"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[perucho1990]

Episode 101 implied that Gohan group will help Roshi eliminating people, so thats Piccolos, and Tenshinhans shining moment?

[precita]

If the ending is anything to do by, Tenshinhan will be the next character eliminated, so they have to do something with him before he falls. So that makes sense, and then we'll probably see Vegeta taking out now that the magical girl transformation is happening, which makes sense.

So 17 will probably get away or be interrupted by Vegeta and he falls.

[Lionel]

Piccolo's role is acting as a subsidiary for Roshi's miniature elimination crusade? I can't say it's the most optimal usage of his character. They would have been better off using the cyborg twins as sacrificial lambs, no inexplicable inflation of the brother's power to levels that make virtually no sense. Personally, I'm still waiting to discover what collaboration manoeuvres Gohan and Piccolo created in advance for this tournament. Surely they wouldn't remove him from the field before demonstrating what they're teamwork is like.

[MagmonKai]

Lol, so Vegeta who is on par with Goku is supposed to lose to Ribrianne an unknown fighter from universe 2? I would hope he would at least be taken out by someone we know is on Goku's level like Toppo. Guys, I don't really see why people think he's going to fall to her. Maybe it's going to be an intense battle, but I don't see him falling to her.

[Slaythe]

Piccolo's role is acting as a subsidiary for Roshi's miniature elimination crusade? I can't say it's the most optimal usage of his character. They would have been better off using the cyborg twins as sacrificial lambs, no inexplicable inflation of the brother's power to levels that make virtually no sense. Personally, I'm still waiting to discover what collaboration manoeuvres Gohan and Piccolo created in advance for this tournament. Surely they wouldn't remove him from the field before demonstrating what they're teamwork is like.

I got a feeling you're mad.

[omaro34]

Piccolo's role is acting as a subsidiary for Roshi's miniature elimination crusade? I can't say it's the most optimal usage of his character. They would have been better off using the cyborg twins as sacrificial lambs, no inexplicable inflation of the brother's power to levels that make virtually no sense. Personally, I'm still waiting to discover what collaboration manoeuvres Gohan and Piccolo created in advance for this tournament. Surely they wouldn't remove him from the field before demonstrating what they're teamwork is like.

I got a feeling you're mad.

At least he came up with a thoughtful, clearly written post. Your rebuttal is hardly worth noting.

[Lionel]

Piccolo's role is acting as a subsidiary for Roshi's miniature elimination crusade? I can't say it's the most optimal usage of his character. They would have been better off using the cyborg twins as sacrificial lambs, no inexplicable inflation of the brother's power to levels that make virtually no sense. Personally, I'm still waiting to discover what collaboration manoeuvres Gohan and Piccolo created in advance for this tournament. Surely they wouldn't remove him from the field before demonstrating what they're teamwork is like.

I got a feeling you're mad.

Dissatisfied? Yes. Anger? Not quite to the extent where I would say I'm angry. I don't understand why characters who were largely treated as one-note wonders in the cyborgs, by and large, are being afforded such accommodation. It's not as though they offer much in the way of marketability like with Piccolo or even Tenshinhan. Tao arguably has greater notoriety than they do.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

No I'm not. It just says better than average. That doesnt imply any sort of hard limit.

And Cabba, Caulifla, and Kale are all much stronger than an average Saiyan... so, what's the problem?

Well for one youd have to define what average is. Vegeta was a well above average Saiyan when he reached Earth but couldnt go SSJ.

Couple that with the fact some people take the guides as full canon while many dont since they often contain many inaccuracies.

It is already defined in the manga. Vegeta was always within the regular Saiyan levels up until his fight with Reacoom at 30.000, while Goku was the first one to surpass the regular Saiyan level at 60.000.

Chapter: 270 (DBZ 76), P12.5
Narrator: “Even Goku hasn’t realized…That somewhere along the line he’s acquired enough power to surpass the level of Saiyan limits…”

Chapter: 280 (DBZ 86), P14.1-3
Context: after Goku knocks out Recoom
Vegeta: “T-that just now wasn’t an attack…He can’t fool my eyes…It was a stupendously heavy blow…He’s clearly surpassed the fighting level of Saiyans…He’s a completely different person than the one I fought on Earth…What the hell kind of training did he do?...Was the legend true…!? Is he a Super Saiyan…!?”

