Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

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Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by ABED » Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:41 pm

Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan
Japanese Title: Burn Up!! Hot Fight, Fierce Fight, Super Violent Fight – Yup, this title is utterly meaningless. For anyone knowledgable about Japanese, what are the characters underneath the title?

This movie has been talked about and debated to death, more so than any other DBZ film. Obviously they struck gold when they designed Broly. And that's the draw. The simplicity of the design along with him being a wrecking machine even more than previous movie villains is something that sticks with you. Sadly, the film is a tad overwritten. There's a whole plot about enslaving a race so they can build a fake city on the ruins of an old one so they can fake out Vegeta, leave him to die by incoming comet, and then steal Earth to begin their new Saiyan empire. It's a mostly straight up revenge movie, but the writing overcomplicates a straightforward motivation. Sadly, I fall into the category of "Broly hates Goku because he made Broly cry when they were babies". For a while it made a sort of sense. I thought Broly sensed he was stronger and that this weaker baby made him feel weak is why he held a grudge. Now, I get that it's a weird "they're bound by destiny" scenario. I don't hate the picture. There's enough to like, and I like this version of Broly. I'll take it any day of the week over the "canon" version. Unfortunately, the length of the film hurts it a lot. There's way too much going on plotwise for what is a simple story, and the action is stretched out to boring levels. All he does is take attacks head on and doesn't slow down. What's Goku's big comeback? He gathers energy from his friends and defeats him with a SINGLE PUNCH. Broly has been beating everyone up for a ridiculous amount of time and instead of giving some of it back, Goku gets one good shot in.

On the plus side, Broly has a greater vocabulary than "Kakarotto!" in this movie.

Dub:
The script is INCREDIBLY accurate. It was what the dub should've been capable of the entire time. Even Goku's hobbies of "reading and sports" are the same between the dub and original.

Bojack Unbound
Japanese Title: The Galaxy at its Threshold!! A Phenomenally Awesome Guy
Sadly it's not the show about the anthropomorphic horse / former TV star battling depression and substance abuse. Bojack is among the least interesting villains and designs of all the movie villains. The most interesting aspect of his character isn't explored at all. He was imprisoned by the 4 Kaio, and instead of looking for revenge, he attacks Earth? Going after the 4 Kaio could've been interesting, but as the philosopher Jagger once said, "You can't always get what you want." The backstory is so perfunctory. Bojack shows up out of nowhere and we don't see him talk much about his captivity, so it's not a factor in how any of this plays out.

Even in Dragon Ball a bear hug is boring to watch. It's the most boring hold in wrestling, and it's just as bad here. While I like the short runtimes, as a consequence, the fights develop in ways that are often dull and formulaic. Sadly, the Z Team is mostly cannon fodder. I don't like how useless they all are. In the end, movie 9 is at the bottom of the barrel. The tournament at the beginning is pretty cool, especially with the tilting platforms That's it though. The rest of the film is dull as dishwater, from the action scenes to the choice of villains, to even their design.

Random Thoughts:
Something I never thought about until now, but in the opening credits of Cha La Head Cha La, what is the deal with the weird wires that gets digitized and then flesh layered on top of it to become a hand and arm? Do you all know what I'm talking about? It's so random and not Dragon Ball.
Bojack is an asshole. He pushes the girl in front of his ki blast.
Mr. Satan on a golden toilet taking a poop = comic gold.
I enjoy Trunks coming back in time to have fun. After everything he went through, I like the idea of him returning to the past just so he can have fun with his friends at what he thinks is going to be a lighthearted martial arts tournament.

The Dub:
"You forgot one thing, I'm my father's son!" is a silly line. It took me a while to see it. I've heard people or characters say things like that "you are your father's son." What's silly about this is the first part. How would someone he's just met and doesn't know anything about have forgotten about this kid's father?

Broly: Second Coming
Japanese Title: A Pair in Peril! Super Warriors Cannot Rest – somewhat more specific than the last few.

