alakazam^ wrote:So what? They're allowed to try, aren't they?
Vegeta_Sama wrote:Are they just supposed to throw themselves out of bounds without even trying to fight in the last 30 seconds of the tournament? What do you expect them to do? No offense, but this way of thinking is just stupid.
Again:
I'm not arguing that Jiren should win no matter what, just that was a terrible choice to have Goku out of comission while 17 and Freeza take on Jiren, when they could have Jiren blasting Goku off stage and Freeza doing the same with Jiren by blasting him on his back.
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I'm not arguing that Jiren should win no matter what, just that was a terrible choice to have Goku out of comission while 17 and Freeza take on Jiren, when they could have Jiren blasting Goku off stage and Freeza doing the same with Jiren by blasting him on his back.
I think we should wait for the final episode before we judge this, since we still don't know what they have in store for us
jeffbr92 wrote:I'm not arguing that Jiren should win no matter what, just that was a terrible choice to have Goku out of comission while 17 and Freeza take on Jiren, when they could have Jiren blasting Goku off stage and Freeza doing the same with Jiren by blasting him on his back.
Except this goes against your own logic that they can't do anything against Geran, the titan.
Some people seem to have a problem with how Jiren acted this episode but for me it's the first time I had any real interest in the character. Another thing that some people didn't like that I liked was 17 coming back, I do agree that his return was odd and could have been done better, but boy am I glad he's back. I didn't think we'd be getting Freeza and 17 with Goku vs Jiren as I thought this arc would end with only Goku vs Jiren. Now wether or not 17 and Freeza actually do anything to Jiren has yet to be seen, but I hope they do, though I still won't be surprised if Goku gets the win in the end.
Oh shit I can't believe it took me so long to realize who Daman Mills is when it came to the Super Dub/Taking over for Chris Ayres. It's freaking LordCrehavos. Shit I remember him really being known for his Cell Impression. He was bang on with sounding like Dameon Clarke as he does with Chris Ayres now a days. He was even briefly a member on this forum. Man time sure does fly. If Dameon Clarke is unavailable, just have him do Cell instead of Travis who wasn't really that good at it.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Any speculation on what their final ace in the hole might be? Do you think it's just the fact that they currently outnumber U11 or do you expect something related to Android 17's infinite energy?
I blast the writing of this show a lot, but I guess they did the best they could to wrap stuff up with only two episodes left. They gave Goku a theoretical victory (they even gave Beerus a line about Goku undeniably being stronger than Jiren at the height of Ultra Instinct) and then took it away because they probably had something planned for the "hidden" Freeza. I wonder what's up with Android 17, though. Maybe they didn't want to do resurrection scene for him with regular Shenron after the arc and they didn't want to leave him dead either because that would be too dark for the more light-hearted Super. Bulma better gives him that cruise ship of hers as a thank-you present.
Nakama boosts werent cliche in the 80s/90s, so it gets a pass, we are in 2018, when tons of popular animes want to get away from the cliches from 25 years ago. Jiren is now another trash antagonist like Acnologia, Kaguya, Ywach, congrats Nakamura.
Loputousu wrote:Yeah you're just complaining for the sake of complaining. Got it.
No, and you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. Got that too.
Dbzfan94 wrote:Exactly. Losing stamina = getting weaker is fine. Losing stamina = getting stronger is bad.
That's not what he's saying. Can you read more carefully please?
Yes, it was. To repeat myself once more: Losing power is not the issue and yes that the said character (Jiren) is a freaking titan compared to those (Freeza and #17) who try to stand up to him no matter how "injured" he was.
Hawk9211 wrote:Outside of nakama power,my biggest problem with the drama was:
Takami: But you have to be careful not to let Dragon Ball get too sentimental. You’ve got to protect the world that Toriyama-sensei created. Vegeta adds some good flavoring into the mix.
Sorry, but who the hell is Takami?
Either the producer or director of current arc.You can find the interview on this site.
HeroR wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote:[spoiler]
HeroR wrote:
Yes and no since Goku showed he did care, he was just easy going about everything. Like he was brought to tears when Roshi nearly died.
This is such a troll post that it hurts.
'Nakama' boosts have been done since the original Dragon Ball except we call them 'rage boosts'. Like Goku going Super Saiyan can be called 'Nakama' boost for several reasons along with 'That's My Bulma'.
Roshi has been on the bench since 107, which is now 23 episodes ago. So how are they wanking him, especially when far more characters got spotlight with this level of complaint. Seriously, Roshi has been gone for months yet people are still this salty about him doing well is baffling.
How is 17 getting spotlight after decades of not being in the series a bad thing by default? That and 17 literally disappeared from 104 to 109 and then disappeared again from 111 to 115.
"Jiren being the biggest pile of trash in the history of the industry", is so hyperbolic that I won't even bother.
[/spoiler]
Perucho is right up with precita in exaggeration.However,I think his assumption is based on nakamura being precure's director.
