"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

He could just be displeased at the changes they made to BoG and F, or the way Toei is portraying the characters. Toriyama has stated that he dislikes the way Toei portrays Goku, after all. Although I think Toei has been doing a good job in Super of keeping him consistent with Toriyama's portrayal of the character.

[Cipher]

He could just be displeased at the changes they made to BoG and F, or the way Toei is portraying the characters. Toriyama has stated that he dislikes the way Toei portrays Goku, after all. Although I think Toei has been doing a good job in Super of keeping him consistent with Toriyama's portrayal of the character.

That's very plausible and would bode equally well. It's also something Toriyama, based on past reactions, might feel more comfortable speaking to.

In this case what trips me up are the the nuances of the word for "quality" used here -- I don't know enough to read into it one way or the other (it's deki, the stem of the verb dekiru, or "can," so, like "output," basically, but maybe it has shades of "potential" or even "ability" here? -- help, kei/Herms!), but at a glance that seems to speak more to production than character beats.

[Chuquita]

If it has to do with the animation; I wonder if the displeasure would be at how Super looks on its own, or if it has to do with how Super looks in comparison to Toei's other concurrently running animated shows (like a "here's how good a job Toei can do, and here's what Super looks like" kind of thing).

The latter seems more justified.

The Reddit thread Faustus linked to above contains a Twitter quote from an upcoming animator:

"Dragon ______, where I'm working at the moment, is beyond help. The animation director can only check the layout for the next 10 days. No matter what, the quality can't be guaranteed. Who messed the schedule up, and when?"

So it does seem unusually troubled. That could also help explain my complaint with the series -- that much more so than the animation being stiff, or characters off-model, it just feels blandly and sloppily directed. Looks like there's a lack of time from square one.

It's especially noticeable when you look at Toei's Go! Princess Precure or (from what I've heard) the recent Shida episode of One Piece.
Look https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/17105 ... ess_precur how https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/18314 ... ncess_prec beautifully https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/15482 ... ncess_prec animated https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/19880 ... -_princess_ Go!Pri is. If Toriyama saw clips from that after seeing some of Super I could definitely see why he'd be upset with Super.

[JulieYBM]

If Toriyama is not pleased with the animation I doubt it has to do with the animation not being as good as the others, that would imply he watches other series. If anything he was probably informed of internet comments and isn't pleased about those.

Dragon Ball animation won't be as good as PreCure's just because Toriyama wants it, either. The staff who work on PreCure are all huge fans of it and drawing cute girls in general, so it's bound to be inspired. Extra time for animators like Tate Naoki to work on their episodes would be the best course of action at this point. If we can't have enough time for Tate to teach new animators the next best thing would be at least giving him enough time to do all of the action in his episodes himself.

[FortuneSSJ]

-Opening/Titlte screen-
Now with Champa's arc officially kicking off this week, they better update the opening with some new characters.
Champa silhouette also in the title screen.

[emperior]

now that I think about it, it's called the Champa arc, could Champa turn out to be the villain?

[Araki]

It was announced that to celebrate the new arc and the 30th anniversary, a special newspaper will be distributed this Saturday in various points of Japan. Hopefully we get to see scans soon.

[successoroffate]

now that I think about it, it's called the Champa arc, could Champa turn out to be the villain?

Well, someone has to be the bad guy eventually. I believe one of those guys from U6 is turning on the Z warriors eventually. But if Beerus and Champa really have like a sibling relationship kind of thing, then I doubt it would be Champa turning "Heel."

I would love for Frost to be the new bad guy, something a la "Ize" from AF would be nice.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

If Toriyama is not pleased with the animation I doubt it has to do with the animation not being as good as the others, that would imply he watches other series. If anything he was probably informed of internet comments and isn't pleased about those.

Dragon Ball animation won't be as good as PreCure's just because Toriyama wants it, either. The staff who work on PreCure are all huge fans of it and drawing cute girls in general, so it's bound to be inspired. Extra time for animators like Tate Naoki to work on their episodes would be the best course of action at this point. If we can't have enough time for Tate to teach new animators the next best thing would be at least giving him enough time to do all of the action in his episodes himself.

The animation supervisors all had 7 weeks (8 if you count the break) after their assigned episodes, and after the Toriyama's comment, so hopefully things will get better at some point.

Perhaps the production committee and Chioka can come up with some kind of strategy to allow more time and bring out the best from the key animators. I will be happy even if they were given even slight time to correct key animators' drawings.

[JulieYBM]

Just because there was seven weeks between episodes it doesn't mean animators worked on those episodes for those entire seven weeks.

I asked Vale, a production assistant in the animation industry, if he had heard anything about what was going on with Dragon Ball Super. All he knows:

Would you happen to have any idea of just what is happening on the production of Dragon Ball Super, even if only second hand knowledge?

Trouble. Quite. Don't know the exact details, all I hear is that "it's tough."

[DainIronfoot]

now that I think about it, it's called the Champa arc, could Champa turn out to be the villain?

