"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[OLKv3]

Pretty sure Goku knew this beforehand, the only one to learn anything from the Fusion was Vegeta learning that Goku could do this.

Oookkkaayyyy and he doesn't do this pre-fusion because?

That is my major gripe with this whole thing. It's seem so contrived that all of sudden now it's discovered that Goku had mastered SSJB. It's such a vital plot point because Goku could have potentially ended this arc from the beginning, but seemed to choose not to. It's really no better than Future Trunks unknown rage/anger based SSJ transformation in the anime because the lack of build up to such a pivotal moment makes that moment all the more jarring and sudden.

Because he never fought Black in the manga
He offered to face Black, Vegeta told him he had it.

In the first fight, Goku drops SSB and uses SSJ on Zamasu. Loses due to not knowing he could get frozen
In the return visit, Vegeta fought Black while Goku conserved his ki for the Mafuba. Then he used SSG on Zamasu.
Against Merged Zamasu, Trunks states Goku is weakened from the Mafuba and can't fight at full power

There were reasons listed throughout the entire arc.

[Kanassa]

Can you believe Gohan still hasn't made a single appearance in this manga since Chapter 4.

It's not really hard to believe. Toriyama gave Gohan nothing to do after the arc Toyo skipped until the US Arc

[Lord Beerus]

Oookkkaayyyy and he doesn't do this pre-fusion because?

That is my major gripe with this whole thing. It's seem so contrived that all of sudden now it's discovered that Goku had mastered SSJB. It's such a vital plot point because Goku could have potentially ended this arc from the beginning, but seemed to choose not to. It's really no better than Future Trunks unknown rage/anger based SSJ transformation in the anime because the lack of build up to such a pivotal moment makes that moment all the more jarring and sudden.

Because he never fought Black in the manga
He offered to face Black, Vegeta told him he had it.

In the first fight, Goku drops SSB and uses SSJ on Zamasu. Loses due to not knowing he could get frozen
In the return visit, Vegeta fought Black while Goku conserved his ki for the Mafuba. Then he used SSG on Zamasu.
Against Merged Zamasu, Trunks states Goku is weakened from the Mafuba and can't fight at full power

There were reasons listed throughout the entire arc.

And they're are dumb reasons. Hell, when Goku and Vegeta actually go up against Goku Black, Vegeta just jumps straight into fighting Black and spends forever kicking his ass just for shits and giggles. And the only time when Goku interjects is when Future Trunks tells Goku to end the fight as quick as possible and Goku tells Vegeta to forget letting him have crack at Goku Black. And Goku dropping out SSJB to fight Zamasu was also really dumb and unnecessary. Once SSJR happened and they came to the future again, Goku should spoken up to Vegeta and tell him that he can end this fight quickly, turn SSJB, contain its power and kill Goku Black. And considering that Goku didn't think Zamasu was that powerful, he wouldn't have even needed to transform into a SSJB to perform the mafuba on him. He could have been a SSJG or even use one of the golden SSJ forms.

[Pluto]

I am afraid the manga has lost its touch, 24 was packed with fun, but with protagonist negligence at max.

[sintzu]

Say what you want about Goku here but at least they gave a reason to why he can fight Zamasu. In the anime he just can and no one questions it.

[OLKv3]

That is my major gripe with this whole thing. It's seem so contrived that all of sudden now it's discovered that Goku had mastered SSJB. It's such a vital plot point because Goku could have potentially ended this arc from the beginning, but seemed to choose not to. It's really no better than Future Trunks unknown rage/anger based SSJ transformation in the anime because the lack of build up to such a pivotal moment makes that moment all the more jarring and sudden.

Because he never fought Black in the manga
He offered to face Black, Vegeta told him he had it.

In the first fight, Goku drops SSB and uses SSJ on Zamasu. Loses due to not knowing he could get frozen
In the return visit, Vegeta fought Black while Goku conserved his ki for the Mafuba. Then he used SSG on Zamasu.
Against Merged Zamasu, Trunks states Goku is weakened from the Mafuba and can't fight at full power

There were reasons listed throughout the entire arc.

And they're are dumb reasons. Hell, when Goku and Vegeta actually go up against Goku Black, Vegeta just jumps straight into fighting Black and spends forever kicking his ass just for shits and giggles. And the only time when Goku interjects is when Future Trunks tells Goku to end the fight as quick as possible and Goku tells Vegeta to forget letting him have crack at Goku Black. And Goku dropping out SSJB to fight Zamasu was also really dumb and unnecessary. Once SSJR happened and they came to the future again, Goku should spoken up to Vegeta and tell him that he can end this fight quickly, turn SSJB, contain its power and kill Goku Black. And considering that Goku didn't think Zamasu was that powerful, he wouldn't have even needed to transform into a SSJB to perform the mafuba on him. He could have been a SSJG or even use one of the golden SSJ forms.

