu arc. The likely reason I would've given is the Buu arc is too comical to take seriously. I also would've said superheroes should be more serious. Now I see that was a juvenile way to view these sorts of things.

I'm sort of in the same boat. For the longest time I thought Buu was interesting but flawed, just a hodge-podge of random ideas that didn't fit together well. Then, I read the manga and damn, the story flows so much better without all the momentum-killing pacing issues of the anime. It even makes it easier to piece together the themes of the arc which, for my money, are among the most interesting in all of DB.

Yeah, the Buu arc over the years has shot up to the top of my list of favorite arcs due to the absolutely hilariously insane way its written. This Twitter thread really hammers home the reason why I love this arc so much: https://twitter.com/JonathanLack/status ... 8695849984

The above is also why I'm fond of the modern Toriyama DB even though the Anime/Manga drop the ball a lot of times. There's always some sort of hilariously cynical theme or hook at the end much in the same way he's always written his manga from the 80s/90s:

-SSG Goku not winning through strength, but essentially tiring out a house cat with vast cosmic powers

-Freeza's hilariously low stakes revival

-Champa and Beerus being snubbed by Goku/Hit and Beerus using the Super DB to give Champa what he wanted in the end anyway

-Future Trunks continuing to get kicked in the teeth before Goku Mike Nelson's that entire timeline(and afterlife!) by carelessly summoning a Zeno who doesn't even know who he is

-A Goku/Freeza teamup being integral to the defeat of a Hero antagonist while #17, the guy with the least amount of stake in the game makes the one wish that saves everyone Zeno erasing universe 7 as well

-Broly being a hero antagonist and Goku/Vegeta being villain protagonists while Freeza takes an hour long beating while previously thinking he'd never have to get his hands dirty

-Magenta being wrong genre savvy throughout the film while Pan and Piccolo fake stakes to emotionally blackmail Gohan into getting stronger

These summaries are actually a really smart way of putting it. Dragon Ball Super is now parodying Dragon Ball.

[jjgp1112]

Not that long ago I would've said that the Cell arc was unquestionably better than the Buu arc. The likely reason I would've given is the Buu arc is too comical to take seriously. I also would've said superheroes should be more serious. Now I see that was a juvenile way to view these sorts of things.

I'm sort of in the same boat. For the longest time I thought Buu was interesting but flawed, just a hodge-podge of random ideas that didn't fit together well. Then, I read the manga and damn, the story flows so much better without all the momentum-killing pacing issues of the anime. It even makes it easier to piece together the themes of the arc which, for my money, are among the most interesting in all of DB.

Yeah, the Buu arc over the years has shot up to the top of my list of favorite arcs due to the absolutely hilariously insane way its written. This Twitter thread really hammers home the reason why I love this arc so much: https://twitter.com/JonathanLack/status ... 8695849984

The above is also why I'm fond of the modern Toriyama DB even though the Anime/Manga drop the ball a lot of times. There's always some sort of hilariously cynical theme or hook at the end much in the same way he's always written his manga from the 80s/90s:

-SSG Goku not winning through strength, but essentially tiring out a house cat with vast cosmic powers

-Freeza's hilariously low stakes revival

-Champa and Beerus being snubbed by Goku/Hit and Beerus using the Super DB to give Champa what he wanted in the end anyway

-Future Trunks continuing to get kicked in the teeth before Goku Mike Nelson's that entire timeline(and afterlife!) by carelessly summoning a Zeno who doesn't even know who he is

-A Goku/Freeza teamup being integral to the defeat of a Hero antagonist while #17, the guy with the least amount of stake in the game makes the one wish that saves everyone Zeno erasing universe 7 as well

-Broly being a hero antagonist and Goku/Vegeta being villain protagonists while Freeza takes an hour long beating while previously thinking he'd never have to get his hands dirty

-Magenta being wrong genre savvy throughout the film while Pan and Piccolo fake stakes to emotionally blackmail Gohan into getting stronger

I think so many issues with Dragon Ball's asspull-y nature would be resolved by reading Toriyama's other work and then contextualizing that in a more "serious" long body of work.

Toriyama's comedy style is the very definition of "irreverent." Taking the norms, even the most sacred ones, and shoving a piece of poo on a stick in its face. Some dumbass character just upstages everything while having no clue how or why they did, and not grasping the significance either.

That's really why Goku's the perfect protagonist for Dragon Ball, because he's so aloof and disconnected from everything that he just does whatever he wants. "The emptier your head is, the easier it is to fill with dreams" and all that shit. A guy like Gohan, who's anxious and intentional with everything he does, could never lead a Toriyama story unless everything went horribly wrong for him and we're laughing at his misery.

So even as Dragon Ball goes from lampooning Kung-Fu to playing it straight, that "Nothing's scared, anything can be completely undemined at a moment's notice" principle remains.

Raditz, the guy who's beating up on our hero AND the last villain? The whimpy toddler takes him out.

Oh, and he's the equivalent to these little gremlins the other Saiyans grow out the ground.

And Frieza, the guy we just spent the last 70 episodes on? Comes back as a tin can and gets completely destroyed by some guy we just met who can become a Super Saiyan, too.

And speaking of Super Saiyan, remember how Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan had to bust their asses and undergo intensely negative emotions in order to pull it off? Goten and Trunks can just do it. They don't even know what it's called. Hell, Goten doesn't even know how to fly and he can do it.

Dragon Ball respects nothing. I'd even go as far as to say this is why you see the wretched "Abridged is better than the original!" take, because it makes the underlying silliness more obvious.

[90sDBZ]

I enjoyed Super on my initial watch, but I'm finding it a chore to get through it a 2nd time. I'm not sure what it is, but I found the retellings much more boring this time, and have now lost the motivation to continue. I know it gets better eventually, it's just such a drag getting to that point.

Honestly I think the constant humour just undermines any tension in the story. The thing with everyone being afraid of Beerus and the constant obsession with food is played out to the point of being tedious.

I'm all for comedy when it feels natural and balances out the serious stuff. I actually love the Buu saga, because the comedy is genuinely funny while never completely exclipsing the tension. Buu always feels like a genuine threat, and manages to be both funny and terrifying at the same time.

I used to prefer Super to GT, but now I'm not so sure. I enjoyed my recent GT rewatch quite a bit despite having seen it about 8 times.