DragonBall Z Abridged

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:49 am

Dragonball Z Abridged Creator Commentary | Episode 36
https://youtu.be/YXc7htZOMos
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Mar 26, 2023 6:03 pm

Scsigs wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 11:49 am Dragonball Z Abridged Creator Commentary | Episode 36
https://youtu.be/YXc7htZOMos
With Taka in his commentary talking about being unsure in his place on the team, it's good that Scott and Lani said Taka was there with the best jokes

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:46 pm

THE TAKA CUT | DBZA Commentary Ep. 9-10
https://youtu.be/CHhm4-dq6K0
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:52 am

I put together a complete compendium I'll update every time Kaiser, Lani, Taka, & maybe Masako upload commentary tracks for DBZA if anyone wants to save it. It also has the short clips Taka's been uploading to his VTuber channel from his streams, some of which aren't in the Four Star Bento uploads for some reason.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... wuTGQwKpTZ
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sat Apr 01, 2023 4:27 pm

Dragonball Z Abridged Creator Commentary | Origins
https://youtu.be/nTCMZyuy5A0

Lani & Kaiser watch & react to the first episodes of Yu Yu Hakusho Abridged & Lupin the 3rd Abridged from 2007. Interesting to see them do this. I'd kinda like to see them do more.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:51 pm

THE TAKA CUT | DBZA Commentary Bardock Father of Goku
https://youtu.be/vpEF8XL0N2Y
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sat Apr 08, 2023 2:48 pm

So, because this is going on on Twitter, how do people here feel when people say that DBZA ruined the fandom, or discussions around the franchise?
Conversely, how do people feel when people say that DBZA is better than DBZ?

I'm wondering what people who can offer up more substantial arguments than Twitter randos think about this.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Vegard Aune » Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:20 pm

I don't think TFS ever muddled the argument anywhere near as badly as the actual dub of Z. Because Abridged has a disclaimer in every episode that "This is a parody. Dragon Ball belongs to Toriyama. Support the official release." Like, if anyone actually thinks Popo is an evil overlord of unfathomable power, then that's on them for not paying attention. Meanwhile, someone who watched the show on Toonami in the late 90s and heard Vegeta claim that, if it weren't for Freeza, surely he would never have gone conquering planets? They have no reason to doubt that. That is, as far as they are concerned, the show itself telling them that. And I have observed that people are strangely reluctant to accept that anything they saw in whatever bad translation they first watched was indeed a mistranslation.
remembers how he had to actually explain at length why Whis never claimed anything about a "Universe 13" when he explained the twelve universes in Super because early fansubs claimed there was one but that was NEVER in the actual original text

I think that's ultimately why I can still love DBZA while hating the FUNi dub of Z even though neither is even close to an accurate representation of what Toriyama wrote. TFS never claimed to actually be Toriyama's Dragon Ball. Meanwhile the Z dub just flat-out presents itself as "Dragon Ball Z" with no further qualifiers, even though it is constantly changing things.



...Anyway,
DBZA Episode 37 Commentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeC5BH2aIw0

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:52 pm

People are hating on DBZA because it's no longer niche. Between Kaiser and Lani doing commentary vids, and who knows how many Episode React Vids, DBZA could be argued to be even more popular than ever. And some people don't like that, and are hiding behind excuses.

Hate the thing you once loved because you are no longer the special few who appreciated before it got mainstream, you dink. :|

on DBZA 37:

-I want to know what kind of weird fun Kaiser got on with Takei. Oh My Indeed.
-When it came to power scaling, maybe hand to hand Tenshinhan doesn't have it, but Shin Kikoho a couple amount of times would have definitely atomized Gero. He at least can output enough power to give a Super Saiyan pause.
-Dead Zone Abridged is gonna be fun.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by coola » Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:04 pm

Vegard Aune wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:20 pm I don't think TFS ever muddled the argument anywhere near as badly as the actual dub of Z. Because Abridged has a disclaimer in every episode that "This is a parody. Dragon Ball belongs to Toriyama. Support the official release." Like, if anyone actually thinks Popo is an evil overlord of unfathomable power, then that's on them for not paying attention.
Like with Guru and Nappa, Popo really didn't have too much of personality in manga/anime, and TFS did excellent job filling up that void :)

"You stay out of this!" and to think all of that mess started when Torishima told Toriyama he didn't liked #19 and #20 designs, really curious how story would turned out, or we would have really short saga?
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:19 pm