He never used the form before. It's like using Kaioken x20 (or time x3/x4 against Vegeta). Why risk it when your partner has the battle in hand. Him using SSJ against Zamasu made perfect sense with what we know about SSB. Why waste energy against a weak opponent?

Sidenote, but I find it hilarious how DBS Future Trunks has Ki Pass in Dragon Ball Fusions. It fits now

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Can you believe Gohan still hasn't made a single appearance in this manga since Chapter 4.

He hasn't had a reason to, so I don't have a problem with it. It is a little funny, though.

[Lord Beerus]

Say what you want about Goku here but at least they gave a reason to why he can fight Zamasu. In the anime he just can and no one questions it.

The reason in the manga is pretty much the same as the anime: Goku is just inexplicably far more stronger and talented than Vegeta.

[sintzu]

The reason in the manga is pretty much the same as the anime: Goku is just inexplicably far more stronger and talented than Vegeta.

In the manga it's because Goku can use Blue's full power. In the anime he's just doing better for some reason. Is it because he's stronger or is it because Zamasu is holding back ? You can tell that Toyotaru is a fan because he always gives answers to questions fans would ask and he does that cause as a fan he'd also have those questions and would want answers to them. Toei's writers just do whatever because they don't care so they expect the viewer to also not care.

[TysonWine]

The reason in the manga is pretty much the same as the anime: Goku is just inexplicably far more stronger and talented than Vegeta.

In the manga it's because Goku can use Blue's full power. In the anime he's just doing better for some reason. Is it because he's stronger or is it because Zamasu is holding back ? You can tell that Toyotaru is a fan because he always gives answers to questions fans would ask and he does that cause as a fan he'd also have those questions and would want answers to them. Toei's writers just do whatever because they don't care so they expect the viewer to also not care.

This could've been fixed in the anime by simply having Goku use Kaioken 10 seconds earlier. He used it to kick Zamasu, so it was clearly on the writers minds. How they missed that opportunity, I have no idea.

[sintzu]

This could've been fixed in the anime by simply having Goku use Kaioken 10 seconds earlier. He used it to kick Zamasu, so it was clearly on the writers minds. How they missed that opportunity, I have no idea.

That's what everyone said when the episodes aired which shows how sloppy the writing is. There are so many things in the anime that could be explained by one sentence. The manga does it all the time, when a chapter leaks fans say it's BS then when it's trnaslated everything makes sense thanks to a sentence or 2. the manga and anime really show how different a fans' mind works compared to a suit's mind.

[Bullza]

Can you believe Gohan still hasn't made a single appearance in this manga since Chapter 4.

He hasn't had a reason to, so I don't have a problem with it. It is a little funny, though.

Did they give a reason as to why he wasn't there during the Universe 6 Tournament? He had a Press conference in the anime but I can't remember if that was said in the manga.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Did they give a reason as to why he wasn't there during the Universe 6 Tournament? He had a Press conference in the anime but I can't remember if that was said in the manga.

When Vegeta wanted to recruit Gohan, Goku advised against it on the grounds that he didn't like to fight anymore, and Videl mentions on the ride to the nameless planet that Gohan had a conference to attend. I'd say that counts. Even if you don't think that's enough, you have to remember that the manga was still a direct promotion for the anime back then, so things won't be as thorough when looking back at those chapters.

[Lord Beerus]

The reason in the manga is pretty much the same as the anime: Goku is just inexplicably far more stronger and talented than Vegeta.

In the manga it's because Goku can use Blue's full power. In the anime he's just doing better for some reason. Is it because he's stronger or is it because Zamasu is holding back ? You can tell that Toyotaru is a fan because he always gives answers to questions fans would ask and he does that cause as a fan he'd also have those questions and would want answers to them. Toei's writers just do whatever because they don't care so they expect the viewer to also not care.

The only reason he fight Merged Zamasu is because he can fight at full power for longer. It's just a case of Vegeta's not being able to maintain the absolute power of SSJB long enough to think he can defeat Merged Zamasu in time before he burns out too energy.

[Noah]

It's quite simple really. According to Dragon Ball time-travel logic, every time a trip to the past occurs, it branches the time-stream.

So why this concept was abandoned by in this arc? I mean should we have like 3 or 4 extra timelines due the retreat trips with the Time Machine?

[Basako]

The reason in the manga is pretty much the same as the anime: Goku is just inexplicably far more stronger and talented than Vegeta.

In the manga it's because Goku can use Blue's full power. In the anime he's just doing better for some reason. Is it because he's stronger or is it because Zamasu is holding back ? You can tell that Toyotaru is a fan because he always gives answers to questions fans would ask and he does that cause as a fan he'd also have those questions and would want answers to them. Toei's writers just do whatever because they don't care so they expect the viewer to also not care.

The only reason he fight Merged Zamasu is because he can fight at full power for longer. It's just a case of Vegeta's not being able to maintain the absolute power of SSJB long enough to think he can defeat Merged Zamasu in time before he burns out too energy.

