"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[batistabus]

I'm glad that this is so different from the anime because I really love both scenarios. The preliminary matches were possibly the best part of the arc so far in the anime, and it actually gives me a reason to rewatch the show. If we're going to have two separate products, this is how it should be. I don't wish the preliminaries were in the manga per say, it's just nice to see the anime do something different that isn't just an inferior version of what's in the manga. Can't wait to see how this battle plays out.

Not sure why people are complaining about Beerus dodging and being clever. It's about time that the "move without thinking" concept introduced two years ago is finally being expanded upon. Some of you are making it seem like this is a copy of the scene in Battle of Gods where Beerus is beating everybody with chopsticks...which is not what's happening.

[JRosS91]

There's something that has me quite confused.

If Whis is a master of that ability and it allows you to overcome any circumstance, why can't even dream of being up to Daishinkan? It can be deduced from this fact that Daishinkan is the true master of this and, therefore, all angels should have the same knowledge.

If the Hakaishin are lazy as a rule explains everything else.

[TheMikado]

And in this very chapter Quitela has already given evidence that he IS stronger since he beat Beerus at arm wrestling "a test of strength". Sidra blocked is attack with little effert and Mosco forced him to use all his limbs to eescape. So were were is all this stuff the diffnitivly proves Beerus is the strongest please?

Reacting without thinking isn't some angel level technique. It's something taught in normal marital arts. I take marital arts and one of things we are taught is to reach a point of 'no thought'. Being able to move and react without thinking about it.

So treating this as something exclusive to Whis is, to be blunt, silly.

Not the same at all. Whis is talking about every part of your body moving independently of your brain. Faster than signals on your neural system can travel. Needless to say, that's not biologically possible in the real world.

Excluding the fact that we are talking about a fictional world of fiction beings practicing a fictional martial art... It's basically a simple pretense. It's along the same technique of what Gohan uses when he goes blind. His body senses something incoming and rather than thinking about what to do his body instinctively uses muscle memory. Its actually a legitimate biological phenomena

Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems. Examples of muscle memory are found in many everyday activities that become automatic and improve with practice, such as riding a bicycle, typing on a keyboard, typing in a PIN, playing a musical instrument,[1] martial arts or even dancing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory

There's something that has me quite confused.

If Whis is a master of that ability and it allows you to overcome any circumstance, why can't even dream of being up to Daishinkan? It can be deduced from this fact that Daishinkan is the true master of this and, therefore, all angels should have the same knowledge.

If the Hakaishin are lazy as a rule explains everything else.

It's something that has to be taught and trained in martial arts. There's nothing to say the other angels do or do not know of the technique, but I would imagine they would.
As I stated before Beerus seems to be the only one particularly interested in fighting and thus would have cultivated the skill. Even his own brother doesn't seem to be particularly interested in getting in a good fight. It seems like the GoDs tend to rule on raw power alone rather than some high level martial arts skills with only Beerus in showing an interest in actually fighting and martial arts.

[JRosS91]

It's something that has to be taught and trained in martial arts. There's nothing to say the other angels do or do not know of the technique, but I would imagine they would.
As I stated before Beerus seems to be the only one particularly interested in fighting and thus would have cultivated the skill. Even his own brother doesn't seem to be particularly interested in getting in a good fight. It seems like the GoDs tend to rule on raw power alone rather than some high level martial arts skills with only Beerus in showing an interest in actually fighting and martial arts.

It would make the most sense, but I'm feeling bad because I expected more from some like Liquir or Geen. It gratifies me to think that we've only seen the beginning xD

[GodVegetto91]

There's something that has me quite confused.

If Whis is a master of that ability and it allows you to overcome any circumstance, why can't even dream of being up to Daishinkan? It can be deduced from this fact that Daishinkan is the true master of this and, therefore, all angels should have the same knowledge.

If the Hakaishin are lazy as a rule explains everything else.

It's very simple. Even though both of them have the ability, Grand Priest's ki is much stronger (i.e. he has a much higher battle power).

