Deep Thoughts: The Namek Saga (Ocean Dub)

[ABED]

The World's Strongest (Ocean Dub)
I don't have much to say about the dub itself beyond it being a quality dub. I guess the only thing I have is a few stray thoughts like why this movie was released after the third movie? Another random thought I had was how odd Chichi's line delivery was when she tells Goku, "You don't know anything about the real world. If he doesn't get a good education, he won't have a chance out there." It's played completely straight, as though this is a legitimate complaint. The entire point is Chichi is a Tiger Mom. Wow, I really don't have anything else to say about it, except maybe the rhetorical, would it have been so hard for FUNimation to have used this as the template for their in-house dub? Season 3 was an F, but if everything else stayed the same, but they kept the music and accurately adapted their scripts, It could've been as high as a C-.

The Namek Saga (Ocean Dub)
Much like the review of Movie 2, I don't have a lot to add about this part of the series as I already reviewed the episodes and most of my opinions about season 1 carry over to season 2. The biggest thing I can think of off the top of my head that sticks out is that with the exception of the first few episodes, by and large, there were far fewer edits this season. Many of the episodes line up pretty well with the originals. Any edits aren't as obvious. One moment that I'm still surprised was kept was Vegeta's vicious knee to Gohan's stomach. I guess hitting a child is fine as long as they are a warrior.

Voice wise, there were two significant casting choices, Pauline Newstone was cast as Freeza, and Peter Kelamis took over the voice of Goku. Newstone was not a good choice for Freeza, at all. Freeza went from a upper crust, erudite, faux polite monarch to being a feminine lizard sounding creature. It feels like they cast Freeza based solely on design and didn't care to research the character any further. Make no mistake, Newstone is a very talented actress and is quite good as that version of Freeza, but it's not really Freeza. She has this unique and very creepy voice that can't be imitated as we saw with Linda Young. Then there's Kelamis. You all know my thoughts. I don't think he's good at all. He has some good screams, but the cadence is off-putting and I'm glad he wasn't around for long. I know people will call BS, but I still feel season 3 Schemmel was a step up. That's how much Kelamis's performance bothers me. I didn't like it in 97, and I don't like it over 25 years later.

Before I forget, it's in this arc we get the amazing "You won't escape… MY WRATH!" is amazing. It's so over the top but it works.

The final few episodes of season 2 were half of the Ginyu Force "saga", although, by FUNi's logic, it's part of the Namek Saga. What's really interesting was the choice of where to end it. I can't imagine this was an artistic choice. It ends in the middle of an episode, and there was some moving of scenes around. It doesn't make any sense to end it in the middle of the fight against Bahta and Jheese. Episode 66 where Goku has defeated Reacoom and Vegeta wonders if Goku is a Super Saiyan is a more logical endpoint. Season 1 had 26 episodes, and not counting movie three that were broken into 3 "episodes", season 2 was 27 episodes. I'm guessing this is the reason for the odd ending. It's not an ending and it's not a great cliffhanger. It feels like they just stopped. Did they plan on getting to the end of the Ginyu Force arc but miscount? I can't figure out the logic.

Random Thoughts:
The commercials for Dragon Ball during season 2 contained footage from mostly the first few episodes, so there was a lot of Fake Namek in those advertisements.
I forgot to mention in the review that I've always dug the choice to hide in the cave and set up a capsule house. I'd feel safe and cozy, as much as I could with the emperor of the galaxy nearby.
I mentioned last time that I dig the title card animation that FUNi added, but they got even better this season. There's a rope that wraps itself around the title of "Time Tricks and Body Binds". One that I find really odd is "Arrival of the Ginyu Force". It shows particles gathering above the planet like Goku gathering energy for the Genki Dama.
My friend and I watched "Super Saiyan?!" a few times. Two lines in particular got him "I don't know about you guys, but my leg's starting to cramp." And "Did someone get the number of that bus?" He really loved Reacoom.

