Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[NitroEX]

I have my doubts that AB Groupe was in charge of this dub. AB Groupe hasn't done anything with Dragon Ball since, I don't know, hiring a bunch of American actors based in Paris to dub the DBZ movies?

That isn't proof that they weren't involved though. By 2005 they had exhausted all Dragon Ball material and probably assumed there'd be no more. By 2009 however, Toei had revealed Kai.
AB could've very easily jumped at the chance to once again cash in with an English dub of their own. After all, it did turn out to be a winning strategy with the previous series. Quite a few territories bought their dub instead of Funimation's.

We know that Ocean started casting for Kai in early 2010 so that's roughly a 5 year gap between then and the Big Green broadcasts. I don't see what's so outlandish about AB Groupe taking a 5 year gap from Dragon Ball, especially since they were relying on the stream of content from Japan.

In theory they could've learned from their mistakes, dropped the Big Green cast and hired back Ocean for Kai. The only thing that seems out of character for AB would've been the strict pronunciations (Nah-mek) and recasting of Kirby Morrow. Although we could speculate and say those decisions came from within Ocean themselves rather than AB. They seemed to remain hands off with the other dubs.

[8000 Saiyan]

I have my doubts that AB Groupe was in charge of this dub. AB Groupe hasn't done anything with Dragon Ball since, I don't know, hiring a bunch of American actors based in Paris to dub the DBZ movies?

That isn't proof that they weren't involved though. By 2005 they had exhausted all Dragon Ball material and probably assumed there'd be no more. By 2009 however, Toei had revealed Kai.
AB could've very easily jumped at the chance to once again cash in with an English dub of their own. After all, it did turn out to be a winning strategy with the previous series. Quite a few territories bought their dub instead of Funimation's.

We know that Ocean started casting for Kai in early 2010 so that's roughly a 5 year gap between then and the Big Green broadcasts. I don't see what's so outlandish about AB Groupe taking a 5 year gap from Dragon Ball, especially since they were relying on the stream of content from Japan.

In theory they could've learned from their mistakes, dropped the Big Green cast and hired back Ocean for Kai. The only thing that seems out of character for AB would've been the strict pronunciations (Nah-mek) and recasting of Kirby Morrow. Although we could speculate and say those decisions came from within Ocean themselves rather than AB. They seemed to remain hands off with the other dubs.

Meh, I still doubt that they were involved. It was probably Toei who was secretly behind this dub.

[Robo4900]

Meh, I still doubt that they were involved. It was probably Toei who was secretly behind this dub.

That would only happen if the head of Toei is secretly M. Night Shyamalan.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I have my doubts that AB Groupe was in charge of this dub. AB Groupe hasn't done anything with Dragon Ball since, I don't know, hiring a bunch of American actors based in Paris to dub the DBZ movies?

That isn't proof that they weren't involved though. By 2005 they had exhausted all Dragon Ball material and probably assumed there'd be no more. By 2009 however, Toei had revealed Kai.
AB could've very easily jumped at the chance to once again cash in with an English dub of their own. After all, it did turn out to be a winning strategy with the previous series. Quite a few territories bought their dub instead of Funimation's.

We know that Ocean started casting for Kai in early 2010 so that's roughly a 5 year gap between then and the Big Green broadcasts. I don't see what's so outlandish about AB Groupe taking a 5 year gap from Dragon Ball, especially since they were relying on the stream of content from Japan.

In theory they could've learned from their mistakes, dropped the Big Green cast and hired back Ocean for Kai. The only thing that seems out of character for AB would've been the strict pronunciations (Nah-mek) and recasting of Kirby Morrow. Although we could speculate and say those decisions came from within Ocean themselves rather than AB. They seemed to remain hands off with the other dubs.

Meh, I still doubt that they were involved. It was probably Toei who was secretly behind this dub.

I thought this at one point too, but it doesn't make sense for TOEI to commission this dub only to then intently stop it from airing in the UK.

If AB aren't the company behind Ocean Kai I would guess Turner are.

