"(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

[Darkseid]

I don't think Zamasu is a master manipulator... Goku is just naive and Gowasu didn't want to see Zamasu's true face because he had a deep trust in him.

Actually, does Zamasu even manipulate either? He was pretty open about his ideals with Gowasu

No he doesn´t. He stays in the role of trusted apprentice until he kills Gowasu but thats about it. After that he is open about his goals and motives.

[SupremeKai25]

Zamasu is a master manipulator. He was able to deceive Goku and Gowasu so easily.

I don't think that really counts as evidence for Zamasu being a master manipulator.

Maybe, still he is willing to use such tactics if it suits his plans, such as when he put on a fake smile and tried to look like a good apprentice when Beerus and co. visited Gowasu to protect him. I am certain that he is doing the same thing here, trying to look like a trustworthy ally, while in reality he plots to backstab Hearts and become the sole ruler of the cosmos once Zeno is gone.

[sunsetshimmer]

I really wish Cumber was dead now. Did they really have to rescue him? We saw enough of this boring character. They will go for Jiren right? Imagine Cumber vs Jiren. Boring fight of two most boring antagonists in franchise. Only Broly is missing here (please don't include him in this story, please don't).

I still wonder why would Kamin & Oren even work with guys like Zamasu unless they just teamed up because of common goal and could plan on infecting and controlling them later. Defeating Zeno isn't easy for sure so you need ANY help. I mean it would be dope to see Baby Vegito Black one day but honestly Baby would rather make Goku Black fuse with Vegeta and just infect Vegito to get full control. This is the same race so cooperating or trusting anyone from inferior race probably isn't their thing.

[mahakaishin1991]

I really wish Cumber was dead now. Did they really have to rescue him? We saw enough of this boring character. They will go for Jiren right? Imagine Cumber vs Jiren. Boring fight of two most boring antagonists in franchise. Only Broly is missing here (please don't include him in this story, please don't).

I still wonder why would Kamin & Oren even work with guys like Zamasu unless they just teamed up because of common goal and could plan on infecting and controlling them later. Defeating Zeno isn't easy for sure so you need ANY help. I mean it would be dope to see Baby Vegito Black one day but honestly Baby would rather make Goku Black fuse with Vegeta and just infect Vegito to get full control. This is the same race so cooperating or trusting anyone from inferior race probably isn't their thing.

Speak for yourself. I'm happy Cumber's sticking around because he feels like he's ironic parody, and his design is the first I've liked from a saiyan in a while. Hes a big dumb brute and I dont mind that.

I dont think Zamasu is the ring leader, but I would love to see a what if Goku turn up to fight him thats the Zamasu body version: power pole and nimbus together

[Steven Bloodriver]

I really wish Cumber was dead now. Did they really have to rescue him? We saw enough of this boring character. They will go for Jiren right? Imagine Cumber vs Jiren. Boring fight of two most boring antagonists in franchise. Only Broly is missing here (please don't include him in this story, please don't).

I still wonder why would Kamin & Oren even work with guys like Zamasu unless they just teamed up because of common goal and could plan on infecting and controlling them later. Defeating Zeno isn't easy for sure so you need ANY help. I mean it would be dope to see Baby Vegito Black one day but honestly Baby would rather make Goku Black fuse with Vegeta and just infect Vegito to get full control. This is the same race so cooperating or trusting anyone from inferior race probably isn't their thing.

