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Shaddy wrote:One good chapter won't save an entire arc. And that's assuming it would be good at all.
Thirded, seriously a universal battle royale shouldn't feel this empty.Lukmendes wrote:
Even if the last chapter is the most amazing thing that ever happened in dragon ball, won't really change the overall feeling that the manga is lacking in ToP.
Generally, I try to avoid discussing "What would you have done to make it better" because I find that to be really easy stuff. Any idiot can "fix" something since the bulk of the creative work has already been done and hindsight is 20/20. I'll avoid doing that and just say I wouldn't have had a big singular tournament.Alruneia wrote: I know this is a bit of a what-if, but what do you think Tori/Toyo/Toei/etc. should, or even could, have done to make the ToP more than just a long fight scene, as you put it?
Tbh, I think your understanding of the manga is abysmal. You're doing that thing I accused the dragonball fandom of doing earlier where you're just looking at results instead of the context.Son-Kakaroto wrote:So ultimate gohan is as strong as kefla whos stronger then kale whos stronger then mssj blue, but gohan is somehow not stronger then mssj blue?
Do we know if there is an interview in this volume?SSJgogeto wrote:Cover of volume 8:
She fought both of them well, got even stronger and went to eliminate fodder who we have no idea how strong they are, again, that tells me nothing, Aniliza included, all he did was fuse and get crushed, and since in the manga we're not shown how strong he is, the only thing that separates him from most of the other fodder she eliminated is that he has a name, only when she fought the likes of Goku and Freeza we actualy saw how strong she's supposed to be.Miracles wrote:You didn't see how Freeza used Frost to eliminate U9? He also used Tien and Krillian as sacrifices to gain Frost trust too. This demonstrated Freeza's devious persona. Kale wasting Uni's etc...reecehoward wrote:How were stronger characters developed? Only Jiren and Kale were treated as legitimate threats. Out of 70 other contestants, only two were legitimate threats.lolMiracles wrote:
The manga from a structure standpoint handled the TOP better than the anime. The way it didn't waste time on fodder but actually used them to develop the stronger characters.
Now I understa.nd why people are saying the anime's TOP is better than the manga but that is only due to emotional aspect because it has advantage with visual, visible and musical arts.
Besides, only a handful of fights were memorable from the anime's TOP and they were mostly the Goku vs Jiren special Goku vs Kefla and the last fight between them. The rest of the TOP was mediocre and bad.
Even Hit was better developed in the manga. Overcoming his weakness of relying on time skip and actually honing what matters in DB, battle power.It did develop how strong Kale is cause the TOP was about attrition. When she can spar with Golden freeza and Blue Goku then go and waste other universes untied fronts, especially with the fusion of Aniliza, it demonstrates the power of the legendary SSJ. No need for long drawn out battles with fodder when you can slap them around like children.Lukmendes wrote:I'm not even comparing manga ToP with anime ToP, I actualy only watched 3 episodes from it, and of those 3, one I liked, one I disliked, and the last one is so forgettable I, well, forgot about it, I just find the manga ToP boring and I don't need to have watched the (supposedly) better version to think so, manga ToP started good though.Miracles wrote:
The manga from a structure standpoint handled the TOP better than the anime. The way it didn't waste time on fodder but actually used them to develop the stronger characters.
Now I understand why people are saying the anime's TOP is better than the manga but that is only due to emotional aspect because it has advantage with visual, visible and musical arts.
Besides, only a handful of fights were memorable from the anime's TOP and they were mostly the Goku vs Jiren special Goku vs Kefla and the last fight between them. The rest of the TOP was mediocre and bad.
Anyways, I don't agree about the manga using fodder to "develop" stronger characters means anything good, She-Broly elimitated a bunch of universes in a few panels, does that tell me how strong she is? No, because I have no idea how strong those guys are supposed to be, even when defeated that fused guy I wouldn't be able to tell how strong she's supposed to be since we don't know how strong he is in comparison with everyone else, however, when she was slapping Golden Freeza around and briefly overwhelmed CSSGSS Goku, that tells me how strong she is, and that happened before she went on an elimitation spree, so her defeating a bunch of fodder did nothing to develop her.
