Episode #0399 (20 March 2016)

[VegettoEX]

Episode #0399 (download MP3) (rss feed) (subscribe in iTunes) (YouTube version)
48:41; 96 kbps, mono; 33.6 MB

Episode #0399! VegettoEX and Herms break down "Majin" and the various ways it has been translated into English for the Dragon Ball franchise over the last several decades. Though we have gotten monster to genie to djinn and everywhere in between, most fans seem to stick with the untranslated phrase. Why is that, and if we were to operate in a bubble with a new translation, where might we take it?

REFERENCED SITES:

• NEWS: Toyotarō "Dragon Ball Super" Manga Vol. 1 Cover Revealed
• NEWS: "Dragon Ball Super" Voice Actor Update: Kazuhiro Yamaji Debuts as Hit

400 - 1...!

[Ajay]

Formal request for more translation discussions! I love these topics.

Much like yourselves, I've become pretty interested in coming up with proper translations for many of the terms we've simply accepted being left in Japanese. It's a tough one! There are many translations that I'm totally fine with -- Genie/Demon Boo being one of them -- but as you said, there are a few cases where, despite how great and valid it may be, you are absolutely heading into special snowflake territory after so many years. I know you're a fan of the "Venerable Grandmaster" translation for "Muten Roshi", and I feel like that's one of the prime examples of it. It's so hard to go back and reset everyone's minds when you bring in something so wildly different like that. It's the biggest issue I have when considering these things. If you're not careful, you end up alienating your readers/viewers, and end up with the response Viz faced for "Djinn".

It's that constant battle between, "Hey, do I just ignore the complaints and do what's going to convey the Japanese intentions, or do I go with what people are familiar with?" There's also the issue of phenomenally lengthy names that will result in you losing something when you produce an English translation. Translation is hard, it makes my head hurt, so maybe I'll stop pretending I'm even qualified to make any of these decisions and leave it up to people like Herms.

Oh, and EPISODE 400 H Y P E !

[SSJSonGokuu]

Speaking about name puns, I'd love one day for you all to finally do an in depth look into the pronunciation of "Bulma". I personally use Blooma as I see it as a similar romanization that Freeza has. Maybe it's gonna be in the special 400th episode?

[Puto]

For the record, the Spanish translation of the manga (the one from Spain, no idea how the Latin American Spanish translation did anything) used 'Monstruo Bu', which directly translates to 'Monster Bu'. And the Galician dub went with "Mágico Boo", literally "Boo the Magician".

[SaiyaSith]

I'm going to be honest, this topic helped me fall asleep.

[VegettoEX]

I'm going to be honest, this topic helped me fall asleep.

Does that mean the topic bored you / wasn't of any real interest to you? You don't like either my own or Jake's voice(s)? You're so used to us that we inadvertently lulled you to sleep?

I'm not particularly offended one way or the other (I used to listen to podcasts as I would drift off to sleep, myself), but as it stands, I don't really know what to make of your comment!

[Tyro]

I was surprised to hear that Herms' "fresh" translation of Majin would be Djinn or Genie. I mean, I'm far from an expert here, but can a genie, especially in today's terminology, be anything other than a wish-granting, lamp-dwelling, magical creature? Like, does it have another meaning, mainstream or otherwise? Even with Boo's Arabian appearance/background, that still wouldn't qualify him to fit under that term. "Djinn" you could get away with since it seems to be a more ambiguous term for a magical creature that doesn't necessarily do the things that genies are known to do.

I'unno. Someone throw some knowledge my way. But I really hate the term genie for Boo.

[omaro34]

I'm going to be honest, this topic helped me fall asleep.

Does that mean the topic bored you / wasn't of any real interest to you? You don't like either my own or Jake's voice(s)? You're so used to us that we inadvertently lulled you to sleep?

I'm not particularly offended one way or the other (I used to listen to podcasts as I would drift off to sleep, myself), but as it stands, I don't really know what to make of your comment!

I don't get it either. Some things are just better left unsaid.

[SaiyaSith]

I'm going to be honest, this topic helped me fall asleep.

Does that mean the topic bored you / wasn't of any real interest to you? You don't like either my own or Jake's voice(s)? You're so used to us that we inadvertently lulled you to sleep?

I'm not particularly offended one way or the other (I used to listen to podcasts as I would drift off to sleep, myself), but as it stands, I don't really know what to make of your comment!

No, it was just the topic you guys focused on for the majority of the time. You kinda explained the "Majin" stuff not too long ago. I was also in bed while listening. lol

[MajinMan]

I shall be known as Ma-ManMan from now on.

[El Diabeetus]

A fan of these types of episodes. Admittedly due to wanting to know what each term means for the dubs I do. But, interesting nonetheless.

[sailorspazz]

I think I've been avoiding the whole "majin" thing for a few years now by simply referring to him as Boo. Though that works in conversation well enough, if I were translating it, then yeah, the majin would have to be addressed in some way. There doesn't seem to be a clear "best" answer that incorporates both the magical and demonic interpretations of the word, though. "Demon" or "monster" are choices I might go for, but I'm also partial to "imp", even if it isn't strictly literal, since it imparts a sense of Boo's childlike nature.