Home Video:
I got the original release of the DVDs, which weren't normal DVD cases, nor those snap cases (which I never got why anyone had any issue with them), I got the one that had the cardboard sleeve with the CD case inside.
I adore the cover art. Though, there are some odd choices like Vegeta wearing the armor from the fight against Freeza or pictures of Goku as a Super Saiyan.

The Tree of Might (Ocean dub)
The article "The" is in the title. I still wonder why the redub excised it.
My first exposure to movie 3 was the TV version that broke it into episodes. I didn't know much about the Freeza arc beyond the summaries I read online, so I was really confused when tuned into DBZ and all of a sudden, Goku and Gohan were on Earth. What the hell did I miss? It was then that I found out about the DBZ movies and I hadn't missed anything. It was an odd choice on FUNi's part. I can't even remember, did they air it after the last episode of the season or did they air it during the middle of the season? Did they clarify it to the audience that it was a movie and I just missed that message?

For opinions on the adaptation, see movies 1 and 2. The only other point I have to add is the voice of Tullece/Turles is one of my favorite bits of Ocean dub casting. Is it Ward Perry? If I remember correctly, he's also responsible for the scripts, but were they the movie scripts? Either way, I really like his performance here. I don't know why, I thought he'd make a great Cell. Not so sure now, but I thought that then, just based on Cell's final form design.

Home Video:
I got the original release of the DVDs, which weren't normal DVD cases, nor those snap cases (which I never got why anyone had any issue with them), I got the one that had the cardboard sleeve with the CD case inside.

[MasenkoHA]

The World's Strongest (Ocean Dub)
I don't have much to say about the dub itself beyond it being a quality dub. I guess the only thing I have is a few stray thoughts like why this movie was released after the third movie?

Maybe Pioneer wanted to get their version of Tree of Might out while the Funi tv version was still somewhat fresh on everyone's minds?

. One moment that I'm still surprised was kept was Vegeta's vicious knee to Gohan's stomach. I guess hitting a child is fine as long as they are a warrior.

I really enjoyed Vegeta telling Gohan they're like brothers just for the punchline of kneeing him in the stomach and saying "That's for holding out on me little brother"

Voice wise, there were two significant casting choices, Pauline Newstone was cast as Freeza, and Peter Kelamis took over the voice of Goku. Newstone was not a good choice for Freeza, at all. Freeza went from a upper crust, erudite, faux polite monarch to being a feminine lizard sounding creature. It feels like they cast Freeza based solely on design and didn't care to research the character any further. Make no mistake, Newstone is a very talented actress and is quite good as that version of Freeza, but it's not really Freeza. She has this unique and very creepy voice that can't be imitated as we saw with Linda Young. Then there's Kelamis. You all know my thoughts. I don't think he's good at all. He has some good screams, but the cadence is off-putting and I'm glad he wasn't around for long. I know people will call BS, but I still feel season 3 Schemmel was a step up. That's how much Kelamis's performance bothers me. I didn't like it in 97, and I don't like it over 25 years later.

Agreed 100 percent on Newstone. It's clear Barry Watson just got a picture of him in his first form and made a casting decision based on that. Newstone is great as that interpretation of Frieza. But it ain't Freeza.

Chris Psaros of DBZU also thought Sean Schemmel was an upgrade from Peter Kelamis from day one so you're not alone there. Personally I found Schemmel's attempts to recreate Kelamis weird inflections really awkward and I was glad to see he dropped it right around the time Goku became Super Saiyan.

Before I forget, it's in this arc we get the amazing "You won't escape… MY WRATH!" is amazing. It's so over the top but it works.

