How's Toriyama doing these days?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

Ronin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:44 am

How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Ronin » Thu Mar 16, 2023 8:42 pm

I know he's never been one to put himself out there. There are only a handful of pictures of him and the only video I've seen of him is on a talkshow from the 80s. But I've been hearing surprisingly little from him lately; even for him. Before, whenever there's a new movie, we at least got short interviews with him. But as far as I know, we haven't gotten anything like that in a while. The last bit of news that I heard about him was from a few years ago and it had something to do with tax evasion.

He's supposedly been working on the Super manga with Toyotaro and he worked on Super Hero, but I've always thought that they like to say that he's more involved with that stuff than he actually is. So is there any more news on him or any interviews with him in the past few years that I've somehow missed?

Cipher
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6333
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Nagano
Contact:

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Cipher » Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:41 am

We have drawings from him for Super Hero and the Granolah arc, and comments for the former as well. That's it, but it's about as much as we've gotten since Super started, outside of some comments for the 30th anniversary book and the interviews in the back of the first few manga volumes. The last verified correction we have from him in the manga is the end of the Moro arc, but those were also always few and far between, and may be coming less in general as Toyotaro has improved.

Also, by multiple accounts, including his own, he wrote Super Hero. He is its only credited screenwriter.

There's really no need to question his involvement. Especially when we have an example of how they'll talk about a story he truly isn't particularly involved in, a la the Moro arc. You can contrast official wording around that story line with basically every other part of Super, and the only takeaway you'll be left with is that when they really can't claim his signficant involvement, they won't. (Which is not to say he didn't contribute to or check it, as we have on-page corrections from him and Toyotaro at least implies in an official site interview that ideas regarding Merus came from him. It's still material he's approving and involved in as part of Super, but there are no claims that it's his story or outline there, in comparison to every other part, and even Toyotaro uses more careful wording such as "teaming up with Toriyama" regarding its creative process.)

We also know more less exactly what his role in the ideation for/writing of the Granolah arc was. Uchida and Toyotaro pitched the premise and character, and Toriyama sent back a full outline (including the invention of the Heatas/Heeters, whom Toyotaro ultimately designed, after having three earlier variations rejected by Toriyama) and wound up doing a handful of character designs like Monaito and the Sugarians. Toyotaro seems to have come up with at least the name for Black Freeza (per a site interview), so obviously there was still back-and-forth, but ... really, that one's probably the least mysterious as far as its behind-the-scenes process of any arc in Super, including the anime ones. This is all from site coverage, manga volumes, and Toyotaro and Uchida, but it's so specific (and falls so far short of any wild claims like it all being Toriyama) I can't imagine why any of it would be exaggerated or fabricated.

Ronin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:44 am

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Ronin » Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:12 am

Thanks for sharing. I hadn't heard of the recent character designs or seen that Toyotaro interview. I guess a lot of where my idea of Toriyama's involvement being an exaggeration comes from is at the beginning of each chapter in the Super manga, he gets the sole writing credit instead of at least sharing it with Toyotaro. So unless you happen to see certain interviews, the credits at the beginning can be misleading. So that also made me question other stuff like the writing credits for Super Hero. While I don't doubt that he contributed story concepts or character designs for it, it does make me question that he's its sole writer.

Cipher
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6333
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Nagano
Contact:

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Cipher » Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:37 am

Ronin wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:12 am Thanks for sharing. I hadn't heard of the recent character designs or seen that Toyotaro interview. I guess a lot of where my idea of Toriyama's involvement being an exaggeration comes from is at the beginning of each chapter in the Super manga, he gets the sole writing credit instead of at least sharing it with Toyotaro. So unless you happen to see certain interviews, the credits at the beginning can be misleading. So that also made me question other stuff like the writing credits for Super Hero. While I don't doubt that he contributed story concepts or character designs for it, it does make me question that he's its sole writer.
That would be an incredibly misleading credit translation choice on Viz’s part.

The Japanese credits are along the lines of “Original author/creator/story: Toriyama,” and “Manga (as in art and script): Toyotaro.”

They’re a little ambiguous, but not making any wild claims as the English credits wind up doing, while also undercrediting Toyotaro.

The Japanese movie credits use a more specific “Screenplay” credit for Toriyama.

