Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
-
- Newbie
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:13 am
Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
I'm just curious. I frigging love it. I miss that bad boy/anti-hero music that plays whenever he is around.
Do some people hate it?
Do some people hate it?
- VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17547
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Are you referring to music from the Faulconer Productions replacement score in FUNimation's English dub?
It's probably... maybe... I guess...?... the closest approximation I can think of offhand to the original Kikuchi score in that it channels some more traditional instruments and melodies, but... it just doesn't work for me. Just like the rest of that score, it sounds totally hollow. I feel nothing from it.
(Moving this over to the "Music" sub-section of the forum.)
It's probably... maybe... I guess...?... the closest approximation I can think of offhand to the original Kikuchi score in that it channels some more traditional instruments and melodies, but... it just doesn't work for me. Just like the rest of that score, it sounds totally hollow. I feel nothing from it.
(Moving this over to the "Music" sub-section of the forum.)
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
- Soppa Saia People
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3062
- Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:26 pm
- Location: Minnesota
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
No matter what you like, someone else will hate it.
Also, the name "Hells Bells" annoys the fuck outta me. This isn't AC/DC.
Also, the name "Hells Bells" annoys the fuck outta me. This isn't AC/DC.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.
-
- Newbie
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:13 am
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Yes, I'm referring to the Faulconer music. That heavy metal music that plays whenever Vegeta's around.VegettoEX wrote:Are you referring to music from the Faulconer Productions replacement score in FUNimation's English dub?
It's probably... maybe... I guess...?... the closest approximation I can think of offhand to the original Kikuchi score in that it channels some more traditional instruments and melodies, but... it just doesn't work for me. Just like the rest of that score, it sounds totally hollow. I feel nothing from it.
(Moving this over to the "Music" sub-section of the forum.)
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Its not really heavy metal at all though.
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Yes but we don't talk about these people much. We just send Agent Smirnoff after them.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
- Jinzoningen MULE
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4405
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:33 pm
- Location: Salt Mines
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Yeah, definitely not heavy metal, it's a pretty light, synthy variant of rock, and no, I don't like it very much. That said, it's not too bad by Faulconer Score standards.
Retired.
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
That music is what literally made me love Vegeta forever, prior to that it was future Trunks and before that Gohan and Yamcha, never a Goku fan... Anyway I wish I could have that music play every time I walked into a room so everybody knew I was getting ready to F S up! I personally find it incredibly intimidating.
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1205
- Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:08 am
- Location: Earth
- Contact:
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Yep. I despise it. I had to skip most of Vegeta's scenes cause of that track while watching the FUNimation dub. Although, Sabat's beyond terrible acting is another reason, but that music just doesn't sound right.
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
It's a similar anachronism to the nu metal shit that was shoehorned into some of the earlier feature dubs. It simply doesn't fit with a product of the late 80's/early 90's--it sounds like it came straight out of the year 2000.
Thanos before Thanos was cool.
- DBZAOTA482
- Banned
- Posts: 6995
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
- Contact:
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
I love it.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Me tooDBZAOTA482 wrote:I love it.
- Fionordequester
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2873
- Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
And the old Kikuchi score sounds like it came from like, the 60's. But does that make it bad or unfitting? Not necessarily; so I don't know why we're using that logic to criticize this particular piece.Thanos wrote:It's a similar anachronism to the nu metal shit that was shoehorned into some of the earlier feature dubs. It simply doesn't fit with a product of the late 80's/early 90's--it sounds like it came straight out of the year 2000.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
- VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17547
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Dragon Ball's entire aesthetic is invoking the 60s/70s and therefore comes together as a cohesive package. When you strip out part of that and plop in an entirely different culture's musical aesthetic from after its creation, you wind up with a disjointed product out of time with no identity of its own.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
- Blade
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2262
- Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:45 pm
- Location: Contrary to popular belief, not on Kanzenshuu forums.
