"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Zephyr]

I don't think people would care about the fighters from the other universes getting thrown away easily if the U7 characters themselves hadn't been shafted too.

"I dont think people would care about Chapa and the other preliminary fighters at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai getting thrown away easily if Chaozu and Yajirobe hadn't been shafted."

Not everyone is a major part of every story that they're present for, and that's okay. Characters don't "deserve" a good performance or a dignified showing. Krillin and Tenshinhan were sacrificed, effectively, in order to further emphasize Freeza's nature as a wild card (rendering further poignant his eventual cooperation), and to build up to his ultimately double-crossing Frost. #18's and Piccolo's eliminations helped show how effective tricky strategies can be, which, as batistabus points out, delivers on Quitela's build up.

[alakazam^]

"I dont think people would care about Chapa and the other preliminary fighters at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai getting thrown away easily if Chaozu and Yajirobe hadn't been shafted."

Those 80 are main contestants, they're not the same as preliminary fighters fom the Tenkaichi Budoukai.

[superfan2024]

I actually really hope that this new "arc" is a new Toriyama arc. I don't want Toyo to do the Broly Arc so that once the new Super anime arrives, Toyo could be a pretty far pace ahead. Also, to those making the argument that the anime would catch up eventually since each manga chapter is released once a month, that argument could be countered with the prediction that the anime could just have a lot of filler. First, the anime could have like 5 eps of filler with hints to their re-telling of the Broly movie. Once they get to the re-telling, they should as much filler as possible (that is tolerable and makes sense to the story). Expand on the Freeza/Saiyan backstory and empire. expand on Goten, Trunks, and the Pilaf Gang's adventures, expand on the rest of the unseen Dragon Team. Afterwards, we should get like 10 more episodes of filler before we get to the new arc. Afterwards, the new arc will be your typical manga adaptation anime, with canon and filler material side by side within episodes. The anime should pace itself nicely and wisely so it could be at least 3 months away from the manga. I have faith it could work.

That'd be horrible and uncalled for... There's no reason the anime has to be behind the manga.

I hope this isn't a Toyotarou arc for them to gauge if he can handle his own for the future but we'll see what this is all about, if it even is true.

Horrible and uncalled for? What? Are you forgetting when Super did that exact thing from eps 28-33?

[PFM18]

It wouldn't. The Super anime was in the BoG arc when the manga started the Champa arc.

are you sure? I didn't think that was the case. I'm almost positive they were in the RoF arc in the anime when they started the Champa arc in the manga.

The manga's 5th chapter(the one that kicks off the Champa Arc) was released 3 days after episode 15, which was post BoG and pre RoF.
So it's close, but not quite for Doctor.

Alright so my intuition was correct. That sounds about right. Episode 15 is the first episode of the RoF arc.

[JulieYBM]

Dang, so it does take place after the Broli arc. At the very least, I hope this means the Broli arc will be recreated in the next series. I'm also hoping looking forward to seeing how this arc pans out since it'll come out before any animated adaption.

I still don't understand why everybody still thinks the anime will do a retelling or why anybody would want it.

Super had to do retellings of BoG & RoF because they weren't a part of Super's continuity and they had to change/add stuff. The broly film is already a part of Super's continuity. What would be the point of even doing the movie in the first place if they were just going to redo it again immediately after, only with inferior animation and dragged out pacing?

Movie #20 is in the same position as the prior two movies were. Additionally, those two movies were adapted to make it easier for those who hadn't seen the films to watch. Remaking the arc as a series is something Bandai would want for merchandise sales (not that I care to be their marketing executive), too. Adapting as an arc is also probably the only way we'll get the full text from Toriyama adapted, too, which I'm sure is something the production staff is going to want to try and accomplish, too.

I want it to be adapted into the series to see if Toriyama had an other ideas that were not adapted and to see the animation from the film potentially reused to increase the lead of the production schedule if possible.

[Zephyr]

"I dont think people would care about Chapa and the other preliminary fighters at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai getting thrown away easily if Chaozu and Yajirobe hadn't been shafted."

Those 80 are main contestants, they're not the same as preliminary fighters fom the Tenkaichi Budoukai.

In universe, yes, they're all main contestants. Narratively speaking, most of them are as important as the preliminary contestants. They serve the same function. Their lack of spotlight is equally justified.