After watching this and the previous Broly movie, I still prefer this one. It's shorter and more fun. The choice to center the movie around Trunks, Goten, and Videl is an interesting one, but one that proves enjoyable. They all play off each other well. The action is befitting of kids and in comes Gohan as things start to get more intense. The movie changes up the formula of Piccolo showing up to rescue Gohan by having Kuririn doing the saving while wearing Piccolo's Namekian clothing. It's an odd choice but a cool spin. I know it makes no logical sense for the Dragon Balls to bring back Goku the way they do in this movie but I think it works fine. It's a story so no need for them to be 100% logical or consistent. It gives us one of my favorite DB movie moments when the Son men fire Kamehameha's and put an end to Broly once and for… son of a… Oh wait, phew. The next one isn't Broly and the "canon" (ugh) one isn't the same character. He's still overused, but for now, I'm happy with this ending. By and large I think Broly's overrated, but he's not terrible. He's still a good character who serves his purpose, but he's been used so many times that it's driven my interest into the ground.

Random Thoughts:
This movie introduces the shaman/conman. He will be used in the next film as well. I like when the films have their own continuity.
For whatever reason, DB writers really love pee jokes.

Home Video:
I love the choice of the red and white for the box art. It's maybe one of my favorite covers.
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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:02 pm

. What's Goku's big comeback? He gathers energy from his friends and defeats him with a SINGLE PUNCH. Broly has been beating everyone up for a ridiculous amount of time and instead of giving some of it back, Goku gets one good shot in.
It's a good thing these movies are generally accepted as non-canon otherwise we'd have to ask why Goku doesn't use his Miracle Punch (TM) more often

Even in Dragon Ball a bear hug is boring to watch. It's the most boring hold in wrestling, and it's just as bad here. While I like the short runtimes, as a consequence, the fights develop in ways that are often dull and formulaic. Sadly, the Z Team is mostly cannon fodder. I don't like how useless they all are. In the end, movie 9 is at the bottom of the barrel. The tournament at the beginning is pretty cool, especially with the tilting platforms That's it though. The rest of the film is dull as dishwater, from the action scenes to the choice of villains, to even their design.
The tournament stuff was so fun I'm willing to forgive how boring the meat of the movie actually is.

Random Thoughts:
Something I never thought about until now, but in the opening credits of Cha La Head Cha La, what is the deal with the weird wires that gets digitized and then flesh layered on top of it to become a hand and arm? Do you all know what I'm talking about? It's so random and not Dragon Ball.
I think it was to represent the Artificial Humans?


The Dub:
"You forgot one thing, I'm my father's son!" is a silly line. It took me a while to see it. I've heard people or characters say things like that "you are your father's son." What's silly about this is the first part. How would someone he's just met and doesn't know anything about have forgotten about this kid's father?
The classic Funimation rule of "If it sounds cool and quotable to 11-year old boys who care if it makes sense?"

Iirc, Movie 9 was written by Chris Neel and Sean Teague a.k.a the two worst writers from the dub.

.
For whatever reason, DB writers really love pee jokes.
Hey now toilet humor is universal and easy to make the kids laugh!

Trunks pissing on Broly was also the most entertaining part of that movie.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:40 pm

I don’t think the runtime for Movie 8 is necessarily a problem. 72 minutes is just barely long enough to be considered a feature film. I think the problem is more that the big fight against Broly takes up a good chunk of the runtime that perhaps could’ve been better spent building up the mystery surrounding Paragus and Broly. Speaking of which, I actually prefer their backstory here over what Toriyama would give us 25 years later.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:30 pm

Yeah, it always bugged me how they overcomplicated such a simple plot like Broly's.
The comet, the taking everybody away from Earth, the idiocy of thinking you can kill your son, the LSS, while he is using that immense power nonetheless. I mean, he survived a much bigger planet exploding by Freeza's blast when he was a fucking baby! what's a comet have going on for it to stick so badly to that plan? specially when it's Broly is at the peak of his powers.
I can hear Peter Griffin saying: "they are more married than Toei, when working on the Broly movie, to the concept of having a comet destroy the planet". Cutaway to the writing room: yeah; love it; good call, I love comets; I hate planets; what if we just drop Goku, Vegeta, Broly, everybody, and just have a comet crashing the planet?

And what's with that long-ass, boring, never-ending fight? I can't decided if Broly's punches are kinda vanilla or if the guys have more endurance than he does. This is something the new Broly movie did better, yeah, the fight is long as fuck there as well, but it's not a one-note thing, it's much more entertaining, which is what I expected when I learned about this movie. Vegeta's breakdown was ok, although he had an even better one vs Freeza.
And the unsatisfying finale, that takes forever because Vegeta is too proud. It's impossible not to FF the final act.