I'd argue far more iconic than the Over 9000! line

The final few episodes of season 2 were half of the Ginyu Force "saga", although, by FUNi's logic, it's part of the Namek Saga. What's really interesting was the choice of where to end it. I can't imagine this was an artistic choice. It ends in the middle of an episode, and there was some moving of scenes around. It doesn't make any sense to end it in the middle of the fight against Bahta and Jheese. Episode 66 where Goku has defeated Reacoom and Vegeta wonders if Goku is a Super Saiyan is a more logical endpoint

Iirc episode 53 of the original dub did end where Japanese episods 66 ended, its just that the first 8 minutes or so of episode 67 was shifted before that. So there's a weird bit where original dub episode 53 ends where Japanese episode 66 ends and original dub episode 54 begins with the second half of Japanese episode 67 from the footage they hadn't used yet. I dunno Funimation made a lot of confusing and bizare choices since day 1.

. Season 1 had 26 episodes, and not counting movie three that were broken into 3 "episodes", season 2 was 27 episodes. I'm guessing this is the reason for the odd ending. It's not an ending and it's not a great cliffhanger. It feels like they just stopped. Did they plan on getting to the end of the Ginyu Force arc but miscount? I can't figure out the logic.

If they hadn't wasted 3 episodes of their season order on Tree of Might they probably could have wittled away just a bit more to finish season 2 at the end of the Ginyu arc.

I adore the cover art. Though, there are some odd choices like Vegeta wearing the armor from the fight against Freeza or pictures of Goku as a Super Saiyan.

Sadly the last time we'll see effort put into DBZ cover art in the U.S until 2005.

For opinions on the adaptation, see movies 1 and 2. The only other point I have to add is the voice of Tullece/Turles is one of my favorite bits of Ocean dub casting. Is it Ward Perry? If I remember correctly, he's also responsible for the scripts, but were they the movie scripts? Either way, I really like his performance here. I don't know why, I thought he'd make a great Cell. Not so sure now, but I thought that then, just based on Cell's final form design.

Yep Ward Perry wrote all 3 scripts for the movie version. Funimation never credited specific writers back then so the tv version just list the same generic writing staff credit that they had for the entire second season.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

My feelings on the Namek saga, are much the same as the Saiyan saga that preceded it in Funimation's original dub. I loved them both as a kid, and watched them religiously on Cartoon Network's old marathons, as an adult I can see a lot of the flaws with the editing, altered characterizations, replaced musical score and so on, but the performances were really good regardless of any faithfulness or lack thereof to how Akira Toriyama originally wrote them.

As has been Pauline Newstome was great for what she had to do, but the performance wouldn't have worked for an accurate portrayal of Freeza's character. I think Kelamis is fine in this arc, no better or worse than Corlette, but both were better than Schemmel when he started off as they had experience on their sides. Schemmel has arguably surpassed them both, but its possible if they had time to grow into the character they could have put in as good or even better performances. Drummond is on fire in this arc, I'll agree "You won't escape my wrath" was his high point for Vegeta, even moreso than "Over 9,000".

I can't remember the episode number, it was on the Rebirth DVD, but when Vegeta was in the rejuvenation chamber he calls Goku by his Earth name. While social media can be quite toxic in a respect we are lucky to have it nowadays, as when Vegeta uses the name "Goku" in Funimation's dub of the Universe 6 arc in Super during its broadcast on Toonami it was corrected for the home release because fans pointed it out. Such errors couldn't be corrected back when the Namek arc first aired because it wasn't as easy for fans to get their voices out there.

Something I'd love to find out, because I'm trying to compile all the premier dates is when these episodes first aired on Cartoon Network UK. All I remember is it was in May or June of 2000 after a short break following the Saiyan saga. Another fun fact is that in the UK and Ireland the Toonami block was introduced because of Dragon Ball Z's massive success, not the other way around like in the US. We got our block in September of that year once the Saiyan and Namek sagas were rerun a few times. This saga was also slightly longer for us as we jumped straight from episode 53 to 54 with no break in between and the next break came after episode 63.

Another interesting edit for Funimation's original dub of the Namek arc was the extent to which they went to cover up dying, I'd argue even moreso than the Saiyan arc. Obviously we still hear "next dimension", but there's also scenese like when Gohan returned to the village, which in the Japanese and uncut dubs was full of dead bodies, but in the dub they were digitally painted over to make it look like a ghost town instead, and of course one of the most devastating scenes being the death of Dende's brother Cargo being omitted. Bulma even tells Dende she's sure his family is ok.

