"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Ki Breaker]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Don't fuck with us el grande padre, there is no next time, super's dead and so is your legitimacy

We will probably get a 3rd tournament between 7 and those 4 universes when it's back. If he says there'll be a next time then there'll be a next time.

Jiren was giving us subtle hints all along wasn't he..



If this wasn't a coincidence, then I would like to believe Grand priest's line meant something deeper than it actually did..

Well, no matter, we still have this to look forward to
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Nickolaidas]

Holy shit ... next episode might be the end of Frieza. That Toppo look was s-c-a-r-y. Even if Frieza's not getting KO'ed next ep, I sincerely expect a serious beatdown to be handed to him by Godpo.

[Analytical Delusion]

If Super is ending instead of going on break, I really hope they don’t drop the Goku/Vegeta/Beerus/Whis interactions in the next series or whatever movies come next. They were the core of Super, and I’ve really enjoyed the chemistry in the group.

Also hoping that the Freeza subplot isn't bungled. There are so many awesome directions they could take it in, don’t do something stupid like send him back to hell like nothing happened.

[Totamo]

You cannot say that when literally every saiyan, and i do mean every saiyan, got a new form in this tournament but him.

I told you Toei hypes things up more than they should when they know its not going to have a high pay off and you argued with me when now look, this episode will be put up there with 119 and 106 when the writing isn't on par with those 2 simply because of the expectations Gohan was given.

I can since Gohan had one of the biggest boosts in the franchise in this one arc. He went from being strangled by Piccolo as a Super Saiyan 2 to 'rivaling' Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku in a single night. He didn't need a 'new form' to get a giant power boost. Even the forms the other Saiyans got pales in comparison to Gohan outside of UI Goku.

Gohan receiving such a large boost was NOT the pay off for his large hype but a REASON for his large hype and look where it led?

Plenty of fans are pissed and they wouldn't be if the hype was so high, which i told you would happen.

[Totamo]

I think when we talk about what "deserves" a new transformation, we should consider more than just raw training time. Because training is one of those things that's used more for convenience than anything else in Dragon Ball, it's just an assumed state of the characters unless otherwise noted. Piccolo and Tenshinhan are established as training regularly, but we don't expect big powerups from them these days because they haven't been given a reason to develop as characters.

Transformations/powerups in Dragon Ball are ideally one of two things:

A) Culmination of a character arc.
B) A game-changer in the story.

At their best they can be both, that's why Gohan into SSJ2 against Cell was such an amazing moment. The problem with Vegeta's new form is that it fulfilled neither. It made a token effort to be "about" something, but Vegeta's had no growth throughout the Tournament and his relationship with Cabba was so under-developed that it fell flat. And it certainly isn't a game-changer. Ultra Instinct, aside from being well-executed in general, changed the entire dynamic of the tournament. It was immediately apparent just from watching that *this* was the only thing that can possibly beat Jiren. Super Saiyan Whoop-de-Blue doesn't for a second look like it can do that. Maybe it'll beat Toppo's new powerup, but that hasn't happened yet and isn't what triggered the transformation, so it'll basically just be coming up with a solution before the problem.

This is highly incorrect.

Krillin got a powerup on namek and it meant neither. Super saiyan grade 3 did neither. Super saiyan 3 did neither. Goten and Trunks going super saiyan did neither. Ultimate Gohan did neither. Hell, if we want to we can even throw super saiyan 4 vegeta in there.


The transformation is about getting characters as powerful as they need to be at the time in universe and to sell toys because when you really think about Gohan went super saiyan 2 because a robot he just met that died in front of him especially when you go with the dub.

[Lionel]

Gohan earning the bronze medal for participation in this arc was an initial expectation for me personally. Toei's decision to pit him against Toppo did admittedly throw a curve into the possible execution of his decisive moment in this tournament. Both characters shared interesting parallels as ideologues for justice and leaders of their respective teams. You had a good basis for a mirror dualistic showdown there between two characters in similar positions. Maybe they could have even taken it one step further by having Toppo recount his grievances against Gohan's father in the perceived injustice he caused by encouraging the birth of this tournament. Through his own flesh and blood father Gohan might have been able to share the most chronicled link to the Pride Troopers. It's not to say that Freeza or Vegeta wouldn't provide an interesting dynamic of their own because they do. I'm just saying that Gohan possessed enough qualities to make some possible interactions with Toppo more meaningful.

Frankly, I don't know how #17 ties into what's going on right now. I'm with the others who feel like he's coming across as a holdover that's awkwardly sticking out like a sore thumb in a room full of monstrous entities waging war against each other.

[Onibaku]

Theres word on Vegetto making an appearance in this arc too?

It would make sense. I mean, even at their full power (overlooking Goku's UI for the moment) Vegeta and Goku are not proving to be THAT much of a problem to Jiren. And Jiren is apparently not even out of first gear yet.

Who has the Potaras though? Kaioshin?