Broly's return is much more enjoyable, even though Broly forgot how to speak. I don't care much for the ending, and can't recall if Trunks' blast did anything or if it was just another futile attempt.

Bojack's movie is just sad. He's an asshole, his motivations don't seem to agree with his background and his end is so unsatisfying.
And also Goku saving Gohan. Nice, sure, way too late considering how long the bear hug was, but if he can just do that, then are the Other World laws just something he chooses to not break?
I can't remember if Geets goes to aid Trunks. I think he does and is oneshot soon after. I'd rather have him napping in Pegasus Seiya's little room than be used like that.
Why couldn't Bojack's goons have a great fight with Gohan's friends, and have Gohan vs Bojack both at their strongest fight? The Cell arc denied that from us when SP Cell showed up with no intentions of fighting, this was a great chance to give the audience what the original author didn't.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:08 pm

Regarding Bojack’s backstory, I don’t think it’s a problem that the movie doesn’t have him seeking revenge against the Kaio. I think it’s perfectly fine that the movie is centered around a tournament that Bojack and his gang terrorize. The real problem is that Bojack and his goons show up out of nowhere, and have no personality whatsoever. An easy fix would’ve been to have them be the alien fighters competing in the tournament, before ultimately revealing their true colors. That would’ve at least been something.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:15 pm

I'm also annoyed that Bojack's gang is not even crashing the tournament, they are like hidden far away where the fighters are alone and take them out one by one.
It's a strategy and it worked, to take them out one by one like some kind of Predator, but if they were such a noisy gang I would've preferred they had a more direct approach.

I don't even know where the final fight takes place, like an abandoned town? Not that they must stick with the tourney scenario, but it had such a different and novel design that it seems like a waste that the arena never welcomed any of the goons, not even as a result of the fight, like with Goku and Super 17.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by Cipher » Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:13 am

I’m right there with you on Movie 9. After a refreshing departure in Movie 8, it’s back to the dull-as-dirt formula of early Z movies, and despite a couple of neat background environments, I don’t think its action is enough to make up for its aggressively shallow and predictable plot. It also hinges its climax on a retread of the Cell Games, which isn’t particularly interesting. Basically everything people tend to hold against Movie 4 (retreads of main series material, adherence to formula), I think is more true of this one. Bojack and co. appear to basically just be a gang of murderous bandits, which could be a little imposing, but even that angle isn’t played up.

Movie 8 definitely overcomplicates its plot, but it’s such a breath of fresh air when watching the movies sequentially to have a villain who genuinely feels threatening, and any semblance of plot or backstory at all. Broly really does stand out among Dragon Ball’s villains, main series or otherwise, forgoing their usual charisma and visual gimmicks for a more grounded (and therein slightly more unnerving) no-nonsense sadist. Seeing the enslaved race’s planet destroyed within the events of the film gives events a level of consequence and gravitas the Z movies usually stay away from. The plot is silly, as is the resolution, but it’s a laudable departure for this run of films and I can’t help but think of it as being one of my favorites if not my very favorite one.

Movie 10 is a top pick for me as well. I love the mix of cast members (we even have Videl fighting Broly), and the overall look of the film, from its colors to its settings to its fight choreography. If the Z movies are just meant to be 45-minute spectacle, this one nails it more than most—remaining rewatchable for me in a way the other entries don’t always hit. The ending with the ambiguous wish and appearance of Goku give it a slightly more sentimental resolution than most of the movies get, and it doesn’t retread or rely on any main series material—instead taking the opportunity to give us mixes of characters we largely don’t get in the main plot, right down to the Goku-Gohan-Goten send-off.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:37 pm

Movie 8 was the dub first script that Chris Sabat handled and it certainly shows. Movie 6's dub was also super-accurate, and that was handled by John Burgmeier (Tien)
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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by Super Sonic » Sun Mar 05, 2023 10:34 pm

Movie 9 led to some confusion years later after it came out over here. Mainly due to the villain's name. Before I had Netflix and heard of a particular cartoon aimed at adults, would hear the name "Bojack" and of folks cosplaying him, thought they meant Bojack from "Bojack Unbound", not "Bojack Horseman".

