Kanzenshuu

Here's the thing: I don't believe we should apply the same rules of reality to fiction. A character acting out of the way they acted before without the story explaining why they're acting as such, I consider to be bad. For example, going back to topic: the Saiyan Saga, Goku was full-on with the idea...

ABED wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:46 am

But I'll have to disagree with you when you try to argue it's not poorly planned out at all.

We can't discuss this any further when that has never been my argument and you claim it as such.

Semantics, but okay.

Vegeta's personality didn't change. Remember, Vegeta was warned by Zarbon that Freeza had more than one form, and still Vegeta egged him on. There is precedent. There is also precedent that the Cell Saga changes character personalities on the fly without clear justification. Yamcha suddenly being r...

Zeno isn't the strongest, that was the point, he subverts expectations because the Top God isn't a fighter. There's nothing to surprass with Zeno because he's not even on the chain. In before Toriyama reveals there are the Secret Shin Gods of Destruction, who serve the Secret Shin Angels, who serve...

People aren't always logical. We're EMOTIONAL beings. Why should we expect any different from fictional characters. Again, you keep claiming characters are stupid for the sake of the plot. Vague warnings from a guy who just shown him to be stronger than Freeza, and telling him that there are beings...

I won't be surprised if Toriyama ever comes up with a way to say there's something beyond Zeno, it sounds absurd sure, but the very idea of Beerus was absurd before too, to the point that before BoG, the idea of gods being worth a damn used to be laughable. I have zero doubt this will happen in the...

Putting my two cents here again: Vegeta's "sense of honor and pride, deciding to fight enemies he knows he can win" makes no sense. Vegeta as a character was extremely pragmatic during the Saiyan and Namek arcs, be it against enemies he knew he could beat or not. Biggest example I can find...

I always felt since the first time I watched/read that Shin was meant to be portrayed differently than how he was portrayed later. He's introduced as quite smug, condescending and apathetic, almost like he was meant to be a villain, anti-hero or at the very least stronger than most of the cast. But ...

Grimlock wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:34 am Did it, though? It still is much more clear to me that it isn't about strength, but rather his status. May you point out what exactly makes any of this be about strength?

Honestly, it's hard to take Shin's "God Ki" seriously.
At first, what the manga frames it as, is that Shin is on a league of strength above them all.
But then, the manga goes... "Nah, Shin sucks."

Something I still don't understand. Does King Kai have god ki? If not, why not? He is a god, isn't he? And if he does have god ki, how did Goku instant transmission Cell and himself to his planet? Goku wouldn't have been able to sense his ki then. Real-world answer: God Ki wasn't a thing until Supe...

I don't think it makes Goku poorly written, but I do see where people could reasonably expect a super hero story in the Z era and be put off by the main character's actions. Which might be why you enjoy GT since it's Toei doing more of the messiah Goku they wanted. Not sure if you've seen the pre-B...

ABED wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:05 pm I don’t hate GT. I like it more than most but just think the fights are subpar

In any even fair enough. Have a good one

The fights in GT are trash, and badly animated to boot, that much is true.
But thankfully for me at least, I don't watch Dragon Ball just for the fighting.

Then I ask for us to respectfully disagree.
Again, I'm not above liking villain protagonists or anti-heroes, it's just that I don't think Goku is a good one (post-Ginyu).
But then again, one man's trash is another's man's treasure... I like GT, after all, when everybody else seems to despise it.

It’s not a superhero story. It’s a martial arts story. Saving the world is often just the plot but it’s not the story You see, this is where I disagree with Toriyama's statements. He definitely didn't plan Dragon Ball to be a superhero story, but he did consciously or subconsciously build it like t...

fair enough but abhor? That’s a pretty strong stance to take for a story with a giant bubble gum monster named after a Disney song lyric. I'll give it this about the Majin Boo Saga: I do enjoy the mini-arc where Gohan goes to high school and engages with super hero shenanigans, and develops a relat...

The stakes are only higher bc the level of power but it’s the same characters. While that was what happened in the Piccolo arc he is capable of destroying the world If you don’t like the protagonists, what do you enjoy about DB? I enjoy Dragon Ball up to Early Namek. After the Ginyu Force shows up,...

If I remember correctly, Toriyama didn't come up with Ultra Instinct, the anime staff did.

Goku told The Rabbit Gang he would spare their lives if Boss Rabbit changed Bulma back Goku was willing to spare Tao's life when Tao begged for it until Tao tried to betray him Both of these were before he even went to the Heavenly Realm. Being naive and forgiving in spite of his at times blood thi...

Freeza was on a deserted planet that was about to blow up. Cell was still on earth. There is a distinction worth acknowledging and not just dismissing as some sort or inconsistency. Except... "There, I gave you some energy. Find a spaceship and get out of this planet!" And if Goku's point...