[SX10]

What would be the Toei Animation contact details? Specifically their mailing address. Hopefully I wouldn't have to have a letter translated to Japanese? :S

[Baggie_Saiyan]

What would be the Toei Animation contact details? Specifically their mailing address. Hopefully I wouldn't have to have a letter translated to Japanese? :S

Here is Toei USA's contact: inquiry@toei-animation-usa.com

[SX10]

What would be the Toei Animation contact details? Specifically their mailing address. Hopefully I wouldn't have to have a letter translated to Japanese? :S

Here is Toei USA's contact: inquiry@toei-animation-usa.com

Thank you!

[8000 Saiyan]

Well, that's just what this director told me their interpretation of the situation was. I didn't doubt it, though, as they do seem to have some impressive pre-lay credits. Even if the material they're getting for pre-lay projects isn't top-shelf, the fact still remains, top-shelf or not, pre-lay always pays more than dubs.

Vancouver and Toronto really get the short end of the stick when it comes to the quality of the cartoons they record. It'd be nice if American cartoon companies used Canada for their cartoons again. I wouldn't mind seeing another Marvel cartoon recorded at Vancouver or even Toronto.

[Char Aznable]

This whole saga was very fascinating to follow on-and-off over the years. I still find it hard to believe that Ocean Group completed a dub of the entire series only for the whole thing to be canned for good. If that truly is the case, wow, all I have to say is that Kai has been in my opinion one giant production disaster almost from beginning to end. Between the score and Yamamoto in Japan and this completely wasted dub, it just seems like one mistake after another.

So now here's the question, if this dub truly has been produced (Scott McNeil has said on multiple occasions that it has and I don't think he has any reason to lie about that), there's the question of relevancy. Kai is simply not relevant anymore. Even if by some magical reason they did get this thing to air (which doesn't seem likely), who's really going to watch it at this point? Kai has aired in its intended markets already, who's going to run it? More importantly, who's going to watch it? Write-in campaigns are all well and good, but with Super coming out, I can't see a rerun of Kai just to air the other dub.

[NitroEX]

Kai has aired in its intended markets already,

Except for Canada, and for what it's worth, Holland apparently hasn't aired it yet either.

who's going to watch it?

Probably kids who've yet to be introduced to Dragonball, as well as fans of the old dub. According to DVD sales, there's still a fanbase in Canada.

there's the question of relevancy. Kai is simply not relevant anymore.

Seemed to do well enough in the US, and that was after they aired it on another channel.

[Robo4900]

Adding to what NitroEX said, if a Canadian network airs Kai, you can be pretty certain they'll use the Ocean dub due to the fact most content aired in Canada has to be Canadian. The combination of it being Canadian actors and a Canadian replacement score make the show count as properly Canadian(This is likely why they did a replacement score, in fact), so I think any TV network that would want to air Kai would go for Ocean's dub.

It's possible future UK airings of Kai might use Ocean's dub, given the fact the Funimation version failed on Kix(Or whatever station it was), and that this Funimation airing of Kai is the only time we've ever had a consistently non-Ocean airing of Dragon Ball in the UK(During Z's original run, it used to swap in some Funimation episodes, but I think this was likely due to Ocean not getting the tapes to the UK in time, as all re-airings I'm aware of used the Ocean dub); since most casual viewers would be more familiar with the Ocean and Blue Water casts, having the old voices back would be a plus.

Of course, the UK thing is mostly just speculation combined with optimism on my part that I'll be able to see Scott McNeil, Brian Drummond, Don Brown, and the rest of the gang in Dragon Ball Z on TV again, but I'm pretty certain about Canada likely using the Ocean dub if they air Kai.

[90sDBZ]

It's possible future UK airings of Kai might use Ocean's dub, given the fact the Funimation version failed on Kix(Or whatever station it was), and that this Funimation airing of Kai is the only time we've ever had a consistently non-Ocean airing of Dragon Ball in the UK(During Z's original run, it used to swap in some Funimation episodes, but I think this was likely due to Ocean not getting the tapes to the UK in time, as all re-airings I'm aware of used the Ocean dub); since most casual viewers would be more familiar with the Ocean and Blue Water casts, having the old voices back would be a plus.