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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:11 pm

Regarding Movie 8, it is interesting how there seemed to be a fairly vocal backlash against it, and Broly in general, for a good chunk of the 2010s. Obviously, there was TeamFourStar, but even ignoring them, it seemed like hating on Movie 8 and Broly became a “cool” thing to do among certain corners of the Internet, namely sub fans who believed that the character was emblematic of everything wrong with how the franchise was perceived in the West.

For the longest time, the most common talking point people made for why Broly is a lame character was “Goku made him cry when they were babies,” which, to be blunt, is a rather shallow observation.

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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by Vijay » Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:36 am

Landmark films M8 being standout for being most consistent animation & artwork becomin staple of future films

Vast improvement artwork & animation wise thx to prime Yamammuro & M10 several notch above. The lighting animation style still holds up 30 years later & ppl are discussin abt em

M8 plot was deep & myth surroundin LSSJ was intriguing with Broly's final transformation being worthy of all the buildup.

Not some cat, squid,goat, coinbox, some ningen joke

Dude was legit threat & almost rooted for the guy to win. Definition of badassery

Bojack film is unique for its setting & myriad characters. Gohan's SSJ2 was really well done

M10 plottin could'be been better. Considerin M8 was such heavy plot driven, 1st half M10 plot was barely existent kinda foreshadwoin Majin arc lol. Haha

Even the fight was so short, guess u can never fight evenly with Broly🤣 its always one sided beatdown...brutal

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Re: Deep Thoughts: Movie 8, 9, 10

Post by Scientist Fu » Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:24 pm

While my english is very limited, I'd do my best to explain what I think about M8 & M10, can't say much about M9 because I don't remember much, I just think it was a cool movie to watch once and then move on. The characters aren't to my liking and when I'm not fond of the characters things start to get boring to me, even if the story or the animation (etc) are good and all.

Starting with movie 8, my favorite movie, the reason for that is because, back in the day, I played budokai tenkaichi 1 and that's the first time I saw LSSJ Broly and my cousin told me that he was a saiyan just like Goku and Vegeta and that's when he intrigued me the most because he looked way too different from normal saiyans and then I saw a picture of Broly in his base form on Google and that intrigued me even more. I didn't know about any other surviving saiyans besides Goku, Vegeta, Nappa & Raditz at that time, so, my love for Broly started from there. I think I watched movie 10 before movie 8 in its entirety because it was really hard to find movie 8 where I lived. Anyway, when I finally watched movie 8 I was fascinated by the character, he seemed so mysterious and had an uncommon design, very tall, small eyes and an unique transformation (at that time ofc) and I also liked the fact that he was connected to Goku since they were babies & was also indirectly connected to Vegeta as well. I always thought that the reason why Broly hated Goku was because he cried next to him, but I was pretty young (10-12 years old iirc) and hadn't seen the original version of the movie yet, but that didn't make me hate the character, though. I loved everything about him, his design, his transformation, his personality, especially his backstory where I felt empathy for him to a certain degree. And that was the first time I had seen a real SSJ villain, who, in additon to that, was the legendary super saiyan, what's not to like? (I'm not counting Vegeta, he was no longer a villain after he started to get along with Goku & the others)

I really love how things escalate slowly in M8 and you learn more and more about Broly through the movie. I also like the coloring in this movie, especially Broly with the purple and blue hair, that adds more uniqueness. I find really interesting that Broly had like two facets (? I don't know if that's the right term) one with the crown on and his true self once he breaks free of his father's control, I really liked that contrast. I also loved how Broly was dominating the Z warriors, his fighting style is too brutish & imposing. When you compare his base form to his LSSJ form you can't really tell that it's the same character. And the fact that he made Vegeta sh$t his pants made Broly look way too menacing and I was glad that Vegeta feared Broly because he was unbearable before, way too prideful... a little too much & I've never liked that side of him. My favorite theme was this one https://youtu.be/_4C2c8PSzuE I don't know how to describe it but its like there's something sad, terrifying and mysterious at the same time and it really suits Broly imo.

Now for M10, I'm kind of disappointed of Broly's characterization in this film... when you saw M8 and then you watch M10 you feel like something is missing, although I understand why Broly acts that way it still wasn't as good as before. What I liked about this film is mainly SSJ Broly, the fights, the last scene and that's pretty much it, really. Nothing else to say.

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