"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Sora Saiyan]

I'm sorry but this sounds like a fanfiction more than anything I have seen from the DBS Anime

If this happened in the anime I bet lots of people would be complaining right now, but since it happened in the manga it's perfectly fine because the manga is flawless

Since when was the manga flawless? Pretty sure almost everybody here has a couple of issues with every chapter. Anyway that’s besides the point, even though this is pretty stupid how it came out of nowhere, at least it gives a little bit of a reason as to why 17 has gotten so strong. The main issue is that nobody sensed them at any point, unless they did but 17 dealt with them at that stage. Also I have no idea how 17 managed to hold them off at first, but I guess by the time 17 met them he was stronger than them somehow.

I think people would be lying if they said they are perfectly happy with it, but the some of the biggest complaints I’ve seen from people who hate on the anime is the power scaling, or how people are suddenly ridiculously strong for no reason, or reasons that people don’t believe are good enough. Well the one plus that comes with this, even if it does open a different can of worms, is that it helps to swallow 17s gains.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

I can't believe what I am sawing here ! Tori Toei Toyo please hire me already because you become closer to what I have in mind for Dragon Ball

[jeffbr92]

So we got a bonus chapter focused on what Trunks and Goten were up to during the tournament. It's rather Interesting to say the least, here's a translation from Herms. https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 7769030656

WTF? This doesn't make a god damn sense! How did he do that? Don't tell me that he knew by the exactly moment Cell created them? Saibamen would be more logical.


Also people want us to swallow that the reason 17 is SSJ3/Blue tier is because he fought a lot of Cell Juniors? lol

[Gokitalo]

It all makes sense if you ignore the fact that none of the Z warriors picked up multiple Cell level powers throughout the years :/

Well, seeing as Cell possessed the DNA and techniques of various members of the main cast, he probably had the ability to suppress his power as well, which the Cell Juniors could have inherited. I know, not the most foolproof explanation-- I assume they couldn't hide their battle powers when battling 17, for example-- but they probably could outside of battle. So maybe Goku and co. may have at times felt sharp ki spikes coming from the island, but since they vanished so quickly, they didn't think it was worth checking out.

[ZombieVito]

- DBS manga bonus chapter-

This Cell Jr stuff doesn't make any sense, even if if they had all the abilities Cell has.

- First off, Cell isn't like Buu. He can only regenerate as long as the core in his head is not destroyed and thus the biggest plot hole of this franchise was born, when Goku destroyed his upper part with a kamehameha. No head - No core - No regeneration - Cell is dead - Goku won.

- Second, I'm pretty sure Gohan destroyed most Cell Jrs heads.

- Third, why nobody from the main cast sensed their ki?!

- Fourth, assuming for some plot hole reason they could regenerate, all of them should have gotten zenkais like Cell got. If so, why they wouldn't attack Gohan together with Cell back then?! Things would become troublesome.

But yeah, C17 got stronger by training with Cell Jrs. Let's revive more villains. It's like that was the only way for C17 to get stronger...

Exactly this. To add another thing to this: Why didn't they regenerated sooner? How convenient they did after Cell died and everyone left.



Toyo is still a terrible writer as always.

[jeffbr92]

Gohan's only noteworthy lifetime achievement, taken away. Good riddance.

My only doubt is who Toriyama hates most: Gohan or Yamcha.

[Marlowe89]

I think people would be lying if they said they are perfectly happy with it

I'm perfectly happy with it. It's a short, cute gag chapter that shows what the kids were up to while on the island. It's not at all dissimilar in style to Toriyama's Neko Majin, another gag manga that raises even more questions than it answers when taken more seriously than it needs to be. There's a reason it's not a part of the mainline chapters.

As always, people are missing the point.

[TheOne]

- DBS manga bonus chapter-

This Cell Jr stuff doesn't make any sense, even if if they had all the abilities Cell has.

