Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:27 pm

HeroR wrote: In the Buu Saga, Goten nearly killed Gohan with rocks. Gohan only had a slight edge thanks to experience.
Yeah, I'd agree with you that Goten is at least on par with Gohan... until recently. Gotenks apparently got a huge boost in power from the RoSaT, wouldn't that imply that Goten and Trunks powered up greatly too? We know from Super's "evidence" that Post RoSaT kids are weaker than Piccolo at the very least.
What battle powers would you give to these characters?

Goku (Boo arc)
Goten (Pre & Post RoSaT)
Trunks (Pre & Post RoSaT)
Gohan (Pre Budokai, 25th Budokai and Post Z-sword training)
Gotenks (Pre & Post RoSaT)
Piccolo (Boo arc, RoF & Current)
Majin Boo (Vs. Majin Vegeta & Current)

EDIT: another thing I remembered is that apparently, Gotenks is at least ten times stronger than the kids individually. I'll have to check my source though.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:You're in the DB community, it's always a power level thread to someone.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:31 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
HeroR wrote:Burden of proof?
Yes, burden of proof. You were the one asserting that Vegeta didn't need to transform into Super Saiyan at all and was somehow overcompensating out of nowhere despite the fact that he specifically chose to transform when defeating Frost. You haven't provided a modicum of evidence to back this notion up.

When you make a strong claim like that, the onus is on you to substantiate it. So far you've failed to do so, instead throwing up the argumentative equivalent of "Well prove that this completely baseless premise I've brought up ISN'T true!" and using a bunch of irrelevant (and rather poorly interpreted on your part) examples from other points in the series even though they share no circumstantial relation to the discussion at hand.

It doesn't work like that. The ball's in your court.
I said nothing proves that Vegeta needed to transform other then, 'he transformed' and I named several examples where character transformed when they didn't need to. Therefore, it's flawed to say, they needed to transformed based on they transformed.

If you're going to say Vegeta needed to transform, you need more proof than 'he transformed'.

DBZ Macky wrote:
HeroR wrote: In the Buu Saga, Goten nearly killed Gohan with rocks. Gohan only had a slight edge thanks to experience.
Yeah, I'd agree with you that Goten is at least on par with Gohan... until recently. Gotenks apparently got a huge boost in power from the RoSaT, wouldn't that imply that Goten and Trunks powered up greatly too? We know from Super's "evidence" that Post RoSaT kids are weaker than Piccolo at the very least.
What battle powers would you give to these characters?

Goku (Boo arc)
Goten (Pre & Post RoSaT)
Trunks (Pre & Post RoSaT)
Gohan (Pre Budokai, 25th Budokai and Post Z-sword training)
Gotenks (Pre & Post RoSaT)
Piccolo (Boo arc, RoF & Current)
Majin Boo (Vs. Majin Vegeta & Current)

EDIT: another thing I remembered is that apparently, Gotenks is at least ten times stronger than the kids individually. I'll have to check my source though.
We don't know the multiplier for Gotenks and by the time Goten saw Gohan again, he was way stronger. So Goten's increased power is moot. Plus Piccolo kept training after the Buu Saga while Goten and Trunks didn't.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:46 pm

HeroR wrote:Therefore, it's flawed to say, they needed to transformed based on they transformed.
Not really because that's exactly what the scene presents. Vegeta purposely went Super Saiyan, therefore it was necessary for some express purpose. If Vegeta could have easily made quick work out of Frost without transforming, there's nothing suggesting he wouldn't have done so. You're the only one here pretending that he transformed and overcompensated for absolutely no reason while demonstrating very wanting "evidence" in support of that claim.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:57 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
HeroR wrote:Therefore, it's flawed to say, they needed to transformed based on they transformed.
Not really because that's exactly what the scene presents. Vegeta purposely went Super Saiyan, therefore it was necessary for some express purpose. If Vegeta could have easily made quick work out of Frost without transforming, there's nothing suggesting he wouldn't have done so. You're the only one here pretending that he transformed and overcompensated for absolutely no reason while demonstrating very wanting "evidence" in support of that claim.
I am not sure why you think 'I am the only one pretending' since other share my opinion. Just because they don't post here doesn't mean they don't exist.

And Vegeta could have easily decided to go pure overkill since, again, I have named several times when the characters purposely used more force than necessary to get the job done.

