"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

OMG, I probably shouldn't have spoiled this by browsing it in korean but if I didn't know any better I would have sworn Goku was about to get eliminated. I have no idea what Hit is saying but this Hit is the best version of Hit, period.

[Exline]

He was on a five days trip to germany.

This is no excuse.

How is that not an excuse? He had to do a month's worth of work in three weeks. There had to be concessions made somewhere.

A mangaka's work schedule is hellaciously brutal. Taking away even a few days is a huge deal. I'd rather the art take a minor dip if it means Toyotaro won't collapse from exhaustion like so many other anime/manga creators have in the past. Give the man a break.

I don't even see a problem with the art. It looks the same as usual if you ask me. The panel with Jiren uppercutting Hit was definitely something to remember.

His style's always felt simple to me as well.




On a side note, I really wish this could go to being a weekly or bi-weekly manga. Waiting a whole month just to see a single episode's worth of storytelling makes me and possibly many others quiet impatient.

I understand the life of a mangaka is such a daunting task, but I feel it'd be much easier to shorten the amount of pages per chapter. It's a good way of limiting how much dialogue and panels is really needed. I think Toyotaro could benefit from writing less panels with less pages. He seems to focus too much on basic attacks and anticipation panels that seem unneeded at some points.

I sometimes feel it's harder for him as well due to him having to fasten the pace on most of the chapters he writes only to catch up with the anime and upcoming movie.

[Rebel Instinct]

I don’t know if he has assistants but looks like Toyo needs some good ones , just for that exhaustion reason and for the shake of a future weekly series

A couple good assistants can be a lifesaver for a mangaka - both figuratively and sometimes even literally. It's frightening how many creators have literally worked themselves sick trying to meet their unforgiving schedules. Even without any preexisting illnesses, the sheer workload can and has resulted in the deterioration of an author's health. It's sad, but it's the reality of the situation. That's why I'm never hard on a mangaka for taking breaks or going on hiatuses. They often need it just to keep themselves going.

I don't even see a problem with the art. It looks the same as usual if you ask me. The panel with Jiren uppercutting Hit was definitely something to remember.

I don't think it's particularly bad either. but there are definitely a few off-model shots and awkward poses here and there. Given the situation, I think he did fine.
I really dig Hit's new pose for his new ability. He looks just as cool as I'd hoped he would without his.. kilt? Let's call it a kilt.

On a side note, I really wish this could go to being a weekly or bi-weekly manga. Waiting a whole month just to see a single episode's worth of storytelling makes me and possibly many others quiet impatient.

I understand the life of a mangaka is such a daunting task, but I feel it'd be much easier to shorten the amount of pages per chapter. It's a good way of limiting how much dialogue and panels is really needed. I think Toyotaro could benefit from writing less panels with less pages. He seems to focus too much on basic attacks and anticipation panels that seem unneeded at some points.

I sometimes feel it's harder for him as well due to him having to fasten the pace on most of the chapters he writes only to catch up with the anime and upcoming movie.

If I didn't know as much I do about how rough it is to be a mangaka, I'd be right there with you. It can be hard to wait so long for a single chapter to come out and then have to wait for another month immediately afterwards. From what I've read though, the workload of a weekly series is just as bad if not worse than a monthly series. The final product may be a more concise/condensed story, but it'll practically be the only thing the author will have time to do with their life as a result. Reading up on the work life of weekly shōnen manga authors like Eiichiro Oda, Masashi Kishimoto, Tite Kubo and even Akira Toriyama, they barely have any time for anything else in their day to day life and get very little sleep (sometimes as little as three to four hours). It's still rough for a monthly series because the extended page count makes up the difference, but it does give the author a little extra breathing room.

Even if switching to a weekly schedule would improve Toyotaro's pacing, and that's not a guarantee, I'd rather he have more time to think ahead and plan out his narrative. With how truncated certain parts of the manga can be, I feel like constraining him to sixteen of so pages a week might actually exacerbate the issue rather than help it. He'd have to illustrate all the fights while still trying to jam in all the explanations and dialogue in roughly a third of the pages he has now. He could stretch the content out over multiple chapters and it might trim the fat of some of his fights, but it could make the chapters even more dialogue heavy than they already are. Hard to say for sure, but I'm okay with where he is at the moment.