Actually Funimation's dub of Kai was a success on Kix, making it to number 1 in the ratings on more than one occasion, and normally only losing out to the very popular Power Rangers. It even remained on the air in reruns for a full 2 years after finishing its initial broadcast.

And as far as the old UK Z Broadcasts are concerned, the Funimation dub was always used for the Ginyu, Frieza, Garlic Jr, and Trunks sagas, even during reruns. Besides that we've also had the Funimation voices for the videogames, so people here were definitely familiar with that cast before Kai aired.

What a lot of casual fans don't realise is that Ocean have never dubbed episodes 54-107 of Z, and that the later Ocean dub(starting from episode 108 and also known as the Westwood dub) is a completely separate production from the early Ocean dub(which was actually produced by Funimation). So Ocean Kai would actually be the first time that cast have dubbed the entire series in one go(with the exception of the Buu saga).

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I would like to see another UK broadcaster pick up Kai, but I can't see who would. Maybe Sky? Although I doubt they would air the Ocean dub since their airings of the movies did well, and sadly Cartoon Network couldn't care less about anime.

If by some miracle this dub ever airs it will probably be just in Canada. Sure its past the point the producers could make a return on their investment, but at this point anything's better than nothing.

As for whether it still matters when Super is a thing, I say of course. For a generation of kids Ocean Kai will be a new show to them, and Drummond and McNeil are iconic enough to make longtime fans experience the show all over again, even if they are just a vocal minority. The Youtube community will keep the fanbase for this thing alive.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I would like to see another UK broadcaster pick up Kai, but I can't see who would. Maybe Sky? Although I doubt they would air the Ocean dub since their airings of the movies did well, and sadly Cartoon Network couldn't care less about anime.

Not gonna happen, SkyOne said Dragon Ball isn't a viable option and if it was it would be Super, and even if they did air Kai they would air what Toei would gives them ie the FUNi dub.

[Char Aznable]

Kai has aired in its intended markets already,

Except for Canada, and for what it's worth, Holland apparently hasn't aired it yet either.

who's going to watch it?

Probably kids who've yet to be introduced to Dragonball, as well as fans of the old dub. According to DVD sales, there's still a fanbase in Canada.

there's the question of relevancy. Kai is simply not relevant anymore.

Seemed to do well enough in the US, and that was after they aired it on another channel.

Canada still hasn't aired any iteration of Kai yet to this day? I could've sworn they did on YTV or something, that's really surprising to me. Obviously there's still a fanbase in Canada airing or not, but if they ever did finally get around to airing Kai the only way I could see it being this fabled Ocean dub would be because of Canadian content law like Robo4900 brought up.

My main thing though is that I don't see Kai as relevant. A late airing of Kai could've worked before Super was announced and there were just the new movies, but now all the rage is Super which is marketed as a sequel to Z, Kai is not mentioned. Then again, outside of Japan it's 'Z Kai' so that could be moot.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't see a separate English dub that was made around seven years ago for a show that largely didn't do very well (let's face it, Kai was plagued with loads of problems) to suddenly make an appearance now in 2017 when all the focus is on the all-new television series nobody was expecting to see.

After Super, maybe? I still have trouble seeing it.

[NitroEX]

but if they ever did finally get around to airing Kai the only way I could see it being this fabled Ocean dub would be because of Canadian content law like Robo4900 brought up.

That's the idea. FYI, it was approved as a Canadian production (check page 2) probably for this very reason. Funimation's dub probably doesn't stand much of a chance in Canada but this dub will be far more appealing to the networks because they can use it to fill their Canadian quota. If it gets on air over there it will probably do well enough in the ratings to warrant an Ocean dub of TFC and maybe even Super. Problem is they're not biting, likely because there's no toy deal (just speculation).

My main thing though is that I don't see Kai as relevant. A late airing of Kai could've worked before Super was announced and there were just the new movies, but now all the rage is Super which is marketed as a sequel to Z, Kai is not mentioned. Then again, outside of Japan it's 'Z Kai' so that could be moot.

