The real reason why Broly hates Goku answered by Takao Koyama

[Scientist Fu]

I've seen a topic long time ago in here about the first Broly movie explaining his true motivation and the misunderstanding that surrounds this character and the analysis was incredible. Let's see what MR. Takao Koyama has to say about it:
3. When did Broly get awakened by grief (sadness)?
That's when he became the legendary Super Saiyan. The trauma from when he was baby and the shock of meeting Goku triggered the transformation.

4. Does Broly remember his trauma as a baby as "the only memory of defeat"?
That's right. I didn't come up with it alone, but decided after discussing it with other staff members.
The memory of Broly losing to Kakarot, who is far weaker than himself, remains a traumatic memory.
When Broly loses, he remembers when he was a baby. I meant to allude to his trauma (Why does Broly hate Kakarot) in that scene.
I want you to judge for yourself whether this was properly conveyed to the viewers.

7. Broly doesn't just resent Goku directly, but hates him because he invites trauma such as assassination and the collapse of the planet?
Yes, Because of that story, Broly and Goku become destined rivals, and the whole picture of the story can be seen.

scenes from the movie that explain it

Spoiler:

Broly being bothered by the fact that Goku can defeat him

The memory of Broly losing to Goku who is far weaker than him is his main trauma. He does suffer from PTSD.
source: https://twitter.com/Brolist_kr/status/1 ... 0361413635

[Seekeroftruth]

This is a poor explanation and doesn't make sense.

[Scientist Fu]

This is a poor explanation and doesn't make sense.

Can you elaborate more? what does not make sense exactly?

[TheMikado]

This is a poor explanation and doesn't make sense.

Can you elaborate more? what does not make sense exactly?

Yes, please elaborate.

[Seekeroftruth]

This is a poor explanation and doesn't make sense.

Can you elaborate more? what does not make sense exactly?

He says the reason that broly hates goku initially was due to him inviting trauma such as assassination/collapse of the planet. This to me makes no sense since both events had nothing to do with goku. Broly's attempted assassination was at king vegeta's hand, who only did this because he feared broly usurping the throne from him. The planet's destruction was due to frieza's fear of the legendary super saiyan. Both these events have nothing to do with goku and would have occurred regardless. So it's an irrational hatred for broly to hate goku for something that he had no involvement with.

[Scientist Fu]

This is a poor explanation and doesn't make sense.

Can you elaborate more? what does not make sense exactly?

He says the reason that broly hates goku initially was due to him inviting trauma such as assassination/collapse of the planet. This to me makes no sense since both events had nothing to do with goku. Broly's attempted assassination was at king vegeta's hand, who only did this because he feared broly usurping the throne from him. The planet's destruction was due to frieza's fear of the legendary super saiyan. Both these events have nothing to do with goku and would have occurred regardless. So it's an irrational hatred for broly to hate goku for something that he had no involvement with.

It's true that it's not directly connected to Goku, but Goku's ki makes him remember about all the events that happened to him as a baby and he hates him for that. He associates Goku's ki with these events, he suffers from terrible PTSD.
"PTSD symptoms
Intrusive memories

Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:

Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event
Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
Upsetting dreams or nightmares about the traumatic event
Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the traumatic event"

"Broly doesn't just resent Goku directly, but hates him because he invites trauma such as assassination and the collapse of the planet?" Goku invites these traumas. Like a soldier who hears gunfire or cries and this very sound of the gunfire or the cries bring back bad memories because the soldier associates it with dead people or suffering, they are reliving the traumatic events. Which works the same way for Broly, he is reacting to Goku's ki and it brings back bad memories, which we can see them when they start emanating their ki at each other when they first meet, starts around 0:52 https://youtu.be/pw-qGbqThdA?list=LL&t=50 Broly had no other factor to make him remember about these events other than Goku himself, the person he has spent the most time with in the maternity ward. King Vegeta is dead so it couldn't trigger Broly in any way and Frieza was outside the planet when he destroyed it so that wouldn't work even if they somehow met and the same thing applies to Vegeta, Broly didn't experience anything with him when he was a newborn.