So no. He transformed isn't evidence of anything that he needed to transform.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:28 pm

HeroR wrote:I am not sure why you think 'I am the only one pretending' since other share my opinion. Just because they don't post here doesn't mean they don't exist.
First of all, that's why I specifically said "here", and secondly, "All these other people that I haven't in any way proven exist are backing me up on this!" is essentially a non-argument.
And Vegeta could have easily decided to go pure overkill since, again, I have named several times when the characters purposely used more force than necessary to get the job done.
You mean examples that like three other people disputed? Look, I don't really need to explain why Goku thought Super Saiyan Blue may have been necessary to kill one of the most durable characters in the entire series, weakened or not.
So no. He transformed isn't evidence of anything that he needed to transform.
And again, Vegeta purposely transformed, so the default conclusion would obviously be that he transformed for a specific pupose (which as the scene dictates was oneshotting Frost). I don't know how you're not getting this. That's more than just evidence, it's just incredibly self-apparent.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:39 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
HeroR wrote:I am not sure why you think 'I am the only one pretending' since other share my opinion. Just because they don't post here doesn't mean they don't exist.
First of all, that's why I specifically said "here", and secondly, "All these other people that I haven't in any way proven exist are backing me up on this!" is essentially a non-argument.
And Vegeta could have easily decided to go pure overkill since, again, I have named several times when the characters purposely used more force than necessary to get the job done.
You mean examples that like three other people disputed? Look, I don't really need to explain why Goku thought Super Saiyan Blue may have been necessary to kill one of the most durable characters in the entire series, weakened or not.
So no. He transformed isn't evidence of anything that he needed to transform.
And again, Vegeta purposely transformed, so the default conclusion would obviously be that he transformed for a specific pupose (which as the scene dictates was oneshotting Frost). I don't know how you're not getting this. That's more than just evidence, it's just incredibly self-apparent.
Trying to say I am the only one here saying this is just dishonest. Especially when it's literally just the same people with no new ones except every blue moon. This isn't the only forum that talk about power levels.

The 'most durable character' got killed effortlessly by Super Saiyan Trunks chopping him up when he's off-guard. Goku didn't need Super Saiyan God Super to kill Freeza since Freeza wasn't expecting Goku to throw a Kamehameha at him. Not to mention, base form Goku nearly killed Freeze with a Kamehameha in the movie. It's overkill, plain and simple.

I named a situation why this mindset is flawed. Vegeta transforming isn't evidence that he needed to no matter how you spin it.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:17 pm

In other news, the preview for the upcoming chapter mentions how Buu is at a disadvantage against Basil but still laughs anyway.

Obviously it's too early to say too much but it's fun to speculate. Perhaps this Basil actually is stronger than Buu which could make him at least Kid Buu level perhaps? But it doesn't matter because Buu's regeneration and magic allow him to win in the end.

So if Basil does end up being stronger than Buu then it'll be interesting to see how Bergamo stacks up compared to Goku. Is Bergamo going to be stronger than Basil and then Base Goku is gonna be stronger still and that is what leads to Bergamo using the poison?

There's every opportunity to show that Base Goku is still indeed above Buu.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:26 pm

HeroR wrote:Trying to say I am the only one here saying this is just dishonest. Especially when it's literally just the same people with no new ones except every blue moon. This isn't the only forum that talk about power levels.
There's nothing "dishonest" about a simple fact and I'm not entirely sure you even understand the meaning of that word. Actually, none of what you're saying here has any relation to the fact that literally nobody in this thread agrees with your point.
The 'most durable character' got killed effortlessly by Super Saiyan Trunks chopping him up when he's off-guard.
Yeah, that one. The one that got ripped in half, survived being left in pieces from a planetary explosion, the one Trunks had to slice into tiny microscopic portions of nothing just to ensure he was dead. The one that then trained and became presumably as strong or nearly as strong as a Super Saiyan God, or ar least tons of times stronger than he was previously, just in his final form.
I named a situation why this mindset is flawed. Vegeta transforming isn't evidence that he needed to no matter how you spin it.
I'm not spinning anything, you are. Most people view this scene exactly for what it was - Vegeta transformed into a Super Saiyan in order to oneshot Frost. You're the only person in this entire thread right now who is trying to posit the extraneous, wholly unfounded assumption that Vegeta didn't need to do this and overcompensated for no reason. No average viewer of the episode would even get that impression.

Even if you had the means to prove that your other examples are true (and you don't, at all) that still doesn't automatically prove that Vegeta didn't need to go Super Saiyan. In reality, this is nothing more than another one of those situations where you're yet again trying to posit something that you have utterly failed to support.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by buutenks » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:19 pm

OK Hero, why did Vegeta go ssj if he could one shot Frost in base form?