- First off, Cell isn't like Buu. He can only regenerate as long as the core in his head is not destroyed and thus the biggest plot hole of this franchise was born, when Goku destroyed his upper part with a kamehameha. No head - No core - No regeneration - Cell is dead - Goku won.

- Second, I'm pretty sure Gohan destroyed most Cell Jrs heads.

- Third, why nobody from the main cast sensed their ki?!

- Fourth, assuming for some plot hole reason they could regenerate, all of them should have gotten zenkais like Cell got. If so, why they wouldn't attack Gohan together with Cell back then?! Things would become troublesome.

But yeah, C17 got stronger by training with Cell Jrs. Let's revive more villains. It's like that was the only way for C17 to get stronger...

Exactly this. To add another thing to this: Why didn't they regenerated sooner? How convenient they did after Cell died and everyone left.



Toyo is still a terrible writer as always.

If you think Toyo is bad, you should watch the anime. At least this guy ATTEMPTS to make sense of things.

Personally I believe Cell should’ve been brought back instead of Frieza.

[Bergamo]

- DBS manga bonus chapter-

This Cell Jr stuff doesn't make any sense, even if if they had all the abilities Cell has.

- First off, Cell isn't like Buu. He can only regenerate as long as the core in his head is not destroyed and thus the biggest plot hole of this franchise was born, when Goku destroyed his upper part with a kamehameha. No head - No core - No regeneration - Cell is dead - Goku won.

- Second, I'm pretty sure Gohan destroyed most Cell Jrs heads.

- Third, why nobody from the main cast sensed their ki?!

- Fourth, assuming for some plot hole reason they could regenerate, all of them should have gotten zenkais like Cell got. If so, why they wouldn't attack Gohan together with Cell back then?! Things would become troublesome.

But yeah, C17 got stronger by training with Cell Jrs. Let's revive more villains. It's like that was the only way for C17 to get stronger...

Exactly this. To add another thing to this: Why didn't they regenerated sooner? How convenient they did after Cell died and everyone left.



Toyo is still a terrible writer as always.

How horrible of Toyo. He couldn't even make a gag chapter that is wacky and exists perfectly within continuity. It's almost as if the Fake Cell Jrs aren't supposed to make sense.

[Draconic]

These bonus chapters keep getting better and better. Probably my favorite part of Toyotaro's work.

[BlueBasilisk]

Toyotaro really seems to have it in for Gohan. First he guilts Trunks into going back to the future timeline instead of staying in the present, now this.

[ZombieVito]

If you think Toyo is bad, you should watch the anime. At least this guy ATTEMPTS to make sense of things.

Personally I believe Cell should’ve been brought back instead of Frieza.

I have yet to see something for the anime not making sense. This return has a lot of problems and contradictions but meh, it shouldn't surprise me after the awful FT arc he did.

That arc is contradiction galore in the manga.

[Bergamo]

If you think Toyo is bad, you should watch the anime. At least this guy ATTEMPTS to make sense of things.

Personally I believe Cell should’ve been brought back instead of Frieza.

I have yet to see something for the anime not making sense. This return has a lot of problems and contradictions but meh, it shouldn't surprise me after the awful FT arc he did.

That arc is contradiction galore in the manga.

I'll accept the FT manga arc being bad if you explain what Super Saiyan Rage is. And what Zamas' Giant Bird thing is. Those two, please.

[supersaiyanZero]

It's unbelievable, the anime made zero sense time and time again, actively taking multiple steps back with nonsense retcons (out of laziness), nonsense fan pandering, nonsense fan fiction quality writing, and it's supporters have ZERO issues with it.

One GAG chapter in the manga (addressing a huge pothole the anime just conveniently said "well, fuck it" and didn't even bother addressing) these same people are up in arms ready to burn down the house. The manga had been objectively superior to the anime in almost EVERY way. And don't get me wrong, I still think any incarnation of Super is garbage level material, but what Toyo is doing is nothing short of a miracle.

