What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

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What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Jord » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:33 am

Best: Probably the ending to the Vegeta fight in the Saiyan saga.
There's a logical progression to the fight with the power shifting from one side to another without it feeling like an asspull. Ultimately Vegeta loses due to fatigue leading to a miscalculation and the ending with Goku wanting Kuriririn to let Vegeta escape was very interesting.

Worst: a tie between the Golden Freeza and Goku Black saga.
Both endings felt like massive asspulls. While the Golden Freeza fight wasn't terribly interesting to begin with him winning was certainly a bold move. Oh, but wait. Let's just rewind time so the heroes can try it again. Takes away any sense of danger or stakes. If you want him to win, let him temporarily win so the heroes are at a huge disadvantage (Like how Kid Buu temporarily won by killing just about everyone and blowing up Earth) Odds stacked against heroes can make a story line very intriguing. However, instead they basically just used a continue, coming out of nowhere.
Well, at least in the Golden Freeza fight the heroes beat the bad guy. The ending to Goku Black's fight involved Goku pressing a magic button so that the bad guy literally got erased from the story. Basically just a summon button. No climactic fight, no cool technique. Nope. Goku just presses a magic button on his magic remote and the bad guy is beaten. Such a shame since the story during this saga was fairly interesting for Super standards.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:40 am

I don't find the Resurrection 'F' / Golden Freeza ending (or, like, entire story arc all all comprehensively as a whole) to be interesting, but I wouldn't call it unsatisfying. Nothing about it registers a single emotion out of me. Total ambivalence.

I love the ending to the Future Trunks / Goku Black arc. I think it's peak Toriyama undercutting. I love the sword in the anime, I love the button press, I love everything about it in both mediums. I wouldn't call it "THE" best, because there's really nothing in Super that's at that level, but it's probably top of the list of Super... which isn't saying much, I guess...?

(Black Freeza abruptly ending the Granolla arc is probably up in the running there for top Super endings.)

Overall, I'd say my favorite ending might be Saiyan arc. There's so much melancholy but hope and aspirations and objectives and goddamn the art across both the manga and the anime is amazing. Love love love that whole arc.

Least favorite would be... I dunno, Red Ribbon? Fortuneteller? I don't even dislike them, I just don't like them as much as everything else.
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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Vegard Aune » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:01 am

Honestly the button press is whatever. It was properly set up ahead of time. It is a Deus Ex Machina in an extremely literal sense (A machine that brings down God to resolve the situation) but narratively it isn't that.

...I mean I still cannot stand the end to the Zamasu arc but it's not because of the Omni-King Button. It's just because it is an arc where everybody loses in a fashion that feels so pointlessly cruel and at odds with everything Dragon Ball is. Nothing Trunks, Goku or Vegeta do ultimately works and in the end the best that can be said is "Well at least Zamasu is gone even if his death claimed an entire cosmos as collateral damage". And the only meaningful impact the arc has on the present day story is "there are two Omni-Kings now."


...So yeah that's the worst for me. With the caveat that I have not read Moro or Granolah. But that ending is just... I sincerely despise it.

Best? Well, having recently re-read the manga... I was struck by how honestly, for as messy as the journey was, Majin Boo had a pretty damn solid conclusion, and even if Toriyama ultimately opted to leave off the story on a very open note, the final showdown with Boo does a lot right to make it feel like an appropriately epic finale to the whole series. I think it's the fact that both sets of Dragon Balls and all the people on both Earth and Namek are needed to finish the fight is what does it, really. Which is extra strange in light of how the rest of the arc is as... slapdash as it is.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:03 am

I abhor Fukkatsu no F as a film but goddamn did I laugh so hard at the film's ending. Talk about self-aware.

My favorite arc ending is probably the Twenty-Second Tenka-ichi Budoukai, mostly because it doesn't leave you off with a sense of "everything will eventually work out" which I think sort of underpines the Saiyan arc's ending. The Twenty-Second Tenka-ichi just...ends with the death of the main character's boyfriend and with him flying off to get revenge. It's really quite shocking—especially since the series had been relatively stakeless up until that point—with the exception of maybe Bora's death.

I also love the "everyone dies" angle of the Zamasu arc, although I think it could have used more melancholy and discontent from Trunks, Mai and Vegeta. Let's get some drama going by having those three want to kill the Zen-Ou! Maybe someday...
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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Majin Buu » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:07 am

VegettoEX wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:40 am I love the ending to the Future Trunks / Goku Black arc. I think it's peak Toriyama undercutting.
I like whenever Toriyama subverts audience expectations so I like that aspect of that ending. Otherwise I don't feel strongly about it either way, though I don't hate it.
Jord wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:33 amNo climactic fight, no cool technique.
There was a big climatic battle with flashy techniques, that battle just wasn't what ended the conflict.