You are not the only one here who had wanted Kanba to have been killed-off by one of the heroes, the heroine, or even by the hands of another villain, such as like having Son Goku and Vegeta not being so reliant on their ordinary Super Saiyan Blue forms as per usual and had actually used their brains more often than they ever had by having Son Goku go into his Super Saiyan Blue: 20X Kaioken and Vegeta busting-out his equally as powerful Beyond Super Saiyan Blue right when Fu (Base Form) would have shown himself to the two Saiyans, Shin, Whis, and Future Mai on Beerus' Planet. Right before, a furious Super Saiyan Blue: 20X Kaioken Son Goku would have unleashed his Instant Transmission and Dragon Fist upon Fu (Base Form) and an equally furious Beyond Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta would have carbonized the remains of Fu (Base Form). With the Maniacal Millennial who had kidnapped Future Trunks now taken care of, SSGSS: 20X Kaioken Son Goku would have used his Instant Transmission technique to go and find Future Trunks on the Prison Planet before returning a moment later with the son of Vegeta in question. Then, with a quick call to one of the two Omni-Kings, and another to the Grand Priest, the Prison Planet and all but one of it's imprisoned inhabitants would have been erased from existence, with the sole exception of Kanba, who would have transported by the father of Whis right to the doorstep of Mahakaishin1991. Only to make his way back to go and pick up Kanba a month later.

[BrolyKale]

I really wish Cumber was dead now. Did they really have to rescue him? We saw enough of this boring character. They will go for Jiren right? Imagine Cumber vs Jiren. Boring fight of two most boring antagonists in franchise. Only Broly is missing here (please don't include him in this story, please don't).

I still wonder why would Kamin & Oren even work with guys like Zamasu unless they just teamed up because of common goal and could plan on infecting and controlling them later. Defeating Zeno isn't easy for sure so you need ANY help. I mean it would be dope to see Baby Vegito Black one day but honestly Baby would rather make Goku Black fuse with Vegeta and just infect Vegito to get full control. This is the same race so cooperating or trusting anyone from inferior race probably isn't their thing.

Speak for yourself. I'm happy Cumber's sticking around because he feels like he's ironic parody, and his design is the first I've liked from a saiyan in a while. Hes a big dumb brute and I dont mind that.

I dont think Zamasu is the ring leader, but I would love to see a what if Goku turn up to fight him thats the Zamasu body version: power pole and nimbus together

I also like Cumber... I don't know why those kind of characters get so much hate for no reason... Cumber is also an interesting character and there's so much to do with him and his past with Yamoshi and the SSJGod etc...

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Considering how fast Cumber got merchandise and how prominent he has been so far, I'd wager he's also decently popular with the Japanese fans. I like the guy too, simply because he is exactly what saiyans were supposed to be, making a nice contrast in modern DB where writers tend to bend over themselves to give every villain/adversary a possible reason to befriend Goku and the others.

The thing I got more intrigued by, was Goku Xeno seemingly being able to teleport at will between timelines and universes.

[Steven Bloodriver]

Considering how fast Cumber got merchandise and how prominent he has been so far, I'd wager he's also decently popular with the Japanese fans. I like the guy too, simply because he is exactly what saiyans were supposed to be, making a nice contrast in modern DB where writers tend to bend over themselves to give every villain/adversary a possible reason to befriend Goku and the others.

The thing I got more intrigued by, was Goku Xeno seemingly being able to teleport at will between timelines and universes.

Perhaps he had mastered his Instant Transmission technique to the point it would allow for such a thing to be possible? Or he may have learned the Kai Kai technique?

[sunsetshimmer]

Cumber being boring af is one thing.

But this guy survived fights against:
-SSJB Kaioken Vegito
-SSJ4 Vegito
-Ultra Instinct Goku

Seriously? It's time to go.

[Majin Demigra]

Considering how fast Cumber got merchandise and how prominent he has been so far, I'd wager he's also decently popular with the Japanese fans. I like the guy too, simply because he is exactly what saiyans were supposed to be, making a nice contrast in modern DB where writers tend to bend over themselves to give every villain/adversary a possible reason to befriend Goku and the others.

The thing I got more intrigued by, was Goku Xeno seemingly being able to teleport at will between timelines and universes.

In Xenoverse Goku does it all the time, and Goku Xeno in UMX does too

[mahakaishin1991]

I also like Cumber... I don't know why those kind of characters get so much hate for no reason... Cumber is also an interesting character and there's so much to do with him and his past with Yamoshi and the SSJGod etc...