[ShaggyBlanco]

Eh, so from what I saw it isn't much different from the anime version, Jiren still just fights like he doesn't care about anything (with his "Your last hope didn't work lol" style), Hit just loses, then tries a new attack which fails and gets eliminated with the chapter only focusing on them
I didn't think Toyo would do miracles with the concept of this fight but I was expecting at least more for Hit instead of just revealing he has a Skirt (especially after seeing how different Frost was treated). Not a bad chapter, just kind of the same of what we've seen but abridged and with some minor differences, well at least Hit didn't get smacked like a fly for Jiren, the Time-Shift was cooler than the Time Cage imo but only because of his pose doing it since the effect is pretty much the same
Hopefully the dialogue makes it better

[dragon boss z]

Maybe he's been working on the next chapter alongside it as it'll be the first main fight in the arc.

To me the art was the worst with Jiren himself. On one of the scans he looked like el Hermano, lmao. His muscles looked weird in a few scans as well. The rest of the characters looked like how they usually do imo.

He was on a five days trip to germany.

That's not really an excuse. And like I said I don't think the art was bad, it was really just Jiren that looks wonky. He just seems to have trouble with Jiren.

[Rebel Instinct]

Oh my god, I just realized that Hit totally pulled a Dynamic Entry on Jiren!

[spoiler][/spoiler]
As if I didn't already love Hit enough as it is.

[jeffbr92]

You know I wouldn't mind it so much if it was Hit taking his entire outfit off cause they do shirtless stuff a lot in the series but just the bottom part?

It looks so empty. Also makes me think its only the bottom part because Toyotaro didn't want to draw the coat moving with Hit.

[Vegeta_Sama]

To me the art was the worst with Jiren himself. On one of the scans he looked like el Hermano, lmao. His muscles looked weird in a few scans as well. The rest of the characters looked like how they usually do imo.

He was on a five days trip to germany.

That's not really an excuse. And like I said I don't think the art was bad, it was really just Jiren that looks wonky. He just seems to have trouble with Jiren.

Well, if not beign able to work due to some external factors isn't an excuse, then I don't know what is. The dude litterally had no time, and unfortunately he doesn't have Hit's abilities. And I agree, the art didn't look that bad considering the time he had. 5 days lost are lot of time for an artist

[MyNiggaGoku]

Hit vs Jiren was awesome. Toyo didn't make Hit look like complete fodder and he gave him a cool new attack.

Also this showed some great character development for our beloved assassin. I mean, he is a 1000 year old man who kills for a living and he decides to abandon his much-trusted Time Skip because he realized its weakness, abandoning all of his pride in his former fighting style along the way.

This also helped me realize how much he respects Goku as a person and as a fighter.Their last battle truly acted as a life defining moment for Hit, since he fought a man who outsmarted his Time Skip (with a bit of help from the Galactic King but Hit apparently doesn't know that) and he felt that he needed a change, an improvement for the 1st time in his life(as far as we know). And this was shown in full display in this chapter, he changed, he improved. That's what I call true improvement (looking at you Toei )

On another note, this chapter's Goku vs Jiren doesn't seem to be the equivalent of the anime's 2 episode special fight. It really seems that was just a mini brawl between them just to help Goku realise how absurdly powerful Jiren is. I think their first big fight is about to come soon.

[dragon boss z]

He was on a five days trip to germany.

That's not really an excuse. And like I said I don't think the art was bad, it was really just Jiren that looks wonky. He just seems to have trouble with Jiren.

Well, if not beign able to work due to some external factors isn't an excuse, then I don't know what is. The dude litterally had no time, and unfortunately he doesn't have Hit's abilities. And I agree, the art didn't look that bad considering the time he had. 5 days lost are lot of time for an artist

Time lost because of a "planned" vacation isn't an excuse. Getting sick out of nowhere for 5 days would be. And this is a monthly manga without about 2x the pages of a normal chapter, so basically it would be the equivalent to a bi weakly regular manga, so he has 2x the time to make it already. Like I said, I don't have a problem with the art, but a guy going on vacation is absolutely not an excuse. That's like if your boss asked why you didn't do your work in an acceptable manner and you told him it was because you were on vacation so you rushed it. That doesn't fly. Obviously everyone is entitled to vacations, but if it is enough to hinder the work, then the release date should be moved back. Also that wouldn't necessarily be Toyotaro's fault. It could be the publishing company rushing him. But if you know when your deadline is, and if you plan your vacation ahead of time, it is the responsibility of the person and the company to try and not have a drop in quality.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I'm guessing the next part is goku using the spirit Bomb and unlocking UI omen. Maybe he unlocks omen against kefla, ir maybe there wont be an omen... who knows at this point. The order of events are switched up.

