"Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

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Jiren The Alpha
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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:01 am

super michael wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:38 am In Dragon Ball Z Goku wasn't known for these things:
  • Dropping his guard so down that he can't react
  • Underestimating his enemies
  • Getting annoyed for making smart decision, that has no consequence
  • Getting annoyed for training without Goku
  • Annoying a master so much, that the master wanted to refuse to train Goku
  • Being totally clueless on someone identity and someone lies



In DBZ Goku took his battle serious, didn't hold back or hold a form back without a good reason. Kaioken = damage body or explode and SSJ3 = reduce time on earth.

In DBS he holds back and refuse to transform no matter the danger.
Come on, just say you did not watch the show, it's okay, it's not for everyone.
Last edited by Jiren The Alpha on Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by ABED » Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:05 am

UpFromTheSkies wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:01 amSSJ3 does reduce his time on earth, but he could have used it to defeat Majin Vegeta and then again Buu, which would have saved everyone from a lot of suffering. He could have also had everyone bum rush Cell but decided to play his game and have a fair fight instead, even giving him a senzu bean. Goku made stupid decisions all throughout Z because of his naive ideals or selfishness.
While I agree that Goku mosstly fights for his own enjoyment even when the stakes are high, one thing I disagree with is your idea that everyone bum rushing Cell would've been a good strategy. Giving Cell the senzu is playing his game, but DBZ isn't a story where a numbers game is helpful. Everyone would've been killed. They wouldn't have been able to help Gohan.
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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by super michael » Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:30 pm

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:01 am
super michael wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:38 am In Dragon Ball Z Goku wasn't known for these things:
  • Dropping his guard so down that he can't react
  • Underestimating his enemies
  • Getting annoyed for making smart decision, that has no consequence
  • Getting annoyed for training without Goku
  • Annoying a master so much, that the master wanted to refuse to train Goku
  • Being totally clueless on someone identity and someone lies



In DBZ Goku took his battle serious, didn't hold back or hold a form back without a good reason. Kaioken = damage body or explode and SSJ3 = reduce time on earth.

In DBS he holds back and refuse to transform no matter the danger.
Come on, just say you did not watch the show, it's okay, it's not for everyone.
Who are you to say what I did or did not watch. For your information I have read the manga many times of Dragon Ball and I have read Dragon Ball Super Manga. I am waiting for the next chapter of DBS to get released.

I have watched Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z/Dragon Ball GT in English/Spanish/Japanese 100%. I have watched DBS in Japanese.

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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:22 pm

super michael wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:30 pm
Jiren The Alpha wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:01 am
super michael wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:38 am In Dragon Ball Z Goku wasn't known for these things:
  • Dropping his guard so down that he can't react
  • Underestimating his enemies
  • Getting annoyed for making smart decision, that has no consequence
  • Getting annoyed for training without Goku
  • Annoying a master so much, that the master wanted to refuse to train Goku
  • Being totally clueless on someone identity and someone lies



In DBZ Goku took his battle serious, didn't hold back or hold a form back without a good reason. Kaioken = damage body or explode and SSJ3 = reduce time on earth.

In DBS he holds back and refuse to transform no matter the danger.
Come on, just say you did not watch the show, it's okay, it's not for everyone.
Who are you to say what I did or did not watch. For your information I have read the manga many times of Dragon Ball and I have read Dragon Ball Super Manga. I am waiting for the next chapter of DBS to get released.

I have watched Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z/Dragon Ball GT in English/Spanish/Japanese 100%. I have watched DBS in Japanese.
Because Goku did not know Roshi was Jackie Chan, he got tricked by Raditz, he got tricked by Freeze the same way he got by Raditz, he did not use ssj3 against Vegeta, he did not beat buu because he wanna the boys to do it, he gave Cell (the guy that was going to fight his son too the death) a senzu bean, he played rock paper scissor against Vegeta too decide who fights Kid buu instead of fusion.

Thats why i thought you did not watch it. But its find, memory loss is a huge problem in this fanbase so you are not alone, its all good :thumbup:

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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by super michael » Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:55 pm

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:22 pm
super michael wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:30 pm
Jiren The Alpha wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:01 am

Come on, just say you did not watch the show, it's okay, it's not for everyone.
Who are you to say what I did or did not watch. For your information I have read the manga many times of Dragon Ball and I have read Dragon Ball Super Manga. I am waiting for the next chapter of DBS to get released.

