Kanzenshuu

Dragon Ball Super happens with different forms...that's literally the only thing this change would do. That's why I'm gonna focus on how I would handle Goku and Vegeta's rivalry instead.

Super Saiyan God would no longer be permanent until the Tournament of Power . As Yuji (I think) pointed out ...

Yuji wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 7:22 am So if Gohan had no self-doubt and fought at full power in Super Saiyan, would he win??

Gohan was already at full power in Super Saiyan, and the narrative has more than demonstrated he couldn't do it without SS2.

Sparking Zero's Ultimate Edition

Might as well put up a quick reminder for the question's sake:

GT introduced the Black Star Dragon Balls.

Super introduced Super Dragon Balls.

Super (manga) introduced the Cerealian Dragon Balls.

Daima introduced the Demon Realm Dragon Balls.

Is it impressive enough to warrant the label of being the strongest being in Z? I'm not quite as sure.

In the first movie it took a single powered up Ssj1 to defeat him, while in the second movie it took two Ssj2s as well as Goten and Trunks. That's quite the jump in power, so how much stronger ...

He's the strongest because he keeps coming back and have the vibe of being an undefeatable threat that was only defeated because multiple people needed to be involved for it to happen.

Or at least, that's likely the logic Koyama's operating under.


Even then, Super Janemba required a fusion to ...

He Calls him the strongest in Z. We know it's not true. Especially when the anime scaling always puts the next guys stronger. Discuss.


Guy who wrote all the Z movies says Broli is the strongest

>well he's wrong


Seems like we kind of have to "Word of God" it here. Nothing really outright ...

Kid Broly (DBS) on Vampa vs Kid Gohan (Saiyan arc)
M8 restrained SS Broly vs CG SS Gohan
DBS Ikari Broly vs ToP Ultimate Gohan


1. Gohan one-shots with Masenko.

2. Gohan one-shots even harder. Broly's feats are comparable to that of Perfect Cell (vs Vegeta) at best, and Gohan should be far ...

Koitsukai wrote: Sat Mar 08, 2025 12:21 pm Buu saga Piccolo vs LSS Broly (M8)

Seven years after being weaker than the Cell Jrs., has he gotten to the point of being able to beat Broly's 1st coming?

Piccolo is inferior to Shin and the Super Saiyan kids. Broly wins.

GT's the only actual sequel. It wins by default

Now if I stop being cheeky and reframe the question as "better series", I'll have to say Super (anime and manga) > Daima > GT.

dragon boss z wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 10:11 pm Super Shenron if you want to continue this PM me or start a new threat, but I think this argument has been argued to completion imo.

I think so too. Best to agree to disagree.

Hellspawn28 wrote: Wed Mar 05, 2025 4:54 pm Had Goku use SSj4 (Toriyama version) against Buuhan, how strong would he be?

While Boohan is stronger than Goku, he isn't to the point a whole transformation wouldn't change anything, especially if you go by the fact BoG and Super established him as the strongest Z-Fighter.

Goku stomps.

Kid Buu's power level did probably go down, but only because his power was hidden. We see with Fat Buu his power spikes when angry.

It probably goes

suppressed Kid Buu<Super Buu<Buff Buu<=>full power kid Buu

I think you are confused, Toriyama forgetting is not needed for Kid Buu>Super Buu, only ...

Redemption being the act of improving morally or saving oneself from evil, it would imply there's such a thing as being too bad to deserve a shot at becoming a better person. I don't think so. What I think is that there are few people as evil as Raditz who would show actual efforts in repenting or ...

I mean, it is pretty damning evidence. We're talking about a battle crazy Saiyan who usually wouldn't turn down an opportunity to fight strong opponents one-on-one, practically crapping bricks at the idea of taking Super Boo on by himself, to the point he condemns Vegeta for destroying their ...

Even in the manga Buu's ki was stated to be going up, not down, when going from Super Buu to kid Buu. Saying it was only for Buff Buu is cope since that Buu never fights and it would be pointless to hype that form up.

You bring up Occam's razor but this is a perfect case for Occam's razor ...

Boo Saga Goku is worse than he's ever been in Super/GT/Daima. First he holds back against Vegeta for no good reason knowing full well he was guaranteed to take damage, which releases Boo into the wild. He then holds back again so he can leave the responsibility to kill Boo to Piccolo and two kids ...