What it really strikes me as is that the anime was so bad that these people are desperate for ANY sort of conflict with the manga just to either vent their frustration or protect their flimsy little house of Toei worship. These people are why we're getting garbage like Golden Cooler and SSj4 generic "evil saiyans" in 8 minute barely animated segments.

Sad.

[ZombieVito]

I'll accept the FT manga arc being bad if you explain what Super Saiyan Rage is. And what Zamas' Giant Bird thing is. Those two, please.

OK. I'll give you Ikari (Even though it's obvious it's a pre-Blue transformation that is leaking ki) but Zamasu's Wall of Light? Really? What's not to understand about that?

Also nothing about those 2 points contradicts a single thing...

It's unbelievable, the anime made zero sense time and time again, actively taking multiple steps back with nonsense retcons (out of laziness), nonsense fan pandering, nonsense fan fiction quality writing, and it's supporters have ZERO issues with it.

One GAG chapter in the manga and these same people are up in arms ready to burn down the house. The manga had been objectively superior to the anime in almost EVERY way. And don't get me wrong, I still think any incarnation of Super is garbage level material, but what Toyo is doing is nothing short of a miracle.

What it really strikes me as is that the anime was so bad that these people are desperate for ANY sort of conflict with the manga just to either vent their frustration or protect their flimsy little house of Toei worship.

Sad.

I'm sorry but I couldn't read this with a straight face. Almost all of the ToP has been inferior to the anime version so far.

Or are you really going to tell me that Kuririn, 18, Hit and Piccolo's performance were better in the manga? Don't make me laugh.

[Bergamo]

I'll accept the FT manga arc being bad if you explain what Super Saiyan Rage is. And what Zamas' Giant Bird thing is. Those two, please.

OK. I'll give you Ikari (Even though it's obvious it's a pre-Blue transformation that is leaking ki) but Zamasu's Wall of Light? Really? What's not to understand about that?

Also nothing about those 2 points contradicts a single thing...

It's unbelievable, the anime made zero sense time and time again, actively taking multiple steps back with nonsense retcons (out of laziness), nonsense fan pandering, nonsense fan fiction quality writing, and it's supporters have ZERO issues with it.

One GAG chapter in the manga and these same people are up in arms ready to burn down the house. The manga had been objectively superior to the anime in almost EVERY way. And don't get me wrong, I still think any incarnation of Super is garbage level material, but what Toyo is doing is nothing short of a miracle.

What it really strikes me as is that the anime was so bad that these people are desperate for ANY sort of conflict with the manga just to either vent their frustration or protect their flimsy little house of Toei worship.

Sad.

I'm sorry but I couldn't read this with a straight face. Almost all of the ToP has been inferior to the anime version so far.

Or are you really going to tell me that Kuririn, 18, Hit and Piccolo's performance were better in the manga? Don't make me laugh.

1. Okay, if you're fine with random undeserved power-ups like Ikari, that's one thing, but what are the contradictions in the manga?

2.A well-written story isn't about the performance of individual characters. Is the Baba Urani arc bad because Upa and Puar out-performed Krillin? Is the Saiyan arc bad because Tien died without doing any major damage?

[LimitbreakerKrillin]

Cell jr's could very well just lower their KI and went into hiding, not wanting to deal with SSJ2 Gohan, especially since he killed their papa.
This brings into question are all bonus pages part of the manga canon? Including the one where Zamasu traded bodies with Monaka?

[ZombieVito]

1. Okay, if you're fine with random undeserved power-ups like Ikari, that's one thing, but what are the contradictions in the manga?

2.A well-written story isn't about the performance of individual characters. Is the Baba Urani arc bad because Upa and Puar out-performed Krillin? Is the Saiyan arc bad because Tien died without doing any major damage?

Of course I'm OK with Ikari. It made Trunks matter on his own arc instead of ending up like this:



Undeserving? So? Gohan got Super Saiyan 2 the same way.

