Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[BlueVegerot]

Similarly with 17. Ribrianne was matching him very well and the last few episodes have shown her matching base goku and getting overpowered by base vegeta. 17 beat up SSJ1 Goku and was able to block a SSB Kamehameha. I just rationalize this by saying that since episode 77 , Goku has only fought with his real power SSB power against Toppo, Freeza and Jiren

[TheSaiyanGod]

Well, I'll update my Ranking after all these episodes

1- Zen'oh/Future Zen'oh
2- Daishinkan
3- Whis/Vados
4- Vegetto/Ultra Instinct Goku/Jiren
5- Beerus/Champa
6- Merged Zamasu
7 - Goku SSB KK x20
8- Vegeta SSB/ Golden Freeza/ Hit /Toppo
9- Goku Black SSJ Rosé
10- Trunks SSJ Rage
11-Dyspo
12- Kale
13- Android 17
14- Ultimate Gohan/Caulifla
15- Zamasu
16- Kyabe
17-Piccolo
18- Frost

[SansrivaaL]

17 and Goku were just dicking around with Ribriane, I'm almost certain.
17 had the time to help Goku out and ignore Ribriane (he was screaming and looking mad because he was playin her, he even acted like a bad guy like some role play shit), Vegeta in SSJ was just creeped out by her, and Goku's just being Goku. Now that they're used to her fighting style they adapted and basically can handle her in base, if anything I'd advise her to just go for 18 or Piccolo, at least there she'll have a chance.

[SaiyanSoul]

Well, I'll update my Ranking after all these episodes

1- Zen'oh/Future Zen'oh
2- Daishinkan
3- Whis/Vados
4- Vegetto/Ultra Instinct Goku/Jiren
5- Beerus/Champa
6- Merged Zamasu
7 - Goku SSB KK x20
8- Vegeta SSB/ Golden Freeza/ Hit /Toppo
9- Goku Black SSJ Rosé
10- Trunks SSJ Rage
11-Dyspo
12- Kale
13- Android 17
14- Ultimate Gohan/Caulifla
15- Zamasu
16- Kyabe
17-Piccolo
18- Frost

I don't think Dyspo is that strong considering Goku was stomping him at SSG (Red). Dyspo is super fast which is why he is able to land hits on stronger fighters but in terms of strength I would probably put him slightly above SSJ2 Caulifa but below 17.

[SirTorra]

Well, I'll update my Ranking after all these episodes

1- Zen'oh/Future Zen'oh
2- Daishinkan
3- Whis/Vados
4- Vegetto/Ultra Instinct Goku/Jiren
5- Beerus/Champa
6- Merged Zamasu
7 - Goku SSB KK x20
8- Vegeta SSB/ Golden Freeza/ Hit /Toppo
9- Goku Black SSJ Rosé
10- Trunks SSJ Rage
11-Dyspo
12- Kale
13- Android 17
14- Ultimate Gohan/Caulifla
15- Zamasu
16- Kyabe
17-Piccolo
18- Frost

Where are the guards? I assume they are extremely powerful and could go toe to toe with goku and Vegeta.

[Bullza]

Would people agree that Hit has less power than Super Saiyan Blue Goku but because of his abilities he would be able to beat Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20 if the two had fought?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Would people agree that Hit has less power than Super Saiyan Blue Goku but because of his abilities he would be able to beat Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20 if the two had fought?

Probably not KaiokenX20.

Maybe regular Kaioken. Maybe. Though I definitely agree that in terms of pure slugfest power, Hit is inferior to SSB Goku/Vegeta, Golden Freeza, etc.

[Green]

Something interesting: U2's Kaioshin, Pell, is stated to possess power greater than U7's South Kaioshin in his Toei bio. Present Zamasu was stated to be second to none, thus Zamasu > Pell > South.

That'd mean he's stronger than Kid Buu (depending on where you place South Kaioshin)?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Something interesting: U2's Kaioshin, Pell, is stated to possess power greater than U7's South Kaioshin in his Toei bio. Present Zamasu was stated to be second to none, thus Zamasu > Pell > South.

That'd mean he's stronger than Kid Buu (depending on where you place South Kaioshin)?

At the very least, this should indicate that Gohan, Goku, and Vegeta as Super Saiyans are stronger than Pure Buu. We can at least be positive on that.