Karl Willems directed some of this season, we can thank him for the movie dubs, as well as Ward Perry for the scripts, which were masterfully adapted from Rika Takahashi's subtitles on the Pioneer DVDs.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

It seems they went to such absurd lengths with the death cover ups to an even greater degree than edited Saiyan arc was beyond next/another dimension, including but not limited to painting out dead Namekians, cutting out scenes of mass graves and adding breathing noises to the Namekians' (and others') corpses to make it look like they were still alive. Um no, no they weren't.

Plus of course cutting out Cargo's death, by making it seem like Dodoria was actually firing at the Elder but missing and removing the shot of the blast hitting Dende's brother.

[MasenkoHA]

It seems they went to such absurd lengths with the death cover ups to an even greater degree than edited Saiyan arc was beyond next/another dimension, including but not limited to painting out dead Namekians, cutting out scenes of mass graves and adding breathing noises to the Namekians' (and others') corpses to make it look like they were still alive. Um no, no they weren't.

Plus of course cutting out Cargo's death, by making it seem like Dodoria was actually firing at the Elder but missing and removing the shot of the blast hitting Dende's brother.

The general rule of thumb for these two seasons seem to be

1. Civilians are never allowed to die and must always either have just escaped or just be really hurt

2. Combatants can die if there's no feasible way to write around their deaths but it must always be referred to as going to the next dimension.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

It seems they went to such absurd lengths with the death cover ups to an even greater degree than edited Saiyan arc was beyond next/another dimension, including but not limited to painting out dead Namekians, cutting out scenes of mass graves and adding breathing noises to the Namekians' (and others') corpses to make it look like they were still alive. Um no, no they weren't.

Plus of course cutting out Cargo's death, by making it seem like Dodoria was actually firing at the Elder but missing and removing the shot of the blast hitting Dende's brother.

The general rule of thumb for these two seasons seem to be

1. Civilians are never allowed to die and must always either have just escaped or just be really hurt

2. Combatants can die if there's no feasible way to write around their deaths but it must always be referred to as going to the next dimension.

That, or having such stupid lines to emphasize it as "Too bad it's Sunday, those buildings would be full tomorrow" or "Look, i can see their parachutes"

[TheGreatness25]

It seems they went to such absurd lengths with the death cover ups to an even greater degree than edited Saiyan arc was beyond next/another dimension, including but not limited to painting out dead Namekians, cutting out scenes of mass graves and adding breathing noises to the Namekians' (and others') corpses to make it look like they were still alive. Um no, no they weren't.

Plus of course cutting out Cargo's death, by making it seem like Dodoria was actually firing at the Elder but missing and removing the shot of the blast hitting Dende's brother.

The general rule of thumb for these two seasons seem to be

1. Civilians are never allowed to die and must always either have just escaped or just be really hurt

2. Combatants can die if there's no feasible way to write around their deaths but it must always be referred to as going to the next dimension.

The book above detailed the mandates and notes that the crew received when working on Batman: The Animated Series (around the same time that this version of DBZ was being made). Included in the things that Fox was not going to tolerate on their programming was violent death, violence against children, references to drugs/tobacco/alcohol, and anything sexy. So, if this was the standard mandate from TV networks at the time, I totally understand why Funimation chose to edit the series the way they did. I mean, I feel like the original Dragon Ball wouldn't survive in that environment and maybe that's just as good a reason as to why they jumped to Z after only 13 episodes as wanting to be more action-packed.

Funimation was putting the series out in syndication and had to worry about satisfying many masters. For more context, Cartoon Network--the first all-cartoon channel--came out only a couple of years before that and mostly aired old Hanna Barbera cartoons that Turner bought the rights to. It wouldn't be reasonable to believe that Turner would expand past the library that they owned and certainly nobody could foresee them relaxing standards and practices that allowed DBZ "season 3" to be as uncut as it was.