Chapter: 283 (DBZ 89), P11.1-3
Ginyu: "In my estimation, his ability looks like it's about 60,000."
Jheese: "Six... 60,000!? H-he's a Saiyan!! Whoever heard of a Saiyan at 60,000...?!!"
Ginyu: “It’s not impossible. He could be like us, a super-gifted warrior, born with a mutation…Looks like this will be an unprecedentedly entertaining battle…I never thought the time would come for me to show my true power.”


As for the guidebooks, they have inaccuracies just like the original manga & the anime have plenty of them, it's only natural when the series is so big with so much content to cover. That specific statement doesn't contradict anything, it is even supported by the manga & the anime. You can ignore it if you want, but the statement is officially there.

[Slaythe]

Piccolo's role is acting as a subsidiary for Roshi's miniature elimination crusade? I can't say it's the most optimal usage of his character. They would have been better off using the cyborg twins as sacrificial lambs, no inexplicable inflation of the brother's power to levels that make virtually no sense. Personally, I'm still waiting to discover what collaboration manoeuvres Gohan and Piccolo created in advance for this tournament. Surely they wouldn't remove him from the field before demonstrating what they're teamwork is like.

I got a feeling you're mad.

At least he came up with a thoughtful, clearly written post. Your rebuttal is hardly worth noting.

Yet you did, thank you, cutie pie.

Moreover, it's a subject that's been beaten to death and I'm certainly not gonna repeat myself ad nauseam.

Piccolo's role is acting as a subsidiary for Roshi's miniature elimination crusade? I can't say it's the most optimal usage of his character. They would have been better off using the cyborg twins as sacrificial lambs, no inexplicable inflation of the brother's power to levels that make virtually no sense. Personally, I'm still waiting to discover what collaboration manoeuvres Gohan and Piccolo created in advance for this tournament. Surely they wouldn't remove him from the field before demonstrating what they're teamwork is like.

I got a feeling you're mad.

Dissatisfied? Yes. Anger? Not quite to the extent where I would say I'm angry. I don't understand why characters who were largely treated as one-note wonders in the cyborgs, by and large, are being afforded such accommodation. It's not as though they offer much in the way of marketability like with Piccolo or even Tenshinhan. Tao arguably has greater notoriety than they do.

Because that's the thing, you're wrong. They have a lot of notoriety and they have a lot of fans. They have a lot of people that see them as their favorite characters. Nobody has "tao" as their favorite character. People can like Tao, but he's not their favorite.

The whole point of having them (or 17) back was precisely the fact that their potential wasn't exploited due to rewriting the Cell saga on the fly, then moving on to other characters. This was stated by the Producer, backed by a Toriyama claim.

[perucho1990]

Piccolo's role is acting as a subsidiary for Roshi's miniature elimination crusade? I can't say it's the most optimal usage of his character. They would have been better off using the cyborg twins as sacrificial lambs, no inexplicable inflation of the brother's power to levels that make virtually no sense. Personally, I'm still waiting to discover what collaboration manoeuvres Gohan and Piccolo created in advance for this tournament. Surely they wouldn't remove him from the field before demonstrating what they're teamwork is like.

Lets be glad Piccolo will get to eliminate people, thats what matters, right?

At most his role will be like in FnF movie(being on par with a strong guy (like lets say from U3 or U2), then Gohan steps in and 1 shots him/her

[precita]

Lol, so Vegeta who is on par with Goku is supposed to lose to Ribrianne an unknown fighter from universe 2? I would hope he would at least be taken out by someone we know is on Goku's level like Toppo. Guys, I don't really see why people think he's going to fall to her. Maybe it's going to be an intense battle, but I don't see him falling to her.

She's not unknown. She's hyped enough they put her in the opening fighting Vegeta indicating it's his main climatic fight in the tournament. Otherwise you would have seen Vegeta fighting anyone else in the opening, like Hit or another Justice fighter or whatever.

[Lionel]

What amount does "a lot" constitute? From what I'm reading of the character popularity poll taken out of DB Forever during the early 2000s, courtesy of Herms providing it, #18 is listed as the #10 favourite. However, the amount of approval votes for her are only marginally greater than Mr Satan's. #17 ranks considerably lower with only five votes exceeding Yajirobe's. Both characters have a paltry amount of votes in relation to Piccolo and Krillin. Granted, #18 does surpass Roshi and Tenshinhan's amounts. I suspect this may have more to do with her participation in the Buu arc, even if it was limited to just the early segments at the tournament.