People be like 'he boring' 'he lame' 'he big dumb brute who need to die.'

Firstly, he's a game villain with limited dialogue and time on screen compared to others, but he's a perfect rep of how saiyans are described to be. Dude has this Akuma vibe from Street Fighter of a force of nature that I love. None of the saiyan survivors really captured that because (Raditz the coward, Vegeta being royalty and honour bound, Goku being Goku and Nappa having genuine concerns for his comrades). In fact, Cumber stands out among the more recent saiyan additions because he feels like the old legendary super saiyan personified when contrasted with U6 newcomers, even furthered by his revival of the Golden Oozaru and beastly nature.

I hope he sticks around in the games for a while like Towa and Mira, along with the others in his crew. Dude's not getting into the main canon from what we can see, so let him stay in he side stories. Heroes does stuff like this well, I'm so thankful they brought Majin Ozotto and the like back.

[mahakaishin1991]

I suspect this arc's multi universe thing is a way to factor in cards we didnt get from the TOP. We just got a new kefla and hit without his dress. Since we're going Universe 11 next I hope we get GoD Toppo

[Rakurai]

FINALLY it felt like eternity waiting to find out just who these mysterious artificial beings were.

Interesting how they turned out to be the U6 Machine Mutant counterparts, great way to combine elements of both GT & Super.

I'm also of the stance to keep Cumber. He's far better at what he does than new Broly himself, and there's potential for his history to be explored. He's super strong, he strikes this sense of uncertainty and tension to the story, he's just like prime model of what a Saiyan should be, he's what we need to spice things up.

The plan to overthrow the hierarchy of the multiverse? Hell yes, this needed to be done and it's about goddamn time.

Don't really care about Zamasu's return tbh. I never really liked his shtick to begin with.

Also, thanks Cipher for doing Kami's work. I can understand it takes time and we really do appreciate what you do for translations nowadays.

[Noitsnothim]

Massive summary and translation dump (wipes brow):


Episode 8 - "Zamasu Revived?! The Curtain Rises on the Universal Conflict Arc!" summary

Spoiler:

Arriving on Beerus' planet without Goku, Trunks and the others bid farewell to Goku: Xeno and Vegeta: Xeno, who teleport off-world. As soon as they leave, the Kaiōshin of Universe 6 runs toward Trunks and the others in panic: Universe 6 is currently being invaded by an unknown enemy! Vegeta asks what happened to their God of Destruction. The Kaiōshin says that he attempted to call Champa and the other Gods of Destruction to the Omni-King's realm, but has been unable to get through. Vegeta announces his intention to confront the new enemies directly, saying he feels like cutting loose.

In Universe 6, Hit, Caulifla, Kale, and Cabba face a difficult battle against Kamin and Oren, twin artificial lifeforms (bearing more than a passing resemblance to Baby). Oren expresses disappointment over the power of Caulifla and Kale, and Kamin offers to trade opponents and allow him to fight Hit. Oren is amused by Hit's power, but is able get the advantage, even overcoming Hit's Time-Skip, saying he has been "input" with information about him. Kamin, meanwhile, expresses her own disappointment over Caulifla's and Kale's attacks.

Universe 6's warriors continue to fight back, but Kamin and Oren recover from their previous damage instantaneously and overwhelm their opponents with their Crash Break and Smash Break attacks. Vegeta and Trunks arrive, deflecting blasts aimed at Hit. Kamin hopes the new warriors can at least provide some entertainment.

Observing the battle from a separate location via a mysterious cube, a man dressed in a dark coat and bearing an "X"-shaped scar across his chest states he had intended to save Universe 7 for later. A second figure, Zamasu, emerges from the shadows and indicates his recognition of Trunks and Vegeta. The man with the "X"-shaped scar orders Zamasu to wait until they can defeat the Omni-King.

