Kanzenshuu

Yeah, I had very little wiggle room in terms of power levels pre-Z. I guess just assume that in the five year timeskip to Z, people relaxed more and failed to make significant breakthroughs in their training? One way you could make the pre-Z section work is to interpret the scouter numbers from the...

That's fair, but that's less a problem with the form itself (which was created for an anime film), and more with Toyble's presentation of it. Odd that the aura's shape is distinct in the color-filled medium it was designed for, but the person placing it in a black-and-white medium decided to replac...

I don't think Future Trunks at the beginning of the Android arc should even be stronger than SSJ Goku was on Namek because Future Gohan almost certainly wouldn't have been stronger than his father, Trunks likely not surpassing Future Gohan as well. I believe that 150,000,000 was the cap for the Z S...

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan does have a uniquely-shaped aura, though. https://i0.wp.com/www.comicon.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/DBS-128-3a.jpg?resize=660%2C330 Not in the manga it doesn't, which I think is what Kaboom was referring to. Toyotaro saves the full fancy plasma-aura for SSB Evolved ...

Geraldo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:42 pm If we follow GT's line of transforming then we have:
Golden Great Ape - 500x base
Super Saiyan 4 - 750x base
Super Saiyan 4 (Full Power) - 800x base

Considering how Super Saiyan 4 Goku stacks up against Oozaru Baby, wouldn't it have to at least be ten times stronger than Super Saiyan 3?

I think if I bumped the humans' post-Kaio levels up to where the anime indicates they're at (firmly beyond the Ginyu Force, sans Ginyu himself), I might be able to justify them being in the low millions when #19 and #20 show up to myself. Them being in the tens of millions is still too much for my c...

The same way Freeza and 17 became Blue level out of nowhere. Plot. Offering up two of the most egregious examples of unjustified power growth from a show that already has a reputation for nonsensical power scaling isn't gonna make it easier to swallow the idea that the Earthlings got massively stro...

I always thought it made no sense for the humans to get tens of times stronger while Goku couldn’t even double his power. But I don’t think anybody wants to give that sort of small improvement to them, and training gains never made sense anyways. Who knows what the humans were up to. Who knows, may...

How strong are the Z Fighters by the time of Freeza and Cold’s arrival? I haven't done a full battle power list in a while, I suppose I could ballpark it. Chaozu - 15,000 Yamcha - 30,000 Tenshinhan - 54,000 Kuririn - 100,000 (Using the gains Goku made on Kaio's Planet as a baseline, this is where e...

But 19 and 20 are also Artificial Humans. All five of them are being grouped together and noted to be stronger than past foes. It could be referring to #19 and #20 in a general sense rather than specifically the level they start out at. Regardless of whether or not they're beyond Freeza when they f...

Yeah, I leafed through my Dragon Books, and I'm not seeing anything that directly says No.19 and No.20 are specifically stronger than Freeza or the pre-Timeskip Super Saiyans. I think I'm gonna stick with my old assumption that they didn't start encroaching on that territory until after they started...

Is there any direct evidence that Androids #19 and #20 are actuality stronger than Freeza and the pre-time skip Super Saiyans? They're whole point in the narrative is to lull the gang into a false sense of security before the real Androids show up and iirc, Vegeta or Piccolo say they don't seem as s...

Trunks did it against Freeza. Trunks went straight to Super Saiyan against Freeza. Unless you're referring to the brief second or two in the anime's transformation sequence where his hair was spiked up but hadn't shifted to yellow (and I think I've made myself clear that I don't really consider cre...

Vegeta actually overwhelmed Broly when he got that yellow aura. Unlike that green hair thing I think the purpose is clear here. I would guess that it was just a creative way of showing Vegeta powering up or something. If memory serves, Gogeta had a similar looking aura when they first fused. I cert...

Vegeta seems to tap into Super Saiyan Essence while fighting Broly. He has a yellow lining around his body but his hair is still black, he seems to power up mightily while still not transforming fully into a Super Saiyan. You're free to interpret it however you like, but I seriously doubt the yello...

Also, as mentioned above, the Saiyans use two base powers. One taps into SSJ, the other does not. Couple things about the two-base theory. 1. There is zero evidence whatsoever that the Saiyans can access part of their Super Saiyan power without transforming, not counting a last-minute hasty animati...

Mireya wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:38 pm SSj is a 4x boost to me.

So is Kaioken x 10 a 1.5 boost, then?

Now there's a lot to unpack here and I'll be here to answer any of the potential issues, most which are easily explainable. I believe this is truly an interesting day, the day the source material actually numerically rejects the idea of Super Saiyan being a 50x boost. The biggest issues I have with...

Iirc that particular detail is only in the manga. Probably doesn't apply to the animated version. The multipliers are the same in the anime, manga, and movies. You're thinking of the stamina drain that drops their power below 10%. Even though blue drains stamina in the anime it's never stated how m...

It wouldn't be 50,000 because Ssb isn't 50× Ssg, since 10% of blue is weaker than Ssg. If the distance between the two forms were 50× then blue would have to be at 1% to be weaker than Ssg. The distance is more like 5×. Plus, base form fusion is still stronger than both Ssg and blue so their multip...