[Desassina]

Empathy, and not hate, is what Broly should have towards Goku in case that was the justification. Goku's crying might have been traumatic, but it comes off as something that people grow to be annoyed at, and not to resent whom Broly hardly knew. Movie 8 is a fun romp from a cool time to be a Super Saiyan. However, the story has always been dumb, and I guess that the following movies made fun and capitalized on that idea by not taking themselves too seriously.

[Saiya6Cit]

It was clear for me all of this years that broly hated goku because he would cry too much when next to him at the neonatal area.

What is new here is introducing the fact that broly would associate goku's crying (most likely his ki sparks) with the pain and suffering from the planet's destruction.

Interesting thing to ponder on but it does not make the broly story better. Let's not forget that in japan they had to come up with DBZ movies per contract, movies are not precisely related to the main manga story. Broly in my opinion was simply the hulk but in saiyan, in other words he exists because they needed plot for a movie and that's it.

[Scientist Fu]

It was clear for me all of this years that broly hated goku because he would cry too much when next to him at the neonatal area.

What is new here is introducing the fact that broly would associate goku's crying (most likely his ki sparks) with the pain and suffering from the planet's destruction.

Interesting thing to ponder on but it does not make the broly story better. Let's not forget that in japan they had to come up with DBZ movies per contract, movies are not precisely related to the main manga story. Broly in my opinion was simply the hulk but in saiyan, in other words he exists because they needed plot for a movie and that's it.

I personally think that it does make the story a lot better and gives Broly an understandable and reasonable reason to hate Goku, and also justifies his behavior in movie 10. It's definitely not the best reason, but it works well for DB (movie) standards. I can understand that some people would still find it lacking, but the reason was never what (some) people thought it was.

[Seekeroftruth]

Can you elaborate more? what does not make sense exactly?

He says the reason that broly hates goku initially was due to him inviting trauma such as assassination/collapse of the planet. This to me makes no sense since both events had nothing to do with goku. Broly's attempted assassination was at king vegeta's hand, who only did this because he feared broly usurping the throne from him. The planet's destruction was due to frieza's fear of the legendary super saiyan. Both these events have nothing to do with goku and would have occurred regardless. So it's an irrational hatred for broly to hate goku for something that he had no involvement with.

It's true that it's not directly connected to Goku, but Goku's ki makes him remember about all the events that happened to him as a baby and he hates him for that. He associates Goku's ki with these events, he suffers from terrible PTSD.
"PTSD symptoms
Intrusive memories

Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:

Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event
Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
Upsetting dreams or nightmares about the traumatic event
Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the traumatic event"

"Broly doesn't just resent Goku directly, but hates him because he invites trauma such as assassination and the collapse of the planet?" Goku invites these traumas. Like a soldier who hears gunfire or cries and this very sound of the gunfire or the cries bring back bad memories because the soldier associates it with dead people or suffering, they are reliving the traumatic events. Which works the same way for Broly, he is reacting to Goku's ki and it brings back bad memories, which we can see them when they start emanating their ki at each other when they first meet, starts around 0:52 https://youtu.be/pw-qGbqThdA?list=LL&t=50 Broly had no other factor to make him remember about these events other than Goku himself, the person he has spent the most time with in the maternity ward. King Vegeta is dead so it couldn't trigger Broly in any way and Frieza was outside the planet when he destroyed it so that wouldn't work even if they somehow met and the same thing applies to Vegeta, Broly didn't experience anything with him when he was a newborn.

Still doesn't make sense. Broly is more likely to get a reactionary trigger from Vegeta's face than from seeing Goku. Broly has never once seen goku's face and only has the crying from when they were neonates (how many of u can remember your memories from early infancy?). In addition, the common trend among saiyan culture was that no one could detect ki unless they had a scouter on, so how does newborn broly magically know that that the kid in the crib right next to him was goku? It makes no sense an is a poor man explanation in broly's hatred for goku. It is more rational for broly to have a deep seated hatred and possible PTSD for vegeta and subsequent films to develop a hatred/rivalry for Son Goku for defeating him in movie 8.