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:01 pm

I find it interesting that Super Saiyan Gohan can keep up with Super Saiyan Goku (Ep. 75)

And

Super Saiyan Goku is able to block a blast from Whis (Ep. 77).

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Draconic » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:01 pm

Disclaimer: Long and convoluted post, but please bear with me here for a bit. :D

What if in the Ressurection F arc neither Goku nor Freeza are really that ahead of everybody outside of their Blue/Golden forms?

We know in Battle of Gods Goku's base was weaker than Freeza, but after Whis' training he managed to get strong enough to defeat him as he was on Namek. In this case, his God power was lost after the battle with Beerus. He would be able to use God Ki, as it was still inside him, but only after achieving Blue.

Freeza's training on the other hand has all been about learning to master Ki control, so his forms aren't necessarily supressing his power anymore. This could make him about as strong as his Final Form even in his First Form, only gaining marginal power by transforming outside of his Golden form.

This would mean that Gohan got as weak as a Namek era Super Saiyan. In the movie, Freeza one-shots him in his base form, while in Super, even though Gohan is a Super Saiyan, Freeza cheap shots him while he is talking with Ginyu.

Piccolo is also not really shown to be fighting at full power, which we can take away from him not taking off his weighted clothes at all, otherwise this would be the only time in any series that Piccolo is using his full strength while clothed. This might be the reason he doesn't seem stronger than Gohan, in the arc at least.

So what we would have is:

F base Gohan ~ Namek Goku
F SSJ Gohan ~ Namek SSJ Goku
Piccolo Full Power ~ Cell Jr
Piccolo weighted ~ Namek Vegeta
F First Form Freeza ~ Namek 100% Freeza
F Final Form Freeza ~ Mecha Freeza
F base Goku ~ Yardrat SSJ Goku

This means that Goku's Super Saiyan form in the U6 arc and subsequent appearences is still as powerful as his Buu arc version, or the Full Power Super Saiyan, with his base being around as strong as a weak Super Saiyan or Android level opponent, but weaker than the mastered form.
Therfore, after regaining his strength in the recent episode, Gohan is finally back to matching his father in Super Saiyan, while being weaker in base, just like we see in that fight.

Even the statement about Shisami and Tagoma being around as strong as Zarbon and Dodoria works, with Shisami being nothing to base Gohan, while Tagoma who trained with Freeza reached the level of his Emperor's Final Form on Namek.

The stuff that doesn't work is this is assuming Piccolo could have taken on even Freeza's Final Form if he was serious, but it is possible he, like everybody else, knew he must be hiding something up his sleeve. Of course, in this case Piccolo should have just powered up a bit and trashed Tagoma, but he might have wanted to keep his power in case they had to take on Freeza himself (akin to his dumb plan to let Gero one shot him). And not just that, but instead of dying like an idiot he could have tanked Freeza's blast, but again, maybe everything happened too fast for him to do anything (kinda like how Gohan's arm got busted when he protected Cell).

I would explain that again by Freeza's training. He learned Ki control so he might have been able to use more power than usual in his Final Form or than what he showed Goku, but decided to go Golden since he knew his opponent was holding back his transformation too. In this case, while Freeza vs Goku was a battle held at a bit above the powers of their initial battle on Namek, neither was serious until transforming. They pretty much tested eachother to see how much they improved since then.

Then, the only other instance of the base forms being God level is in the Potafeu arc, when Copy-Vegeta was tanking SSJ3 Gotenks. This could be handwaved as stupid filler that Toriyama doesn't take into account when writing any of his stories. Or, as an explanation, the Water is unkillable anyway, without destroying the heart-shard-thing, so Gotenks wouldn't have been able to hurt Copy-Vegeta no matter how hard he tried. Goku wasn't doing any damage either and for a fact he is about equal to Vegeta at this point.

So in conclusion, everybody, outside of the God/Golden/Rage forms is pretty much at exactly the same levels as before, only that Goku, Vegeta and Freeza can raise their powers even further than before, but not enough that transforming isn't still a viable option.

Black is only as strong as SSJ3 in base because Zamasu was already SSJ2 level and he transfered his power to Goku's body and then got power ups from fighting Trunks.
Trunks is able to match kid Trunks' SSJ form in base because he learned to also raise his powers more than usual in his base form, as seen when he deflect Black's blasts in the first episode of the arc without transforming, but when going on the attack next episode, he does indeed transform.