Of course, this doesn't explain the replacement score or made-up lines about Goku's father being a brilliant scientist and whatnot--it just paints a picture of why things were so sanitized. Also, to be fair, if the characters believed in spirituality and souls passing through (which they obviously did), is using a phrase like "the next dimension" really all that inaccurate? Sounds like a perfectly reasonable descriptor of death from their standpoint. I think it was a pretty smart workaround. And the Home for Infinite Losers... I mean... they're not wrong? Slightly strange wording with some reaching, but the message is there: it's infinite, it's for "losers" aka bad people and that's where they'll live from then on lol I'm way more irked by the made up dialog than that. I find these types of edits to be the equivalent of saying "darn" over "damn." Of course pretending like characters are still alive when they're not or pretending that Tien's arm will grow back was worse, but in the end, those things weren't really consequential and didn't play a part in the story. I don't think anyone thought about how the farmer was alive after Raditz tossed a bullet at him.

Anyway, onto the continuation of my favorite English dub. Of course I love pretty much everything about this dub. I did get salty when Kelamis replaced Corlett. I know that they claim that Kelamis was chosen because he sounds like Corlett, but I don't think he does at all. If 10-year-old me could spot the difference instantly, then they didn't sound alike.

I felt that Goku instantly got more annoying-sounding in his laughs and general loud vocalizationa. But, I grew to appreciate that if Nozawa's performance was adapted, Kelamis is probably the closest to sounding like her. I don't think that Kelamis heard Nozawa's Goku and it was all just a happy coincidence, but it's still a pretty cool thing.

Otherwise, I generally enjoyed the dub and won't go gushing over it too much. I'll just say that I wish the Ocean Group got to do the series totally uncut with good directing. I guess that's why there's as much interest in unearthing the Ocean Kai dub as there is, even though it isn't the same as Z (and has recasting).

I generally welcome different versions of the same thing and don't mind that the Ocean dub is this weird alternate version, but I feel sad that it is easily dismissible because of how heavily it was edited (and then plagued by poor production). I feel like a lot of people are quick to just say that it's not the real thing when comparing it to Funimation's in-house dub... which is also not the real thing. I see a lot of comparisons between the Ocean dub and Kai's dub, which isn't fair at all. If 2009 Chris Sabat directed the Ocean cast, I have full confidence that they'd produce an incredibly high quality dub. I already think they did--it's just the nature of the beast is that this dub will never be completed, so to speak. There will never be a time when a 1:1 comparison could be done with Funimation's in-house dub. The Ocean dub is cut off at the knees because if you compare the Saiyan/Namek arcs, Funimation has the benefit of experience, using more mature language, and the Japanese score (nobody watches with the Menza score). If comparing anything since, the Ocean/Westwood dub just suffered from bad production.

Anyway, the first two arcs done by Ocean are my favorite version of dubbed Z (including Kai). Just my personal take.

[MasenkoHA]

[

Of course, this doesn't explain the replacement score or made-up lines about Goku's father being a brilliant scientist and whatnot--it just paints a picture of why things were so sanitized. Also, to be fair, if the characters believed in spirituality and souls passing through (which they obviously did), is using a phrase like "the next dimension" really all that inaccurate? Sounds like a perfectly reasonable descriptor of death from their standpoint. I think it was a pretty smart workaround.

Like I said "next dimension" isn't that bad and it was still clear Goku and everyone else who "went to the next dimension" was killed. Otherworld just would have been a way better workaround.

And the Home for Infinite Losers... I mean... they're not wrong? Slightly strange wording with some reaching, but the message is there: it's infinite, it's for "losers" aka bad people and that's where they'll live from then on lol I'm way more irked by the made up dialog than that. I find these types of edits to be the equivalent of saying "darn" over "damn." Of course pretending like characters are still alive when they're not or pretending that Tien's arm will grow back was worse, but in the end, those things weren't really consequential and didn't play a part in the story. I don't think anyone thought about how the farmer was alive after Raditz tossed a bullet at him.