..............Right?

[Bullza]

Would people agree that Hit has less power than Super Saiyan Blue Goku but because of his abilities he would be able to beat Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20 if the two had fought?

Probably not KaiokenX20.

Maybe regular Kaioken. Maybe. Though I definitely agree that in terms of pure slugfest power, Hit is inferior to SSB Goku/Vegeta, Golden Freeza, etc.

You don't think Hit would have captured Goku in the Time Freeze? I suppose it depends whether Goku would have the power to break out of it or not would depend on who would win. Jiren had to struggle a bit to get out of it so I'm not sure.

[LowRyder2005]

Something interesting: U2's Kaioshin, Pell, is stated to possess power greater than U7's South Kaioshin in his Toei bio. Present Zamasu was stated to be second to none, thus Zamasu > Pell > South.

That'd mean he's stronger than Kid Buu (depending on where you place South Kaioshin)?

I'm interested. Where's the actual source? Right now there's nothing about the South Kaioshin.

http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/tv/dragon_s/ ... /no02.html

EDIT: 'k, found it. South Kaioshin is mentioned in a bio removed through updates, but I'm not sure it says he's stronger. Quite the contrary, in fact. https://web.archive.org/web/20170815224 ... /no02.html

"肉体の強力さをもとめ自らも鍛え上げている。南の界王神の上位版の風貌。パワーアップ！"
"Nikutai no kyōryoku-sa o motome mizukara mo kitaeagete iru. Minami no kaiōshin no jōi-ban no fūbō. Pawāappu!"

Google translate gives us:
"I am also training himself for the strength of the body. The appearance of the upper edition of the king of the south. Power up!"

Won't vouch, but it looks more like he says he's doing some strength training to try and get the appearance of the South Kaioshin (especially considering how totally random it sounds to mention the fact in the little bio when it's totally unaddressed in the show).
Anyway, no, you've basically answered your own question: even with that assumption it depends on where you'd put Kid Buu in the hierarchy in the first place. If it does say that - apparently not - it should clear the debate on whether Zamas was or wasn't the strongest Kaioshin seen in the series so far, still.

[Green]

I got it from the wikia (not so reliable source I know) and was pretty surprised considering it seems rather... random? Makes more sense that he's training to bulk up like South to no avail.

Assuming it is indeed true though, it's rather interesting. We know that Trunks is stronger than Zamasu, atleast in the manga, and he is on SS3 Goku's level. In the anime the latter schooled Present Zamasu with an inferior form, but I'd argue Mr Zero Mortals Plan was shocked by a mortal possessing such power and couldn't fight well bla bla.

[GodVegetto91]

Here's my take on things:

Goku and Vegeta actually have the least potential as far as physical strength goes, and so have to rely on OP techniques, such as "perfect ki control" which is the equivalent of what we call "God Ki" and Ultra Instinct in order to match Jiren who is naturally strong. (Insanely strong!)

Lowest potential: Goku and Vegeta

Much greater potential: Freeza and Gohan. Do these two even need explaining? Freeza trained for a mere 4 months to reach God Level, as opposed to Goku and Vegeta who trained for many many years, while Gohan trained, for what? LESS than a single day! To reach that level, what's more, since these two have such insane potential, they don't even need God ki to become so powerful! (God ki=perfect ki control).

MAXIMUM Potential: Jiren!
He's (presumably) someone without God ki, a mortal that hasn't been confirmed, or even implied for that matter, to possess Ultra Instinct.
Nor does he have any transformations! He seems to be always in his original Base form, not even Gohan and Freeza are that powerful in their natural states! They need transformations aswell like Goku and Vegeta (Ultimate Gohan and Golden Freeza in this case).


Jiren: No God Ki/Perfect ki control, no Ultra Instinct, no Transformations. Pure Natural!

Gohan and Freeza: No God ki/Perfect ki control, but DO need Transformations to reach SSJ Blue level.

Goku and Vegeta: need to rely on God ki/perfect ki control, Ultra Instinct to become able to match someone on Jiren's ridiculous level, and have always need Transformations to become this powerful.

If Goku and Vegeta never learned to control "their ki" to the utmost degree, they would never have attained the strength that SSJ Blue possesses. They don't have the potential to reach that powerlevel just by increasing or multiplying their powers through various old school means. Gohan and Freeza on the other hand, DO have the potential for that as proven.