As for me, the Saiyan arc and the Buu arc have the best endings because the victories in those battles came down to more than just "whoever's the stronger person wins".

An honorable mention goes to the Freeza arc since I like that Goku outright stops fighting Freeza and only puts him down for good because Freeza didn't know when to quit.

As for worst ending? I don't really have an arc where I specifically hated the ending, but based on what I said earlier, the Cell arc because that did just come down to "who's stronger?" Though I wouldn't say "worst" so much as "most conventional".

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Jord » Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:30 am

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:03 am I abhor Fukkatsu no F as a film but goddamn did I laugh so hard at the film's ending. Talk about self-aware.
Yeah, you're right there. It's hyper-aware with it's ending. Guess the joke was on me.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Trouser » Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:17 pm

Best: Shadow Dragons Arc
The music, the tension, the callbacks to previous arcs when gathering genki. Vegeta wanting to sacrifice himself, so others could train and defeat the enemy. Trunks unwilling to leave Vegeta alone on the battlefield. Every capable fighter deciding to fight and die for the planet and friends.
Vegeta's laugh and... Goku's smile and Genki Dama arising from the pit... I just love it. The moment Pan understood that Goku is alive and is going to continue the fight, the moment when she realised that there is still hope... It still gives me chills for this day.
The mystery behind the final moments is amazing.

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Worst: Goku Black Arc and Granolah Arc.
I don't know what ending is the worst. I guess the one with two Trunks'. It's... uhh. Granolah's was ruined for me with Frieza's arrival and yet another recolor. Both endings are cheap.
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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Mar 23, 2023 2:21 pm

I love the end of the 22nd Tournament. The end of the fight is really close and suspenseful with Goku and Tien falling from the sky, and Goku getting hit by the truck is both unexpected and funny in just how over the top the whole thing is. In Z we regularly see people fighting in the sky and knocked through mountains, but here it feels like a big deal.

The aftermath with everyone running from the stadium to greet the 2 fighters is a really over the top feelgood moment, and it feels like the ending to a Rocky movie. I love how the crowd have both of them on their shoulders as they look at each other with mutual respect. Roshi's speech to Tien is also great.

That's a great ending in itself, but then there's the 2nd half of the episode which turns the tone on its head. Krillin's death and the foreshadowing leading up to it really is chilling, and it sets up the next arc perfectly.

For worst I'm tempted to say Resurrection F because it feels anti-climactic, but I also think the Black arc is a contender. The latter feels haphazardly thrown together, as if they weren't sure how to end it. Trunks losing his entire world after everything he'd been through felt undeserved and mean spirited.

Trunks is a character who deserved the happy ending he got after Cell, and to see all that thrown out the window was too depressing for DB. If this were a different franchise the bleak ending might have been appropriate, but it's DB.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:07 pm

I'll divide this into each series.

Dragonball:
Best:
22nd TB, Goku loses due to landing on a bus, but the crowd holds him in high regard just as they do with the winner, who was a villain and now is a reformed person and a new friend. And it is bridged with the next arc, and Krilin gets killed. You feel you are safe with the impressive Tenshinhan switching sides but you are not, there's a bigger threat.

Worst: I wouldn't say it was a bad ending, but the first arc was never a favourite of mine. The ohzaru revelation was great and all, but I prefer the other endings.

DBZ:
Best: Saiyan arc. Vegeta is so tough, nothing seems to put him down for good. They throw everything at him and he keeps on getting back up. And he isn't dead! he crawls his way back into his pod and takes off still having enough juice to threat them one last time. That W was fucking earned.

Worst: Gohan slow-cooking Cell, even in his 2nd form is too much for me although it works I guess, but when Cell comes back through a huge plothole, only to shoot a KHH against an injured Gohan, and all that whiny Gohan thing takes place, god... I don't like it when the story is stretched for the sake of it.

DBGT:
Best: Shadow Dragons. That's it.

Worst: Super 17. I think the arc is so bad, no ending could be considered good.

DBS:
Best: Anime ToP. Goku and Freeza teaming up with whatever they had left to take out a powerhouse and save the universe.

Worst: FT arc. Goku resorting to some other guy to deal with a bully. Not my cup of tea.