[Lapislettuce]

Gohan earning the bronze medal for participation in this arc was an initial expectation for me personally. Toei's decision to pit him against Toppo did admittedly throw a curve into the possible execution of his decisive moment in this tournament. Both characters shared interesting parallels as ideologues for justice and leaders of their respective teams. You had a good basis for a mirror dualistic showdown there between two characters in similar positions. Maybe they could have even taken it one step further by having Toppo recount his grievances against Gohan's father in the perceived injustice he caused by encouraging the birth of this tournament. Through his own flesh and blood father Gohan might have been able to share the most chronicled link to the Pride Troopers. It's not to say that Freeza or Vegeta wouldn't provide an interesting dynamic of their own because they do. I'm just saying that Gohan possessed enough qualities to make some possible interactions with Toppo more meaningful.

Frankly, I don't know how #17 ties into what's going on right now. I'm with the others who feel like he's coming across as a holdover that's awkwardly sticking out like a sore thumb in a room full of monstrous entities waging war against each other.

Just because you can't accept he's as strong as the show portrayed him to be doesn't mean he doesn't belong there lol

[Lapislettuce]

I have yet to see the episode, but I did want to find out first if my worst fears have come to pass, and I kinda expected it once they announced DBS ending in March. No way would anyone other than Goku have the final fight if this is Super's last arc.

And damn does 17's presence now rub me the wrong way, and I'm not even a Gohan fan.

Uuuh why ? was 17 the reason Gohan got eliminated ? sit down 17 isn't shoved on our throats as much as you people claim lol i'm enjoying all of you being mad though.

[Lapislettuce]

More proof that Gohan fanboys are salty, greedy and never happy xD honestly i LOVE karma so much ! <3

[Lionel]

Gohan earning the bronze medal for participation in this arc was an initial expectation for me personally. Toei's decision to pit him against Toppo did admittedly throw a curve into the possible execution of his decisive moment in this tournament. Both characters shared interesting parallels as ideologues for justice and leaders of their respective teams. You had a good basis for a mirror dualistic showdown there between two characters in similar positions. Maybe they could have even taken it one step further by having Toppo recount his grievances against Gohan's father in the perceived injustice he caused by encouraging the birth of this tournament. Through his own flesh and blood father Gohan might have been able to share the most chronicled link to the Pride Troopers. It's not to say that Freeza or Vegeta wouldn't provide an interesting dynamic of their own because they do. I'm just saying that Gohan possessed enough qualities to make some possible interactions with Toppo more meaningful.

Frankly, I don't know how #17 ties into what's going on right now. I'm with the others who feel like he's coming across as a holdover that's awkwardly sticking out like a sore thumb in a room full of monstrous entities waging war against each other.

Just because you can't accept he's as strong as the show portrayed him to be doesn't mean he doesn't belong there lol

It's not so much the power inflation as it is narrational adhesion and how he's intended to mesh with the overlying dissension of personalities. The show has made an effort to predicate his detached outlook on the course of events. He's essentially a cameo stopgap with little incentive or rhyme to his involvement with this fight outside of providing an extra pair of hands.

[Cetra]

I almost wanted to say that I cannot believe that people after all this are still not satisfied with what Gohan got but then I remembered that Gohan is so hopelessly hyped by his fans that its not even believable.

Gohan got treated very well in this arc. People should be glad for that. And people like 17 are an interesting choice of characters having more screentime who are not the main characters simpy because of exactly that. We get some other guys doing something cool, guys that also seemed to be at least decently liked by many before.

[Michsi]

I have yet to see the episode, but I did want to find out first if my worst fears have come to pass, and I kinda expected it once they announced DBS ending in March. No way would anyone other than Goku have the final fight if this is Super's last arc.

And damn does 17's presence now rub me the wrong way, and I'm not even a Gohan fan.

Uuuh why ? was 17 the reason Gohan got eliminated ? sit down 17 isn't shoved on our throats as much as you people claim lol i'm enjoying all of you being mad though.

I'm allowed to have my opinion, petty as it may be, and voice it. If you're enjoying the salt, more power to you. I don't think 17 is to blame for the elimination order, but if screen time is a zero-sum game then you can expect some competitiveness.

My advice though would be not to treat every negative comment about him like a personal attack. It won't change anyone's opinion and will only end up irritating both parties and the mods.

[Lapislettuce]

I have yet to see the episode, but I did want to find out first if my worst fears have come to pass, and I kinda expected it once they announced DBS ending in March. No way would anyone other than Goku have the final fight if this is Super's last arc.

And damn does 17's presence now rub me the wrong way, and I'm not even a Gohan fan.

Uuuh why ? was 17 the reason Gohan got eliminated ? sit down 17 isn't shoved on our throats as much as you people claim lol i'm enjoying all of you being mad though.

I'm allowed to have my opinion, petty as it may be, and voice it. If you're enjoying the salt, more power to you. I don't think 17 is to blame for the elimination order, but if screen time is a zero-sum game then you can expect some competitiveness.

