Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

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Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby VegettoEX » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:49 pm

Episode #0457 (download MP3) (rss feed) (subscribe in iTunes) (YouTube version) (SoundCloud version)
39:08; 96 kbps, mono; 27.1 MB

Episode #0457! Mike and Jake fire up the podcast cannons to take a look at the biggest examples of writers, producers, and marketers maybe perhaps thinking about possibly making some kind of relatively concrete statement about A True Canon™ for the Dragon Ball series. What are some of the trends in the phrasing we have seen over the years, and what does the most recent example tell us about what to expect in the future?

SEGMENTS:

  • 00:12 - Introduction
  • 02:03 - Interview 1: Daisuke Uchiyama, "Dragon Ball Z" series
  • 33:48 - Wrap-up
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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby KBABZ » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:57 pm

As someone who's still currently participating in the "Canon matters" thread, this was a very insightful and well-timed podcast!

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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby nato25 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:02 pm

Cool discussion and clears up some misconceptions.

Mike you mentioned canon can be a headache and I feel the exact same way. I believe this series could be so much stronger if it built upon it's legacy instead of constantly replacing and contradicting itself. Obviously now we have two/three/four versions of Bardock and none of them can exist within the same universe, forcing fans to choose what work they will take as their own personal canon. I hate that.

Maybe years ago that would stop my enjoyment of the new film for example but thankfully that's not the case anymore. As as series I feel I care about more than the producers sometimes it is a huge annoyance though.

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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby KBABZ » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:11 am

nato25 wrote:Cool discussion and clears up some misconceptions.

Mike you mentioned canon can be a headache and I feel the exact same way. I believe this series could be so much stronger if it built upon it's legacy instead of constantly replacing and contradicting itself. Obviously now we have two/three/four versions of Bardock and none of them can exist within the same universe, forcing fans to choose what work they will take as their own personal canon. I hate that.

Maybe years ago that would stop my enjoyment of the new film for example but thankfully that's not the case anymore. As as series I feel I care about more than the producers sometimes it is a huge annoyance though.

At the same time I kinda like that we have various different takes on stories and events. I personally like the introduction of the Gine character thanks to DB- despite how contentious that story is, but at the same time we have this other version with a much more dramatic take on he character that fans love as well. And with there being no canon, you don't feel like you're "not allowed" to like a particular take on the story because that story is non-canon.

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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby nato25 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:36 am

KBABZ wrote:
nato25 wrote:Cool discussion and clears up some misconceptions.

Mike you mentioned canon can be a headache and I feel the exact same way. I believe this series could be so much stronger if it built upon it's legacy instead of constantly replacing and contradicting itself. Obviously now we have two/three/four versions of Bardock and none of them can exist within the same universe, forcing fans to choose what work they will take as their own personal canon. I hate that.

Maybe years ago that would stop my enjoyment of the new film for example but thankfully that's not the case anymore. As as series I feel I care about more than the producers sometimes it is a huge annoyance though.

At the same time I kinda like that we have various different takes on stories and events. I personally like the introduction of the Gine character thanks to DB- despite how contentious that story is, but at the same time we have this other version with a much more dramatic take on he character that fans love as well. And with there being no canon, you don't feel like you're "not allowed" to like a particular take on the story because that story is non-canon.


I could almost agree with you Kbabz and I definitely see the point you are coming from. Maybe if TOEI/Shueisha/whoever is in charge of all this stuff now treated it more like alternate takes on the same story I'd agree with you, but to me it just comes off as them not caring enough to fact check before releasing material or not marketing alternate takes on a story as such.

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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby KBABZ » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:30 am

nato25 wrote:I could almost agree with you Kbabz and I definitely see the point you are coming from. Maybe if TOEI/Shueisha/whoever is in charge of all this stuff now treated it more like alternate takes on the same story I'd agree with you, but to me it just comes off as them not caring enough to fact check before releasing material or not marketing alternate takes on a story as such.