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Or a re-contextualised (Barry Watson era Funimation preferred 're-versioned', I believe) product for a new market. But I guess that depends on one's own product familiarity and which side of the Atlantic-fence you're looking-in from.VegettoEX wrote:When you strip out part of that and plop in an entirely different culture's musical aesthetic from after its creation, you wind up with a disjointed product out of time with no identity of its own.
I'd be more inclined to agree with that point of view from an artistic standpoint if the Dragonball anime had been conceptualised as a single cohesive package across modalities - but it hadn't. Kikuchi wasn't hired by Toriyama to write specific music in a specific tone, and he probably wasn't directed overly heavily by Toei either. He was already such an established composer at that time, and as we know, his mandate wasn't to underscore the moving images directly as a film composer would. So much of how his music was deployed was done by a third-party who was responsible for placement. Interestingly enough, I believe that Bruce and co didn't just build up stock banks and handle placement, I think they actually handled each episode sequentially (albeit on a horrendously hurried schedule).
But yeah, taste is subjective. To some people there will only ever one definitive version of the show - but I'm a little more open to coexistence than some, perhaps.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
- Fionordequester
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2873
- Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Alright. So if I'm getting you right, you believe that 60's animation needs 60's music to accompany it; or that 90's animation needs 90's music to accompany it.VegettoEX wrote:Dragon Ball's entire aesthetic is invoking the 60s/70s and therefore comes together as a cohesive package. When you strip out part of that and plop in an entirely different culture's musical aesthetic from after its creation, you wind up with a disjointed product out of time with no identity of its own.
So here's what I'd like you to do; I don't know if the Nicktoons forums are still up, but look at all forum posts made before Yamamoto's music was taken out. Are they complaining about how the music doesn't match how the show looks? I would guess no; probably because they don't have any expectations about how the show's music should match the look of the show.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
- VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17547
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
I'm not quite sure that you actually read what I wrote. You and I both know that Dragon Ball isn't from the 60s. Or 70s. It's from the 80s (and later 90s), but has music that evokes the stylings and instruments of those prior decades. This is part of what makes it magical and timeless.Fionordequester wrote:Alright. So if I'm getting you right, you believe that 60's animation needs 60's music to accompany it; or that 90's animation needs 90's music to accompany it.
It's not a 90s show with 90s animation and 90s music. The only time it ever was... was GT, I guess.
I have massive problems with Kai's audio and visual approach, so those folks' opinions hold no water with me. I see Kai as the same type of haphazard mish-mash that FUNimation's product was, and dislike it on a base level for those exact same reasons. The random retraced scenes in the middle of nowhere don't help its cause.Fionordequester wrote:So here's what I'd like you to do; I don't know if the Nicktoons forums are still up, but look at all forum posts made before Yamamoto's music was taken out. Are they complaining about how the music doesn't match how the show looks? I would guess no; probably because they don't have any expectations about how the show's music should match the look of the show.
Yes and no. There was very specific guidance given to what the look, feel, and sound of the show was to be.Blade wrote:I'd be more inclined to agree with that point of view from an artistic standpoint if the Dragonball anime had been conceptualised as a single cohesive package across modalities - but it hadn't. Kikuchi wasn't hired by Toriyama to write specific music in a specific tone, and he probably wasn't directed overly heavily by Toei either. He was already such an established composer at that time, and as we know, his mandate wasn't to underscore the moving images directly as a film composer would.
Off the top of my head (mainly because we haven't put up many translations with Kikuchi), chief designer Yuji Ikeda addressed this a bit, also briefly touching on Toriyama's direction:
But no, I'm not going to sit here with my hands over my ears believing that Kikuchi scored to the episode. We all know he didn't. Especially later on, a huge amount of music was composed for the films and reused in the show.Yuji Ikeda wrote:At the beginning, I aimed for backgrounds with a Chinese-style transparency, and also depth, in accordance with Toriyama-sensei‘s wishes; however, they turned out more like fairy tale-style, Chinese-landscape paintings, without much sense of dimension.