Stylistically, Tao would arguably have more to offer as a practitioner of the Crane School and with a more underutilised ability in the Dodonpa. The cyborg siblings returning is a strange anomaly in its own right. From the arguments you posted, Slaythe, the justification is related to their characters not being fully explored in-depth? If you want to be technical, they originally weren't intended to exist at all as #20 and #19 were slated as the original antagonists. If after all this time Toriyama is only just now beginning to shed some new light on their capabilities then they must not have been too high on his priorities list.

[Akyon]

Honestly if Brianne doesn't beat someone significant I'll be disappointed. Considering universe 2 is twinned with the almighty Universe 11, she should be quite a force to reckon with as the strongest in that universe.

I love 17 but if she can't even beat him as the fifth strongest warrior of U7, I'll be disappointed in Universe 2.

He's not really 5th strongest since the "source" which is Toshio also said he sees 17 and Gohan as being equal, not to mention it was heavily implied that 17 was holding back the whole time on episode 86 which means he hasn't gone all out yet and hasn't showcased his real strength and i doubt he will do it against Birianne, Birianne will fight Vegeta, the opening has been pretty accurate so far, i hope 17 fights her after she takes out Vegeta. (no offense Vegeta fans nothing against him it's just what i personally want.)

Honestly I couldn't care less who actually loses to Brianne, but since 17 has to lose to someone(because everything is pointing to Goku Vs. Jiren and Gohan kicking about til the end, and 17 not being the main character) I can't think of anyone better for him to lose against.

No seriously; the lone wolf fighter who distances himself even from his twin sister who he was once insperable with and doesn't even get the chance to see his family much due to his work is a pretty perfect opponent for a woman who seemingly runs on love and friendship and seems to have an emphasis on team work. Perhaps this defeat will even make 17 realise that no man is an island and bonds are important. It's cheesy as heck, but if that makes him hang out with the gang and become a permenant fixture of the Z senshi, I'm all for it.

I mean I also think she's perfect as a foil for Vegeta, who is similarly loner like and is fuelled by anger most(but not all) of the time instead of love.

[Dragonballgod19]

Honestly if Brianne doesn't beat someone significant I'll be disappointed. Considering universe 2 is twinned with the almighty Universe 11, she should be quite a force to reckon with as the strongest in that universe.

I love 17 but if she can't even beat him as the fifth strongest warrior of U7, I'll be disappointed in Universe 2.

He's not really 5th strongest since the "source" which is Toshio also said he sees 17 and Gohan as being equal, not to mention it was heavily implied that 17 was holding back the whole time on episode 86 which means he hasn't gone all out yet and hasn't showcased his real strength and i doubt he will do it against Birianne, Birianne will fight Vegeta, the opening has been pretty accurate so far, i hope 17 fights her after she takes out Vegeta. (no offense Vegeta fans nothing against him it's just what i personally want.)

Honestly I couldn't care less who actually loses to Brianne, but since 17 has to lose to someone(because everything is pointing to Goku Vs. Jiren and Gohan kicking about til the end, and 17 not being the main character) I can't think of anyone better for him to lose against.

No seriously; the lone wolf fighter who distances himself even from his twin sister who he was once insperable with and doesn't even get the chance to see his family much due to his work is a pretty perfect opponent for a woman who seemingly runs on love and friendship and seems to have an emphasis on team work. Perhaps this defeat will even make 17 realise that no man is an island and bonds are important. It's cheesy as heck, but if that makes him hang out with the gang and become a permenant fixture of the Z senshi, I'm all for it.

I mean I also think she's perfect as a foil for Vegeta, who is similarly loner like and is fuelled by anger most(but not all) of the time instead of love.

Lol at people thinking she will beat vegeta you guys are stupid I mean he was literally fighting her as ssj vegeta will lose to the main antagonist which is jiren

[GodKaio-Ken]

And Cabba, Caulifla, and Kale are all much stronger than an average Saiyan... so, what's the problem?

Well for one youd have to define what average is. Vegeta was a well above average Saiyan when he reached Earth but couldnt go SSJ.