It's not only about the amount of time, if it was only that, what would be the point of internalising the blue ki? Goku is using the full power of the SSB state, which Vegeta isn't able to do, even when his fully recovered, which is not the same as fully powered. It's visually stated, Goku puts the blue ki into his body and that gives him the 100% of the blue power. Vegeta just can't do that, yet.

There are reasons why Goku didn't fight Black and used the mastered blue with him. Now, I'd like to know for what reason he didn't use, let's say a SSBKKx4 ever in the anime against Black and he retreared twice to the past. He used the x2 against MZ, why that late? Man, considering he used a x10 in a tournament where there was nothing at stake.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Say what you want about Goku here but at least they gave a reason to why he can fight Zamasu. In the anime he just can and no one questions it.

The reason in the manga is pretty much the same as the anime: Goku is just inexplicably far more stronger and talented than Vegeta.

Goku is only stronger now because he thought of a different possibility of dominating SSB.

Is the same thing in the Saga Cell. Goku found a better solution to get stronger by dominating SSJ.

Vegeta preferred to focus on second and third grade SSJ forms.
Goku had better results.

But in this case Vegeta's strategy was helpful and clever, but Goku again found a better way to dominate SSB,But Vegeta can also dominate the SSB as Goku

[Miracles]

It's quite simple really. According to Dragon Ball time-travel logic, every time a trip to the past occurs, it branches the time-stream.

So why this concept was abandoned by in this arc? I mean should we have like 3 or 4 extra timelines due the retreat trips with the Time Machine?

Actually in order for a new world to be created, one has to alter the past. Merely traveling to the past does not do this.

The reason in the manga is pretty much the same as the anime: Goku is just inexplicably far more stronger and talented than Vegeta.

In the manga it's because Goku can use Blue's full power. In the anime he's just doing better for some reason. Is it because he's stronger or is it because Zamasu is holding back ? You can tell that Toyotaru is a fan because he always gives answers to questions fans would ask and he does that cause as a fan he'd also have those questions and would want answers to them. Toei's writers just do whatever because they don't care so they expect the viewer to also not care.

This could've been fixed in the anime by simply having Goku use Kaioken 10 seconds earlier. He used it to kick Zamasu, so it was clearly on the writers minds. How they missed that opportunity, I have no idea.

To be fair...In the anime Goku did say he is using "Full power" against merged Zamasu when he fired the Kamehameha.
It's really hard to tell if Vegeta ever used his full power. Especially after shielding Trunks from Zamasu's attack.

[Miracles]

It's quite simple really. According to Dragon Ball time-travel logic, every time a trip to the past occurs, it branches the time-stream.

So why this concept was abandoned by in this arc? I mean should we have like 3 or 4 extra timelines due the retreat trips with the Time Machine?

Actually in order for a new world to be created, one has to alter the past. Merely traveling to the past does not do this.

In the manga it's because Goku can use Blue's full power. In the anime he's just doing better for some reason. Is it because he's stronger or is it because Zamasu is holding back ? You can tell that Toyotaru is a fan because he always gives answers to questions fans would ask and he does that cause as a fan he'd also have those questions and would want answers to them. Toei's writers just do whatever because they don't care so they expect the viewer to also not care.

This could've been fixed in the anime by simply having Goku use Kaioken 10 seconds earlier. He used it to kick Zamasu, so it was clearly on the writers minds. How they missed that opportunity, I have no idea.

To be fair...In the anime Goku did say he is using "Full power" against merged Zamasu when he fired the Kamehameha.
It's really hard to tell if Vegeta ever used his full power. Especially after shielding Trunks from Zamasu's attack.

Say what you want about Goku here but at least they gave a reason to why he can fight Zamasu. In the anime he just can and no one questions it.

The reason in the manga is pretty much the same as the anime: Goku is just inexplicably far more stronger and talented than Vegeta.

Goku is only stronger now because he thought of a different possibility of dominating SSB.

Is the same thing in the Saga Cell. Goku found a better solution to get stronger by dominating SSJ.

Vegeta preferred to focus on second and third grade SSJ forms.
Goku had better results.

But in this case Vegeta's strategy was helpful and clever, but Goku again found a better way to dominate SSB,But Vegeta can also dominate the SSB as Goku

You are right. Vegeta even states that he can't use Blue's full power constantly "yet."
I was wondering wouldn't it be cool if Vegeta mastered the reacting without thinking skill instead of the Blue power?
Remember Whis was talking to Goku and Vegeta about that, something Beerus himself didn't even master.

[Noah]

So why this concept was abandoned by in this arc? I mean should we have like 3 or 4 extra timelines due the retreat trips with the Time Machine?

Actually in order for a new world to be created, one has to alter the past. Merely traveling to the past does not do this.

Was this ever implied anywhere in the series? And even if that's right, shouldn't also Trunks first trip (injured asking for help) create a new timeline?