I have watched Dragon Ball/Dragon Ball Z/Dragon Ball GT in English/Spanish/Japanese 100%. I have watched DBS in Japanese.
Because Goku did not know Roshi was Jackie Chan, he got tricked by Raditz, he got tricked by Freeze the same way he got by Raditz, he did not use ssj3 against Vegeta, he did not beat buu because he wanna the boys to do it, he gave Cell (the guy that was going to fight his son too the death) a senzu bean, he played rock paper scissor against Vegeta too decide who fights Kid buu instead of fusion.

Thats why i thought you did not watch it. But its find, memory loss is a huge problem in this fanbase so you are not alone, its all good :thumbup:
Master Roshi disguised his scent to fool Goku, none of Master Roshi students knows Master Roshi identity except Tenshinhan.
Goku did figure out Kami identity inside a human body and Kami lies about the Dragon Balls.
Raditz tricked Goku you are right. I give you that one.
Using SSJ3 was risky, since it reduce his time on earth. Therefore there was a risk to using the form.
Goku wanted to have time to teach Goten and Trunks, instead of himself beating Buu, since Goku knew there will always be villains that can appear stronger than Buu, which did happen. Goku killing Buu but not having time to teach Goten and Trunks would be bad, since Goku would be in other world, unable to go back to earth.

Goku giving Cell a senzu bean was dumb, I give you that one. Goku says he wanted the fight to be fair, that is all he says. So yes dumb reason. Choosing who takes turn to fight Kid Buu was dumb, I give you that one.


I just saw the Freeza part, Freeza managed to trick Goku, so I give you that one.

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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:21 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:05 am
UpFromTheSkies wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:01 amSSJ3 does reduce his time on earth, but he could have used it to defeat Majin Vegeta and then again Buu, which would have saved everyone from a lot of suffering. He could have also had everyone bum rush Cell but decided to play his game and have a fair fight instead, even giving him a senzu bean. Goku made stupid decisions all throughout Z because of his naive ideals or selfishness.
While I agree that Goku mosstly fights for his own enjoyment even when the stakes are high, one thing I disagree with is your idea that everyone bum rushing Cell would've been a good strategy. Giving Cell the senzu is playing his game, but DBZ isn't a story where a numbers game is helpful. Everyone would've been killed. They wouldn't have been able to help Gohan.
I think if everyone had stepped in and attacked Cell before he regenerated from Goku's kamehameha, they would have defeated him, but Goku wanted to play his game and only fight one on one. Goku could have also finished Cell off by himself, all he had to do was eat a senzu after his instant kamehameha and hit him with another attack and Cell would have been gone, but he just stood their and let him regenerate.

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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by ABED » Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:32 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 8:21 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:05 am
UpFromTheSkies wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:01 amSSJ3 does reduce his time on earth, but he could have used it to defeat Majin Vegeta and then again Buu, which would have saved everyone from a lot of suffering. He could have also had everyone bum rush Cell but decided to play his game and have a fair fight instead, even giving him a senzu bean. Goku made stupid decisions all throughout Z because of his naive ideals or selfishness.
While I agree that Goku mosstly fights for his own enjoyment even when the stakes are high, one thing I disagree with is your idea that everyone bum rushing Cell would've been a good strategy. Giving Cell the senzu is playing his game, but DBZ isn't a story where a numbers game is helpful. Everyone would've been killed. They wouldn't have been able to help Gohan.
I think if everyone had stepped in and attacked Cell before he regenerated from Goku's kamehameha, they would have defeated him, but Goku wanted to play his game and only fight one on one. Goku could have also finished Cell off by himself, all he had to do was eat a senzu after his instant kamehameha and hit him with another attack and Cell would have been gone, but he just stood their and let him regenerate.
Even if they hadn't let him regenerate, they don't need everyone, just Gohan. Gohan was the only one who had the power to defeat Cell. Everyone else was so outclassed that even Vegeta and Trunks were having trouble against the Cell Jrs. The numbers game isn't the issue here. And Goku couldn't have finished off Cell. Cell was still holding back during his fight against Goku. I agree fundamentally that the characters (not just Goku) have screwed up ethics. But this isn't new.