Couple that with the fact some people take the guides as full canon while many dont since they often contain many inaccuracies.

It is already defined in the manga. Vegeta was always within the regular Saiyan levels up until his fight with Reacoom at 30.000, while Goku was the first one to surpass the regular Saiyan level at 60.000.

Chapter: 270 (DBZ 76), P12.5
Narrator: “Even Goku hasn’t realized…That somewhere along the line he’s acquired enough power to surpass the level of Saiyan limits…”

Chapter: 280 (DBZ 86), P14.1-3
Context: after Goku knocks out Recoom
Vegeta: “T-that just now wasn’t an attack…He can’t fool my eyes…It was a stupendously heavy blow…He’s clearly surpassed the fighting level of Saiyans…He’s a completely different person than the one I fought on Earth…What the hell kind of training did he do?...Was the legend true…!? Is he a Super Saiyan…!?”

Chapter: 283 (DBZ 89), P11.1-3
Ginyu: "In my estimation, his ability looks like it's about 60,000."
Jheese: "Six... 60,000!? H-he's a Saiyan!! Whoever heard of a Saiyan at 60,000...?!!"
Ginyu: “It’s not impossible. He could be like us, a super-gifted warrior, born with a mutation…Looks like this will be an unprecedentedly entertaining battle…I never thought the time would come for me to show my true power.”


As for the guidebooks, they have inaccuracies just like the original manga & the anime have plenty of them, it's only natural when the series is so big with so much content to cover. That specific statement doesn't contradict anything, it is even supported by the manga & the anime. You can ignore it if you want, but the statement is officially there.

Fair enough. Does it say that is the ONLY requirement because that isnt how its portrayed at all.

Also Vegeta was the strongest Saiyan alive. By definition he was already beyond the average Saiyan...which is a very vague range considering most were weaker than Nappa it would seem and an average is always moving.

Plus Goten and Trunks in base werent at the level of Namek Goku when they gained SSJ.

[pacz360]

He's not really 5th strongest since the "source" which is Toshio also said he sees 17 and Gohan as being equal, not to mention it was heavily implied that 17 was holding back the whole time on episode 86 which means he hasn't gone all out yet and hasn't showcased his real strength and i doubt he will do it against Birianne, Birianne will fight Vegeta, the opening has been pretty accurate so far, i hope 17 fights her after she takes out Vegeta. (no offense Vegeta fans nothing against him it's just what i personally want.)

Honestly I couldn't care less who actually loses to Brianne, but since 17 has to lose to someone(because everything is pointing to Goku Vs. Jiren and Gohan kicking about til the end, and 17 not being the main character) I can't think of anyone better for him to lose against.

No seriously; the lone wolf fighter who distances himself even from his twin sister who he was once insperable with and doesn't even get the chance to see his family much due to his work is a pretty perfect opponent for a woman who seemingly runs on love and friendship and seems to have an emphasis on team work. Perhaps this defeat will even make 17 realise that no man is an island and bonds are important. It's cheesy as heck, but if that makes him hang out with the gang and become a permenant fixture of the Z senshi, I'm all for it.

I mean I also think she's perfect as a foil for Vegeta, who is similarly loner like and is fuelled by anger most(but not all) of the time instead of love.

Lol at people thinking she will beat vegeta you guys are stupid I mean he was literally fighting her as ssj vegeta will lose to the main antagonist which is jiren

Just because vegeta is fighting her ssj doesn't mean she won't push him to go blue
We don't know how strong she is

[Dragonballgod19]

Honestly I couldn't care less who actually loses to Brianne, but since 17 has to lose to someone(because everything is pointing to Goku Vs. Jiren and Gohan kicking about til the end, and 17 not being the main character) I can't think of anyone better for him to lose against.

No seriously; the lone wolf fighter who distances himself even from his twin sister who he was once insperable with and doesn't even get the chance to see his family much due to his work is a pretty perfect opponent for a woman who seemingly runs on love and friendship and seems to have an emphasis on team work. Perhaps this defeat will even make 17 realise that no man is an island and bonds are important. It's cheesy as heck, but if that makes him hang out with the gang and become a permenant fixture of the Z senshi, I'm all for it.