But as the action-type elements became stronger, the art design would also have to change, and the art came to be more realistic, with a sense of depth. Bright, but a sort of imposing power of its own. Except things like Kame House have the same atmosphere as they’ve had up till now, though, so there might be some dissonance there. (laughs)
But they were still the group creating this property in this medium from the ground up, and yes, there was a vision there. I'm far more interested in that vision than I am someone else's (or, speaking to an earlier point, even the same company's new vision thirty years later).
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
- Fionordequester
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2873
- Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Whoa now, I never said that Dragon Ball was from the 60's or 90's! I was just tossing those out as examples while trying to understand your perspective! And wait...you just acknowledged that it was from the 80's-90's, but has music that "evokes the stylings and instruments" of the 60's-70's. In other words, it's an 80's-90's show that has 60's-70's music. I think I'm following you so far...VegettoEX wrote: I'm not quite sure that you actually read what I wrote. You and I both know that Dragon Ball isn't from the 60s. Or 70s. It's from the 80s (and later 90s), but has music that evokes the stylings and instruments of those prior decades. This is part of what makes it magical and timeless.
So how is THAT "timeless", while Dragon Ball Kai is a "haphazard mish-mash"? The way I see it...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dragon Ball Z - Early 90's anime with 60's-70's music.
Dragon Ball Z Kai - Early 90's anime with mid-2010 music.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not seeing the big difference . The only difference I see is that the original had music that was older than the animation, while the new one had music that was younger than the animation.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
- Jinzoningen MULE
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4405
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:33 pm
- Location: Salt Mines
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Come on, let's not pretend that Dragon Ball Kai was its own thing. It's a cut down version of a 90's cartoon that Toei haphazardly rescored, poorly remastered, and recorded a worse version of the dialogue all to make it seem like a new show. Naturally, they failed.Fionordequester wrote:Whoa now, I never said that Dragon Ball was from the 60's or 90's! I was just tossing those out as examples while trying to understand your perspective! And wait...you just acknowledged that it was from the 80's-90's, but has music that "evokes the stylings and instruments" of the 60's-70's. In other words, it's an 80's-90's show that has 60's-70's music. I think I'm following you so far...VegettoEX wrote: I'm not quite sure that you actually read what I wrote. You and I both know that Dragon Ball isn't from the 60s. Or 70s. It's from the 80s (and later 90s), but has music that evokes the stylings and instruments of those prior decades. This is part of what makes it magical and timeless.
So how is THAT "timeless", while Dragon Ball Kai is a "haphazard mish-mash"? The way I see it...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dragon Ball Z - Early 90's anime with 60's-70's music.
Dragon Ball Z Kai - Early 90's anime with mid-2010 music.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not seeing the big difference . The only difference I see is that the original had music that was older than the animation, while the new one had music that was younger than the animation.
I don't hate Kai or anything, it's nice to have, but it is not a competent product.
Footnote: I've never heard music from the 60-70's that sounds like Dragon Ball, but I could be mistaken.
Retired.
- Fionordequester
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2873
- Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm
Re: Are there people that actually hate the Vegeta's Hells Bells music?
Well sure, Dragon Ball Kai was poorly put together in a wide variety of ways. But I don't see what that has to do with my point; that I'm not seeing the difference between a 90's anime with 60's-70's music vs. a 90's anime with mid-2010 music.Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Come on, let's not pretend that Dragon Ball Kai was its own thing. It's a cut down version of a 90's cartoon that Toei haphazardly rescored, poorly remastered, and recorded a worse version of the dialogue all to make it seem like a new show. Naturally, they failed.
I don't hate Kai or anything, it's nice to have, but it is not a competent product.
Footnote: I've never heard music from the 60-70's that sounds like Dragon Ball, but I could be mistaken.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".