[Exline]

You know I wouldn't mind it so much if it was Hit taking his entire outfit off cause they do shirtless stuff a lot in the series but just the bottom part?

It looks so empty. Also makes me think its only the bottom part because Toyotaro didn't want to draw the coat moving with Hit.

I mean that's not neccesarily a bad thing. We got SSJ as an inksaver, I think the coat coming is great as well. Even in DB manga, Toriyama would have the decorations and statues broken during the fight so he wouldn't have to draw them all the time.

(Or maybe the kilt/skirt limits his movement and he needs fight with more flexibility..?)

I don’t know if he has assistants but looks like Toyo needs some good ones , just for that exhaustion reason and for the shake of a future weekly series

A couple good assistants can be a lifesaver for a mangaka - both figuratively and sometimes even literally. It's frightening how many creators have literally worked themselves sick trying to meet their unforgiving schedules. Even without any preexisting illnesses, the sheer workload can and has resulted in the deterioration of an author's health. It's sad, but it's the reality of the situation. That's why I'm never hard on a mangaka for taking breaks or going on hiatuses. They often need it just to keep themselves going.

I don't even see a problem with the art. It looks the same as usual if you ask me. The panel with Jiren uppercutting Hit was definitely something to remember.

I don't think it's particularly bad either. but there are definitely a few off-model shots and awkward poses here and there. Given the situation, I think he did fine.
I really dig Hit's new pose for his new ability. He looks just as cool as I'd hoped he would without his.. kilt? Let's call it a kilt.

On a side note, I really wish this could go to being a weekly or bi-weekly manga. Waiting a whole month just to see a single episode's worth of storytelling makes me and possibly many others quiet impatient.

I understand the life of a mangaka is such a daunting task, but I feel it'd be much easier to shorten the amount of pages per chapter. It's a good way of limiting how much dialogue and panels is really needed. I think Toyotaro could benefit from writing less panels with less pages. He seems to focus too much on basic attacks and anticipation panels that seem unneeded at some points.

I sometimes feel it's harder for him as well due to him having to fasten the pace on most of the chapters he writes only to catch up with the anime and upcoming movie.

If I didn't know as much I do about how rough it is to be a mangaka, I'd be right there with you. It can be hard to wait so long for a single chapter to come out and then have to wait for another month immediately afterwards. From what I've read though, the workload of a weekly series is just as bad if not worse than a monthly series. The final product may be a more concise/condensed story, but it'll practically be the only thing the author will have time to do with their life as a result. Reading up on the work life of weekly shōnen manga authors like Eiichiro Oda, Masashi Kishimoto, Tite Kubo and even Akira Toriyama, they barely have any time for anything else in their day to day life and get very little sleep (sometimes as little as three to four hours). It's still rough for a monthly series because the extended page count makes up the difference, but it does give the author a little extra breathing room.

Even if switching to a weekly schedule would improve Toyotaro's pacing, and that's not a guarantee, I'd rather he have more time to think ahead and plan out his narrative. With how truncated certain parts of the manga can be, I feel like constraining him to sixteen of so pages a week might actually exacerbate the issue rather than help it. He'd have to illustrate all the fights while still trying to jam in all the explanations and dialogue in roughly a third of the pages he has now. He could stretch the content out over multiple chapters and it might trim the fat of some of his fights, but it could make the chapters even more dialogue heavy than they already are. Hard to say for sure, but I'm okay with where he is at the moment.

Damn is that really the case? Do they not get the freedom to enjoy themselves once in a while? If this is all true, then I am truly sorry for all weekly mangakas out there.

Glad you called me out on this, I kinda regret wishing this upon Toyotaro. I think I'm giving Toriyama too much credit when it comes to his go-by-the-flow writing style.

I as well appreciate the narrative of certain series that release monthly, like AOT. But I feel those tend to have much more to show than this recent chapter and some chapters in the past. It's probably my distaste for having this chapter be solely focused on Hit and Goku vs. Jiren.

I actually been thinking about working on my own American Manga/Comic and was thinking it could be a bi-weekly series where each chapter consists of 15 pages. I'm realizing now that this decision may not be up to me depending if I end up working with a publisher or not. I'm also realizing how demanding this could be. Won't let it affect me too much though.

I'll be looking more into the life of comic book writers/artists as well as mangaka's.

[Vegeta_Sama]

That's not really an excuse. And like I said I don't think the art was bad, it was really just Jiren that looks wonky. He just seems to have trouble with Jiren.