My advice though would be not to treat every negative comment about him like a personal attack. It won't change anyone's opinion and will only end up irritating both parties and the mods.

An opinion is allowed when it's rational. what you're saying is irrational. out of everyone who is lasting in the tournament you chose my favorite character and said that his presence was bothering you ? why exactly ? because he's made the most contribution ? because he's a team player, intelligent and enjoyable to watch ?

[kinisking]

The only problem I have with Gohan getting eliminated this episode was that he was barely in his own elimination episode. If he had a focus the entire episode I would have been completely fine with it, but it felt so rushed and unimportant.

[Michsi]

Uuuh why ? was 17 the reason Gohan got eliminated ? sit down 17 isn't shoved on our throats as much as you people claim lol i'm enjoying all of you being mad though.

I'm allowed to have my opinion, petty as it may be, and voice it. If you're enjoying the salt, more power to you. I don't think 17 is to blame for the elimination order, but if screen time is a zero-sum game then you can expect some competitiveness.

My advice though would be not to treat every negative comment about him like a personal attack. It won't change anyone's opinion and will only end up irritating both parties and the mods.

An opinion is allowed when it's rational. what you're saying is irrational. out of everyone who is lasting in the tournament you chose my favorite character and said that his presence was bothering you ? why exactly ? because he's made the most contribution ? because he's a team player, intelligent and enjoyable to watch ?

No, opinions aren't just allowed when they're rational, everyone has a right to voice them for whatever reason they want. Subjectivity doesn't work that way, and you can throw at me how 17 is the smartest, strongest, most beautiful gem of a character out there, here I am, still very much not taken with him. Your feelings are your own. I for one am not invested in him at all. I enjoyed some of his screen-time, but would've much rather seen someone else. I didn't choose your favorite character, because he is your favorite character, he just happens to be the one I'm the least interested in and he also happens to be the one who virtually popped up out of nowhere. I would've felt the same way had they chosen to add Jeice instead of #17.

Also, I was half-serious earlier about his presence rubbing me the wrong way. No need to take it personal.

[Lapislettuce]

I'm allowed to have my opinion, petty as it may be, and voice it. If you're enjoying the salt, more power to you. I don't think 17 is to blame for the elimination order, but if screen time is a zero-sum game then you can expect some competitiveness.

My advice though would be not to treat every negative comment about him like a personal attack. It won't change anyone's opinion and will only end up irritating both parties and the mods.

An opinion is allowed when it's rational. what you're saying is irrational. out of everyone who is lasting in the tournament you chose my favorite character and said that his presence was bothering you ? why exactly ? because he's made the most contribution ? because he's a team player, intelligent and enjoyable to watch ?

No, opinions aren't just allowed when they're rational, everyone has a right to voice them for whatever reason they want. Subjectivity doesn't work that way, and you can throw at me how 17 is the smartest, strongest, most beautiful gem of a character out there, here I am, still very much not taken with him. Your feelings are your own. I for one am not invested in him at all. I enjoyed some of his screen-time, but would've much rather seen someone else. I didn't choose your favorite character, because he is your favorite character, he just happens to be the one I'm the least interested in and he also happens to be the one who virtually popped up out of nowhere. I would've felt the same way had they chosen to add Jeice instead of #17.

Also, I was half-serious earlier about his presence rubbing me the wrong way. No need to take it personal.

"Came out of no where" lol there's nothing wrong with bringing back an old character with a cool design that was misused before. it's never too late to realise you got gold in your hands. comparing 17 with Jiece is dumb as hell. Jiece was unpopular, one dimensional and is dead. 17 had a fan base since Z, he was a good guy, strong, and alive ! it was only a matter of time for him to make a comeback.

[Lapislettuce]

I almost wanted to say that I cannot believe that people after all this are still not satisfied with what Gohan got but then I remembered that Gohan is so hopelessly hyped by his fans that its not even believable.

Gohan got treated very well in this arc. People should be glad for that. And people like 17 are an interesting choice of characters having more screentime who are not the main characters simpy because of exactly that. We get some other guys doing something cool, guys that also seemed to be at least decently liked by many before.

100% agreed ! some people want things to go their own way or they'll complain. 17 and Frieza having more screen time is the best decision the show made in a long time. looking forward to see their team up. cheers for 17 and Frieza for breaking the "only saiyan show" rule.

[Michsi]

"Came out of no where" lol there's nothing wrong with bringing back an old character with a cool design that was misused before. it's never too late to realise you got gold in your hands. comparing 17 with Jiece is dumb as hell. Jiece was unpopular, one dimensional and is dead. 17 had a fan base since Z, he was a good guy, strong, and alive ! it was only a matter of time for him to make a comeback.

Sorry, but I disagree with pretty much everything there. But that's me.

By all means, continue enjoying #17's role. You have every right to.

[GodVegetto91]

Foreshadowing of a potential future TOP? And therefore confirmation that nothing really bad is going to happen to Universe 7?