I know this is twisting everything that happens in RoF to pretty absurd levels, but the story is absurdly written itself.
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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:59 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
HeroR wrote:Trying to say I am the only one here saying this is just dishonest. Especially when it's literally just the same people with no new ones except every blue moon. This isn't the only forum that talk about power levels.
There's nothing "dishonest" about a simple fact and I'm not entirely sure you even understand the meaning of that word. Actually, none of what you're saying here has any relation to the fact that literally nobody in this thread agrees with your point.
The 'most durable character' got killed effortlessly by Super Saiyan Trunks chopping him up when he's off-guard.
Yeah, that one. The one that got ripped in half, survived being left in pieces from a planetary explosion, the one Trunks had to slice into tiny microscopic portions of nothing just to ensure he was dead. The one that then trained and became presumably as strong or nearly as strong as a Super Saiyan God, or ar least tons of times stronger than he was previously, just in his final form.
I named a situation why this mindset is flawed. Vegeta transforming isn't evidence that he needed to no matter how you spin it.
I'm not spinning anything, you are. Most people view this scene exactly for what it was - Vegeta transformed into a Super Saiyan in order to oneshot Frost. You're the only person in this entire thread right now who is trying to posit the extraneous, wholly unfounded assumption that Vegeta didn't need to do this and overcompensated for no reason. No average viewer of the episode would even get that impression.

Even if you had the means to prove that your other examples are true (and you don't, at all) that still doesn't automatically prove that Vegeta didn't need to go Super Saiyan. In reality, this is nothing more than another one of those situations where you're yet again trying to posit something that you have utterly failed to support.
Niether was you saying that I was the only one making this argument. It had nothing to do with the subject and only existed to undermine what I have been saying.

Freeza isn't Cell. Goku can have killed him by teleporting to his face and doing a pointblank Kamehameha to his face, blowing his head off. Guess what, Freeza would be dead, especially when base form Goku nearly killed a fresh final form Freeza with a half-ass Kamehameha. There was no reason for him to used Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan other than a pure overkill approached. He didn't need to transform.

Nope, you're spinning since you're trying to say that Goku needed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to kill Freeza when he clearly didn't with 'oh, he's durable'. The people here are the same people who have been pushing this idea for almost a year that Vegeta needed to transform. That is hardly represented of the larger fanbase, so much an echo chamber. The 'average' viewer wouldn't care why Vegeta transformed since it looked cool seeing Vegeta waste Frost. Just as the average viewer wouldn't care how Piccolo blocked hits from Frost despite the power different.

Same for your since you have no support that Vegeta needed to transform other than 'he transformed'. A flawed basic for a flawed theory.

Bullza wrote:In other news, the preview for the upcoming chapter mentions how Buu is at a disadvantage against Basil but still laughs anyway.

Obviously it's too early to say too much but it's fun to speculate. Perhaps this Basil actually is stronger than Buu which could make him at least Kid Buu level perhaps? But it doesn't matter because Buu's regeneration and magic allow him to win in the end.

So if Basil does end up being stronger than Buu then it'll be interesting to see how Bergamo stacks up compared to Goku. Is Bergamo going to be stronger than Basil and then Base Goku is gonna be stronger still and that is what leads to Bergamo using the poison?

There's every opportunity to show that Base Goku is still indeed above Buu.
Buu's magic and regeneration certainly didn't make him win against Kid Buu who nearly beat him to death with brute force alone. The same with Evil Buu.

Draconic wrote:Disclaimer: Long and convoluted post, but please bear with me here for a bit. :D

What if in the Ressurection F arc neither Goku nor Freeza are really that ahead of everybody outside of their Blue/Golden forms?

We know in Battle of Gods Goku's base was weaker than Freeza, but after Whis' training he managed to get strong enough to defeat him as he was on Namek. In this case, his God power was lost after the battle with Beerus. He would be able to use God Ki, as it was still inside him, but only after achieving Blue.

Freeza's training on the other hand has all been about learning to master Ki control, so his forms aren't necessarily supressing his power anymore. This could make him about as strong as his Final Form even in his First Form, only gaining marginal power by transforming outside of his Golden form.

This would mean that Gohan got as weak as a Namek era Super Saiyan. In the movie, Freeza one-shots him in his base form, while in Super, even though Gohan is a Super Saiyan, Freeza cheap shots him while he is talking with Ginyu.