[Scientist Fu]

He says the reason that broly hates goku initially was due to him inviting trauma such as assassination/collapse of the planet. This to me makes no sense since both events had nothing to do with goku. Broly's attempted assassination was at king vegeta's hand, who only did this because he feared broly usurping the throne from him. The planet's destruction was due to frieza's fear of the legendary super saiyan. Both these events have nothing to do with goku and would have occurred regardless. So it's an irrational hatred for broly to hate goku for something that he had no involvement with.

It's true that it's not directly connected to Goku, but Goku's ki makes him remember about all the events that happened to him as a baby and he hates him for that. He associates Goku's ki with these events, he suffers from terrible PTSD.
"PTSD symptoms
Intrusive memories

Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:

Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event
Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
Upsetting dreams or nightmares about the traumatic event
Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the traumatic event"

"Broly doesn't just resent Goku directly, but hates him because he invites trauma such as assassination and the collapse of the planet?" Goku invites these traumas. Like a soldier who hears gunfire or cries and this very sound of the gunfire or the cries bring back bad memories because the soldier associates it with dead people or suffering, they are reliving the traumatic events. Which works the same way for Broly, he is reacting to Goku's ki and it brings back bad memories, which we can see them when they start emanating their ki at each other when they first meet, starts around 0:52 https://youtu.be/pw-qGbqThdA?list=LL&t=50 Broly had no other factor to make him remember about these events other than Goku himself, the person he has spent the most time with in the maternity ward. King Vegeta is dead so it couldn't trigger Broly in any way and Frieza was outside the planet when he destroyed it so that wouldn't work even if they somehow met and the same thing applies to Vegeta, Broly didn't experience anything with him when he was a newborn.

Still doesn't make sense. Broly is more likely to get a reactionary trigger from Vegeta's face than from seeing Goku. Broly has never once seen goku's face and only has the crying from when they were neonates (how many of u can remember your memories from early infancy?). In addition, the common trend among saiyan culture was that no one could detect ki unless they had a scouter on, so how does newborn broly magically know that that the kid in the crib right next to him was goku? It makes no sense an is a poor man explanation in broly's hatred for goku. It is more rational for broly to have a deep seated hatred and possible PTSD for vegeta and subsequent films to develop a hatred/rivalry for Son Goku for defeating him in movie 8.

I think you didn't really understand what I said or maybe I was vague about it. It's not about seeing Goku's face, it's about sensing Goku's ki, just like I showed in the video when they start rising their ki at each other. Sensing Goku's ki makes him remember about the cries and he associates those cries with his traumas. And it wouldn't make more sense for Broly to react seeing Vegeta's face because he has never seen it either. It is confirmed by Takao Koyama that Broly can sense ki, the movies do not always followup the same rules as in the manga.


And babies can be affected by traumas and if it is not treated correctly it will have really bad effects throughout their life and the traumatic memories can remain and reappear because of something, which is the case with Broly who experienced many traumas at once when he was a baby and these traumas have reappeared after sensing Goku's ki. Goku's ki indirectly brings back all the traumas he lived because he associates his ki with these traumas, which is why it's called PTSD. Takao Koyama himself said that he suffered from PTSD (can't find the tweet sorry). I hope it helps you to understand better now.

[Seekeroftruth]

It's true that it's not directly connected to Goku, but Goku's ki makes him remember about all the events that happened to him as a baby and he hates him for that. He associates Goku's ki with these events, he suffers from terrible PTSD.
"PTSD symptoms
Intrusive memories

Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:

Recurrent, unwanted distressing memories of the traumatic event
Reliving the traumatic event as if it were happening again (flashbacks)
Upsetting dreams or nightmares about the traumatic event
Severe emotional distress or physical reactions to something that reminds you of the traumatic event"

"Broly doesn't just resent Goku directly, but hates him because he invites trauma such as assassination and the collapse of the planet?" Goku invites these traumas. Like a soldier who hears gunfire or cries and this very sound of the gunfire or the cries bring back bad memories because the soldier associates it with dead people or suffering, they are reliving the traumatic events. Which works the same way for Broly, he is reacting to Goku's ki and it brings back bad memories, which we can see them when they start emanating their ki at each other when they first meet, starts around 0:52 https://youtu.be/pw-qGbqThdA?list=LL&t=50 Broly had no other factor to make him remember about these events other than Goku himself, the person he has spent the most time with in the maternity ward. King Vegeta is dead so it couldn't trigger Broly in any way and Frieza was outside the planet when he destroyed it so that wouldn't work even if they somehow met and the same thing applies to Vegeta, Broly didn't experience anything with him when he was a newborn.

