Do U hate it when DBZ symbolizes rock/metal in oth.countries

[EXBadguy]

Sorry, I had to write the title like this becuz of the space.

Anyway, I ask this again, How much do yall hate it when DBZ symobolizes rock and metal in other countries? Like Rock the Dragon, the american soundtracks for Movies 3-8 and 10, and in some games. I just wanna know, cuz one, I know it bothers some people here by liking Kikuchi better and saying the "It doesn't fit the DB sprit" line, and two, it's Kanzenshuu, where people like the underrated and orchestraic(I made the word up) stuff.

For me, it doesn't bother me one bit. I actually thought DBZ nailed that symbolization, cuz it has crazy and over-the-top fights, powering up, and screaming. It nailed it pretty well. I imagine Majin Vegeta's theme being a dark hard metal song.

[Valerius Dover]

Well, I'm pretty open minded to different interpretations, so I don't have any problem with it.

However, Movie 3 does not have rock music, does it?

[90sDBZ]

I've always felt rock/metal is well suited to DBZ. And it's not just Funimation's doing. The Kenji Yamamoto music from the games uses plenty of rock but doesn't seem to get the criticism that Team Faulconer gets. And some of the insert songs in Kai also use Rock like 'Super Dragon Soul' and 'Only a Chilling Energy'. In fact 'Only a Chilling Energy' actually reminds me of some of the music Funi used in Movie 8.

I think the reason Funi get all the hate they do is more to do them with replacing the score in the first place than Rock/Metal not suiting DBZ. The video games get a free pass because that was their original score. Kai gets a free pass because it's technically not the same show as Z and Toei can do what they want because they made it.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Most if not all AMV's tend to use rock music too. I think it's fitting with Z, bit bummed the actual series didn't get a few rock songs. I was watching movie 8 yesterday and the rocking totally fit, IMO.

[DoomieDoomie911]

Rock just doesn't fit Dragon Ball. I can see why some people would rather watch it that way, but that just doesn't feel like Dragon Ball to me.

[SaiyanZ]

Not too much, but Kikuchi's score does make use of guitar and synth music (I believe thats the case in Hikari no Will Power). I only really liked Faulconer's score towards the Majin Buu arc. The rock music is 50/50 with me; I like his "SSj3 powerup" theme but I hate his "Destruction" theme. Some work, and other's don't. All imo ofc

[TheGmGoken]

Most if not all AMV's tend to use rock music too. I think it's fitting with Z, bit bummed the actual series didn't get a few rock songs. I was watching movie 8 yesterday and the rocking totally fit, IMO.

It's most not all. The reason we amv editors use rock song is because the lyrics fits and quite frankly easier to edit to because the beat in the music. The whole sound of the music gives us that impact feel and gets us pumped. It's way easier IMO to edit to rock. However when I'm not editing to rock I tend to use Emotional sad songs to make some of my best amvs. Though I guess you can classify them as rock. I also use to do rap and R&B but stop for copyright reasons.

[cRookie_Monster]

Not too much, but Kikuchi's score does make use of guitar and synth music (I believe thats the case in Hikari no Will Power). I only really liked Faulconer's score towards the Majin Buu arc. The rock music is 50/50 with me; I like his "SSj3 powerup" theme but I hate his "Destruction" theme. Some work, and other's don't. All imo ofc

Just an FYI: Destruction was out of place for me too, and I wrote and performed it! I thought it was laughably over heavy, but it was what Funimation wanted for Trunks and was our 3rd try at pleasing them. Originally we had sent them music based on the "Heroic Trunks" theme (like Episodic Trunks, Frieza's Death, or Heroic Trunks itself)

The Buu arc was largely Julius Dobos' work, but of course he probably has his own stories about Funimation requests vs his better judgement. It happens.

[Valerius Dover]

Just an FYI: Destruction was out of place for me too, and I wrote and performed it! I thought it was laughably over heavy, but it was what Funimation wanted for Trunks and was our 3rd try at pleasing them. Originally we had sent them music based on the "Heroic Trunks" theme (like Episodic Trunks, Freeza's Death, or Heroic Trunks itself)

The Buu arc was largely Julius Dobos' work, but of course he probably has his own stories about Funimation requests vs his better judgement. It happens.

I actually like Destruction. Sure, it was used a lot in the Cell arc, but made very scene it played in awesome!
The only placement that I thought was on the odd side was when Trunks showed Goku his Super Saiyan form. I saw Coycoy's recreation of the slicing scene in question, and I actually like both placements a lot. They're both very different interpretations. So, I haven't heard Heroic Trunks even once in the actual series (I'm assuming it never pops up in the Buu arc) and I really wonder why it had to be removed completely. Heard Episodic Trunks at Goku's sacrifice, but that was it.