[Rhuagh]

Reacting without thinking isn't some angel level technique. It's something taught in normal marital arts. I take marital arts and one of things we are taught is to reach a point of 'no thought'. Being able to move and react without thinking about it.

So treating this as something exclusive to Whis is, to be blunt, silly.

Not the same at all. Whis is talking about every part of your body moving independently of your brain. Faster than signals on your neural system can travel. Needless to say, that's not biologically possible in the real world.

Excluding the fact that we are talking about a fictional world of fiction beings practicing a fictional martial art... It's basically a simple pretense. It's along the same technique of what Gohan uses when he goes blind. His body senses something incoming and rather than thinking about what to do his body instinctively uses muscle memory. Its actually a legitimate biological phenomena

N O T T H E S A M E

Muscle memory is still dependant on your neural system, even if you are not councious of it. You can not move your body without input from your brain. This tenchnique allows Beerus to do just that, react faster than signals travel through his neural system.

You guys should just watch again the scene where Whis explains it. It's also in the second chapter of Toyotaro's Fukatsu no F adaptation.

[TheMikado]

Not the same at all. Whis is talking about every part of your body moving independently of your brain. Faster than signals on your neural system can travel. Needless to say, that's not biologically possible in the real world.

Excluding the fact that we are talking about a fictional world of fiction beings practicing a fictional martial art... It's basically a simple pretense. It's along the same technique of what Gohan uses when he goes blind. His body senses something incoming and rather than thinking about what to do his body instinctively uses muscle memory. Its actually a legitimate biological phenomena

N O T T H E S A M E

Muscle memory is still dependant on your neural system, even if you are not councious of it. You can not move your body without input from your brain. This tenchnique allows Beerus to do just that, react faster than signals travel through his neural system.

You guys should just watch again the scene where Whis explains it. It's also in the second chapter of Toyotaro's Fukatsu no F adaptation.

Ok I'm going to quote myself again:

Excluding the fact that we are talking about a fictional world of fiction beings practicing a fictional martial art...

You're watching a show where characters show fireballs from their finger tips, mouths, eyes, survive the vacuum of space, get reanimated from death multiple times, semi-humanoid creatures such as talking dogs exist, and can instantaneously regenerate limbs, and you want to drawn the line on an immortal God, who is only answers to the good of everything that behaves like a toddler, that this immortal GoD's hypothetical nervous system shouldn't be able to react faster than the neural systems of real-life biological humans.............................................................................

If your true concern was the series being biologically accurate I would have assumed you would have dropped the show along time ago after a human being was able to throw a log with enough momentum to jump on said log and run it a long distance, or the first time a humaniod character was able to successfully ride a cloud.... Basically I'm having a hard time understanding what the problem is with Beerus learning a simple skill that has some actual basis and merit in real life physiology?

Also, more importantly, you're wrong.

You can not move your body without input from your brain.

A reflex arc is a neural pathway that controls a reflex. In vertebrates, most sensory neurons do not pass directly into the brain, but synapse in the spinal cord. This allows for faster reflex actions to occur by activating spinal motor neurons without the delay of routing signals through the brain. However, the brain will receive the sensory input while the reflex is being carried out and the analysis of the signal takes place after the reflex action.

[Zamasu55]

The anime and the manga are different. Quitela surely isn't the one who beat Beerus in the anime.

Says who? Especially since in the anime he's Beerus' rival, it points to him being the one who did it

This fanbase is ridiculous

Damon > Jiren.

[Noah]

Do some people seriously believe one of those two U4 bugs is actually stronger than Jiren???!

Why the surprise? Isn't that the same series that has Magical Girls that are probably stronger than Cell and Boo?

[Rhuagh]

Excluding the fact that we are talking about a fictional world of fiction beings practicing a fictional martial art... It's basically a simple pretense. It's along the same technique of what Gohan uses when he goes blind. His body senses something incoming and rather than thinking about what to do his body instinctively uses muscle memory. Its actually a legitimate biological phenomena

N O T T H E S A M E

Muscle memory is still dependant on your neural system, even if you are not councious of it. You can not move your body without input from your brain. This tenchnique allows Beerus to do just that, react faster than signals travel through his neural system.