Still doesn't make sense. Broly is more likely to get a reactionary trigger from Vegeta's face than from seeing Goku. Broly has never once seen goku's face and only has the crying from when they were neonates (how many of u can remember your memories from early infancy?). In addition, the common trend among saiyan culture was that no one could detect ki unless they had a scouter on, so how does newborn broly magically know that that the kid in the crib right next to him was goku? It makes no sense an is a poor man explanation in broly's hatred for goku. It is more rational for broly to have a deep seated hatred and possible PTSD for vegeta and subsequent films to develop a hatred/rivalry for Son Goku for defeating him in movie 8.

I think you didn't really understand what I said or maybe I was vague about it. It's not about seeing Goku's face, it's about sensing Goku's ki, just like I showed in the video when they start rising their ki at each other. Sensing Goku's ki makes him remember about the cries and he associates those cries with his traumas. And it wouldn't make more sense for Broly to react seeing Vegeta's face because he has never seen it either. It is confirmed by Takao Koyama that Broly can sense ki, the movies do not always followup the same rules as in the manga.


And babies can be affected by traumas and if it is not treated correctly it will have really bad effects throughout their life and the traumatic memories can remain and reappear because of something, which is the case with Broly who experienced many traumas at once when he was a baby and these traumas have reappeared after sensing Goku's ki. Goku's ki indirectly brings back all the traumas he lived because he associates his ki with these traumas, which is why it's called PTSD. Takao Koyama himself said that he suffered from PTSD (can't find the tweet sorry). I hope it helps you to understand better now.

I don't think you understand what I've said. Every single saiyan on Planet vegeta had to rely on a scouter in order to sense/measure ki. Broly has never seen Goku face to face and Goku's ki was particularly pitiful as a baby with the only noticeable discomfort that Broly had towards him was due to his crying. Crying that Broly would have no way of discerning was coming from Son Goku since he was literally in a seperate crib away from him and not visible to him.

It would make more sense of broly having PTSD from Vegeta's face for 2 reasons:

1. When king vegeta stabbed broly he brought him up close to eye level with broly's face directly in his line of sight
2. Vegeta and his father have similar facial eatures. So much so that Paragus noted vegeta to be the spitting image of his father.

I've never heard babies have severe trauma from a brief instance of other infants crying in their vicinity. Broly's trauma is more directly tied to someone trying to murder him twice. Both of these instances have nothing to do with goku and it's illogical to try and tie it towards him. Broly has a much better time sensing other saiyan babies kis, caretakers in the facility that looked over saiyan infants compared to goku.

[Scientist Fu]

I don't think you understand what I've said. Every single saiyan on Planet vegeta had to rely on a scouter in order to sense/measure ki.

I know that, but Takao Koyama said that Broly could sense ki so he could be an exception, he can sense ki without a scouter because he never wore one and was not in the Frieza force. That's what I'm talking about. If you are not taking into account what Mr Koyama says then it's fine, I'm not forcing you, but I do take his words into account and that's why I pointed it out.

Broly has never seen Goku face to face and Goku's ki was particularly pitiful as a baby with the only noticeable discomfort that Broly had towards him was due to his crying. Crying that Broly would have no way of discerning was coming from Son Goku since he was literally in a seperate crib away from him and not visible to him.

I get what you are saying but the presence (ki) of someone is specific to one person so it can be recognizable, it could be instinctively or sub-consciously, I don't see the problem here. He does not have to know that it was specifically Goku who was next to him when he was a baby, he automatically sensed something about Goku that triggered his traumas. When he is around Goku something starts to disturb him, Broly might not even know himself the reason why he feels like that around Goku, but he feels discomfort whenever he is nearby and since Goku makes him feel bad he hates that feeling so he hates Goku's presence. In Broly's point of view, he might not know that Goku was the crying baby next to him because I've never heard Broly saying something about knowing that Goku was the baby next to him. And the flashback is addressed to the spectators so maybe in Broly's POV he just hears some random baby crying and he unconsciously associates it with the pain he felt when he got stabbed etc which is triggered by Goku's presence. Briefly, he automatically feels something off when he is around Goku but he might not know who Goku is and why he feels like that whenever is close to him, he just feels it and that's pretty much it.