The whole "serious Goku" thing is nonsense. He's different in Super but not for that reason. The show plays up his childlike qualities, so among other things, he's more impetuous than previously shown.
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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by dva_raza » Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:50 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:46 am
dva_raza wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:35 pm
?

The definition of fanservice is: The inclusion in a work of fiction of material designed merely to excite the viewer.
That is it, it's a little thing to hype fans with something they want, so I don't know where you're getting a "bit" from.

Again, what does Vegeta’s silly win being a mockery of their silly rivalry (or a joke, or anticlimactic, unimpressive, etc) have anything to do with whether it was pandering?

Just trying to understand if you romantizing a cheap fanservice is just some devil's advocate rambling or if you actually have a point.

You and abed agreeing that meditation scene bad, but then going out of your way with mental gymnastics to say it WASN’T done for pandering though ..uh, ok. Then what was Goku's regressing done for?
Whatever, man, there’s literally nothing worth anrguing about here. I acknowledged it was fanservicey, but I don’t agree that it’s pandering specifically to Vegeta fans because it was barely a victory for Vegeta and the film acknowledges that in a tongue in cheek manner. It gave fans something they wanted to see in an intentionally back-handed, anticlimactic way. If it was more of an “epic” and well-earned victory, then I’d be more inclined to call it pandering.

That’s it.

wHatEVeR mAn

My guy...I dunno what you regurgitated your exact same post for but if you gonna reply are you like, actually able to answer a question? What. does. the. quality. of. the. fight. have. to. do. whether. it’s. fanservice? 3rd time asking.


I didn’t cite the definition for nothing.
What you are talking about has objectively nothing to do with what a fanservice is, if not only cause it’s the opposite. The whole nature of a fanservice is that it doesn’t have any sort of serious justification for it. It’s something that’s quickly added as an easy way to score extra points. That’s why it’s cheap. And that's why I said it's not at all deep.

So you talking about whether the fight/win is or not epic, impressive, self-aware, well-earned, anticlimactic, a joke, whatever the fuck, is either off topic discernment or a strawman.

Which is why I also asked, also unanswered, why was Goku “regressed” for then, if it wasn’t to facilitate Vegeta winning a silly challenge?
Your whole ‘the joke is on us, on Vegeta, the win is pitiful, it's mocking their rivalry’ yadda yadda...Okay great, are you saying that means Goku was written correctly after all? If yes, cool. How? If not, again, excuse the bluntness but what the fuck does that gotta do with the topic?


dva_raza wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:40 pm
Fucking what?

I wouldn’t agree myself with something as moronic as what you just put in my mouth, I hope that's clear.
That’s some bizarre takeaway of what I’ve said dude. Like can you quote whatever remotely sounded like there’s a plan to intentionally fuck Goku over?

I said it’s a Vegeta fanservice. And that they farted out a nonsensical scene which downgrades Goku along with making other elements look redundant, to facilitate Vegeta winning the challenge, to make his fans happy, which it did.

And I said that's cheap and wrong.

How did you translate "pandering to Vegeta fans" into "conspiracy to intentionally make Goku look worse"?
Goku isn’t the emphasis or motivation. And not sure why you’d qualify writing a poor scene to throw a bone to the whiny crowd as a “conspiracy”.

What the fuck.
Okay, maybe you disagree with the exact wording there, but your POV is that the scene was done for a specific agenda of pandering to Vegeta fans, with Goku being used as collateral damage for that goal? If you don’t think making Goku look worse is the goal itself, fair enough, but that was my interpretation of your rants. Especially when you turn around and say this shit in your very same response:
May I ask who doesn’t know this and what does this have to do with the issue of Goku getting fucked over in favor of Vegeta pandering?
In case it was somehow unclear, I am aware that was your interpretation. And I said your interpretation is fucking weird. Since they are absolutely different things.

Just call it a mistake instead of trying to blend the correct paraphrasing you're making now/my quote, and the nonsense you had said previously pretending like you don’t see the difference between the two notions.