Out of the top of my head:

- Zamasu using the time rings when it was stated only the Kaioshin can.
- SS2 Vegeta owning SS Black. This breaks the power scale so badly.
- Trunks not knowing he had healing powers after taking the ritual to be an apprentice Kaioshin. Seriously why did he do this if he didn't know the benefits?
- Completed Blue is stated to just be Goku fighting at 100% constantly. It was never said to be stronger yet he fights with Zamasu evenly.
- Goku erasing half Zamasu when later on Beerus states he can't erase immortal beings.
- Both Zamasu's merging at a celular level when one of them isn't even on the same body.

It's a story about a tournament, of course the performance of the main cast matters.

[Bergamo]

1. Okay, if you're fine with random undeserved power-ups like Ikari, that's one thing, but what are the contradictions in the manga?

2.A well-written story isn't about the performance of individual characters. Is the Baba Urani arc bad because Upa and Puar out-performed Krillin? Is the Saiyan arc bad because Tien died without doing any major damage?

Of course I'm OK with Ikari. It made Trunks matter on his own arc instead of ending up like this:



Undeserving? So? Gohan got Super Saiyan 2 the same way.

Out of the top of my head:

- Zamasu using the time rings when it was stated only the Kaioshin can.
- SS2 Vegeta owning SS Black. This breaks the power scale so badly.
- Trunks not knowing he had healing powers after taking the ritual to be an apprentice Kaioshin. Seriously why did he do this if he didn't know the benefits?
- Completed Blue is stated to just be Goku fighting at 100% constantly. It was never said to be stronger yet he fights with Zamasu evenly.
- Goku erasing half Zamasu when later on Beerus states he can't erase immortal beings.
- Both Zamasu's merging at a celular level when one of them isn't even on the same body.

It's a story about a tournament, of course the performance of the main cast matters.

Ikari is not the same as SS2. Gohan was the most powerful fighter, he has been known to have insane potential, and he had been training for years in the time chamber. All of his efforts and his potential culminated in his awakening to SS2. Trunks got angry and then Jumped from SS2 level to SSB level.

About your contradictions...
1. To use the time rings in the manga, you need to be wearing a Kaioshin's portara.
2. No it doesn't.
3. Trunks never finished his Kaioshin's apprentice training because Babidi showed up sooner than expected.
4. Characters don't usually fight at 100% power. 100% has always been a distinction, like 100% Frieza and Full Power Super Saiyan.
5. Goku didn't erase Zamas from existence. No contradiction here.
6. The different bodies is literally the point of the fusion. Besides, this is explained about as much as Infinite Zamas in the anime.

[ZombieVito]

Ikari is not the same as SS2. Gohan was the most powerful fighter, he has been known to have insane potential, and he had been training for years in the time chamber. All of his efforts and his potential culminated in his awakening to SS2. Trunks got angry and then Jumped from SS2 level to SSB level.

About your contradictions...
1. To use the time rings in the manga, you need to be wearing a Kaioshin's portara.
2. No it doesn't.
3. Trunks never finished his Kaioshin's apprentice training because Babidi showed up sooner than expected.
4. Characters don't usually fight at 100% power. 100% has always been a distinction, like 100% Frieza and Full Power Super Saiyan.
5. Goku didn't erase Zamas from existence. No contradiction here.
6. The different bodies is literally the point of the fusion. Besides, this is explained about as much as Infinite Zamas in the anime.

Trunks has been fighting Black for an entire year and has more potential than Gohan.

1.- No. It was stated you actually need to be a Kaioshin. Zamasu was not.
2.- Yes it does. It makes Black millions of times stronger than Blue Goku/Vegeta.
3.- Incorrect. It was never said it didn't finish it.
4.- You don't get it. How is Blue Goku fighting with a fusion of himself with another person evenly? Vegeta never said complete Blue is stronger only that it doesn't get weaker with time, fighting at 100% constatly.
5.- He was erasing him.
6.- I see nothing wrong with Infinite Zamasu in the anime.