Kai is needed as the setup for Super. Unless there were special exceptions made, they won't just air Super in a region that has only broadcast Z 10-15 years ago, the current child viewership won't be as familiar with the story and characters and the networks aren't going to risk alienate viewers like that. If they become interested in Super, chances are they're going to look into Kai first.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't see a separate English dub that was made around seven years ago for a show that largely didn't do very well (let's face it, Kai was plagued with loads of problems)

What problems? The Kenji Yamamoto plagiarism? That's never been a factor for Ocean's dub because we knew right from the beginning that they replaced the score themselves.

[TheUltimateNinja]

What's up with Canada, anyway?

[Robo4900]

Actually Funimation's dub of Kai was a success on Kix, making it to number 1 in the ratings on more than one occasion, and normally only losing out to the very popular Power Rangers. It even remained on the air in reruns for a full 2 years after finishing its initial broadcast.

Huh. I'd always heard it failed.

And as far as the old UK Z Broadcasts are concerned, the Funimation dub was always used for the Ginyu, Frieza, Garlic Jr, and Trunks sagas, even during reruns. Besides that we've also had the Funimation voices for the videogames, so people here were definitely familiar with that cast before Kai aired.

That's not what I was referring to. Ocean never dubbed 54-107, so obviously the Funi dub was used for that, but there are people throwing around the idea that other episodes aired from the Funimation dub. I was talking about that.
And yeah, the video games are there, but the TV show would be what people are more familiar with. Besides, casual fans wouldn't have necessarily bought a lot of the video games.

What a lot of casual fans don't realise is that Ocean have never dubbed episodes 54-107 of Z, and that the later Ocean dub(starting from episode 108 and also known as the Westwood dub) is a completely separate production from the early Ocean dub(which was actually produced by Funimation). So Ocean Kai would actually be the first time that cast have dubbed the entire series in one go(with the exception of the Buu saga).

First off, Ocean not dubbing 54-107 is fairly common knowledge these days. Either way though, that's an odd thing to point out...
Second, "Completely separate production"? What are you even talking about? The only real difference is the people supplying the money, the ADR directors, and I guess the replacement score(Since Saban weren't involved anymore, Shuki Levy couldn't do it). The Saban era was produced by Funimation and Saban, but the only real effect they had on it was Funimation's ADR directors, and Saban's in-house composers. The Westwood era was produced by AB Groupe and Westwood media, with the only real effect being a lower budget than Saban provided, and a different replacement score. The whole point of bringing Ocean back in the first place was that they'd been voicing it before. Saying it's a "Completely separate production" is pretty silly.

I suppose the whole show in one go with one consistent cast and score works kind of as a selling point, since you don't have to switch the cast around for episodes 54-107, but that seems like a pretty obvious point. Besides, what about the Boo arc?

Canada still hasn't aired any iteration of Kai yet to this day? I could've sworn they did on YTV or something, that's really surprising to me. Obviously there's still a fanbase in Canada airing or not, but if they ever did finally get around to airing Kai the only way I could see it being this fabled Ocean dub would be because of Canadian content law like Robo4900 brought up.

My guess is Canadian networks didn't want to air it because it was a US dub. Then by the time the Ocean dub was ready, it was too late. It's probably still sitting on the shelf, ready to air whenever Canada wants it. The problem is Canadian TV networks and their weird crusade against anime.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can't see a separate English dub that was made around seven years ago for a show that largely didn't do very well (let's face it, Kai was plagued with loads of problems) to suddenly make an appearance now in 2017 when all the focus is on the all-new television series nobody was expecting to see.

Kai did pretty well in the English-speaking world. It only did poorly in Japan, really.

[NitroEX]

Actually Funimation's dub of Kai was a success on Kix, making it to number 1 in the ratings on more than one occasion, and normally only losing out to the very popular Power Rangers. It even remained on the air in reruns for a full 2 years after finishing its initial broadcast.

Huh. I'd always heard it failed.