Piccolo is also not really shown to be fighting at full power, which we can take away from him not taking off his weighted clothes at all, otherwise this would be the only time in any series that Piccolo is using his full strength while clothed. This might be the reason he doesn't seem stronger than Gohan, in the arc at least.

So what we would have is:

F base Gohan ~ Namek Goku
F SSJ Gohan ~ Namek SSJ Goku
Piccolo Full Power ~ Cell Jr
Piccolo weighted ~ Namek Vegeta
F First Form Freeza ~ Namek 100% Freeza
F Final Form Freeza ~ Mecha Freeza
F base Goku ~ Yardrat SSJ Goku

This means that Goku's Super Saiyan form in the U6 arc and subsequent appearences is still as powerful as his Buu arc version, or the Full Power Super Saiyan, with his base being around as strong as a weak Super Saiyan or Android level opponent, but weaker than the mastered form.
Therfore, after regaining his strength in the recent episode, Gohan is finally back to matching his father in Super Saiyan, while being weaker in base, just like we see in that fight.

Even the statement about Shisami and Tagoma being around as strong as Zarbon and Dodoria works, with Shisami being nothing to base Gohan, while Tagoma who trained with Freeza reached the level of his Emperor's Final Form on Namek.

The stuff that doesn't work is this is assuming Piccolo could have taken on even Freeza's Final Form if he was serious, but it is possible he, like everybody else, knew he must be hiding something up his sleeve. Of course, in this case Piccolo should have just powered up a bit and trashed Tagoma, but he might have wanted to keep his power in case they had to take on Freeza himself (akin to his dumb plan to let Gero one shot him). And not just that, but instead of dying like an idiot he could have tanked Freeza's blast, but again, maybe everything happened too fast for him to do anything (kinda like how Gohan's arm got busted when he protected Cell).

I would explain that again by Freeza's training. He learned Ki control so he might have been able to use more power than usual in his Final Form or than what he showed Goku, but decided to go Golden since he knew his opponent was holding back his transformation too. In this case, while Freeza vs Goku was a battle held at a bit above the powers of their initial battle on Namek, neither was serious until transforming. They pretty much tested eachother to see how much they improved since then.

Then, the only other instance of the base forms being God level is in the Potafeu arc, when Copy-Vegeta was tanking SSJ3 Gotenks. This could be handwaved as stupid filler that Toriyama doesn't take into account when writing any of his stories. Or, as an explanation, the Water is unkillable anyway, without destroying the heart-shard-thing, so Gotenks wouldn't have been able to hurt Copy-Vegeta no matter how hard he tried. Goku wasn't doing any damage either and for a fact he is about equal to Vegeta at this point.

So in conclusion, everybody, outside of the God/Golden/Rage forms is pretty much at exactly the same levels as before, only that Goku, Vegeta and Freeza can raise their powers even further than before, but not enough that transforming isn't still a viable option.

Black is only as strong as SSJ3 in base because Zamasu was already SSJ2 level and he transfered his power to Goku's body and then got power ups from fighting Trunks.
Trunks is able to match kid Trunks' SSJ form in base because he learned to also raise his powers more than usual in his base form, as seen when he deflect Black's blasts in the first episode of the arc without transforming, but when going on the attack next episode, he does indeed transform.

I know this is twisting everything that happens in RoF to pretty absurd levels, but the story is absurdly written itself.
Nothing was ever said about Goku losing his god power after his match with Beerus. If he did, Vegeta would be way ahead of Goku since he trained with Whis for six months just to catch up to where Goku was.

Gohan can't be as weak as his Namek Saga self since he's base form is stronger than Piccolo and Piccolo always trained, confirmed by Toriyama himself. Him wearing weights also wouldn't pushed his power so far down that he would be weaker than Gohan, especially after Tagoma no sold an attack and ripped his arm off. And Freeza only cheap shot Gohan on the shoulder. The rest, Gohan was fully aware of and still got holes put through him. We then have base form Goku deflect a Death Beam like it was a fly.

It was never said that Shisami and Tagoma were only as strong Zarbon and Dodoria. It said there were on the same level or rank. And Piccolo would instantly killed someone as strong as final from Freeza. Android 20 was stronger than Freeza and Piccolo wasted him and that was before he merged with Kami. To say that Piccolo was being stupid is just insulting to his character. Especially since Piccolo said in the movie that all of them attacking together couldn't do anything to Frieza.

Freeza was clearly frustrated that he was losing to base form Goku and couldn't even touch him. If he had more power that could have pushed or even kill Goku, he would have used it. He didn't. That was the best he had until he became Golden Freeza. Freeza was dead serious, Goku wasn't.