Let me be clear...We don't need to know how strong those other universes are because they are fodder compared to a Kale who was smacking Golden and Blue Goku around before.Lukmendes wrote:She fought both of them well, got even stronger and went to eliminate fodder who we have no idea how strong they are, again, that tells me nothing, Aniliza included, all he did was fuse and get crushed, and since in the manga we're not shown how strong he is, the only thing that separates him from most of the other fodder she eliminated is that he has a name, only when she fought the likes of Goku and Freeza we actualy saw how strong she's supposed to be.Miracles wrote:You didn't see how Freeza used Frost to eliminate U9? He also used Tien and Krillian as sacrifices to gain Frost trust too. This demonstrated Freeza's devious persona. Kale wasting Uni's etc...reecehoward wrote: How were stronger characters developed? Only Jiren and Kale were treated as legitimate threats. Out of 70 other contestants, only two were legitimate threats.lol
Even Hit was better developed in the manga. Overcoming his weakness of relying on time skip and actually honing what matters in DB, battle power.It did develop how strong Kale is cause the TOP was about attrition. When she can spar with Golden freeza and Blue Goku then go and waste other universes untied fronts, especially with the fusion of Aniliza, it demonstrates the power of the legendary SSJ. No need for long drawn out battles with fodder when you can slap them around like children.Lukmendes wrote:
I'm not even comparing manga ToP with anime ToP, I actualy only watched 3 episodes from it, and of those 3, one I liked, one I disliked, and the last one is so forgettable I, well, forgot about it, I just find the manga ToP boring and I don't need to have watched the (supposedly) better version to think so, manga ToP started good though.
Anyways, I don't agree about the manga using fodder to "develop" stronger characters means anything good, She-Broly elimitated a bunch of universes in a few panels, does that tell me how strong she is? No, because I have no idea how strong those guys are supposed to be, even when defeated that fused guy I wouldn't be able to tell how strong she's supposed to be since we don't know how strong he is in comparison with everyone else, however, when she was slapping Golden Freeza around and briefly overwhelmed CSSGSS Goku, that tells me how strong she is, and that happened before she went on an elimitation spree, so her defeating a bunch of fodder did nothing to develop her.
Yeah, I know, I'm saying that her defeating all of them doesn't develop how strong she is since we don't know how strong they are, 'cause really, if she just eliminated the fodder without fighting Goku and Freeza, and almost eliminating Vegeta and Toppo, then got dominated by pride troopers, all that would tells us is that she's stronger than Frost, but not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but her fighting Goku and Freeza well tells us she's a beast and eliminating the fodder is just extra.Miracles wrote:Let me be clear...We don't need to know how strong those other universes are because they are fodder compared to a Kale who was smacking Golden and Blue Goku around.Lukmendes wrote:She fought both of them well, got even stronger and went to eliminate fodder who we have no idea how strong they are, again, that tells me nothing, Aniliza included, all he did was fuse and get crushed, and since in the manga we're not shown how strong he is, the only thing that separates him from most of the other fodder she eliminated is that he has a name, only when she fought the likes of Goku and Freeza we actualy saw how strong she's supposed to be.Miracles wrote: You didn't see how Freeza used Frost to eliminate U9? He also used Tien and Krillian as sacrifices to gain Frost trust too. This demonstrated Freeza's devious persona. Kale wasting Uni's etc...
Even Hit was better developed in the manga. Overcoming his weakness of relying on time skip and actually honing what matters in DB, battle power.
It did develop how strong Kale is cause the TOP was about attrition. When she can spar with Golden freeza and Blue Goku then go and waste other universes untied fronts, especially with the fusion of Aniliza, it demonstrates the power of the legendary SSJ. No need for long drawn out battles with fodder when you can slap them around like children.
I always have mixed feelings about these random covers. Not only about DB, but the other mangas too.SSJgogeto wrote:Cover of volume 8:Spoiler:
Fair enough. I can see your point about fixing canon in hindsight (sometimes called "fix-fics" when done in fan fiction format). Just to be clear, my goal wasn't to call you out in some sort of "yeah well can you think of anything better" attack, I was just wondering if you had any concrete wishes or thoughts. I've already heard a fair bit of ideas for how the plot could be more than just a tournament, so I'm okay with leaving it at that if you don't feel like it.TKA wrote:Generally, I try to avoid discussing "What would you have done to make it better" because I find that to be really easy stuff. Any idiot can "fix" something since the bulk of the creative work has already been done and hindsight is 20/20. I'll avoid doing that and just say I wouldn't have had a big singular tournament.Alruneia wrote: I know this is a bit of a what-if, but what do you think Tori/Toyo/Toei/etc. should, or even could, have done to make the ToP more than just a long fight scene, as you put it?