It did have some success but given that they've now completely severed ties with the Dragon Ball IP and have seemingly made no moves to acquire TFC or Super, it would suggest that Kai wasn't a profitable investment for them after all. Whatever price Toei was charging for the license probably wasn't worth it to them anymore and after their channel saw no major growth with Kai they probably decided to pull out once the contract expired. I don't think Kai was the problem though, Kix is a small channel compared to Cartoon Network and Disney so their viewership is probably much smaller to begin with. If Kai had aired on a bigger channel it probably would've done better, problem is, Turner don't seem to want anything to do with anime anymore when it comes to the UK which is weird considering their recent push for Toonami in the US, Asia and France. Maybe the ratings on Kix were enough to convince them that it wasn't worth the investment.

[90sDBZ]

That's not what I was referring to. Ocean never dubbed 54-107, so obviously the Funi dub was used for that, but there are people throwing around the idea that other episodes aired from the Funimation dub. I was talking about that.
And yeah, the video games are there, but the TV show would be what people are more familiar with. Besides, casual fans wouldn't have necessarily bought a lot of the video games.

First off, Ocean not dubbing 54-107 is fairly common knowledge these days. Either way though, that's an odd thing to point out...
Second, "Completely separate production"? What are you even talking about? The only real difference is the people supplying the money, the ADR directors, and I guess the replacement score(Since Saban weren't involved anymore, Shuki Levy couldn't do it). The Saban era was produced by Funimation and Saban, but the only real effect they had on it was Funimation's ADR directors, and Saban's in-house composers. The Westwood era was produced by AB Groupe and Westwood media, with the only real effect being a lower budget than Saban provided, and a different replacement score. The whole point of bringing Ocean back in the first place was that they'd been voicing it before. Saying it's a "Completely separate production" is pretty silly.

I only pointed out Ocean not dubbing episodes 54-107 because you said that the Ocean dub was always used during re-runs without specifying any particular episodes. I guess I read your comment wrong, but I got the impression you were saying that the Ocean dub was used for literally the entire series during re-runs. I think you're actually thinking of the time CNX aired the Funi dub of the Fusion saga for its first few months on the air before switching back to the Ocean dub for the later re-runs.

And the reason I mentioned the Westwood dub being a separate production is because it's a common misconception among fans to simply refer to the "Ocean dub" as if it were one whole consistent production, while overlooking things like the major drop in quality, drastically different score and tone, and recastings. But you seem to be aware of that anyway so yeah, no big deal.

Actually Funimation's dub of Kai was a success on Kix, making it to number 1 in the ratings on more than one occasion, and normally only losing out to the very popular Power Rangers. It even remained on the air in reruns for a full 2 years after finishing its initial broadcast.

Huh. I'd always heard it failed.

It did have some success but given that they've now completely severed ties with the Dragon Ball IP and have seemingly made no moves to acquire TFC or Super, it would suggest that Kai wasn't a profitable investment for them after all. Whatever price Toei was charging for the license probably wasn't worth it to them anymore and after their channel saw no major growth with Kai they probably decided to pull out once the contract expired. I don't think Kai was the problem though, Kix is a small channel compared to Cartoon Network and Disney so their viewership is probably much smaller to begin with. If Kai had aired on a bigger channel it probably would've done better, problem is, Turner don't seem to want anything to do with anime anymore when it comes to the UK which is weird considering their recent push for Toonami in the US, Asia and France. Maybe the ratings on Kix were enough to convince them that it wasn't worth the investment.

Ultimately we can only speculate whether or not it was an actual financial success for Kix. However it might also be down to Kix just wanting an overhaul. Around the time they aired Kai they were also airing some old Toonami UK stuff like Batman of the Future, Justice League, The Batman, Xmen Evolution, and Ultimate Muscle. Since around the time Kai got taken off in late 2015 they've literally avoided showing any kind of action cartoons, so it could be coincidental. It also wouldn't have helped that they had to show the Nicktoons US edited version, which was pretty heavily cut in some scenes like Goku vs Vegeta.

And I agree that Kix wasn't the ideal channel for it to air on given how it's essentially outside of the main kids section. They also did stupid things like repeating the Saiyan and Frieza sagas constantly but only showing the Android/Cell saga a small handful of times for some odd reason.