Also, HUGE fan of your work, by the way!

[SaiyanZ]

Not too much, but Kikuchi's score does make use of guitar and synth music (I believe thats the case in Hikari no Will Power). I only really liked Faulconer's score towards the Majin Buu arc. The rock music is 50/50 with me; I like his "SSj3 powerup" theme but I hate his "Destruction" theme. Some work, and other's don't. All imo ofc

Just an FYI: Destruction was out of place for me too, and I wrote and performed it! I thought it was laughably over heavy, but it was what Funimation wanted for Trunks and was our 3rd try at pleasing them. Originally we had sent them music based on the "Heroic Trunks" theme (like Episodic Trunks, Freeza's Death, or Heroic Trunks itself)

The Buu arc was largely Julius Dobos' work, but of course he probably has his own stories about Funimation requests vs his better judgement. It happens.

Very interesting; there were some tracks I liked before the Majin Buu arc also with the score. There was this one variation of the "Face-off" music I believe, but it was a Freeza remix. Something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqdajrtRzyE

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I think DBZ seems to be associated with Rock and Metal is simply because it goes with wild-action which DBZ is. I used to think it was mostly an American thing (which for the most part it is) but its just because Metal is fast and DBZ is fast, a lot more so faster than all the action shows we have, minus maybe Teen Titans to an extent. Then theres the fact that it draws kids in to our meaning of "badassary" a lot more so than the traditional Japanese, slower more robotic and sometimes generally softer tracks. It was marketing that made sense.

I dont hate it though, it does fit. Most people like it. The only people that attack it are the purists who find it disrespectful to the original creators, though I dont think it was. Toei had to have given permission to release the shows like that with altered audio. For reasons stated above and the argument of appealing to culture differences, I say it was necessary. It was not a bad experiences. The songs Funi chose for most of the movies fit well with the scenes, it wasnt just a slap-job like most AMVs, they edited it to cue when needed. (Broly / Slug Movies)
The only movie that I thought they messed up on was Cooler's revenge. The song they picked for it was just too obnoxious even for DBZ.
Though at least were out of that Linkin-Park / Green-Day phase of all the crappy low-res AMVs of 2005-2006. That I hated.

[EXBadguy]

Wow. Glad to see people said that it fitted. I thought all I was going to see was "F YOU America for fucking up a masterpiece" or "Don't you call me a weaboo. I hate it when they had to use rock, it's childish" or something like that.

[Ajay]

I guess I'll be that guy then.

No, I don't think it fits and I hate that there's such a profound association of the genre with the show. Dragon Ball is a martial arts adventure and will always have those roots firmly planted at the core of the show despite its transition into more sci-fi territory towards later parts of the series.

That mystical adventure never really leaves even in some of the more spacey parts though and I feel like that's often forgotten. Boo is essentially an evil genie, The ROSAT has magical properties, Cell's arena is literally a martial arts ring, the adventure to Namek is...well, an adventure to find the dragon balls. The music needs to reflect that key feeling throughout the series and the rock/metal tracks you speak of don't really do that.

As an aside - just today I saw someone post a legitimate breakdown of why they didn't feel the dub music worked with the show and someone simply replied 'well, now I just can't take you seriously'. It's just had a very damaging effect on the show's perception with many fans and that's a real damn shame.

It's certainly not all bad and Kikuchi himself included many tracks that were pretty 'rock' in nature. There's many Faulconer tracks that manage to successfully retain that sense of adventure and mysticism while also adhering the overall rocky sound that soundtrack has. It's certainly not Dragon Ball but at least is vaguely resembles the tone the scenes its placed to have.

The earlier portion of this track, while absolutely not to my tastes at all, undeniably manages to invoke the mystical nature of the ROSAT. Again, Kaioshin's theme gets the basic idea across too. Now I vehemently despise these tracks being used in the show but I'm not so close minded as to say they don't, at the very least, fit their purpose.

I just don't think it comes anywhere near close to what Kikuchi manages to produce. His work is orchestral but it's also punchy and upbeat enough to give you the intensity the fights from the series deserve.

That type of music is the series in a nutshell and I don't think US score really ever gets that. I think Yamamoto's efforts did an absolutely fantastic job of retaining the appropriate tone while also adding a modern twist that allows for a broader range of fans to enjoy. I'm certainly not ashamed to admit that, on a personal level, I find Yamamoto more pleasing to the ear at times than Kikuchi's work.