Ronin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:44 am

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Ronin » Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:59 pm

Cipher wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:37 am
Ronin wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:12 am Thanks for sharing. I hadn't heard of the recent character designs or seen that Toyotaro interview. I guess a lot of where my idea of Toriyama's involvement being an exaggeration comes from is at the beginning of each chapter in the Super manga, he gets the sole writing credit instead of at least sharing it with Toyotaro. So unless you happen to see certain interviews, the credits at the beginning can be misleading. So that also made me question other stuff like the writing credits for Super Hero. While I don't doubt that he contributed story concepts or character designs for it, it does make me question that he's its sole writer.
That would be an incredibly misleading credit translation choice on Viz’s part.

The Japanese credits are along the lines of “Original author/creator/story: Toriyama,” and “Manga (as in art and script): Toyotaro.”

They’re a little ambiguous, but not making any wild claims as the English credits wind up doing, while also undercrediting Toyotaro.
It did cross my mind that it may have been a mistranslation, but I wasn't sure. That's a shame that Viz isn't accurately translating something so simple yet important.
The Japanese movie credits use a more specific “Screenplay” credit for Toriyama.
He also has the sole screenwriting credit for other movies like Resurrection F, but according to him, it's "just a memo" and "something I idly dashed off for the staff, just to help explain the flow of the story and the dialogue". How do we know that all of his scripts aren't just rough drafts or story treatments or something that the staff then has to flesh out?

Cipher
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6333
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Nagano
Contact:

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Cipher » Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:33 pm

Ronin wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:59 pm He also has the sole screenwriting credit for other movies like Resurrection F, but according to him, it's "just a memo" and "something I idly dashed off for the staff, just to help explain the flow of the story and the dialogue". How do we know that all of his scripts aren't just rough drafts or story treatments or something that the staff then has to flesh out?
He said he didn’t feel his script was very fleshed out, but was surprised to see it used basically 1:1.

There’s really no reason to question whether he’s writing the films. They didn’t indicate he drafted the Moro arc, and are comfortable with him commenting on how he doesn’t script fight scenes very much, etc. If they really wanted to lie about how much he did, they’d probably do a better job at exaggerating his involvement.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:44 pm

As I recall from a 2015 tweet made by Julian, Fukkatsu no F Director Yamamuro Tadayoshi drew the storyboard in a single month all by himself, so clearly there wasn't even a lot of thought put into how to depict the script beyond what Toriyama loosely scripted. It's a terrible shame, because in the hands of a capable director this film could have really added some great gravitas in the storyboard and other parts of directing.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

Ronin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:44 am

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Ronin » Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:04 am

Maybe you're right. If it's been commented on what he has and hasn't done in the past, I don't see why they'd stop now. The 2 main reasons why I made this thread were a lack of hearing any news from him lately on my part and being misled over a mistranslation. And the comments made about the Resurrection F script didn't help either. Part of me still thinks that whatever he's writing, it isn't full screenplays, but it's all pure speculation.

And I never thought that they're lying about anything, but just not being explicitly clear about everything going on; thus leading to misunderstandings. Still speculation, regardless.

Ronin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:44 am

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Ronin » Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:56 am

JulieYBM wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:44 pm As I recall from a 2015 tweet made by Julian, Fukkatsu no F Director Yamamuro Tadayoshi drew the storyboard in a single month all by himself, so clearly there wasn't even a lot of thought put into how to depict the script beyond what Toriyama loosely scripted. It's a terrible shame, because in the hands of a capable director this film could have really added some great gravitas in the storyboard and other parts of directing.
It does seem pretty rushed, so it wouldn't be surprising to me either way.

Ronin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:44 am

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Ronin » Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:58 pm

Cipher wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:33 pm He said he didn’t feel his script was very fleshed out, but was surprised to see it used basically 1:1.
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:44 pm As I recall from a 2015 tweet made by Julian, Fukkatsu no F Director Yamamuro Tadayoshi drew the storyboard in a single month all by himself, so clearly there wasn't even a lot of thought put into how to depict the script beyond what Toriyama loosely scripted.
I just remembered something in a Kanzenshuu article or podcast from around the time the movie came out about Toriyama's script being available for people who went to a Japanese screening of it and they were talking about wanting to get their hands on it. I've tried to find more info on this or see if they ever got it or if it's online anywhere, but can't find anything. Do you or does anyone else know anything about it?

