Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[JoeCapricorn]

First off, I think we need to forget about the "Goku being a 6, Beerus a 10 and Whis a 15" statement... that was made all the way back when Battle of Gods was released.

Dragon Ball Super is clearly using a different scale of power.

Another alternative explanation is that God ki isn't multiplied by Kaio-ken, pushing a SSB Goku at a 7 to maybe a 9 or even 10, when he goes Kaio-ken x 10.

On the other hand, this latest episode was pretty clear that his power was doubling, tripling, quadrupling and then dectupling if that word even exists.

So, here is my guess on power levels given the latest bit of information.

Goku, Super Saiyan God = about 6 kajillion
Beerus = 10 kajillion
Whis = 15 kajillion
Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta = 0.6 kajillion
Golden Frieza = 0.8 kajillion
Goku and Vegeta post training = 0.8 kajillion

Champa = 9.8 kajillion
Vados = 15.1 kajillion
Hit, maximum power = 8 kajillion
Goku, Super Saiyan Blue, Kaio-ken x 10 = 8 kajillion

So what I am implying is that Super Saiyan God is far beyond Super Saiyan Blue, and Super Saiyan Blue is itself far beyond Super Saiyan 3 - thus the "kajillion"
Yes, SSB has God ki, but so does Dende, and he is power level 20,000 at most - with most of that power being in mystical abilities, not physical strength.

I don't think either Goku or Vegeta have quite mastered God ki. Goku had a firm handle on it after Super Saiyan God wore off, so he stayed in the neighborhood of six kajillion, and he remained at around a 0.6 afterward, but that is still far beyond Super Saiyan 3, which may be around 0.006.

[buutenks]

That just shows how op beerus is. Also means whis and vados are true power monsters.

I wonder when we'll have an sample of their full power, I really want see Beerus fighting 100%, Whis and Vados too.

Probably never.

Awww, why so pessimistic ^^

[Chiki]

So what I am implying is that Super Saiyan God is far beyond Super Saiyan Blue

The narrator in ep 25 or 26 said that SSB surpasses SSG, so no.

[buutenks]

ssjb being below ssg would fix allot of things, tho, its stated by the narrator, even beerus that ssj blue has surpassed ssg,so... Plus, considering this show is about progress, i doubt theyd make goku and vegeta weaker.

So, most likely beerus is simply that much more powerful than ssg and ssjblue.

[Chiki]

If Beerus 10% > SSG Goku, why was Beerus scared and nervous about fighting of Kaioken (normal Kaioken, not x10) SSB Goku? Didn't you guys see his face?

[Bullza]

Vegeta doesn't have to be close to 10%. Just consider it as him powering up more than need be.

How powerful would you have Vegeta? 2%?

Well under the (now surely) assumption that Beerus was heavily compensating when he powered up he could be at any level.

So he could be just a few times as strong as SSJ3 Goku. He doesn't have to be as ridiculously strong as Vegito anymore.

[buutenks]

If Beerus 10% > SSG Goku, why was Beerus scared and nervous about fighting of Kaioken (normal Kaioken, not x10) SSB Goku? Didn't you guys see his face?

So, then how about we just go by what is shown in the anime then? Interviews r nice and dandy but really most never read them so they got the anime to look at.

So based on anime beerus is slightly nervous about kk goku and then goku uses 10x

so

beerus 15
ssjb 7
kk 14
kkx10 70

^^

[RandomGuy96]

To me, the weirdest thing about this situation is that Beerus already seems fairly panicked when Goku first starts using the Kaio-Ken, even before he kicks it up to x3, and Whis is of the opinion that Goku at just that level could be a serious problem for Beerus. Then Goku gets many times stronger in the next few seconds, and Beerus is somehow stronger still? Something fishy is going on here.

[namekiansaiyan]

I wonder when we'll have an sample of their full power, I really want see Beerus fighting 100%, Whis and Vados too.

Probably never.

Awww, why so pessimistic ^^

Because that is the point of Beerus, Champa, Vados and Whis, they are characters that will be stronger than Goku so he keeps getting stronger.

[buutenks]

To me, the weirdest thing about this situation is that Beerus already seems fairly panicked when Goku first starts using the Kaio-Ken, even before he kicks it up to x3, and Whis is of the opinion that Goku at just that level could be a serious problem for Beerus. Then Goku gets many times stronger in the next few seconds, and Beerus is somehow stronger still? Something fishy is going on here.

According to the anime, aka those scenes kkx10 goku would temporarily surpass berrus.

All we got against that is the interview, which it being an interview is something most wouldnt see. So id say just go with what the anime and perhaps manga shows once it gets there.

I always went with the idea that, if its not in the original material, be it manga or anime ,which ever is the main one, even if the creator says in an interview something i just ignore it, since the creator could easily be contradicting himself or not talking seriously.

[TheMikado]

To me, the weirdest thing about this situation is that Beerus already seems fairly panicked when Goku first starts using the Kaio-Ken, even before he kicks it up to x3, and Whis is of the opinion that Goku at just that level could be a serious problem for Beerus. Then Goku gets many times stronger in the next few seconds, and Beerus is somehow stronger still? Something fishy is going on here.