On the battlefield, Vegeta and Trunks successfully drive Kamin and Oren back with their initial attacks. Kamin is happy that the two seem like fun. Oren declares that things have gotten interesting. He asks Kamin if the two of them should do their thing, and they assume battle stances. Vegeta asks what the two of them are planning.

SDBH official site "Story" page translation (contains several new details for the arc, and at least one bit on Fu's goals that seemingly contradicts the take the anime gave him last episode, but -shrug-):

Spoiler:

Story: Universal Conflict Arc

“The battles of the Prison Planet were merely the prelude. A powerful new enemy, the ‘Core Area’ warriors, make their move!”

The “Core Area” made its appearance on the brink of the Prison Planet’s collapse.

Within the center of this mysterious, dazzling red area is the “Universe Seed,” which hides enough power to birth a universe.

Through his experiments on the Prison Planet, Fu funneled energy into this “Universe Seed" in the hopes of forging a new universe, but in the end, he couldn’t bring his goal to fruition.

With Zamasu appearing just before the Prison Planet’s explosion, it seems the strongest and most evil warriors of the Prison Planet were sealed within this interred “Core Area”!

The seal came undone with the collapse of the Prison Planet, releasing the warriors of the “Core Area” into the universe to enact their plan of overthrowing all of the gods...!

Unprecedented battles with existence itself on the line are set to unfold between strongest warriors of each universe and the ultimate evil of the “Core Area” warriors!

And, what is the fate of Goku, who managed to activate Ultra Instinct and defeat Cumber, but was caught in the explosion of the Prison Planet...?

SDBH official site "Core Area" character bio translations:

Spoiler:

Poster text: “We will overthrow all the gods!”

Hearts
Voice: Takehito Koyasu
Has the ability to read minds, which he uses to manage the warriors of the Core Area. Plans to use the “Universe Seed,” which has enough energy to birth a universe, to overthrow the Omni-King. His reasons for doing so remain unclear.
Note: The wording for “read minds” here could literally be interpreted as "read hearts" in Japanese, which may indicate intentional wordplay with his name.

Kamin
Voice: Minami Tsuda
An artificial lifeform from Universe 6. Oren’s twin sister. Has the abilities of regeneration, parasitism, mind-control, etc. Overwhelms warriors through her extraordinary combinations with Oren.

Oren
Voice: Yuta Kasuya
An artificial lifeform from Universe 6. Kamin’s twin brother. Possesses the same abilities as Kamin. Enjoys battles simple-mindedly and is the owner of enough power to rival Hit.

Cumber
Voice: Rikiya Koyama
A Saiyan who was sealed in the Core Area. Using his overwhelming power, he broke free of his seal and ran loose on the Prison Planet, tormenting Goku and the others. He was defeated by Goku, who had awakened Ultra Instinct, but his whereabouts afterward remain unknown.

???
A warrior of the Core Area. Details unknown.

Merged Zamasu
Voice: Shinichiro Miki
A former Kaioshin candidate from Universe 10. He was captured by Fu and interned within the Core Area. Aligned on the goal of overthrowing the Omni-King, he works together with Hearts. However, his true goal behind doing so remains unclear.

Additional "Core Area" character blurb from the character overview page:

Spoiler:

"The most evil warriors, who were sealed in the nucleus of the Prison Planet, the 'Core Area.' They raid Universe 6, and champion the overthrow of the Omni-King."

And last but not least, a summary of the entire first campaign of the Universal Conflict arc in the arcade game, using footage from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI3Z2HsjYpI

Spoiler:

Vegeta says that if the seal on the Prison Planet was broken, Goku will probably return using teleportation.

Whis offers to take everyone back to Earth, and Kaioshin says he’ll join them.

Whis prepares to drop everyone off on Earth, but notices a strange signal.

Enter Zamasu, cackling. Trunks is shocked because he’s certain Zamasu was defeated before. He asks what he’s doing here.