The uncut redub of the Saiyan saga just went with "underworld" and "down below" which is absolutely silly for something that has a PG rating and is being presented as edgy but it does make me wonder if that's what Funimation had in their back pocket since 1996 and just changed to Home For Infinite Losers when they saw the footage and realized they had to do something about Goz and Mez's shirts. Really they should have either just trashed the episode entirely or completely removed hell from their shirts and just stuck with calling it the underworld for the edited dub.

I don't think that Kelamis heard Nozawa's Goku and it was all just a happy coincidence, but it's still a pretty cool thing.

He has. He made a comment he doesn't think he'd ever be able to get his voice that high if he wanted to have children.

, Funimation has the benefit of experience, using more mature language, and the Japanese score (nobody watches with the Menza score). If comparing anything since, the Ocean/Westwood dub just suffered from bad production.

Benefit of the Japanese score and more mature language (but only during Namek, the in-house Funi Saiyan saga dub is so avoidant of swearing they can't even directly reference hell when necessary).

But honestly, having the Texas cast saying nearly the exact same dialog the Vancouver cast said in 1996-1997 just made it more apparent how much more talented the Vancouver cast was. The Texas cast performance in those episodes are mostly okay but they're definitely inferior.

[ABED]

Those weren't the standards at the time, they were the standards of Fox Kids, which appear to be more stringent than Kids WB. Timm and Dini have said there were difference in what the different networks would and wouldn't allow. Then there's cable which has even looser standards.

[MasenkoHA]

Those weren't the standards at the time, they were the standards of Fox Kids, which appear to be more stringent than Kids WB.

Indeed, I'm pretty sure I remember Bruce Timm or someone on staff saying Fox Kids gave them pages of stuff they weren't allowed to do, KidsWB gave them a paragraph.

The intense restrictions Funimation dealt with were less standards of the time and more Saban being overtly cautious after the backlash Mighty Morphin Power Rangers received.

[TheGreatness25]

Those weren't the standards at the time, they were the standards of Fox Kids, which appear to be more stringent than Kids WB.

Indeed, I'm pretty sure I remember Bruce Timm or someone on staff saying Fox Kids gave them pages of stuff they weren't allowed to do, KidsWB gave them a paragraph.

The intense restrictions Funimation dealt with were less standards of the time and more Saban being overtly cautious after the backlash Mighty Morphin Power Rangers received.

But again, they are in syndication. Wouldn't it be reasonable to scrub themselves down to be able to plug themselves into any market (including ones with those restrictions)? Also, Saban has can dealing with Fox Kids for Power Rangers. Maybe they wanted to secure a Fox Kids deal.

Anyway, this is all just speculation lol However, I would also like to point out that on the Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker commentary, they talked about laser weapons and "abandoned buildings" being destroyed and Batman Beyond was on Kids WB, not Fox Kids. So, it seems like Kids WB also had similar standards as Fox Kids.

[90sDBZ]

I always thought "Next Dimension" worked well for what it was. Whenever Vegeta says he's sending someone there, it comes across as a "I'm gonna pound you into the next century" kind of threat that you hear a lot in movies.

Speaking of Vegeta, it's interesting hearing Drummond voicing him as he transitions to anti-hero. At this point he still nails the over the top stuff, but also does a good job with Vegeta's calmer strategic side.

The debate often comes up if he still fit Vegeta after he began to change. Personally I think he was one of the few who still turned in a decent performance in the Westwood dub. It's not that he doesn't fit Vegeta anymore. It's just that he did such a great job at making Vegeta feel unhinged early on that his later performance feels slightly undewhelming by comparison.

[WittyUsername]

Those weren't the standards at the time, they were the standards of Fox Kids, which appear to be more stringent than Kids WB.