I mean I also think she's perfect as a foil for Vegeta, who is similarly loner like and is fuelled by anger most(but not all) of the time instead of love.

Lol at people thinking she will beat vegeta you guys are stupid I mean he was literally fighting her as ssj vegeta will lose to the main antagonist which is jiren

Just because vegeta is fighting her ssj doesn't mean she won't push him to go blue
We don't know how strong she is

True we don't know how strong she is and I'm just laughing at the fact that people think she will beat vegeta

[pacz360]

Lol at people thinking she will beat vegeta you guys are stupid I mean he was literally fighting her as ssj vegeta will lose to the main antagonist which is jiren

Just because vegeta is fighting her ssj doesn't mean she won't push him to go blue
We don't know how strong she is

True we don't know how strong she is and I'm just laughing at the fact that people think she will beat vegeta

Anything could happen this is super were talking about but I don't see veggie biting the dust yet unlike certain members here

[Okora]

And Cabba, Caulifla, and Kale are all much stronger than an average Saiyan... so, what's the problem?

Well for one youd have to define what average is. Vegeta was a well above average Saiyan when he reached Earth but couldnt go SSJ.

Couple that with the fact some people take the guides as full canon while many dont since they often contain many inaccuracies.

It is already defined in the manga. Vegeta was always within the regular Saiyan levels up until his fight with Reacoom at 30.000, while Goku was the first one to surpass the regular Saiyan level at 60.000.

Chapter: 270 (DBZ 76), P12.5
Narrator: “Even Goku hasn’t realized…That somewhere along the line he’s acquired enough power to surpass the level of Saiyan limits…”

Chapter: 280 (DBZ 86), P14.1-3
Context: after Goku knocks out Recoom
Vegeta: “T-that just now wasn’t an attack…He can’t fool my eyes…It was a stupendously heavy blow…He’s clearly surpassed the fighting level of Saiyans…He’s a completely different person than the one I fought on Earth…What the hell kind of training did he do?...Was the legend true…!? Is he a Super Saiyan…!?”

Chapter: 283 (DBZ 89), P11.1-3
Ginyu: "In my estimation, his ability looks like it's about 60,000."
Jheese: "Six... 60,000!? H-he's a Saiyan!! Whoever heard of a Saiyan at 60,000...?!!"
Ginyu: “It’s not impossible. He could be like us, a super-gifted warrior, born with a mutation…Looks like this will be an unprecedentedly entertaining battle…I never thought the time would come for me to show my true power.”


As for the guidebooks, they have inaccuracies just like the original manga & the anime have plenty of them, it's only natural when the series is so big with so much content to cover. That specific statement doesn't contradict anything, it is even supported by the manga & the anime. You can ignore it if you want, but the statement is officially there.

I'm pretty sure they were talking about the average not that there had never been a saiyan before with a power level over 60,000. The average power levle of the saiyans should change from generation to generation getting either higher or lower. I always took it as the saiyans on Vegeta were much weaker on average than the saiyans that lived over a thousand years ago on Sadala. I thought Whis also implied that super saiyan wasn't all that uncommon in the past. basically the saiyans in universe7 got weaker over time and the saiyans in universe 6 didn't

[TheOne]

Lol, so Vegeta who is on par with Goku is supposed to lose to Ribrianne an unknown fighter from universe 2? I would hope he would at least be taken out by someone we know is on Goku's level like Toppo. Guys, I don't really see why people think he's going to fall to her. Maybe it's going to be an intense battle, but I don't see him falling to her.

She's not unknown. She's hyped enough they put her in the opening fighting Vegeta indicating it's his main climatic fight in the tournament. Otherwise you would have seen Vegeta fighting anyone else in the opening, like Hit or another Justice fighter or whatever.

You're one of the people I was referring to in my previous post. Shes being hyped because of people like YOU making these claims. Yes Vegeta was fighting her in the preview. Yes she was shown in the jump preview. But do you know who else appeared? Freaking Kale. Kale was one of the fighters next to her and Jiren. Kale isn't going to take out a single fighter from U7. Why would you assume that she's going to be the one to take out Vegeta? The guy was fighting her as a freaking Super Saiyan.

At this point in the series, Vegeta sneezing is grounds for him to turn Super Saiyan. So until I actually see her ring him out, I'm not going to assume he will get his butt kicked just from a 2 second clip.