At the Tenkaichi Budokai, the preliminary contestants, and even some of the finalists, are there as fodder to elucidate some quality or ability of a more important character, to create mystery, tension, or drama. Sometimes it's to show how great Goku has become, or to set up Ten's rematch with Tao, or to show that Quitela is indeed a crafty bastard, or that this crazed sort of Super Saiyan is a force to be reckoned with (foreshadowing the next story).

[prince212]

just checked the new video of TNM on Toyotaro. He needed 12 minutes to tell the viewers that the problems are panelling, reused images and homages. Things pretty much everyone knows and could be said in 10 seconds. Also if you're a comic/manga creator don't look up to Toyo but to other, much better mangaka... It's like saying if you're into movie making don't look at Michael Bay, but be like Steven Spielberg, Christopher Nolan or Akira Kurosawa.

Also , it’s very simple , if he’s that bad like most of the community is saying , I’m sure another one can create something better , right now is a good opportunity, go for it , start to work hard releasing free chapter after chapter like toyo and others did and some still are doing , provide me links of art fans series enjoyable, let’s help to get out of the anonymous them if they are worthed, that YouTuber could be a good editor right ? All of them... all of you guys..
Some people think Japanese (Shueisha) don’t know anything , when the are the Kings of doing comic manga , while most of the people who talk like they know everything, they just talk and do nothing else .

I'd also love to see that someone starts doing things on their own. I see a lot of people correcting Toyo's panels, so I am sure they would be great at editing a new project. But we all know that will never happen. In 5 days when the next chapter comes there will be just another video where the youtuber will be talking how Toyo pretty much sucks and Toriyama was way better. I love it how someone needs 10+ minutes just to say that. Anyways, it's really easy to criticise things when you know all of your fanbase will be happy with it.

You got the message!
Now , going to today’s topic , kind of mix feelings not having a broly arc. But the balance goes towards being glad about it .
B.o.G was an introduction to super that last 4 and 3/4 of chapters, R.o.F was a couple of flashbacks placed in the appropriate moment , and I was ok with that .
That doesn’t mean that I missed the ending of the promotional R.o.F manga , too bad that ( correct me if I’m wrong ) , none of the artist that are all around surpassing toyotaro paneling and skills , were able to make that manga just to promote themselves. If broly movie won’t get a manga adaptation, that’s another opportunity for them to show their skills .
Hyped about new arc , yes . No idea about jaco the galactic patrol man , is it worth to buy-read ?

[alakazam^]

Horrible and uncalled for? What? Are you forgetting when Super did that exact thing from eps 28-33?

What you're suggesting is filler galore so the anime stays behind the manga no matter what.

In universe, yes, they're all main contestants. Narratively speaking, most of them are as important as the preliminary contestants. They serve the same function. Their lack of spotlight is equally justified.

But that's not for you to decide. There are 70 people that can fulfill various roles going from "fodder" to "crucial to the story", why should 90% of them not have any presence at all? Kale didn't need to wipe 4 Universes out and Toyotarou could have done something fun with some of them.

[prince212]

There are 70 people that can fulfill various roles going from "fodder" to "crucial to the story", why should 90% of them not have any presence at all? Kale didn't need to wipe 4 Universes out and Toyotarou could have done something fun with some of them.

90% not presence at all is an exaggeration , I would say 50% , just the ones who kale eliminated. And even those ones serve for the purpose of showing the uncontrollable and combustible power of kale .
That being said , I think we all want more of new characters, but this is a 48 minutes tournament that it’s already feeling long in this 10 chapters . If so , I can complain about investing 3 chapters in the saiyan girls to ended up in an offscreen fight , just 5-6 pages could fix that , just the ones of unnecessary kulilin coments , for example .

[Saiga]

I'm actually down to have Toyotaro not adapt the Broly film. The more complementary the manga arcs are to Toriyama's films, rather than trying to act as alternatives to them, the better. Even his Battle of Gods adaptation felt more like an abridged recap/extended prologue to the Champa arc, than an entirely separate take (minor inconsistencies aside).

If he does adapt the Broly film, I hopes it's indeed akin to his Battle of Gods adaptation: more brief than a normal arc, and not wholly redundant.