Vegard Aune wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:20 pm I don't think TFS ever muddled the argument anywhere near as badly as the actual dub of Z. Because Abridged has a disclaimer in every episode that "This is a parody. Dragon Ball belongs to Toriyama. Support the official release." Like, if anyone actually thinks Popo is an evil overlord of unfathomable power, then that's on them for not paying attention. Meanwhile, someone who watched the show on Toonami in the late 90s and heard Vegeta claim that, if it weren't for Freeza, surely he would never have gone conquering planets? They have no reason to doubt that. That is, as far as they are concerned, the show itself telling them that. And I have observed that people are strangely reluctant to accept that anything they saw in whatever bad translation they first watched was indeed a mistranslation.
remembers how he had to actually explain at length why Whis never claimed anything about a "Universe 13" when he explained the twelve universes in Super because early fansubs claimed there was one but that was NEVER in the actual original text

I think that's ultimately why I can still love DBZA while hating the FUNi dub of Z even though neither is even close to an accurate representation of what Toriyama wrote. TFS never claimed to actually be Toriyama's Dragon Ball. Meanwhile the Z dub just flat-out presents itself as "Dragon Ball Z" with no further qualifiers, even though it is constantly changing things.
Yeah. I've also seen someone say that DBZ isn't a masterpiece, yes DBZA is & when I told them DBZA isn't a masterpiece either & some people need to re-evaluate it without the rose-tinted glasses on, he told me that he disagreed, but that people need to do that with the original Z. Like, both have their problems. Z's flaws have been pointed out & heavily discussed in many places by now. DBZA's aren't nearly as talked about, I feel, & it's either chalked up to being the best thing ever, or the worst thing to happen to DB when it's neither.

Yeah, I agree with the Z dub being more destructive. DBZA at least gives you the correct information on things when it comes to plot stuff, mainly to make fun of how dumb things in the plot are, but still. They also make fun of things from the original Z dub that were mistranslations or misinformation. The point of a dub is to translate the dialogue & information into another language & have voice actors record the translated dialogue in said other language. Not only that, but have good voice acting & direction that lets people comfortably watch it. The Z dub was a product of its time where the people in charge didn't care about accuracy & were perfectly fine with taking massive liberties with the material as long as it appealed to children in English-speaking territories. This is why I very much prefer DBZ Kai's dub. It was made with the intent to correctly translate the dialogue into English & present the information as best it could. There were a few odd lines here & there, but not really any misinformation about the plot or characters that I remember.
FoolsGil wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:52 pm People are hating on DBZA because it's no longer niche. Between Kaiser and Lani doing commentary vids, and who knows how many Episode React Vids, DBZA could be argued to be even more popular than ever. And some people don't like that, and are hiding behind excuses.

Hate the thing you once loved because you are no longer the special few who appreciated before it got mainstream, you dink. :|
Well, I don't know. I feel like DBZA hasn't been niche in a long while. And, people have hated on it for longer than that. Hell, Kirran & Grant used to be some of their harshest critics, then they became friends with them & started working with them. I feel like some people let their interactions with certain parts of the fandom cloud how things actually are. Are there parts of the fandom that think DBZA is the best version of Z? Yes. However, I'd say it's probably smaller than some people think. Most people know it's a parody first & foremost & to not take it as gospel. It's hard to know how big of a group that is, though, especially when that's most of what you see or interact with.
I'd say there are some arguments to be made about how seriously they took themselves at times, though. Like, for me, towards the end of Season 3, I genuinely didn't like how they tacked on the moral of Gohan's pacifism with Cell berating him & it's played pretty straight. Like, Gohan's a character who, in both the original Z & DBZA for the most part wasn't really a pacifist, so much as he wasn't a fighter at heart like his dad, but has so much potential as one. It's partly why Toriyama had him go through a character arc in Super & Super Hero where he got back into shape & practice after spending years not doing so & focusing on his work. I think the criticism I've seen of the message fundamentally misunderstanding the characters is valid because it doesn't even line up with the Abridged versions of them.
Then, the way they developed Gohan & his anger issues towards Goku is another criticism I have. I don't think it really paid off in any way & I was wanting season 4 so they could properly conclude it by having 1 of the characters (maybe Piccolo or something) talk some sense into him if possible with the footage, or they'd make something for it. Kaiser himself even has regrets about how they played Gohan. Granted, I've seen Lani express similar opinions, but he also tried to justify how they did it in 1 of the commentary tracks when Kaiser brought it up with how they ended up with it. But, it's just like, no, these issues don't entirely make sense for Gohan to have at this point in the story to the extent he does. It'd fit better if the issues were started in season 3, then carried into 4, but they decided to do it earlier on, so they couldn't help it much later, but still.
coola wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 5:04 pm Like with Guru and Nappa, Popo really didn't have too much of personality in manga/anime, and TFS did excellent job filling up that void :)
Yeah. Some things TFS did with Z were pretty good. Popo's a good example. They remembered the scene in the Buu Saga where Popo successfully blocked all of Goten & Trunks' punches & kicks, then did something with it. And they made Popo a comedic sociopath on top of that. And it works because of how they played it. Guru's a different flavor of that. Nappa, they just made a big manchild who has no morals or cares. Like, I love a lot of what TFS did with the material when adapting, changing, or making fun of it for DBZA. I just don't really understand when people say it ruined discourse around DB, or when people say it's the best version of Z. It is neither. It's just a parody. How seriously you take it, or even if you like it or not is mainly on you. It's really dumb when all of the discourse around it devolves to those things.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:29 pm