Oh lord, not the "they are fodder" argument.lol Why make them fodder in the first place?! All of these fighters didnt have to be thrown away like they were. And Kale just steam rolling through fodder does nothing because literally anybody in her tier could do so and probably come out better than she did. To make matters worse is they show this same Kale being dominated by the Pride Troopers that were actually established in the power rankings earlier in the tournament. So this tournament only produced like 3 worthwhile opponents; Jiren, Kale/Kefla, and Hit. Hit was the only one who did something mildly interestimg out of the 3 and even THAT was a watered down version of what he did in the anime, which was even less effective as it only slows an opponent down.Miracles wrote:Let me be clear...We don't need to know how strong those other universes are because they are fodder compared to a Kale who was smacking Golden and Blue Goku around before.Lukmendes wrote:She fought both of them well, got even stronger and went to eliminate fodder who we have no idea how strong they are, again, that tells me nothing, Aniliza included, all he did was fuse and get crushed, and since in the manga we're not shown how strong he is, the only thing that separates him from most of the other fodder she eliminated is that he has a name, only when she fought the likes of Goku and Freeza we actualy saw how strong she's supposed to be.Miracles wrote: You didn't see how Freeza used Frost to eliminate U9? He also used Tien and Krillian as sacrifices to gain Frost trust too. This demonstrated Freeza's devious persona. Kale wasting Uni's etc...
Even Hit was better developed in the manga. Overcoming his weakness of relying on time skip and actually honing what matters in DB, battle power.
It did develop how strong Kale is cause the TOP was about attrition. When she can spar with Golden freeza and Blue Goku then go and waste other universes untied fronts, especially with the fusion of Aniliza, it demonstrates the power of the legendary SSJ. No need for long drawn out battles with fodder when you can slap them around like children.
Their purpose was to show that this lunatic can keep on tugging even after tussling with god level beings in Goku and Freeza.
Compared to a person who was rag dolling golden Freeza and Blue Goku...They are fodder.reecehoward wrote:Oh lord, not the "they are fodder" argument.lol Why make them fodder in the first place?! All of these fighters didnt have to be thrown away like they were. And Kale just steam rolling through fodder does nothing because literally anybody in her tier could do so and probably come out better than she did. To make matters worse is they show this same Kale being dominated by the Pride Troopers that were actually established in the power rankings earlier in the tournament. So this tournament only produced like 3 worthwhile opponents; Jiren, Kale/Kefla, and Hit. Hit was the only one who did something mildly interestimg out of the 3 and even THAT was a watered down version of what he did in the anime, which was even less effective as it only slows an opponent down.Miracles wrote:Let me be clear...We don't need to know how strong those other universes are because they are fodder compared to a Kale who was smacking Golden and Blue Goku around before.Lukmendes wrote:
She fought both of them well, got even stronger and went to eliminate fodder who we have no idea how strong they are, again, that tells me nothing, Aniliza included, all he did was fuse and get crushed, and since in the manga we're not shown how strong he is, the only thing that separates him from most of the other fodder she eliminated is that he has a name, only when she fought the likes of Goku and Freeza we actualy saw how strong she's supposed to be.
Their purpose was to show that this lunatic can keep on tugging even after tussling with god level beings in Goku and Freeza.
Sorry if it came off like I was being rude or curt. I just don't like the idea of proposing "fixes".Alruneia wrote: Fair enough. I can see your point about fixing canon in hindsight (sometimes called "fix-fics" when done in fan fiction format). Just to be clear, my goal wasn't to call you out in some sort of "yeah well can you think of anything better" attack, I was just wondering if you had any concrete wishes or thoughts. I've already heard a fair bit of ideas for how the plot could be more than just a tournament, so I'm okay with leaving it at that if you don't feel like it.
Yes. They're not gonna let Toyotaro go on an extended break and they're not gonna let the film go by without a manga adaption, imo.ShadowBardock89 wrote:Does anyone believe the events of the Broly film will be covered in the manga?
Didnt they already say it would?ShadowBardock89 wrote:Does anyone believe the events of the Broly film will be covered in the manga?
Not officially. But everything points to it.PFM18 wrote:Didnt they already say it would?ShadowBardock89 wrote:Does anyone believe the events of the Broly film will be covered in the manga?
I'm pretty sure they already said Toyotaro would be doing a manga version of the events.ankokudaishogun wrote:Not officially. But everything points to it.PFM18 wrote:Didnt they already say it would?ShadowBardock89 wrote:Does anyone believe the events of the Broly film will be covered in the manga?
I have no idea why people can't reach this conclusion. It's pretty obvious Toyotarou is just gonna continue what he's doing, there doesn't even need to be a confirmation.PFM18 wrote:I'm pretty sure they already said Toyotaro would be doing a manga version of the events.