To cut it short, I guess; I just don't feel like the synth-based rock sounds of the dub are wholly appropriate for a show steeped in very classic mythology. I think the series needs the classic instruments found in orchestras. I think that's certainly an outlook that resonates with many fans considering the disdain for Sumitomo's efforts as the score moves away from orchestral into more synth-focused territory. It just doesn't work.

[KentalSSJ6]

As an aside - just today I saw someone post a legitimate breakdown of why they didn't feel the dub music worked with the show and someone simply replied 'well, now I just can't take you seriously'. It's just had a very damaging effect on the show's perception with many fans and that's a real damn shame.

Lemme guess. Youtube?

[theoriginalbilis]

Wow. Glad to see people said that it fitted. I thought all I was going to see was "F YOU America for fucking up a masterpiece" or "Don't you call me a weaboo. I hate it when they had to use rock, it's childish" or something like that.

May i ask... Why did you start the discussion topic if you were worried about others posting dissenting opinions?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

That mystical adventure never really leaves even in some of the more spacey parts though and I feel like that's often forgotten. Boo is essentially an evil genie, The ROSAT has magical properties, Cell's arena is literally a martial arts ring, the adventure to Namek is...well, an adventure to find the dragon balls.

True, but that adventure contains encounters more hopeless and dangerous than anything we've ever seen. Not to mention brutal. There's Vegeta and Freeza killing entire villages to gather the Dragon Balls. The whole thing borders on genocide. Then there's Krillin getting impaled by Freeza, probably the goriest thing in the entire series.


I agree that the Cell and Buu arcs have a lot more throwbacks to the first portion of the series, but the Freeza arc, and to a lesser extent the Saiyan arc, represent a very noticeable change in style and tone for the series. I'm not saying Kikuchi doesn't capture that. What I am saying is that I don't think you can say "Y doesn't fit Dragon Ball because Dragon Ball is X" when Dragon Ball undergoes this massive change to begin with.

[Valerius Dover]

What I have to wonder is why they kept the original score for Dragon Ball. Why didn't they bother with a replacement score the second time around there?

[theoriginalbilis]

What I have to wonder is why they kept the original score for Dragon Ball. Why didn't they bother with a replacement score the second time around there?

It was probably a combination of these two factors.

1) Money. One, they already tried to air original Dragon Ball (voiced by the Ocean/BLT cast) over here (with a replacement score, no less). Those first 13 episodes weren't successful, so they moved onto dubbing Z. Why waste money on a new score if you're just looking to get the new dub out quickly and as inexpensively as possible

2) Fans. Around the early 2000s. FUNimation was actually engaging the fans online quite a bit. No only did they have fans vote on what voices for Goku, Pilaf, and Shuu were going to be in the dub, but I remember them mentioning quite proudly on various websites and press releases that the are "using the original background music" for Dragon Ball. Perhaps this was them getting into good graces with many of the fans/anime consumers. Mostly every FUNi dub after DBZ has been done more faithfully to the source material. Even the DVD Saga Sets were very fan and consumer-friendly at the time (11-18 episodes per set, $40 MSRP, uncut audio tracks, subtitles, you name it.)

[Valerius Dover]

They voted on voices? That's pretty cool! I never knew that. That would explain why the characters you mentioned have different voices than in DB Movies 2-3. But then I wonder why DBGT was treated more like Z in this department.

[theoriginalbilis]

They voted on voices? That's pretty cool! I never knew that. That would explain why the characters you mentioned have different voices than in DB Movies 2-3.

Yep. DB Movies 2 & 3 were dubbed before they ever re-dubbed Dragon Ball TV or Movie 4.

But then I wonder why DBGT was treated more like Z in this department.

Simple. Z was always the most successful show out of the three, so FUNimation decided to take the style of GT and "re-version" it so it fit more with the style they set for DBZ. GT was originally a combination of the adventure/humor elements of Dragon Ball and the large-scale battles of DBZ. So... FUNimation tried to ramp up the action/fighting nature and tone down the humor/adventure aspect. That's why their initial TV and DVD releases skipped the first 16 episodes, and instead created a recap of those events as the "first" episode. So they could "get to the action" quicker.

They ended up making the tone of GT way darker than the original with their replacement score and the choice of narrator, which honestly doesn't jive with the colorful visuals on display. Instead, all their re-versioning creates is a somber, but rather uninteresting tone. IMO, it's way more boring than the original GT score.