Scsigs wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 8:19 pm
I'd say there are some arguments to be made about how seriously they took themselves at times, though. Like, for me, towards the end of Season 3, I genuinely didn't like how they tacked on the moral of Gohan's pacifism with Cell berating him & it's played pretty straight. Like, Gohan's a character who, in both the original Z & DBZA for the most part wasn't really a pacifist, so much as he wasn't a fighter at heart like his dad, but has so much potential as one.
In my humble opinion, they were working with the best they got. With how they've written Gohan, and how Toriyama written Gohan. Gohan may not have been a pacifist, but there was literally no reason anything prior to him becoming SSJ2 should have taken place, except because Toriyama needed drama, but he didn't set things up the best way, and it became that frustrating mess that it was. Every ally and friend and family member that came to fight and/or help, was being pulverized, and after they were done, they were going to go after the rest of the planet, including Gohan's mother, and he still couldn't find it in himself to fight. (If you haven't seen it, consider watching 'Gohan's Many Masks' on Youtube, it explains the issue far better than I could.)

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sun Apr 09, 2023 5:12 pm

FoolsGil wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:29 pm
I can see that. However, while, with Toriyama's version of him, it might feel a bit forced, the main part he used was the foreshadowing he peppered into the previous 2 arcs & how Gohan evolved his fighting prowess in future Trunks' timeline to justify how it at least makes a bit more sense. The Z anime somewhat helped a bit with its filler from the Saiyan Arc & Toriyama also had Gohan go through some development in that part of the arc so it doesn't completely come out of nowhere. His powers being driven by his focus & mental state is also something that Goku & Trunks (in the anime, at least) share, as Goku went Super Saiyan after Freeza killed Krillin & future 17 & 18 killed Gohan. Plus, that's how Super Hero gets Gohan to tap into his latent powers & get back his already-established powers through his love for his daughter, Pan.
In TFS' version, they (mostly) replaced his want to protect people with anger issues & throwing aside a pacifism that, largely, wasn't there beforehand. Almost every time Gohan's been in the fray, he's not shown a lot of fear, or got over any fear to do the right thing. The only time he didn't immediately do that is because he was 6 years old & hadn't really seen any combat outside of his training with Piccolo before that (& I say that because I believe him powering up & hitting Raditz was more of a fugue state that he doesn't remember, unless I forgot or missed something), so it makes sense like in the original version. So, while Toriyama's version is a bit forced, I'd say TFS' version is moreso.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:26 am

I do not think I ever watched any of Kaiser's Lupin, I would definitely rate it high among the episode 1s of the time that I saw. Lupin's being so inherently silly doing it a lot of favors, of course. I certainly still have a few lines for Lani's Yuyu Hakusho lodged in my brain. If whatever licensing situation preventing Crunchyroll from getting the second movie is ever resolved, my mind is going to be inserting "Damn it Hinegeshi, now we gotta do it the hard way!" and "Who punches down a tree?!" into any new dub. :lol:

Chris Guerrero's Gero always brings a smile to face. Gero is one of my favorite examples of the Toriyama duality of placing silly characters in effectively sinister lights, so his loss of composure being made that much more histrionic ("Seriously, WHAT THE **** IS NAMEK?!", "Yes I am!") is the sort of thing I would come to a spoof dub for. Piccolo's failed one-liners are absolutely in character but also remind me of FUNi's dub of the 23rd Budokai in which he asks Goku to "leave the one-liners to him". Well times change.

As far as Team Four Star ruining fandom, I guess I was not in the places where those discussion were being had at the time. In my experience the worst of it was the endless uncalled for quoting from the show (both online and in real life, in my case) and wasting convention guests' time picking their brains about it. Any questions about which is "better" that I recall seem to boil down to smothering self-awareness equaling better writing, which is a fact of our post Joss Whedon Avengers reality but really means nothing. The character insights as the show grows more serious are effectively TFS's commentary set to the characters themselves through the medium of the spoof dub, and as much as commentary can forever change how you see the original work, it is not itself the work. Particularly for something as simple as Dragon Ball that intends to be straightforward to begin with. Gohan versus Cell is a fun case, I think they overthought it, but I might rather wait until we get there and hear Scott and Nick's thoughts.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Puto » Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:36 pm

FoolsGil wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:52 pm -When it came to power scaling, maybe hand to hand Tenshinhan doesn’t have it, but Shin Kikoho a couple amount of times would have definitely atomized Gero. He at least can output enough power to give a Super Saiyan pause.
Except Gero could probably absorb the Kikoho.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:06 pm

Puto wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:36 pm
FoolsGil wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 3:52 pm -When it came to power scaling, maybe hand to hand Tenshinhan doesn’t have it, but Shin Kikoho a couple amount of times would have definitely atomized Gero. He at least can output enough power to give a Super Saiyan pause.
Except Gero could probably absorb the Kikoho.
Well yeah, it wasn't going to be easy to take him out. But could Tenshinhan reasonably do it? Yes.