Well, if not beign able to work due to some external factors isn't an excuse, then I don't know what is. The dude litterally had no time, and unfortunately he doesn't have Hit's abilities. And I agree, the art didn't look that bad considering the time he had. 5 days lost are lot of time for an artist

Time lost because of a "planned" vacation isn't an excuse. Getting sick out of nowhere for 5 days would be. And this is a monthly manga without about 2x the pages of a normal chapter, so basically it would be the equivalent to a bi weakly regular manga, so he has 2x the time to make it already. Like I said, I don't have a problem with the art, but a guy going on vacation is absolutely not an excuse. That's like if your boss asked why you didn't do your work in an acceptable manner and you told him it was because you were on vacation so you rushed it. That doesn't fly. Obviously everyone is entitled to vacations, but if it is enough to hinder the work, then the release date should be moved back. Also that wouldn't necessarily be Toyotaro's fault. It could be the publishing company rushing him. But if you know when your deadline is, and if you plan your vacation ahead of time, it is the responsibility of the person and the company to try and not have a drop in quality.

I don't really know if it was a vacation, or something that has to do with his work. If it's the former, then I see your point, but I just don't have it in me to critizise someone who does this kind of work: as an aspiring artist myself, I know how difficult it is to draw something, and draw it well when you're constantly under pressure. Maybe he made an error in judgement, thought he could get it done and go to his vacation (if it was a vacation, i don't know) but he didn't managed to do it in time. I kind of see his point of view as well, and I don't think it's a big deal, considering that he never delivered particularly bad art. I think it's normal to slip up every once in a while

[Exline]

Hit vs Jiren was awesome. Toyo didn't make Hit look like complete fodder and he gave him a cool new attack.

Also this showed some great character development for our beloved assassin. I mean, he is a 1000 year old man who kills for a living and he decides to abandon his much-trusted Time Skip because he realized its weakness, abandoning all of his pride in his former fighting style along the way.

This also helped me realize how much he respects Goku as a person and as a fighter.Their last battle truly acted as a life defining moment for Hit, since he fought a man who outsmarted his Time Skip (with a bit of help from the Galactic King but Hit apparently doesn't know that) and he felt that he needed a change, an improvement for the 1st time in his life(as far as we know). And this was shown in full display in this chapter, he changed, he improved. That's what I call true improvement (looking at you Toei )

On another note, this chapter's Goku vs Jiren doesn't seem to be the equivalent of the anime's 2 episode special fight. It really seems that was just a mini brawl between them just to help Goku realise how absurdly powerful Jiren is. I think their first big fight is about to come soon.

Hitting all the nails on the head man. Glad to hear Hit's getting the respect he deserves after all the ridiculous flack he kept getting about his performance in the U6 arc.

And I hope that we don't see Jiren for a while after this, I honestly want to shift the focus back to the other warriors. There are many more characters than just Jiren. Hopefully Goku surpresses his urge to fight Jiren to preserve his stamina.

I'm also hoping that Hit saving Goku leads to a potential team up with U6 and U7.

[namekiansaiyan]

Hit vs Jiren was awesome. Toyo didn't make Hit look like complete fodder and he gave him a cool new attack.

Also this showed some great character development for our beloved assassin. I mean, he is a 1000 year old man who kills for a living and he decides to abandon his much-trusted Time Skip because he realized its weakness, abandoning all of his pride in his former fighting style along the way.

This also helped me realize how much he respects Goku as a person and as a fighter.Their last battle truly acted as a life defining moment for Hit, since he fought a man who outsmarted his Time Skip (with a bit of help from the Galactic King but Hit apparently doesn't know that) and he felt that he needed a change, an improvement for the 1st time in his life(as far as we know). And this was shown in full display in this chapter, he changed, he improved. That's what I call true improvement (looking at you Toei )

On another note, this chapter's Goku vs Jiren doesn't seem to be the equivalent of the anime's 2 episode special fight. It really seems that was just a mini brawl between them just to help Goku realise how absurdly powerful Jiren is. I think their first big fight is about to come soon.

Hitting all the nails on the head man. Glad to hear Hit's getting the respect he deserves after all the ridiculous flack he kept getting about his performance in the U6 arc.

And I hope that we don't see Jiren for a while after this, I honestly want to shift the focus back to the other warriors. There are many more characters than just Jiren. Hopefully Goku surpresses his urge to fight Jiren to preserve his stamina.

I'm also hoping that Hit saving Goku leads to a potential team up with U6 and U7.