I've never heard babies have severe trauma from a brief instance of other infants crying in their vicinity. Broly's trauma is more directly tied to someone trying to murder him twice. Both of these instances have nothing to do with goku and it's illogical to try and tie it towards him. Broly has a much better time sensing other saiyan babies kis, caretakers in the facility that looked over saiyan infants compared to goku.

I don't know about all the traumas possible in the world so I can't reply to that. Whether it makes sense or not, that's what the scenarist decided. It's free to anyone to find it illogical, senseless, but we can't deny facts just because it does not make sense to us. I'm not here to change your mind. I just posted these informations for anyone who wanted to learn the truth.

It would make more sense of broly having PTSD from Vegeta's face for 2 reasons:

1. When king vegeta stabbed broly he brought him up close to eye level with broly's face directly in his line of sight
2. Vegeta and his father have similar facial eatures. So much so that Paragus noted vegeta to be the spitting image of his father.

It's fair and understandable.

[Cursed Lemon]

Goku had a power level of like...3, as an infant.

There is absolutely no way he imprinted on Broly like that lmao

[NeoZ Duwang]

Goku had a power level of like...3, as an infant.

There is absolutely no way he imprinted on Broly like that lmao

It's not about the actual number. As the narrator himself says, Goku definetly got some guts, it's not that Broli was affected by his power, but rather by his actual presence. The relation Broli has with Goku is that of is someone who has the power, but is clearly mentally and emotionally weaker than the person he hates

[Cursed Lemon]

Goku had a power level of like...3, as an infant.

There is absolutely no way he imprinted on Broly like that lmao

It's not about the actual number. As the narrator himself says, Goku definetly got some guts, it's not that Broli was affected by his power, but rather by his actual presence. The relation Broli has with Goku is that of is someone who has the power, but is clearly mentally and emotionally weaker than the person he hates

Somebody get Herms in here, apparently we need to start an official Kanzenshuu "Presence Power" chart

[Cure Dragon 255]

OMG THAT'S HILARIOUS. That really made me laugh in a low moment.

[Seekeroftruth]

Goku had a power level of like...3, as an infant.

There is absolutely no way he imprinted on Broly like that lmao

It's not about the actual number. As the narrator himself says, Goku definetly got some guts, it's not that Broli was affected by his power, but rather by his actual presence. The relation Broli has with Goku is that of is someone who has the power, but is clearly mentally and emotionally weaker than the person he hates

This just comes off as someone trying to cover up bad writing/plot by trying to give a crappy explanation that makes no logical sense.

[NeoZ Duwang]

This just comes off as someone trying to cover up bad writing/plot by trying to give a crappy explanation that makes no logical sense.

It's a cartoon about guys that punch things so hard that they can sometimes destroy entire worlds, so I'm fine with logic being ignored for the sake of the story and its themes, granted, suspension of disbelief is one of those really subjective things, so how much you're willing to accept is going to change from person to person, so all I can say is that I genuinely don't see the problem with Z!Broli's backstory. It's not too different than stuff like the Saiyans sending lower class babies to conquer planets, which I think is pretty silly from a logical sense, but it makes enough sense in the world of Dragon Ball.

The movie needed a new villain for Goku to fight, they also wanted said villain to be a new Saiyan, so they made a connection between both using their early life at Planet Vegeta

[Scientist Fu]

I can understand that some people do look for logical explanations, but in all honesty, searching for a pure logical/realistic explanation in a fictional world, specially in a world like DB where the ruler of the universes is a baby who destroys planets on a whim is like searching for water on the sun. I think that Takao Koyama's answer works just fine here, but you don't have to like it.

But if you really need to fill the lack of sens, you can always tell yourself that saiyans are build different, that Broly was out of the ordinary etc