I don’t see how you can take this much issue with what I’ve said.
Because it’s idiotic and I did not say it?

Mainly those 2 reasons.

I’ve literally agreed with 99% of what you’ve said, I just have one minor disagreement.

I swear to god, you give people an inch of benefit of the doubt on this forum and this is what always happens…
Yeah I guess it happens when you’re that caught up in appealing to all sides you forget to find out what those sides even are. Sorry I ruined your higher than thou post but I do actually mind you distorting my point cause unlike you, I have one. As for ‘agreeing’, I don’t know what that has to do with it. There wouldn’t be an issue here if you legitimately liked the scene. Like I said, I respect anyone who does. What I don’t is openly saying you don’t like something and then going out of your way to defend it for some reason. That’s just as pitiful as Vegeta’s win.
Last edited by dva_raza on Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:41 am

dva_raza wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 5:50 pm
LoganForkHands73 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:46 am
dva_raza wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:35 pm
?

The definition of fanservice is: The inclusion in a work of fiction of material designed merely to excite the viewer.
That is it, it's a little thing to hype fans with something they want, so I don't know where you're getting a "bit" from.

Again, what does Vegeta’s silly win being a mockery of their silly rivalry (or a joke, or anticlimactic, unimpressive, etc) have anything to do with whether it was pandering?

Just trying to understand if you romantizing a cheap fanservice is just some devil's advocate rambling or if you actually have a point.

You and abed agreeing that meditation scene bad, but then going out of your way with mental gymnastics to say it WASN’T done for pandering though ..uh, ok. Then what was Goku's regressing done for?
Whatever, man, there’s literally nothing worth anrguing about here. I acknowledged it was fanservicey, but I don’t agree that it’s pandering specifically to Vegeta fans because it was barely a victory for Vegeta and the film acknowledges that in a tongue in cheek manner. It gave fans something they wanted to see in an intentionally back-handed, anticlimactic way. If it was more of an “epic” and well-earned victory, then I’d be more inclined to call it pandering.

That’s it.

wHatEVeR mAn

My guy...I dunno what you regurgitated your exact same post for but if you gonna reply are you like, actually able to answer a question? What. does. the. quality. of. the. fight. have. to. do. whether. it’s. fanservice? 3rd time asking.
No, I don’t care nearly enough to give you the satisfaction, so you can fuck off with that stinking attitude of yours. If you put half as much effort into actually reading both mine and others’ replies (not just in this thread, but generally speaking) rather than cursing me out over some pedantic bullshit, you’d probably find the answers you seek. As I made perfectly clear, I have no interested in getting dragged into an unhinged back and forth with you about this.

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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by dva_raza » Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:51 am

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:41 am No, I don’t care nearly enough to give you the satisfaction
Satisfaction lmao. A tad dramatic but, okay.

so you can fuck off with that stinking attitude of yours. If you put half as much effort into actually reading both mine and others’ replies (not just in this thread, but generally speaking) rather than cursing me out over some pedantic bullshit, you’d probably find the answers you seek.
Stop blowing off smoke little guy.

I read everything well many times. And I didn’t miss anything. So no, the disconnect would definitely be the whole feigning ignorance of something that's being pointed out which would invalidate your angle thing, on top of your “interpretation” of my posts being the best indicator of who is the one here who should read things more clearly.

As I made perfectly clear, I have no interested in getting dragged into an unhinged back and forth with you about this.
Actually, (other than the stance you repeated in every post) you haven’t made perfectly clear literally anything at all, let alone that, but for the record I have no interest in what you're interested in or what you do, whatsoever.

Spare me the pearl clutching at someone questioning something you are saying on a discussion forum.

I think not distinguishing someone being rude and someone being “mentally deranged” is what seems unhinged though.
I was annoyed at worst and did intend to convey that. Not just at your patronizing tone with deflecting what I asked several times but mainly with you misrepresenting what I said and then blaming me for it.
Last edited by dva_raza on Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Serious Goku" Comments on DB Youtube Clips

Post by ABED » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:15 am

I'd be interested to know how reflective of the overall fandom those complaints are. I don't trust the net to give a good random sampling of audience opinion on anything.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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