ankokudaishogun wrote:Fusion Dance is not as strong As Potara but it's still greater than the sum of the parts. See Goten+Trunks=SS3 Gotenks
You know, I always did wonder just how much stronger Goten and Trunks were as Gotenks. Obviously, the 2 of them are equal in strength, and closing in on but not quite as strong as their dads or Gohan was during the reawakening of Majin Buu, but how much stronger Gotenks is is hard to pin down.
As a SS3, he's about equal with Super Buu, but that's about all we have to go on.
ankokudaishogun wrote:Fusion Dance is not as strong As Potara but it's still greater than the sum of the parts. See Goten+Trunks=SS3 Gotenks
You know, I always did wonder just how much stronger Goten and Trunks were as Gotenks. Obviously, the 2 of them are equal in strength, and closing in on but not quite as strong as their dads or Gohan was during the reawakening of Majin Buu, but how much stronger Gotenks is is hard to pin down.
As a SS3, he's about equal with Super Buu, but that's about all we have to go on.
Maybe we should go by the first iteration of Gotenks to gauge just how strong the dance can be, because the one that fought Super Buu was one that not only had faced Fat Buu before, also had undergone weeks of training in Poppo's Palace
RecolorSaiyan wrote:> Logic in fusions power in DBS
How dare people try to discuss the DBS series and the power scaling associated!!!
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Watch the fusion dance be retcone to be beyond the potara. It would make my day
Wouldn't exactly be a retcon since Old Kai just said that the potara was better than fusion dance, he didn't specify in what, but he mentions that it's done in a faster way, and in later pages of the manga he mentions the potara never ending unlike fusion dance, so those were definitely part of the reason, at most just those reasons, at least there were more, basicaly it's too vague to really tell.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am
My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.
So according to Geekdom, Whis rekts Broly. What I don't understand is, if Whis is stronger, why doesn't he just kill Broly himself instead of stalling for Goku and Vegeta to use fusion?
AvatarReiko wrote:So according to Geekdom, Whis rekts Broly. What I don't understand is, if Whis is stronger, why doesn't he just kill Broly himself instead of stalling for Goku and Vegeta to use fusion?
because he isnt supposed to resolve mortal affairs
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
To be fair, through numbers alone, Jiren seems to be much more ferocious than Broly even factoring in a hypothetical SSB Gogeta without even accounting for his full power. And that's STILL missing the fact that Jiren became EVEN STRONGER than this.
Kaioken kinda helped showcase just how much stronger Jiren was; it was by a WIDE margin.
I think you're missing his point.
We don't need specific numbers and multipliers to illustrate how characters compare to each other. Literally all they have to do is say that Broly is the strongest enemy they've ever fought, and bam, Jiren is instantly outclassed. Kaioken isn't necessary to confirm this in the slightest.
Well no, they'd have to get more specific than that because otherwise the line is invalidated by Infinite Zamasu existing.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Zamasu immortality made him unable to be beaten by anyone but Zeno. Hell Goku thought with a senzu, he could possibly take on universal zamasu, which would suggest his PL wasn’t too high
RecolorSaiyan wrote:Strongest =/= most unbeatable.
Zamasu immortality made him unable to be beaten by anyone but Zeno. Hell Goku thought with a senzu, he could possibly take on universal zamasu, which would suggest his PL wasn’t too high
yeah highest ki and being unbeatable are completely different. Similar to how being powerful and being a great fighter are different, you see that with Zeno having absurd power but has no clue how to fight
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
ankokudaishogun wrote:Fusion Dance is not as strong As Potara but it's still greater than the sum of the parts. See Goten+Trunks=SS3 Gotenks
It is much more than the sums of the parts according to Goku himself, but we have no notion of how much. After all, Gogeta SSB would be stronger than Goku SSB KK x20 and Vegeta SSBE?
Gotenks SSJ3 was stronger than Goku SSJ3, but the difference was not so great.
Anyway, for fanervice purposes, this makes no difference because they can simply make Gogeta much stronger or weaker if it's needed
RecolorSaiyan wrote:Strongest =/= most unbeatable.
Zamasu immortality made him unable to be beaten by anyone but Zeno. Hell Goku thought with a senzu, he could possibly take on universal zamasu, which would suggest his PL wasn’t too high
Not really. "Strength" doesn't merely relates to power, but to how you use it and to other factors not related to Ki. Dabra was considered a stronger enemy than Cell despite being as powerful as him because of his magic. So Infinite Zamasu would be the strongest because they literally can't defeat (Or even touch) him.
TheSaiyanGod wrote:It is much more than the sums of the parts according to Goku himself, but we have no notion of how much. After all, Gogeta SSB would be stronger than Goku SSB KK x20 and Vegeta SSBE?
Yes. And in base, i might add.
Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7 wrote:
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “I coulda used Fusion…”
Dende: “Fusion…! Merging together, right? That’s the specialty art of the people of Planet Metamor!”
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”
ankokudaishogun wrote:Fusion Dance is not as strong As Potara but it's still greater than the sum of the parts. See Goten+Trunks=SS3 Gotenks
It is much more than the sums of the parts according to Goku himself, but we have no notion of how much. After all, Gogeta SSB would be stronger than Goku SSB KK x20 and Vegeta SSBE?
Gotenks SSJ3 was stronger than Goku SSJ3, but the difference was not so great.
Anyway, for fanervice purposes, this makes no difference because they can simply make Gogeta much stronger or weaker if it's needed
Well, it's also worth keeping in mind that Goten and Trunks are far weaker than Goku, they're not even stronger than Piccolo in their SS forms since when Gotenks defused inside of Boo, the form Boo took was the Piccolo one, plus Gotenks SS3 is significantly stronger than Goku since he didn't even want to fight Super Boo and blatantly says Super Boo is stronger than him.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am
My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.
So baring the spoilers, would this imply Broly is below LB Jiren? Considering LB Jiren overpowered UI Goku, till Goku got that rage powerup due to Jiren trying to kill his friends.
I mean even going by the trailers, Broly seems to be taking damage from blue Goku n Vegeta, while Jiren would just rag doll them all day with little effort.
Still tho, we getting a new Broly movie, so that is awesome and Gogeta, yay. Never liked Vegetto, proly him constantly wasting time with Buu left a bad impression for me.
I think that it basically comes down to how strong Goku and Vegeta are in Toriyama's vision, where there's no Kaioken or mastered versions of Blue. While in the anime SSB is nowhere near a God of Destruction, it's entirely possible Toriyama values the form much higher and Goku/Vegeta aren't ants to Beerus.
RecolorSaiyan wrote:1. Goku and Vegeta made massive gains in base forms during the ToP
that's just true.
Also... what if God Ki causes a Saiyan to get power-ups while fighting without strictly needing lethal wounds?
Like, if you get defeated but will yourself back on your feet you get a power-up. A Zenkai of Mind instead of Body.
It would explain the continuous gains made by Black, Goku and Vegeta during the Future Trunks and ToP Sagas