Post anime DBS:
Best: Granola. Freeza comes out of nowhere and cleans the house. Also, that arc was begging for an ending.

Worst: Moro arc, again another let's stretch this out just because situation.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Jord » Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:34 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:07 pm Worst: Super 17. I think the arc is so bad, no ending could be considered good.l
While that arc is indeed a weird mess I actually really liked the ending with 18 getting into the action once again to avenge Kuririn being killed (once again lol).

Her teaming up with Goku was novel. How many times have we seen women fighting the finall boss of a saga? Plus, they actually used their brain instead of just using a big KI blast.

The ambiguousness regarding of the original 17 still had some control over Super 17 and allowing himself to get hit was also a nice touch. The conversation Goku and 18 had afterwards was written very well.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Yuji » Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:37 pm

Surprised nobody mentioned the Boo arc as the best. Everything comes together nicely. The stakes are appropriately the highest they've ever been with Boo killing off everyone, destroying the planet and the fight being moved to the godly realms with spectactors from Otherworld and beyond watching the fight that will decide the fate of the universe. All the characters have a role to accomplish, various plot devices from previous arcs were called back on to serve the climax, character arcs are wrapped up very nicely, from Goku, to Vegeta, to Mr. Satan, and the finishing blow being a callback to the titular objects circles everything back nicely. "Thank you, dragon balls!" Indeed.

I assume folks overlook how great the final battle is because of the epilogue but I also love it and think it is very appropriately Dragon Ball and serves Goku's character nicely. It leaves things open-ended enough to service the reader's imagination while giving a good enough sense of finality to let you know the story is really over this time, for real.

As for the worst ending, I struggle to pick one. The series, if anything, is spectacular at creating engaging and satisfying climaxes and epilogues to its story arcs. Outside of the Shadow Dragons, none of the set pieces from the closing moments of the other GT arcs stick with me, so I guess I'd choose either Baby or Super 17.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by ABED » Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:43 pm

Best: Either the Piccolo Daimao or 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai because I still get emotional at the ending.

Least Favorite: Buu - I've come to like the ending of DBZ, but it still bugs me that he's leaving with this kid for what feels like an extended period. Goku can teleport to and from wherever he needs to be. He can train Uub all day and be home in time for wrestling. It just feels very unfulfilling.
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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Yuji » Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:51 pm

ABED wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:43 pm Best: Either the Piccolo Daimao or 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai because I still get emotional at the ending.

Least Favorite: Buu - I've come to like the ending of DBZ, but it still bugs me that he's leaving with this kid for what feels like an extended period. Goku can teleport to and from wherever he needs to be. He can train Uub all day and be home in time for wrestling. It just feels very unfulfilling.
I think that's exactly what he does. We see Goku and Oob hanging out with Goku's family in Neko Majin Z.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Vegard Aune » Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:07 pm

Yuji wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:37 pm Surprised nobody mentioned the Boo arc as the best. Everything comes together nicely. The stakes are appropriately the highest they've ever been with Boo killing off everyone, destroying the planet and the fight being moved to the godly realms with spectactors from Otherworld and beyond watching the fight that will decide the fate of the universe. All the characters have a role to accomplish, various plot devices from previous arcs were called back on to serve the climax, character arcs are wrapped up very nicely, from Goku, to Vegeta, to Mr. Satan, and the finishing blow being a callback to the titular objects circles everything back nicely. "Thank you, dragon balls!" Indeed.

I assume folks overlook how great the final battle is because of the epilogue but I also love it and think it is very appropriately Dragon Ball and serves Goku's character nicely. It leaves things open-ended enough to service the reader's imagination while giving a good enough sense of finality to let you know the story is really over this time, for real.
Um... I did, though... It might have gotten lost in the shuffle as I spent most of my post ragging on Future Trunks's ending for being just plain cruel and senseless.
Vegard Aune wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:01 am Best? Well, having recently re-read the manga... I was struck by how honestly, for as messy as the journey was, Majin Boo had a pretty damn solid conclusion, and even if Toriyama ultimately opted to leave off the story on a very open note, the final showdown with Boo does a lot right to make it feel like an appropriately epic finale to the whole series. I think it's the fact that both sets of Dragon Balls and all the people on both Earth and Namek are needed to finish the fight is what does it, really. Which is extra strange in light of how the rest of the arc is as... slapdash as it is.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:13 pm

Yuji wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:37 pm Surprised nobody mentioned the Boo arc as the best. Everything comes together nicely. The stakes are appropriately the highest they've ever been with Boo killing off everyone, destroying the planet and the fight being moved to the godly realms with spectactors from Otherworld and beyond watching the fight that will decide the fate of the universe. All the characters have a role to accomplish, various plot devices from previous arcs were called back on to serve the climax, character arcs are wrapped up very nicely, from Goku, to Vegeta, to Mr. Satan, and the finishing blow being a callback to the titular objects circles everything back nicely. "Thank you, dragon balls!" Indeed.