User avatar
Omori
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:19 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Omori » Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:56 am

I just remembered something in a Kanzenshuu article or podcast from around the time the movie came out about Toriyama's script being available for people who went to a Japanese screening of it and they were talking about wanting to get their hands on it. I've tried to find more info on this or see if they ever got it or if it's online anywhere, but can't find anything. Do you or does anyone else know anything about it?
The script is included in the book ‘Volume F’, which you can find very cheap in second-hand book stores in Japan. And also online for a slightly higher price.

Ronin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:44 am

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Ronin » Mon Mar 20, 2023 6:58 pm

Omori wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:56 am
I just remembered something in a Kanzenshuu article or podcast from around the time the movie came out about Toriyama's script being available for people who went to a Japanese screening of it and they were talking about wanting to get their hands on it. I've tried to find more info on this or see if they ever got it or if it's online anywhere, but can't find anything. Do you or does anyone else know anything about it?
The script is included in the book ‘Volume F’, which you can find very cheap in second-hand book stores in Japan. And also online for a slightly higher price.
Are there any English versions or translations of it? And have you read it?

User avatar
Omori
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:19 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Omori » Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:34 am

Are there any English versions or translations of it? And have you read it?
I own the book, so I have read it in Japanese, but I don't know if there has been a proper English translation so far.

I remember two interesting things from the script.
1) Frieza's hell is described as a flower field surrounded by a forest. This forest is nowhere seen in the movie or anime.. In the manga there are some additional trees though...

(this description matches the drafts from the storyboard book)
Image

2) The location where Frieza is revived is described as being the same where Trunks cut him into pieces years ago. It hasn't been elaborated on why, but maybe because you come back alive at the place you die, I guess?

Outside the script, there are also other Toriyama comments, which have been translated here on Kanzenshuu:
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... -comments/

Also that Piccolo lives on a mountain owned by Satan near Gohan's house was also first mentioned in this book.
Image

Overall a nice to have little book.

Ronin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:44 am

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Ronin » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:25 pm

That is so cool to see. I was looking at some more storyboard stuff online and I think I like some of that more than the final product. I'd buy this book ASAP if I could read it. Too bad Viz or some company didn't put this out in English.
Omori wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:34 am 2) The location where Frieza is revived is described as being the same where Trunks cut him into pieces years ago. It hasn't been elaborated on why, but maybe because you come back alive at the place you die, I guess?
The Namekian Dragon Balls were like that, but I don't recall that happening with the ones from Earth; so that's odd.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:07 pm

Ronin wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:25 pm .
Omori wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:34 am 2) The location where Frieza is revived is described as being the same where Trunks cut him into pieces years ago. It hasn't been elaborated on why, but maybe because you come back alive at the place you die, I guess?
The Namekian Dragon Balls were like that, but I don't recall that happening with the ones from Earth; so that's odd.
The series has always been pretty consistent that characters brought back from the dead are revived wherever their corpse is (or would be in case where they were blown to smithereens) and that includes with the earth dragon balls. If a character got to keep their body in otherworld (ex: Goku in the Saiyan arc, Vegeta in the Boo arc) they're revived wherever they're standing.

The only time there was a really blatant contradiction to this rule, that I can think of, is the end of the Freeza arc where the Z warriors are all brought back to the Capsule Corp complex instead of Kaio's planet (or earth's check in station for Krillin). I guess because Porunga is a nicer guy than Shen Long?

User avatar
jjgp1112
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 7478
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:15 pm
Location: Crooklyn

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:50 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:07 pm
Ronin wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:25 pm .
Omori wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:34 am 2) The location where Frieza is revived is described as being the same where Trunks cut him into pieces years ago. It hasn't been elaborated on why, but maybe because you come back alive at the place you die, I guess?
The Namekian Dragon Balls were like that, but I don't recall that happening with the ones from Earth; so that's odd.
The series has always been pretty consistent that characters brought back from the dead are revived wherever their corpse is (or would be in case where they were blown to smithereens) and that includes with the earth dragon balls. If a character got to keep their body in otherworld (ex: Goku in the Saiyan arc, Vegeta in the Boo arc) they're revived wherever they're standing.