“That isn’t information you need to know. I’d relish in erasing you all by my own hands right now, but...”

Oren butts in to say they look strong. He wonders aloud to Kamin if they’ll “play” with them.

Kamin says the look like a good way to kill time. They’re going to wipe them away.

Hearts interrupts to say that Trunks and co. won’t offer substantial energy yet. It would be more efficient to save them for later.

Oren says that the same species as these guys (Saiyans, obviously) exist in their home universe, so why not make them the next target.

Zamasu: “Don’t you order me around, mortal...!”

Vegeta asks what their goals are. Hearts says that even if he knows their plans, he won’t be able to stop them. They plan to use the “Universe Seed” to overthrow all the gods: Kaioshin, Gods of Destruction, Zen’ou. Doesn’t that sound interesting? Now, if Vegeta will excuse him, he’s in a hurry.

Vegeta is overwhelmed by Hearts’ ki, then struck by the realization that Oren was talking about the Saiyans of Universe 6. He asks Whis to take him there.

Whis says he can’t accompany Vegeta. All of the Gods of Destruction and angels have been summoned by Zen’ou. Kaioshin offers to take things from there. Trunks will go too.

Vegeta arrives in Universe 6 on Planet Sadala.

Oren is surprised to see he followed them, but he’s a little too late. They’ve already taken control of everyone on the planet!

Vegeta asks what he means, and Kamin says he’ll probably figure it out by looking. Cabba is with them, and attacks Vegeta along with Kamin, Oren and other Saiyans.

Vegeta defeats his attackers and calls for Cabba to shake it off. Cabba comes to his senses and asks Vegeta what he’s doing there. Vegeta says he came because he heard Universe 6 was in danger.

Cabba says in hilariously clunky dialogue that those two are "apparently twin artificial lifeforms built by the people of Planet Tsufru!” They parasitically invaded and controlled the Saiyans one by one! Why are they trying to destroy the mortals of Universe 6?

Vegeta says he understands the situation. He’ll take care of those twins, along with Zamasu and this Hearts guy.

Vegeta challenges Kamin and Oren again. He says he heard they’re from Universe 6, so why have they joined forces with Zamasu and co. to destroy it?

Kamin says she’ll let Vegeta know so he can rest peacefully in the afterlife. The Tsufruians of Universe 6 built them to be the strongest artificial lifeforms. However, their strength was more than the humans could handle, and the humans tried to destroy them. She can’t forgive that! How dare they do something like that!

That’s why she and Oren decided to destroy the humans together.

Oren says that’s enough talk. The two fight Vegeta again.

After Vegeta's victory, Zamasu spots him. “There you are... This time, I'll erase you all!”

Trunks is in awe of Zamasu’s ki. There’s no comparison to how he was before. Kefla steps up to the plate. She’s going to take on Zamasu.

Zamasu is surprised by her strength and says it looks like he’ll have to get serious. Kefla decides it’s the end of the line for her, and Hit arrives to ask her to leave the rest to him.

Vegeta is relieved(!!) Hit’s stepped in to help. Together they’ll defeat Zamasu and Hearts!

After their battle, Hearts says it looks like they’ve gathered all the energy they can for now. They may have had to ruin Universe 6, but he promises it was a necessary sacrifice to achieve true freedom for all humanity.

Enraged, Vegeta has one more go at Zamasu, Kamin and Oren.

The battle finished, Hearts says that now their business is truly concluded. He tells Zamasu he understands his desire to rampage, but there are twelve universes in all. They can take their time destroying them. Kamin and Oren also did quite well. For the first phase, things are going splendidly. Now, shall they go to the next universe?

He calls out to Hit: “You over there. Who is the strongest man in all the universes?”

Hit grunts.

Hearts: “Hm. So, you think the strongest man in all the universes is Jiren of Universe 11, huh?”

Hit: “You...! You read my mind?!”