The reason I don't take rage boosts as nakama power is because they are more like andrenaline effect and a gateway to something else.Otherwise,they are just temporary power ups that accomplish nothing.I do agree with my bulma,trunks,sailor vegeta and current power up of goku as nakama power.
[spoiler]
Michsi wrote:
But wouldn't you say that the imminent erasure of his universe and the death of everyone he's ever met and cared about is one of those extreme moments? And I'd say the only reason he even started spouting anything about bonds is because he is facing an opponent that is specifically against these things and openly mocks them. I think Jiren's character and his views on friendship were deliberately designed for the purpose of inserting some emotion driven response from Goku. One of the most common criticism for DBS is that Goku seems way too detached, that he doesn't take anything serious. It feels like the writers wanted to have at least one moment were they make it clear that Goku does indeed care about his friends and family, even if it takes such extreme circumstances to make that apparent.
Goku isn't a bloodknight. Zaraki Kenpachi is a boodknight. Goku is childish and reckless and sometimes downright selfish, but I think people take these traits just a bit too far.
With Freeza, he loudly proclaims that he has no right to beg for his life because of all the innocent lives he has destroyed. By the end, he had lost all interest of a rematch with Freeza and chose to give him energy out of mercy. Why he showed sadness? Because he had to kill him in the end. Goku isn't a heartless battle beast. (Neither is Kenpachi in the end, but they are worlds appart when it comes to their personality)
[/spoiler]
Yeah,it's a gross exaggeration.However,as you can see in the bolded it's taking too far.First,they went too far in one direction now they are doing another 180 degree turn.
By that definition Goku going Super Saiyan and Gohan going Super Saiyan 2 are 'Nakama' boosts since they weren't temporary. Heck, Gohan's first 'Nakama' boost is the reason why Raditz was beating so it fits the 'accomplish' something.
I think I made it clear that I don’t consider rage boost nakama power.Nakama power is basically thinking/talking about your friends/loved ones and overcoming the odds just because they are in danger or you don’t want to let them down etc.Rage boost is more of a anderanaline effect.
Gohan was hidden potential.Not that I am fond of it,personally I consider it one of worst things to happen to dragon ball along with power aspect being blown out of proportion,especially their execution.Potential thing is not that bad tbh,but the way it is done I don’t like it.
Why power levels are important?
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
jeffbr92 wrote:I'm not arguing that Jiren should win no matter what, just that was a terrible choice to have Goku out of comission while 17 and Freeza take on Jiren, when they could have Jiren blasting Goku off stage and Freeza doing the same with Jiren by blasting him on his back.
Except this goes against your own logic that they can't do anything against Geran, the titan.
Except that Freeza would attack him from the behind, unexpected. We had things like this before, don't see the problem with having again.
Hawk9211 wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:Sorry, but who the hell is Takami?
Either the producer or director of current arc.You can find the interview on this site.
Looks like he's not much respected as writers tends to against his will.
perucho1990 wrote:Whats sad is that MUI Goku vs Jiren might be the best fight of Anime 2018 despite the garbage writing.
And without a decent conclusion.
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
With Goku being down while 17 and Frieza hold the fort against Jiren, I think there's a pretty good chance he'll make a last-second resurgence to bop Jiren and properly claim that victory. Maybe with one last UI? Frieza clearly isn't doing so hot since he's lost Golden by time Goku drops back in.
Interestingly enough, less then a year ago on the commencement of the Tournament Of Power, Toei had released a poster foreshadowed the side effects of the "Ultra Instinct". You saw what had happened in episode 130.
As it states something about Goku's back and a foreshadowing of a terrible thing to come.
Goku's tense back—this visual signified that something terrible was going to happen!! ,And that you shouldn't miss it for a second!!
So what do you guys think? Is the terrible event yet to occur or has it already commenced.[/spoiler]
Last edited by Khandom101 on Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Interestingly enough, less then a year ago on the commencement of the Tournament Of Power, Toei had released a poster foreshadowed the side effects of the "Ultra Instinct". You saw what had happened in episode 130.
As it states states something about Goku's back and a foreshadowing of a terrible thing to come.
Goku's tense back—this visual signified that something terrible was going to happen!! ,And that you shouldn't miss it for a second!!
So what do you guys think? Is the terrible event yet to occur or has it already commenced.[/spoiler]
Exploding backs and tingles were planned all along.
That "exploding back" shot was strange enough tho. Mmmm.
That has Evangelion vibes!
Maybe something related to "The Miracolous Ending" and "Farewell Goku" is happening. Goku growing a pair of wings & going to train with the Grand Priest maybe?
thegamer23 wrote:That "exploding back" shot was strange enough tho. Mmmm.
That has Evangelion vibes!
Maybe something related to "The Miracolous Ending" and "Farewell Goku" is happening. Goku growing a pair of wings & going to train with the Grand Priest maybe?
I would be quite disappointed if this were to happen. "Goku growing a pair of wings" I mean what is this, Naruto.