You're forgetting Episode 42 where Goku fought Beerus in his base form when he was pretending to be Monaka. The same Beerus who two-shotted Super Saiyan 3 Goku without trying.

This isn't just twisting. This is severe underplay of Freeza and Piccolo's power.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:54 am

Buu's magic and regeneration certainly didn't make him win against Kid Buu who nearly beat him to death with brute force alone. The same with Evil Buu.
Well that's because he has the same powers. They also did comment on how their power does drop when fighting against another Buu.

Otherwise yeah Basil could be stronger and faster but not enough so to really surpass Buu's regeneration. Maybe he'll turn him into chocolate or something.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:12 am

Bullza wrote:
Buu's magic and regeneration certainly didn't make him win against Kid Buu who nearly beat him to death with brute force alone. The same with Evil Buu.
Well that's because he has the same powers. They also did comment on how their power does drop when fighting against another Buu.

Otherwise yeah Basil could be stronger and faster but not enough so to really surpass Buu's regeneration. Maybe he'll turn him into chocolate or something.
It has little to do with them being both Buus. Evil and Kid Buu were much stronger than Fat Buu and they overwhelmed his ability to heal, just like Gohan, Gotenks, and Vegetto nearly beat Super Buu to death using brute force. Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks is the stand out example since he actually bruised up Super Buu and was going to kill him until their fusion broke and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was more or less equal to Super Buu.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ShinTenshin » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:19 am

Against Majin Vegeta (in the beginning), Buu was in difficulty. And with just one attack, he change the situation. After, he was as strong as SS3 Goku that is far far stronger than Majin Vegeta. Buu is like a children, he love to play with his opponents. So Majin Buu can easily increase his power whenever he want ! Basile will dominate Buu, until the last one show his True power.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:10 am

It has little to do with them being both Buus. Evil and Kid Buu were much stronger than Fat Buu and they overwhelmed his ability to heal, just like Gohan, Gotenks, and Vegetto nearly beat Super Buu to death using brute force.
Theres no little about it. They specifically said that their power goes down and they can be hurt when fighting against another Buu. Kid Buu's power never dropped when fighting Goku.

They also never mentioned Buu being almost being beaten to death and he regenerated each time.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:14 am

Bullza wrote:
It has little to do with them being both Buus. Evil and Kid Buu were much stronger than Fat Buu and they overwhelmed his ability to heal, just like Gohan, Gotenks, and Vegetto nearly beat Super Buu to death using brute force.
Theres no little about it. They specifically said that their power goes down and they can be hurt when fighting against another Buu. Kid Buu's power never dropped when fighting Goku.

They also never mentioned Buu being almost being beaten to death and he regenerated each time.
His power goes down by getting beating up, not just by fighting another Buu. Where are you getting that Buu's power only drops when fighting another Buu. What chapter is that from?
ShinTenshin wrote:Against Majin Vegeta (in the beginning), Buu was in difficulty. And with just one attack, he change the situation. After, he was as strong as SS3 Goku that is far far stronger than Majin Vegeta. Buu is like a children, he love to play with his opponents. So Majin Buu can easily increase his power whenever he want ! Basile will dominate Buu, until the last one show his True power.
Buu has limits. His power isn't bottomless. Also, Fat Buu is weaker than he was before since most of his power went into Evil and Kid Buu. He isn't as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:26 pm

His power goes down by getting beating up, not just by fighting another Buu. Where are you getting that Buu's power only drops when fighting another Buu. What chapter is that from?
No that's not true because Goku said after his fight with him about Kid Buu that "His chi never goes down a bit!".

Then later on when Good Buu is fighting Kid Buu, Vegeta says "Have you noticed Kakarrot? The fat one's power is going down....they can get hurt when they're fighting another Buu." That was Chapter 320.

Obviously it'd be a redundant thing to say if their power goes down fighting anyone and the first quote proves they don't anyway.

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:37 pm

Majin Boo was chosen over Piccolo to fight in the preliminaries. Does this pretty much kill the whole Base Saiyan have God ki theory?

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Re: Official Unofficial "Dragon Ball Super" Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:40 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Majin Boo was chosen over Piccolo to fight in the preliminaries. Does this pretty much kill the whole Base Saiyan have God ki theory?
Totally does for me. There's no way you can keep them that strong and then pick Fat Boo as better than Piccolo when Piccolo should be entire leagues ahead of him in power.
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