The only time there was a really blatant contradiction to this rule, that I can think of, is the end of the Freeza arc where the Z warriors are all brought back to the Capsule Corp complex instead of Kaio's planet (or earth's check in station for Krillin). I guess because Porunga is a nicer guy than Shen Long?
That was also a Toei fuck up since the manga never showed anybody being brought back, just skipping over it with narration.

Which is hilarious considering the revivals were the whole reason they went to Namek lmao
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler

Ronin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:44 am

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Ronin » Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:27 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:07 pm
Ronin wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:25 pm .
Omori wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:34 am 2) The location where Frieza is revived is described as being the same where Trunks cut him into pieces years ago. It hasn't been elaborated on why, but maybe because you come back alive at the place you die, I guess?
The Namekian Dragon Balls were like that, but I don't recall that happening with the ones from Earth; so that's odd.
The series has always been pretty consistent that characters brought back from the dead are revived wherever their corpse is (or would be in case where they were blown to smithereens) and that includes with the earth dragon balls. If a character got to keep their body in otherworld (ex: Goku in the Saiyan arc, Vegeta in the Boo arc) they're revived wherever they're standing.

The only time there was a really blatant contradiction to this rule, that I can think of, is the end of the Freeza arc where the Z warriors are all brought back to the Capsule Corp complex instead of Kaio's planet (or earth's check in station for Krillin). I guess because Porunga is a nicer guy than Shen Long?
This has never been explicitly stated before though, has it? And they apparently didn't know either because they only learned about that after using Namek's dragon balls. Did they just never know out of convenience? It was never mentioned by Kami or Bulma before either.

Frieza also kept his body in Hell. If that's true, he'd still be in Hell but not dead.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:51 pm

Ronin wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:27 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:07 pm
Ronin wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:25 pm .



The Namekian Dragon Balls were like that, but I don't recall that happening with the ones from Earth; so that's odd.
The series has always been pretty consistent that characters brought back from the dead are revived wherever their corpse is (or would be in case where they were blown to smithereens) and that includes with the earth dragon balls. If a character got to keep their body in otherworld (ex: Goku in the Saiyan arc, Vegeta in the Boo arc) they're revived wherever they're standing.

The only time there was a really blatant contradiction to this rule, that I can think of, is the end of the Freeza arc where the Z warriors are all brought back to the Capsule Corp complex instead of Kaio's planet (or earth's check in station for Krillin). I guess because Porunga is a nicer guy than Shen Long?
This has never been explicitly stated before though, has it? And they apparently didn't know either because they only learned about that after using Namek's dragon balls. Did they just never know out of convenience? It was never mentioned by Kami or Bulma before either.
It doesn't need to be explicitly stated when it's pretty much happened everytime a character was brought back to life.

They didn't learn about that using the Namekian dragon balls it happened everytime prior when they used the earth dragon balls for a revival wish. See Bora, Kuririn, Roshi, and Chaozu
Frieza also kept his body in Hell. If that's true, he'd still be in Hell but not dead.
Goku keeping his body was treated as special circumstances and we're supposed to assume the same for Yamcha and the others after they died in the Saiyan arc I guess. We were even told Vegeta wasn't supposed to get to keep his body after dying and Enma Daio only let him keep it "just in case"

I don't think Frieza got to keep his body for special circumstances I think it was just a visual aid to let the viewer know it's Frieza and not some random soul.

Or Super is a general mess. Either explaination works fine.

User avatar
Peril
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:27 pm

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Peril » Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:57 pm

I don't think I have ever seen a recent picture of Tori so he feels like an ageless being to me even though I know he is an old man.

User avatar
Saiya6Cit
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:53 am
Location: MEXICO
Contact:

Re: How's Toriyama doing these days?

Post by Saiya6Cit » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:31 am

He is not present in social media they way other mangaka are and that in my opinion is determined mostly by his group of age. Television is not such an important media anymore so it makes sense he would not be there either.

As per what is mentioned about his involvement in DBS super heroe I think that is one kf the reasons why I enjoyed that movie more that the prevous ones, toriyama's humor is gold.

I did not know about the translations here at kanzenshuu, thanks for the link I will check it out.

Post Reply