Well of course Toei has never bothered enough to ever, say, clarify that Curse of the Blood Rubies was an alternate take of what was presented in the anime even though it uses the same artists and crew and is based on the same source material, even when that film first came out. And as mentioned in this episode, the guide books bring up these discrepancies and then just go "question marks????? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "

The fact that the guide books do that sort of thing is a primary factor as to why I consider the Daizenshuu and Chozenshuu and what have you to not be the Dragon Ball bibles that they are often revered to be, and more books that just reiterate stuff from the source material that are closer to marketing puff pieces than anything else. I can understand why they'd be incredibly useful in the days before Toei put the original Japanese versions out on DVD for people to easily check, though.

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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby nato25 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:46 am

KBABZ wrote:
nato25 wrote:I could almost agree with you Kbabz and I definitely see the point you are coming from. Maybe if TOEI/Shueisha/whoever is in charge of all this stuff now treated it more like alternate takes on the same story I'd agree with you, but to me it just comes off as them not caring enough to fact check before releasing material or not marketing alternate takes on a story as such.

Well of course Toei has never bothered enough to ever, say, clarify that Curse of the Blood Rubies was an alternate take of what was presented in the anime even though it uses the same artists and crew and is based on the same source material, even when that film first came out. And as mentioned in this episode, the guide books bring up these discrepancies and then just go "question marks????? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "

The fact that the guide books do that sort of thing is a primary factor as to why I consider the Daizenshuu and Chozenshuu and what have you to not be the Dragon Ball bibles that they are often revered to be, and more books that just reiterate stuff from the source material that are closer to marketing puff pieces than anything else. I can understand why they'd be incredibly useful in the days before Toei put the original Japanese versions out on DVD for people to easily check, though.


Come to think of it, in contrast to what I've been saying I feel Path to Power (the 10th anniversary celebration) is exactly what I want from a retelling and was marketed perfectly. That wasn't TOEI being contradicting or splitting the same story into two factions like with the movies vs super interpretations, just a fun retelling made to celebrate the franchise. No one is ever gonna argue about which events are the true canon between Path to Power and the original series.

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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby KBABZ » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:10 am

nato25 wrote:Come to think of it, in contrast to what I've been saying I feel Path to Power (the 10th anniversary celebration) is exactly what I want from a retelling and was marketed perfectly. That wasn't TOEI being contradicting or splitting the same story into two factions like with the movies vs super interpretations, just a fun retelling made to celebrate the franchise. No one is ever gonna argue about which events are the true canon between Path to Power and the original series.

Yeah! 10th Anniversary retelling, that immediately tells the audience what they need to know. Compared that to "It's a Dragon Ball Z movie set vaguely where the anime is right now, please look forward to it! : D "

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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby Bebi Hatchiyack » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:10 am

So from what I understood they released a promotionnal flyer with the word "true history" which refer in japan to the canon as we understand it in europe/north america and this word is use in show like Star Trek or Star Wars ?

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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby mysteriousdbzgt » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:51 am

An insightful episode, thank you! Do you happen to have a link to the original or Viz's translated "canonical" chronically timeline, that was exhibited at the Tokyo Skytree? I've seem to of missed that and would be interested in seeing it.

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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby VegettoEX » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:12 am

mysteriousdbzgt wrote:An insightful episode, thank you! Do you happen to have a link to the original or Viz's translated "canonical" chronically timeline, that was exhibited at the Tokyo Skytree? I've seem to of missed that and would be interested in seeing it.

Sure!

Here's a panning video clip (with SOMEONE in the way) of the actual setup at NYCC, and here's the one panel in question.
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Re: Episode #0457 (04 November 2018)

Postby mysteriousdbzgt » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:51 am

VegettoEX wrote:
mysteriousdbzgt wrote:An insightful episode, thank you! Do you happen to have a link to the original or Viz's translated "canonical" chronically timeline, that was exhibited at the Tokyo Skytree? I've seem to of missed that and would be interested in seeing it.

Sure!

Here's a panning video clip (with SOMEONE in the way) of the actual setup at NYCC, and here's the one panel in question.


Brilliant, thanks Mike!


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