Lol yup that's absolutely correct. We literally have no idea what's going and how strong anyone is if they are even stronger at all at this point. Just a single Kaioken if Goku was just a 6 on the 6-10-15 would be a problem for Beerus. It seems like that at most SSB is like half of Beerus power at his weakest and that Kaioken is multiplied by that which is still more consistent but taking the SSB levels into account with what we have previously seen so far.

[JoeCapricorn]

It could be that Goku exceeds Beerus with his Kaio-ken... (I know I may have contradicted myself already, but I'm really just thinking with my keyboard) This may also mean that Hit exceeds Beerus as well.

But what about Whis? Maybe Beerus is at a 10, and Whis is at 150?

Or maybe we'll never know the full extent of Whis and Vados' power. I think both are neutral players in the grand scheme of things, so there's no reason they would be either an antagonist or a protagonist.

I think if the "leak" about Champa trying to destroy his Universe 6 fighters out of anger is true, we might get to see how powerful he is. Especially if he is dispatched by either Goku or Hit.

[Lord Beerus]

With all the material we have across the 4 series, I'm surprised they haven't released a power level guide book that explains where everyone stands in each arc.

I think it would be too much effort considering how much material in the anime often contradict itself. Especially with GT and Super.

[buutenks]

Imagine, if there was a guide book for PL. 100% from toriyama himself.

This thread would proly not exist ^^ or not be so long, which would be boring.

I suspect, that once db super is done, which I'm hoping wont be for quite some time, most will make sense.

[TheMikado]

With all the material we have across the 4 series, I'm surprised they haven't released a power level guide book that explains where everyone stands in each arc.

I think it would be too much effort considering how much material in the anime often contradict itself. Especially with GT and Super.

I sound like I broken record but GT was not this bad. Power levels and dramatics can be inconsistent sometimes but this is a whole new level in Super.

[Chiki]

Seems like you guys are starting to accept the 6-10-15 scale again? I personally am after seeing those 2 screenshots (well, as I watched the episode).

SSB Goku = 7-9
Beerus = 10
Whis = 15
Kaioken SSB Goku = 14-18
Kaioken x10 SSB Goku = 70-90

The main problem here is, why can't x10 Goku just OHKO Whis?

We know for sure though, at the very least, Kaioken SSB Goku is equal to or stronger than Beerus. This cannot be denied after that conversation.

[Lord Beerus]

With all the material we have across the 4 series, I'm surprised they haven't released a power level guide book that explains where everyone stands in each arc.

I think it would be too much effort considering how much material in the anime often contradict itself. Especially with GT and Super.

I sound like I broken record but GT was not this bad. Power levels and dramatics can be inconsistent sometimes but this is a whole new level in Super.

Once Goku mentioned that Rild had a ki greater than Majin Boo, everything was thrown out of wack. We still to this day truly don't know how strong Pan, Piccolo, Goten, Gohan and Trunks are in GT.

[FuriusMarius]

I know it sounds stupid but to make sense should be like this.

(Base Goku power x ssj blue) + (Base Goku Power x Kaio Ken x10)

For Example:

Goku base (4x20)+ (4x10)= 120

Goku Base: 4
Goku ssjb: 80
Goku ssjb kaio ken: 120

Still almost 2 times stronger than ssj blue... but is not a exaggeration.

Otherwise:
base x20 x10
Goku ssj kaio ken: 800

is just toooo crazy

[Draconic]

I really hope I will not sound like an asshole, but everytime someone jumped to a theory with no basis, the next episode proved how wrong it was. First was the "Goku threw the fight against Frost" theory, then the two base theory. Now we have people jumping on the Goku>Beerus theory. I'm not saying it's not possible, but don't jump to conclusions when we don't have the full story and what we have is pointing in a different direction. Beerus dismissed the idea of Goku giving him trouble, Whis doesn't seem worried at all he's been surpassed, Vegeta only comments that Goku surpassed him, not everybody else and to further that up we have a Toriyama statement saying he isn't planning on Goku surpassing Beerus. Let's wait and see. Nothing is confirmed and we shouldn't treat it as that.

[Birusu16]

It could be that Goku exceeds Beerus with his Kaio-ken... (I know I may have contradicted myself already, but I'm really just thinking with my keyboard) This may also mean that Hit exceeds Beerus as well.

But what about Whis? Maybe Beerus is at a 10, and Whis is at 150?

Or maybe we'll never know the full extent of Whis and Vados' power. I think both are neutral players in the grand scheme of things, so there's no reason they would be either an antagonist or a protagonist.

I think if the "leak" about Champa trying to destroy his Universe 6 fighters out of anger is true, we might get to see how powerful he is. Especially if he is dispatched by either Goku or Hit.

Except he doesn't. Hit is having no problem taking attacks from Goku head on without the slightest bit of trouble and he's implied to be significantly weaker than Champa seeing as the latter has him and the rest of the U6 team shaking in fear as he's about to destroy all of them for losing according to the episode 40 summary.