Indeed, I'm pretty sure I remember Bruce Timm or someone on staff saying Fox Kids gave them pages of stuff they weren't allowed to do, KidsWB gave them a paragraph.

The intense restrictions Funimation dealt with were less standards of the time and more Saban being overtly cautious after the backlash Mighty Morphin Power Rangers received.

But again, they are in syndication. Wouldn't it be reasonable to scrub themselves down to be able to plug themselves into any market (including ones with those restrictions)? Also, Saban has can dealing with Fox Kids for Power Rangers. Maybe they wanted to secure a Fox Kids deal.

Anyway, this is all just speculation lol However, I would also like to point out that on the Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker commentary, they talked about laser weapons and "abandoned buildings" being destroyed and Batman Beyond was on Kids WB, not Fox Kids. So, it seems like Kids WB also had similar standards as Fox Kids.

Kids WB is also where the 4Kids dub of Yu-GI-Oh, aired, and that was still notoriously subject to censorship, to varying degrees of silliness. Broadcast television in general seemed to be just a bit more strict than the stuff you saw on stations like Cartoon Network.

[MasenkoHA]

The debate often comes up if he still fit Vegeta after he began to change. Personally I think he was one of the few who still turned in a decent performance in the Westwood dub. It's not that he doesn't fit Vegeta anymore. It's just that he did such a great job at making Vegeta feel unhinged early on that his later performance feels slightly undewhelming by comparison.

I just want to point out Sabat was doing a (bad) Brian Drummond impression in the original season 3 and even in the Cell saga (which he didn't redub) when he was starting to personalize the role it still felt more Drummond than the eventual voice that Sabat settled on by GT

I just don't see how people think Drummond only worked for season 1 and 2 and then Sabat "conveniently" took over the right time. Not saying you're arguing that, just that I don't get the argument when I see it.

[Super Sonic]

Kids WB is also where the 4Kids dub of Yu-GI-Oh, aired, and that was still notoriously subject to censorship, to varying degrees of silliness. Broadcast television in general seemed to be just a bit more strict than the stuff you saw on stations like Cartoon Network.

Also I think their standards had changed over time. That arc on Yu-Gi-Oh with the "magic disc that will steal your soul when it touches you" would've remained a buzzsaw on Batman and Superman. Heck, Dan Turpin's shocking death was allowed.

Speaking of CN, their standards changed over time as well with how when the airings of "Dead Zone" and "The World's Strongest" they took out the instances of "damn" and "hell" but they were later kept in when they aired "Antz" and "The Iron Giant".

But yeah, with Saban having the stuff with Power Rangers likely influenced on things to keep and take out. Though think around DBZ's time is when they didn't mention of destroyed buildings had anyone in them and it just wasn't commented on until partway through Time Force.

[90sDBZ]

I just want to point out Sabat was doing a (bad) Brian Drummond impression in the original season 3 and even in the Cell saga (which he didn't redub) when he was starting to personalize the role it still felt more Drummond than the eventual voice that Sabat settled on by GT

I just don't see how people think Drummond only worked for season 1 and 2 and then Sabat "conveniently" took over the right time. Not saying you're arguing that, just that I don't get the argument when I see it.

Sabat's performance did take quite some time to become his own. And yes he was still impersonating Drummond to some extent well into the Cell saga.

And Drummond's later performance is still believable. It's more grounded, which makes sense for the character at that point, but is less fun to listen to than his earlier stuff.

He was also a bit more reserved with his screams later on. He's talked this in interviews, saying he had to tone it down to avoid damaging his voice, which makes perfect sense. I believe Ian Corlett calls this the 70% rule. Drummond can still scream really well later on, but his earlier screams were on another level.

[8000 Saiyan]

I'd say Sabat more or less came into his own with Kai and the Raging Blast games. Sure, he dropped the Drummond impression more or less in either the Cell or Buu sagas, but even still he sounded forced with that overly gruff voice that he also gave to Piccolo. Once he settled for a smoother take for Kai for both Vegeta and Piccolo, he sounded far more natural both when in speaking and screaming.