Hearts: “Jiren... I’m looking forward to finding out which one of us is stronger...”

Hearts vanishes. Trunks is panicked. At this rate, another universe is going to be ruined!

Vegeta calls to Trunks: “We’re going to Universe 11!”

Okay WOW I don't know if I'm the only one who was reeled in and felt the intensity of the story through the dialogue, the story's main objective is complex "Overthrow The Omni Kings" But they way the writing for this arc is going is incredibly done and well paced (at least in the Manga and Arcade versions) Promo Anime is skewed BUT could be better if the episodes were 15-20 mins so they could flesh out the fight sequences, it's incredible that even here they hail Jiren as the one above not just one god but all the gods of destruction which makes me happy cause Jiren was incredible in both adaptations of T.O.P whether it be Anime or Manga and thus could possibly confirm my speculation that NuBroly (Toriyama's Revamped version of Broly) isn't stronger than Jiren but could be potentially be the strongest mortal in his universe due to his destructive power!

I hope this continues to get better and Crazier! (God no Ribrianne PLEASE) I'm digging the Sinister Six Type vibes/League of Villains vibe from these "Core Area" Warriors it's neat and fresh (IMO) I can't wait for this Saga's story to progress!

[Lord Beerus]

I'm not gonna lie... the premise that Super Dragon Ball Heroes has going for it right now -- with a Sinister Six like group plotting to overthrow Zeno -- sounds incredibly interesting. I just very little faith in the manga or arcade version of Super Dragon Ball Heroes doing that kind of storyline any justice.

[Steven Bloodriver]

I'm not gonna lie... the premise that Super Dragon Ball Heroes has going for it right now -- with a Sinister Six like group plotting to overthrow Zeno -- sounds incredibly interesting. I just very little faith in the manga or arcade version of Super Dragon Ball Heroes doing that kind of storyline any justice.

Hopefully, they succeed in at least dethroning the Omni-Kings, as those two murderous manchildren are even worse than any other child-like pair of Serial Killers from the rest of fiction.

[MKCSTEALTH]

I imagine those two machine mutant twins either combining together or pulling a Baby and possessing either Cumber or our new scarfaced character to make an ultimate foe. Very, very excited to see how things go with this new storyline. Between this and the Super Manga, Dragonball stories have not had me this intrigued since the beginning days of the Goku Black Arc

[Steven Bloodriver]

I imagine those two machine mutant twins either combining together or pulling a Baby and possessing either Cumber or our new scarfaced character to make an ultimate foe. Very, very excited to see how things go with this new storyline. Between this and the Super Manga, Dragonball stories have not had me this intrigued since the beginning days of the Goku Black Arc

The Tuffle Twins might try possessing Vegeta and Future Trunks from Dragon Ball Super, as a reference to Baby doing the very same thing to Vegeta from Dragon Ball GT and later to the Present Trunks also seen in Dragon Ball GT from one of the God Missions of the incredibly popular Dragon Ball Heroes Game.

[mahakaishin1991]

I'm not gonna lie... the premise that Super Dragon Ball Heroes has going for it right now -- with a Sinister Six like group plotting to overthrow Zeno -- sounds incredibly interesting. I just very little faith in the manga or arcade version of Super Dragon Ball Heroes doing that kind of storyline any justice.

Why something like this isnt in the anime is mind boggling

[Rakurai]

I'm not gonna lie... the premise that Super Dragon Ball Heroes has going for it right now -- with a Sinister Six like group plotting to overthrow Zeno -- sounds incredibly interesting. I just very little faith in the manga or arcade version of Super Dragon Ball Heroes doing that kind of storyline any justice.

Why something like this isnt in the anime is mind boggling

I thought this was obvious. If it's not from the mind of Toriyama then it's not canon and presumably most fans won't like it. Or so that's how Shueisha thinks given their heavy marketing of the concept of official canon.

And Toriyama's ideas are incredibly lackluster, sometimes conservative.