You guys should just watch again the scene where Whis explains it. It's also in the second chapter of Toyotaro's Fukatsu no F adaptation.

Ok I'm going to quote myself again:

Excluding the fact that we are talking about a fictional world of fiction beings practicing a fictional martial art...

You're watching a show where characters show fireballs from their finger tips, mouths, eyes, survive the vacuum of space, get reanimated from death multiple times, semi-humanoid creatures such as talking dogs exist, and can instantaneously regenerate limbs, and you want to drawn the line on an immortal God, who is only answers to the good of everything that behaves like a toddler, that this immortal GoD's hypothetical nervous system shouldn't be able to react faster than the neural systems of real-life biological humans.............................................................................

If your true concern was the series being biologically accurate I would have assumed you would have dropped the show along time ago after a human being was able to throw a log with enough momentum to jump on said log and run it a long distance, or the first time a humaniod character was able to successfully ride a cloud.... Basically I'm having a hard time understanding what the problem is with Beerus learning a simple skill that has some actual basis and merit in real life physiology?

What? Where in any of my posts you got the slightest idea that I have a problem with this being a thing in Dragon Ball?

I'm just trying to explain what the technique is and isn't. It's not taught in normal martial arts, it's not muscle memory, it's supernatural mambo jambo that only Whis has ever talked about, hence this argument that every high level fighter should be able to do it like Beerus is flawed.

This has nothing to do with what I think should be possible in a shounen manga, and I don't know why you would even bring up this nonsense.

[TheMikado]

N O T T H E S A M E

Muscle memory is still dependant on your neural system, even if you are not councious of it. You can not move your body without input from your brain. This tenchnique allows Beerus to do just that, react faster than signals travel through his neural system.

You guys should just watch again the scene where Whis explains it. It's also in the second chapter of Toyotaro's Fukatsu no F adaptation.

Ok I'm going to quote myself again:

Excluding the fact that we are talking about a fictional world of fiction beings practicing a fictional martial art...

You're watching a show where characters show fireballs from their finger tips, mouths, eyes, survive the vacuum of space, get reanimated from death multiple times, semi-humanoid creatures such as talking dogs exist, and can instantaneously regenerate limbs, and you want to drawn the line on an immortal God, who is only answers to the good of everything that behaves like a toddler, that this immortal GoD's hypothetical nervous system shouldn't be able to react faster than the neural systems of real-life biological humans.............................................................................

If your true concern was the series being biologically accurate I would have assumed you would have dropped the show along time ago after a human being was able to throw a log with enough momentum to jump on said log and run it a long distance, or the first time a humaniod character was able to successfully ride a cloud.... Basically I'm having a hard time understanding what the problem is with Beerus learning a simple skill that has some actual basis and merit in real life physiology?

What? Where in any of my posts you got the slightest idea that I have a problem with this being a thing in Dragon Ball?

I'm just trying to explain what the technique is and isn't. It's not taught in normal martial arts, it's not muscle memory, it's supernatural mambo jambo that only Whis has ever talked about, hence this argument that every high level fighter should be able to do it like Beerus is flawed.

This has nothing to do with what I think should be possible in a shounen manga, and I don't know why you would even bring up this nonsense.

I think your insistence that this is not something taught as a basic principal is flawed. The idea, the concept, everything about this is the same thing which is taught in almost an physical skilled discipline. The idea that you literally move/react without thinking is the basis of countless stories, fables, movies, tall-tales, books, etc. I don't understand why your issue is with the concept. The author is clearly referencing a widespread technique where people often state "Don't think about it" "Let it become second nature" "Reflex-like", It seems you're taking a general imaginary concept in a fictitious monthly promotional manga and applied real world science for some reason. I'm simply not following what the problem is. The concept of move without thinking is taught all over the world for various disciplines.