[AlexSketchy04]

[

Of course, this doesn't explain the replacement score or made-up lines about Goku's father being a brilliant scientist and whatnot--it just paints a picture of why things were so sanitized. Also, to be fair, if the characters believed in spirituality and souls passing through (which they obviously did), is using a phrase like "the next dimension" really all that inaccurate? Sounds like a perfectly reasonable descriptor of death from their standpoint. I think it was a pretty smart workaround.

Like I said "next dimension" isn't that bad and it was still clear Goku and everyone else who "went to the next dimension" was killed. Otherworld just would have been a way better workaround.

Canonically, Goku and Raditz did die in the Ocean Dub, XD

[NitroEX]

Kids WB is also where the 4Kids dub of Yu-GI-Oh, aired, and that was still notoriously subject to censorship, to varying degrees of silliness. Broadcast television in general seemed to be just a bit more strict than the stuff you saw on stations like Cartoon Network.

Also I think their standards had changed over time. That arc on Yu-Gi-Oh with the "magic disc that will steal your soul when it touches you" would've remained a buzzsaw on Batman and Superman. Heck, Dan Turpin's shocking death was allowed.

That's not really a good example. There's nothing about that death that would require censorship. In fact, I'd say that is an example of censored death, only it would be self-censorship at the pre-production level rather than something changed in post-production.

Death by magic, in which someone is zapped away with no sign of suffering/screams, dismemberment, blood (or anything remotely morbid) is perfectly clean and in line with kid's network standards.

I totally get the sentiment that anime was seemingly under more scrutiny than western animation, but in the case of 4Kids and Saban, I think they were doing more self-censoring than was probably required of them. People who worked for 4Kids have said at one point that the Japanese licensors actually approved of and wanted things censored for the US, and a lot of the Yu-Gi-Oh censorship carried over into the TCG and continued long after the series was being broadcast or sold to kids (they still censor religious references, skirts being too short, etc).

In Saban's case, they had gotten flack for Power Rangers before, which undoubtedly had a ripple effect on their anime localisations moving forward, but also, they were airing DBZ on syndication which, to my understanding, brought with it more content restrictions. Something I often noticed with Digimon was that they would occasionally play cheerful music during fight scenes which feels more like a preemptive move on their part to avoid coming across too violent rather than someone at a network giving them a note to change it.

Speaking of CN, their standards changed over time as well with how when the airings of "Dead Zone" and "The World's Strongest" they took out the instances of "damn" and "hell" but they were later kept in when they aired "Antz" and "The Iron Giant".

I think movie showings are allowed a bit more leeway as long as the age rating is displayed at certain points, whereas regularly scheduled series played throughout the day would all have to conform to the same age guidelines.

Another aspect of this is advertisers. If something is too violent then advertisers might not want to be associated with it and stop putting their ads on a channel altogether. Channels are basically there to sell ad space so it makes sense that they wouldn't want to rock the boat unnecessarily.

[MasenkoHA]

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Of course, this doesn't explain the replacement score or made-up lines about Goku's father being a brilliant scientist and whatnot--it just paints a picture of why things were so sanitized. Also, to be fair, if the characters believed in spirituality and souls passing through (which they obviously did), is using a phrase like "the next dimension" really all that inaccurate? Sounds like a perfectly reasonable descriptor of death from their standpoint. I think it was a pretty smart workaround.

Like I said "next dimension" isn't that bad and it was still clear Goku and everyone else who "went to the next dimension" was killed. Otherworld just would have been a way better workaround.

Canonically, Goku and Raditz did die in the Ocean Dub, XD

Canonically Goku, Raditz, Yamcha, Tien, Chiaotzu, Piccolo,Kami, Nappa, Cui, Dodoria, Zarbon, Random Frieza minion#43, and Guldo all died in the Ocean dub it was just the next dimension phrasing was used.