Hit got humilated and even when his new attack landed, Jiren was still messing around.

Hit's role in this arc was pointless and a complete afterthought. His role was to get destroyed by Jiren and nothing more.

Jiren is the highlight of this arc. He should be seen as much as Goku. Universe 2, 3, 4 and 10 shoild be rushed. Give a little time to Universe 6 Saiyans and Namekians as they are from Universe y who could be relevant in the future and then go straight to the Pride Troopers.

[OLKv3]

Hum, visually speaking this chapter is a step back, a digression to BoG/U6 Arc Toyotarõ. Far too many callbacks. There were only a few outstanding panels like Jiren final punch to Hit.

Need the translation to evaluate the writing. This might be the weakest chapter of this arc so far.

I also thought it was odd that he eliminated Hit. I thought he was trying to refrain from eliminating other opponents? I guess Hit pushed him to that extent. I'm dissapointed Hit did not attempt to use his "assassination" techniques against Jiren. I really would have liked to see a character like Hit lose all composure and grow desperate to protect not only himself but his universe as well. Even if it costs him his own life.

No, the whole "he's refraining from eliminating people" thing is fan headcanon for why everyone isn't eliminated right away from him fighting. He's going against his code to win the Dragon Balls and get his wish. He almost eliminated Goku after all

[The Patrolman]

I hate how Toyotaro draws Hit. Makes his forehead too big. He even did this with Jiren in this chapter

[prince212]

Damn is that really the case? Do they not get the freedom to enjoy themselves once in a while? If this is all true, then I am truly sorry for all weekly mangakas out there.

Yes , it’s true , it’s also true that most works of the Japanese population milk their life’s as hell . It’s part of the culture , they give all for the company. . It’s more extreme that Europe or U.S.
But ei , they seem to be happy with it and those 2 hours of free time everyday they enjoy and milked them too.
That’s coming from my personal experience in 3 different trips around Japan like 10 years ago

[The gr]

At this point he is trolling the entire fanbase this looks like a weak chapter top it off with weak art and throwing Hit out a little too soon,I just hope the translation make it better.

Also Thanks god Jiren isn't a chump here,I was afraid if they pull that again.

[Rebel Instinct]

Damn is that really the case? Do they not get the freedom to enjoy themselves once in a while? If this is all true, then I am truly sorry for all weekly mangakas out there.

Glad you called me out on this, I kinda regret wishing this upon Toyotaro. I think I'm giving Toriyama too much credit when it comes to his go-by-the-flow writing style.

I as well appreciate the narrative of certain series that release monthly, like AOT. But I feel those tend to have much more to show than this recent chapter and some chapters in the past. It's probably my distaste for having this chapter be solely focused on Hit and Goku vs. Jiren.

I actually been thinking about working on my own American Manga/Comic and was thinking it could be a bi-weekly series where each chapter consists of 15 pages. I'm realizing now that this decision may not be up to me depending if I end up working with a publisher or not. I'm also realizing how demanding this could be. Won't let it affect me too much though.

I'll be looking more into the life of comic book writers/artists as well as mangaka's.

No worries, you're far from the first person I've had this discussion with! I just like to make sure people are well informed on the subject. But yeah, saying that It's a tough job would be an understatement. To boot, most don't even make that much money off of their work unless they hit it big like Oda or Kishimoto. Here's a few links to some articles that talk about the life of a mangaka. Hopefully they're of interest to you.

https://www.thedailystar.net/the-rigour ... life-49952

https://soranews24.com/2015/10/09/one-p ... ly-insane/

https://honeysanime.com/the-insane-work ... a-artists/

As you can see, It's definitely no picnic. I hope none of this puts you off your ambitions of creating your own comic. I actually have very little knowledge about the western comic book industry, so it may be better over here. A lot of the strife Japanese artists go through is due in large part to the nature of Japanese work culture. Being an artist/author is a difficult job to be sure, but the cultural attitude towards work ethic in Japan puts that challenge under a magnifying glass. Without going into detail, there's a reason that suicide rates in Japan are so high...

Sorry if I made the idea sound daunting! Go for it if it's your passion! I wish you luck in getting into the industry if that's what you're aiming for. Definitely read up on the particulars of the job and make sure you're well informed. Hopefully, things pan out and the workload is better here than it is over there. If a professional position doesn't work out, you can always try working freelance or going the Patreon route. I just wanted to clarify the hardships of the popular mangaka. I'd love to have weekly Dragon ball too, but I want Toyotaro to stay in good health more.