My point is that the manga ToP was bad. People were defending it saying it wasn't Toyo's fault and he was just being rushed to get to Broly. I never bought into that since you totally COULD have made a good story in that amount of time, and as we can see now, Toyo doesn't seem to have been rushed in the slightest. Meaning the reason Toyo's manga has been bad recently is because he made it that way. That's all I'm saying.

People were also criticizing the manga saying that it was too rushed for the Broly movie.

Evidently, these people were wrong. And I'm glad to know that the TOP arc (seemingly) hadn't been rushed by external forces, because there were only a few missteps in pacing anyway (Gohan v Kafla being the major one, the time it took to eliminate the other universes is another).

I don't even think the latter is an example of rushing, if Kale wiping everyone out is what we're talking about. That's meant to be a big "oh fuck" chapter. It gives the Potara interesting utility, and serves to effectively foreshadow the next arc. There's nothing wrong with Kale stealing that much of the show; the big problem is indeed Gohan vs Kafla being placed into the background after she did so.

Unless everyone is still hung up on all of the glorified Tenkaichi Budokai prelim mooks getting unceremoniously eliminated, which more a lack of perspective than anything else.

I should have worded that clearer - I don't think the elimination of the other universes was rushed, but could have possibly been paced better. The whole Kale - Kafla sequence is a pretty solid block of material, it's the longest sequence before the finale. I think there could have been more room during it to dedicate to Gohan v Kafla if the earlier stuff was trimmed down.

So, if some of the universes (or even just more of the contestants) had been eliminated in chapters prior to Kale's rampage there could've been more room to show that final fight on-screen. That's about the only way I can think of to make room for it without giving Toyotarou more chapters to work with.

I also found the rapid succession of eliminations to be a tad monotonous, it does have that "oh fuck" feeling as they're eliminated one by one but that's still a lot of extra reaction panels.

[Metrite]

So it's looking like the main manga is going to just skip Broly like it did Freeza, and there will be some promotional manga like there was for Freeza's movie? If so, I'm quite disappointed. I like having the full story in manga form where I can enjoy reading it all from start to end when I have all the books. Back when the manga skipped the Freeza story, I figured it made sense seeing how that movie already had a promotional manga, but it made me hope that perhaps the promotional manga could be added along with an extra chapter to cover the fight with Freeza in the early volumes of the manga in order to deliver the full story. That didn't happen. Instead it was just left out altogether, which really bugs me. I hoped that would be a one time thing. But it looks like it will happen again with Broly. It just doesn't feel right to be reading the manga with somebody, then having to stop at certain points to pull out a DVD to watch a movie before you resume reading in order to experience the full story.

[Zephyr]

In universe, yes, they're all main contestants. Narratively speaking, most of them are as important as the preliminary contestants. They serve the same function. Their lack of spotlight is equally justified.

But that's not for you to decide. There are 70 people that can fulfill various roles going from "fodder" to "crucial to the story", why should 90% of them not have any presence at all? Kale didn't need to wipe 4 Universes out and Toyotarou could have done something fun with some of them.

What's not for me to decide?

I dont have the time right now to go back through all of the chapters right now, but beyond the most central core characters (Goku, Jiren, #17, Freeza, and arguably Vegeta and Kale in this version), a good number of the remaining 74 fulfill a myriad of roles.

Everyone Kale takes out, again, serves to communicate how crazy the form is, her own teammates and Anilaza especially. Frost, and everyone he takes out, Krillin and Tenshinhan especially, helps to further show how risky it is to be working with Freeza.

Gohan, Roshi, Hit, Toppo, Dyspo, Caulifla, Cabba, likewise function to assist, or flesh out, the core characters. Gamisaras, Damon, #18, and Piccolo, and everyone else the former two take out act to deliver on Quitela's buildup. Ribrianne, Kakunsa, and Rosie serve to create a gag with Beerus, Krillin, and Helles. The other Pride Troopers, and the Trio de Dangers help illustrate the effectiveness of teamwork.

That's roughly 40 distinct and memorable characters out of the 80 who have a notable presence. Are some of them relegated to fodder? Yes, but they are done so with purpose. That they are reduced to such helps communicate important things to the reader.

This is 80 people fighting, simultaneously, for less than an hour. There's no way to give most of the characters big spotlight moments without breaking suspension of disbelief, something the anime unintentionally went to great lengths to demonstrate.