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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:45 pm

BlazingFiddlesticks wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:26 am As far as Team Four Star ruining fandom, I guess I was not in the places where those discussion were being had at the time. In my experience the worst of it was the endless uncalled for quoting from the show (both online and in real life, in my case) and wasting convention guests' time picking their brains about it. Any questions about which is "better" that I recall seem to boil down to smothering self-awareness equaling better writing, which is a fact of our post Joss Whedon Avengers reality but really means nothing. The character insights as the show grows more serious are effectively TFS's commentary set to the characters themselves through the medium of the spoof dub, and as much as commentary can forever change how you see the original work, it is not itself the work. Particularly for something as simple as Dragon Ball that intends to be straightforward to begin with. Gohan versus Cell is a fun case, I think they overthought it, but I might rather wait until we get there and hear Scott and Nick's thoughts.
It was mainly on Twitter. For some reason, the algorithm showed me DBZA trending & I saw some people were saying it ruined the franchise, or at least discussion of it, then I saw some people say it was the best version of it. I largely stay away from discussions on either side of the spectrum & lean more towards discussing what I think TFS did well & what they did poorly. It honestly sucks that most people agree that the earliest part of the show (season 1 & some of early season 2) are not that good & everything else after that is much better, but people can't discuss how some smaller things in later episodes aren't good either. I even remember the night that part 3 of episode 60 came out, or maybe it was part 2, some people on Twitter had a negative reaction to it.
IMO, the message isn't bad in of itself, but makes little sense to do with Gohan in that moment. It's similar writing to late-stage Family Guy or The Simpsons where those writers just focus mainly on telling jokes or doing an aesop & don't care about how they use the characters in relation to those, so the characters come off as inconsistent, or just badly compared to how they were beforehand. Now, it's not nearly as bad as those shows can get, but that's my thought on it. Even Toriyama himself gets into that as well, as Goku's reasoning for staying dead is kind of forced & doesn't make a ton of sense, as well as Goku's reasoning for not tracking down Dr. Gero & stopping him from creating the Androids/Cyborgs isn't great either. And in the Buu Saga, Toriyama let jokes overpower the more serious storytelling at the wrong times & let fights he wanted to do drag on the arc too long, so I'm not saying TFS are the only ones to do it with DB (Super, both in the anime & manga, also suffers from this at points in some of the arcs with how the writers adapted Toriyama's plot outlines). Like, that makes more sense to do with Gohan in his late teens or adult age maybe, not when he's a pre-teen.
I agree that they overthought it & I think they believe the message overpowered the fact that it doesn't quite make sense in context of the show. It's kind of the level of thought put into the "I am the hope of the universe" speech from Goku or Vegeta saying Freeza is the reason he is as he is in the original Z dub, only with different intent behind it & I hate that I'm making that comparison. I'm curious as to who thought up that idea & why they thought it'd work as well.

Being self-aware is fine, but yeah, it's not the end all, be all of good writing. It just shows you understand what's going on & have a good sense of humor about it. The TFS team also say that they've had the benefit of hindsight since DBZ originally came out, which benefitted their jokes & slightly altered storylines & characters, as well as commentary on the original show itself. It's part of why Abridged straddles the line of Fair Use. They don't make any money directly off of it, they had commentary on the original product in it, & other things that go into parodies that make them transformative in nature. The only thing is that they edited the original animation to their voice recordings & jokes. THAT, I think, is what Toei takes the most exception with. Which makes sense since Japan doesn't really have Fair Use in their copyright laws. I agree with Kyle Hebert's take on DBZA & that it's basically free advertising for the official products, but I get why Toei doesn't like it existing.
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:52 pm

THE TAKA CUT | DBZA Commentary Christmas Tree of Might
https://youtu.be/bJqlmFLF8M0
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by FoolsGil » Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:08 pm

Scsigs wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:52 pm THE TAKA CUT | DBZA Commentary Christmas Tree of Might
https://youtu.be/bJqlmFLF8M0
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Re: DragonBall Z Abridged

Post by Scsigs » Sat Apr 15, 2023 4:33 pm

Dragonball Z Abridged Creator Commentary | Dead Zone
https://youtu.be/bmkBxeRVhRQ
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