No, I would say it's pretty obvious that this isn't written as an anatomy piece in a scientific journal and the author is alluding that muscle memory works in the same way as a reflex arc. While that's technically incorrect from a physiological approach, I don't understand while its so important to draw that distinction when its a commonly used thought process for various disciplines including martial arts. There is nothing outrageous or non-standard about this concept.

[BlueBasilisk]

Interesting to see the moving without thinking thing appear in this chapter. I thought the anime might be alluding to Jiren having that ability with the flying block bit. Now I'm very curious to see if he does.

[HeroR]

And in this very chapter Quitela has already given evidence that he IS stronger since he beat Beerus at arm wrestling "a test of strength". Sidra blocked is attack with little effert and Mosco forced him to use all his limbs to eescape. So were were is all this stuff the diffnitivly proves Beerus is the strongest please?

Reacting without thinking isn't some angel level technique. It's something taught in normal marital arts. I take marital arts and one of things we are taught is to reach a point of 'no thought'. Being able to move and react without thinking about it.

So treating this as something exclusive to Whis is, to be blunt, silly.

Not the same at all. Whis is talking about every part of your body moving independently of your brain. Faster than signals on your neural system can travel. Needless to say, that's not biologically possible in the real world.

It is the same. Moving without thinking applies to your entire body. Moving faster faster than signals on your neural system can travel is just an exaggeration of the same principle, just like everything else in Dragon Ball.

[Sora Saiyan]

Yeah, the body moving on it's own is obviously just an exaggerated form of what we humans are capable of. With the DB characters everything becomes automatic, they are capable of moving without thinking for any movement. For us humans it's about drilling a technique enough that our body can then move without the need for a signal being sent to the brain, of course it's very, very limited for us in comparison but that's the whole point of fiction.

[Zephyr]

Viz has posted their translation.

Really fun chapter!

[supersaiyan1993]

Great chapter. Different to how the anime was. I guess this chapter confirms that the mortal stronger than the god of destruction(quitella) is in universe 4.

I'm hoping the manga gets animated. Perhaps in ova or something. Imo it is much better than the anime

[BlueBasilisk]

Yeah, the body moving on it's own is obviously just an exaggerated form of what we humans are capable of. With the DB characters everything becomes automatic, they are capable of moving without thinking for any movement. For us humans it's about drilling a technique enough that our body can then move without the need for a signal being sent to the brain, of course it's very, very limited for us in comparison but that's the whole point of fiction.

Goku's already done something like this in at least one version of Battle of Gods. He was rushing to attack Beerus, but his body sensed that Beerus would counter and dodged away before he even realized what he was doing.

[MajinMan]

Fantastic chapter. One thing I really like about Toyotaro's take on the Zen Exhibition Match is the focus on the gods of the other Universes. I don't really like the whole "let's gang up on Beerus!" thing, though. The anime gave us a few things here and there, but it was mostly about Universe 9 and 11. Sucks that Buu probably won't get a fight in the manga. Now I know it's a bit early to call that, but I doubt Toyotaro will replace someone on the 10 man roster for Buu. Maybe he'll get a sparring match and then fall asleep like the anime, but that's it.

[Hugo Boss]

Fantastic chapter. One thing I really like about Toyotaro's take on the Zen Exhibition Match is the focus on the gods of the other Universes. I don't really like the whole "let's gang up on Beerus!" thing, though. The anime gave us a few things here and there, but it was mostly about Universe 9 and 11. Sucks that Buu probably won't get a fight in the manga. Now I know it's a bit early to call that, but I doubt Toyotaro will replace someone on the 10 man roster for Buu. Maybe he'll get a sparring match and then fall asleep like the anime, but that's it.

I'm actually expecting "Fit" Boo to appear in the next chapters. He probably won't be in the tournament, though.

[Big Black Sayian]

It was pretty nice to see some background as the other Gods. I think we might still see Goku vs Toppo action.