Am I saying there's no room for improvement? Of course not. These characters could have shown off more interesting abilities while being eliminated. For the most part, though, I think it tracks nicely. It's a densely packed event, in universe, but I don't think that necessitates the telling of a sprawling and dense epic of a tale. You certainly could, but to argue it a sin not to just feels like you're trying to put the storyteller in a box. Less taking issue with what the story is, and looking at it on its own terms, and taking issue with what it isn't.

[Hellspawn28]

I look forward to the next story arc. It sounds like it be very cool or very bad.

[Bergamo]

"I dont think people would care about Chapa and the other preliminary fighters at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai getting thrown away easily if Chaozu and Yajirobe hadn't been shafted."

Those 80 are main contestants, they're not the same as preliminary fighters fom the Tenkaichi Budoukai.

In what way are they not the same? It's not like the 80 fighters in the ToP overcame some sort of trial to earn their spot as a competitor. In the ToP the vetting process that seperates the fodder from the high level participants is a natural one rather than forced through brackets.

You can't just say. "Nuh-uh," without backing up your claim. A one sentence response is hardly ever worthwhile.

[Chuquita]

I think I'd feel better about this next arc if Heroes hadn't done it first.

I get the time patrol and galaxy patrol are different entities, but it smells too much like that current DBH prison planet thing and that instantly makes me wary.

[GhoulEto]

0 hype, toyotaro is the worst mangaka, ugly drawings (shit anatomy), ugly story, ugly and short fights.

and this character ...I hope it's not him, literally hit, a 5 year old has more imagination ...

i'm a little angry

[AnimeNation101]

I think I'd feel better about this next arc if Heroes hadn't done it first.

I get the time patrol and galaxy patrol are different entities, but it smells too much like that current DBH prison planet thing and that instantly makes me wary.

But how?

SDBH Prison Planet Arc was literally just a battle royale on a planet with old and new enemies joining the fray. The whole aspect of being on a Prison didn’t even affect the story that much.

From what we know of the Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc, there is a Prisoner that has escaped the Galactic Patrol prison and Goku and Vegeta are needed to eithe recapture the guy or kill him.

Even the “prison” aspect of both arcs are differnt from one another.

People are just comparing the 2 arcs because they both have the word prison in them and the Galactic Patrol reminds people of the Time Patrol. And i find that stupid, no offense.

So please, tell me how this “smells” like the SDBH Prison Planet Arc even though all we know about the arc is its title and literally only half a manga page.

[Son-Kakaroto]

0 hype, toyotaro is the worst mangaka, ugly drawings (shit anatomy), ugly story, ugly and short fights.

and this character ...I hope it's not him, literally hit, a 5 year old has more imagination ...

i'm a little angry

Could you be any more toxic?

[Shaddy]

3 panels for Toyotaro is more like a fifth of a page.

Also, it's not bootleg Knuckles the new guy from Heroes. He's just a part of the new game and that continuity is (thank god) not going to crossover into the main one. If anything from it does, it'll be changed even harder than Broly (though with even less to work with).

[Chuquita]

I think I'd feel better about this next arc if Heroes hadn't done it first.

I get the time patrol and galaxy patrol are different entities, but it smells too much like that current DBH prison planet thing and that instantly makes me wary.

But how?

SDBH Prison Planet Arc was literally just a battle royale on a planet with old and new enemies joining the fray. The whole aspect of being on a Prison didn’t even affect the story that much.

From what we know of the Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc, there is a Prisoner that has escaped the Galactic Patrol prison and Goku and Vegeta are needed to eithe recapture the guy or kill him.

Even the “prison” aspect of both arcs are differnt from one another.

People are just comparing the 2 arcs because they both have the word prison in them and the Galactic Patrol reminds people of the Time Patrol. And i find that stupid, no offense.

So please, tell me how this “smells” like the SDBH Prison Planet Arc even though all we know about the arc is its title and literally only half a manga page.

I have a horrible feeling they're just going to retool Prison Planet and reuse stuff like Cooler and Cumber while removing any time travel stuff.

It's just; after bringing Brolli to canon anything is up for grabs, imo. Nothing's stopping them.

I don't think it's stupid; the DBH mini series is something a lot of people are aware of and have watched. The brain is like a thesaurus; you use similar key words people are going to associate the two. It'd be different if the two were occurring like several years apart, but it's happening during the same year. Surely one was at least inspired by the other.