Well, someone has to be the bad guy eventually. I believe one of those guys from U6 is turning on the Z warriors eventually. But if Beerus and Champa really have like a sibling relationship kind of thing, then I doubt it would be Champa turning "Heel."

I would love for Frost to be the new bad guy, something a la "Ize" from AF would be nice.

I don't think Frost is going to be a villain. If anything, I think he's going to be helping our guys fight whoever is the villain. Piccolo stated that he doesn't feel an evil aura from Frost, I think he's a good emperor.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

So, it's pretty much impossible to improve the production, then?

[Basaku]

Well, someone has to be the bad guy eventually.

Or not. Massive battle at the end of the tournament could be just as grand as Freeza/Cell/Buu endings without having the opponent be evil, simply forced by Champa to take part in the tournament. Hit could be in that role.

[sintzu]

If Beerus and Champa really have like a sibling relationship kind of thing, then I doubt it would be Champa turning "Heel."

Based on the way Champa is acting and trying to secretly find the Dragon Balls, I think that sibling relationship might be one sided.

[JulieYBM]

So, it's pretty much impossible to improve the production, then?

It's not impossible, it's just unlikely given the circumstances of what each party wants and needs. I could think of a few good ideas off the top of my head but that doesn't mean everyone can agree to them or find the man power to pull them off.

1. Determine how long the series will run. Will it in after only four cours or will it continue longer? The better an idea one has of when the series is going to end the easier it should be to plan when they need to have episode in production.
2. Get scripts finished quicker. Try to get all of the writers (Koyama, Fukushima, King Ryuu, et cetera) to focus entirely on Dragon Ball Super. One can usually finish two scripts in a month. The more scripts finished the easier it will be to have them adapted into storyboards.
3. Get storyboards finished faster. This might mean producing some terrible storyboards but whatever gets a surplus ready, the better. Shida, Kaizawa, Komura, Satou, Iwai: whoever is available needs to pump out boards quickly.
4. Increase the length of the recap segments at the beginning of each episode to five minutes or more. The less number of cuts and drawings needed per episode the easier it will be on the production team to get an episode finished. Fuji TV might not like this plan, though, because it could ward off viewers.
5. With a surplus of storyboards finished assign them to key animators to start working on, even if you don't have animation supervisors or episode directors selected for the episode yet. The more storyboards you have finished the easier it should be to convince a freelance animator to stick around rather than go in search of their next job. They'll have more work to do, after all.
6. If an animator needs work, get them to storyboard, even if they have no experience with it. There should be a surplus of finished scripts already, right? The longer the series lasts the easier it will be to build up a surplus of episodes, which will mean a surplus of time, and eventually get the series back on track. Again, it may mean some terrible episodes for a stretch, but it could also mean better episodes down the line where things have stabilized enough for the number of staff used can condense.

Mind you, these ideas are based merely on the small amount of information I have. For all I know none of it is possible.

[Ajay]

1. With a surplus of storyboards finished assign them to key animators to start working on, even if you don't have animation supervisors or episode directors selected for the episode yet. The more storyboards you have finished the easier it should be to convince a freelance animator to stick around rather than go in search of their next job. They'll have more work to do, after all.

This, so much. One Piece has upwards of 7 minutes recaps for some of the episodes that lead up to important scenes. Yeah, it's pretty infuriating for the uninitiated, but damn, I'd rather take that over a shoddy full episode.

[alakazam^]

Maybe Frost is unhappy being the emperor of Universe 6 and only sticks to it because that's what his family/everyone expects. He'll then step down and join Goku's gang.

I don't think anyone has suggested this but what if some of the fighters have been forced by Champa to participate? If so, this couold mean they have some sort of grudge towards him (although it would also mean they are weaker).

[FortuneSSJ]

[*]Increase the length of the recap segments at the beginning of each episode to five minutes or more. The less number of cuts and drawings needed per episode the easier it will be on the production team to get an episode finished. Fuji TV might not like this plan, though, because it could ward off viewers.

This would cause more harm than good. There would be more people bitching about, because they wouldn't understand the reason behind this.
I'm actually surprised how short the recaps are, but make them reach One Piece levels would be absurd.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I don't really know that I'd get behind that trade off either. Getting better animated episodes would be great, but holy crap would the pacing (which outside of how long Goku and Beerus' fight felt, has been fine at least to me) take way too much of a hit in return. Maybe 3 minute or so recaps (and hopefully not all of it literally being 'narrator talking about stuff' style but more so just showing us the last little bit of the previous episode again), but even that would be stretching it. But seven? Good lord does that make me dread getting further into the One Piece anime if that's what they've been doing lately.

Even just from outside looking in, since animation and what makes it click isn't my area of expertise, it seems like the biggest problem they have is just not having the time to really make the show and crunching it out anyway. I can't help but think it might have been better if they'd just went ahead and done Digimon Adventure Tri as a series as originally planned, and only have Super come into being once that was done.

[Chuquita]

I can't get behind 7 minute recaps. I can't. It'd be way too much and it still wouldn't get us to Precure levels of animation.