I assume folks overlook how great the final battle is because of the epilogue but I also love it and think it is very appropriately Dragon Ball and serves Goku's character nicely. It leaves things open-ended enough to service the reader's imagination while giving a good enough sense of finality to let you know the story is really over this time, for real.

As for the worst ending, I struggle to pick one. The series, if anything, is spectacular at creating engaging and satisfying climaxes and epilogues to its story arcs. Outside of the Shadow Dragons, none of the set pieces from the closing moments of the other GT arcs stick with me, so I guess I'd choose either Baby or Super 17.
I was tempted to say Buu. I agree the final battle is great with everyone getting involved, the various setbacks they face, great development for Vegeta, and the twist of Mr Satan saving the day. It's a very uplifting ending compared to the bleaker Cell ending. Now that I think about it Buu might be my favourite ending.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Majin Buu » Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:35 pm

Yuji wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 3:37 pm Surprised nobody mentioned the Boo arc as the best.
Majin Buu wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:07 am As for me, the Saiyan arc and the Buu arc have the best endings
:roll:

Two people mentioned it before you dude.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:24 pm

The best ending for me might be the ending of DBGT for reasons I think we ALL know by now. Goku saying goodbye to everyone acts as a way for the audience to say goodbye to them, and seeing the state of the DB world 100 years later is a nice bit of reassurance.

The worst ending for me is probably the conclusion of the Future Trunks arc...it's not even just about Trunks losing everything, it's that everything afterwards feels so rushed as if they had to continue onto the next story that it feels like the writers callously disregarded Trunks' character arc.
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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:42 pm

Best would either be the Buu arc or Future Trunks arc. I love the whole aftermath of Buu's defeat. Goku and Vegeta doing the thumbs up, everyone getting back together at the Lookout and the anime has that great episode where everyone meets up for a dinner party. Then there's the time skip with Uub and the tournament. I actually disliked the EoZ stuff the first time I watched it. I thought it didn't make sense for Goku to just leave everyone to go train some kid. But it turns out it's the most Goku thing for him to do. Make this kid as strong as possible so he can duke it out with the strongest.

And the Future Trunks arc ending is my favourite for this moment. I actually choked up the first time I saw this. Future Trunks seeing Gohan and remembering Future Gohan made him think that he failed. But then he realises that the only reason present Gohan exists is because of what Future Trunks has achieved. Yes, it's tragic that his timeline pretty much got erased, but it was also tragic back in the Android arc when damn near the whole cast got killed by the Androids.

As for the worst arc ending? I can't really think of a bad ending. Kind of an unpopular opinion, but I never really liked the way the Namek arc ends. Goku's fake death, Freeza's fake death, the Namekians all chilling at Capsule corp waiting for the Dragon Balls to be available again and also that whole convoluted plan of King Kai and Kami's that's being explained as Goku and Freeza are fighting. It felt like Toriyama didn't really know how to wrap up the arc and kinda just made it up (like he usually does, but it felt more obvious here). The start of the Android arc also cheapens the ending of the Namek arc.

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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by ABED » Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:20 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:42 pm that whole convoluted plan of King Kai and Kami's that's being explained as Goku and Freeza are fighting.
What was convoluted about it? Logically they have to use both sets of Dragon Balls to resurrect everyone and get them to safety.

I agree about Freeza's fakeout death. I can't recall how Goku's plays out in the manga.
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Re: What IYO is the best and worst ending to a DB saga?

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:55 pm

ABED wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:20 pm
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:42 pm that whole convoluted plan of King Kai and Kami's that's being explained as Goku and Freeza are fighting.
What was convoluted about it? Logically they have to use both sets of Dragon Balls to resurrect everyone and get them to safety.
Don't know if convoluted was the right word. But yeah, using two sets of Dragon balls to bring everyone back and then send them to Earth all while Goku and Freeza were fighting felt out of place amongst the action. The Grand Elder also coming back to life even though he seemed to have died of natural causes was weird.

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