[ParkerAL]

Even taking all the rational arguments for translation into account, I'd probably still use Majin if forced to choose. Dude has an M on his belt.

[VegettoEX]

Even taking all the rational arguments for translation into account, I'd probably still use Majin if forced to choose. Dude has an M on his belt.

This is addressed in the podcast itself. I raise the point, and Jake specifically mentions both "madoushi" (wizard/warlock) and the more recent answer by Toriyama of simply "magic".

[Adamant]

Formal request for more translation discussions! I love these topics.

Thirding. This stuff is always fun to listen to. Wouldn't mind actually being on the show for a discussion like this, either.


As a side note, I got curious and checked how the Danish manga had translated Majuu, and saw they had gone with "Hell-beast". That is now my favorite translation of the term.

[El Diabeetus]

Formal request for more translation discussions! I love these topics.

Thirding. This stuff is always fun to listen to. Wouldn't mind actually being on the show for a discussion like this, either.


As a side note, I got curious and checked how the Danish manga had translated Majuu, and saw they had gone with "Hell-beast". That is now my favorite translation of the term.

Hell Genie Buu? That sounds pretty cool actually.

[SHINOBI-03]

Coming from Arabic background, allow me to shed some light on the word "Djinn".

"Djinn" is actually the plural noun for "Djinni" which is the same word that "Genie" comes from, though there's a difference in pronunciation with "Djinni" have an emphasis on the n part as opposed to "Gee-ny" as the Aladdin character. The plural for Djinni is also "Djaan" and it's often mentioned in the Holy Book of Quran when spoken about "The Humans and the Djaan".

In Arabian mythology and religious scriptures, the Djinn are a sentient entity made out of smokeless fire and invisible to the human eyes. While associated with the devils, they are not always evil as it mentioned that some of them are believers and followers of God but others are followers of Satan and they are the ones labeled as devils and associated with witchcraft and magic and work with magicians and fortune tellers making them believe that they can know the unknown and do their unholy bidding. Now it's not wish granting as the fairy tales, but they work by possessing specific targets assigned by the magician or a client and what they do is pretty much messing them up from the inside corrupting their souls and change them to unstable minded people who act the opposite of what's their original self. This is done using demonic rituals like writing in blood on unholy Quran copies or using talismans and idols hidden in specific locations. The demonic possessions is treated with holy methods like reading the Holy Book and reciting other religious scriptures, usually by a holy man like an Imam and by God's will the demon leaves the victim. While this may sound fantastic and out of fairy tales, it's actually real believe it or not and there are plenty of reports about busting the magicians and uncovering their darkest secrets and rituals. These are not made-up stuff.

Now for the regular "good" Djinn, in their natural state they live where humans do not stay. For example when you leave your room, the Djinni takes the place. They don't affect your place since they live in another spectrum, but they still occupy your place until a human shows up and they leave the place. Djinn also live in open areas and outskirts like deep in the mountains and caves where no human feet reaches and night time is the time they are associated to start their activities and the general thought is to leave these dark places for them without bothering them. I remember one time as a kid I threw a rock deep down a valley at night time and my Mom told me not to do because I might've hit a a Djinni on his head and hurt him.

Now, in comparison with Majin Boo, we did see Boo work for Bibidi and Bobidi who were magicians, but then when he turns good we see that he's a fun loving demon who only gets angry when provoked. So is Djinn Boo an appropriate adaptation? I'd guess so since it does fit the context and character influences. But for the word "Majin" on itself, I only use it when referring to this specific character since it's pretty much like a trademark for Boo. But if I would choose to adapt it to something, I'd go with "Magical Being Boo" or "Magi Boo" considering that "Magi" is an ancient word associated with magic and ancient spiritual rituals from Persian mythology.

[batistabus]

Hmm. A few thoughts.

I like genie for Boo (since he pretty much is one), but I don't think that would work for the other "majin" characters in Dragon Ball. Genie Lucifer? Genie Ozotto? Based on the example of using "majin" to refer to genies (like in Aladdin), that seems like a vague word to describe a magic person that applies to multiple types of magic people (as explained). Based on this, I would say that "majin" is a good translation of "genie", but "genie" isn't a good translation of "majin".

We use Artificial Humans as a translation of Jinzoningen, so if we're going to translate majin, wouldn't it be more consistent to go with "Magical Human/Being"? Or Magical God?

I'm somewhat confused on the "ma" part of "majin". Does it only mean evil selectively? Is the idea of magic in Japanese somewhat inseparable from the traditional meaning of evil? If it really breaks down to "(evil) magic person", then I think demon is the best fit. If the "god" character is meant to be significant, then "(evil) magic god" sounds like devil to me.

I know I'm pretty much just echoing the general thoughts of the podcast at this point. While I like Genie Boo the most, I don't think it's the best option. I think the best choices are "Demon Boo", "Devil Boo", and "Magical Being Boo".

...regardless, I'm still inclined to stick with Majin Boo, who is (probably) a genie.

[Kaboom]

Finally got around to listening to this episode today. I'm surprised but also kind of relieved that you guys never mentioned one of the worst and most bafflingly point-missing dub names ever...

"Majuub."

*shudders*