When Goku will finally be able to match Jiren, he will need 2/3 things first, in order to become capable of that:
Transformation(s)/perfect ki control = God ki/Ultra Instinct.

Jiren: Doesn't need any of the above.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Well, I'll update my Ranking after all these episodes

1- Zen'oh/Future Zen'oh
2- Daishinkan
3- Whis/Vados
4- Vegetto/Ultra Instinct Goku/Jiren
5- Beerus/Champa
6- Merged Zamasu
7 - Goku SSB KK x20
8- Vegeta SSB/ Golden Freeza/ Hit /Toppo
9- Goku Black SSJ Rosé
10- Trunks SSJ Rage
11-Dyspo
12- Kale
13- Android 17
14- Ultimate Gohan/Caulifla
15- Zamasu
16- Kyabe
17-Piccolo
18- Frost

I don't think Dyspo is that strong considering Goku was stomping him at SSG (Red). Dyspo is super fast which is why he is able to land hits on stronger fighters but in terms of strength I would probably put him slightly above SSJ2 Caulifa but below 17.

I believe that Dyspo is on the same level as Goku SSG (we see how he can do damage to Goku in this state), but with his super speed, he can even take advantage in moments

In the images below, we can see that Dyspo managed to surprise and strike Goku twice and then push him away from the stones:

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Well, I'll update my Ranking after all these episodes

1- Zen'oh/Future Zen'oh
2- Daishinkan
3- Whis/Vados
4- Vegetto/Ultra Instinct Goku/Jiren
5- Beerus/Champa
6- Merged Zamasu
7 - Goku SSB KK x20
8- Vegeta SSB/ Golden Freeza/ Hit /Toppo
9- Goku Black SSJ Rosé
10- Trunks SSJ Rage
11-Dyspo
12- Kale
13- Android 17
14- Ultimate Gohan/Caulifla
15- Zamasu
16- Kyabe
17-Piccolo
18- Frost

Where are the guards? I assume they are extremely powerful and could go toe to toe with goku and Vegeta.

Even though they are probably very strong, as they have never had a fight in the series, so I left out (as well as the other Gods of Destruction)

[Marlowe89]

Would people agree that Hit has less power than Super Saiyan Blue Goku but because of his abilities he would be able to beat Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20 if the two had fought?

I'd agree with Hit having less physical power than Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Vegeta. How he'd fare in a fight against the Kaioken x20 version with his abilities is anyone's guess.

[ZombieVito]

I'm​ not sure if it was brought up or not but in the preview it looks like Frieza is man handling Base Cabba.

As that should be a stronger Base Cabba than at the Universe 6 saga who was as strong as Base Vegeta who had 3 years of training since the Resurrection F saga then it would be further evidence that Final Form Frieza was considerably above the Base Saiyans.

If that's how the scene actually plays out that is.

Which makes his fight with base Goku even more bizarre. Why even bother to target the gang if he had that much of a power advantage?

[Bullza]

I'm​ not sure if it was brought up or not but in the preview it looks like Frieza is man handling Base Cabba.

As that should be a stronger Base Cabba than at the Universe 6 saga who was as strong as Base Vegeta who had 3 years of training since the Resurrection F saga then it would be further evidence that Final Form Frieza was considerably above the Base Saiyans.

If that's how the scene actually plays out that is.

Which makes his fight with base Goku even more bizarre. Why even bother to target the gang if he had that much of a power advantage?

Maybe he's just a dick like that and wants to see Goku suffer. Frieza was considerably stronger than Goku on Namek and after he was nearly killed by the Spirit Bomb and came back the first person he attacks is Piccolo and then Krillin of all people.

It does all depend how the episode plays out. Like someone mentioned Cabba could have been badly injured beforehand.

I do hope it either confirms that Frieza is either a lot stronger than Base Saiyans or that Frost was actually a lot weaker than the Base Saiyans.

[dragon boss z]

I'm​ not sure if it was brought up or not but in the preview it looks like Frieza is man handling Base Cabba.

As that should be a stronger Base Cabba than at the Universe 6 saga who was as strong as Base Vegeta who had 3 years of training since the Resurrection F saga then it would be further evidence that Final Form Frieza was considerably above the Base Saiyans.

If that's how the scene actually plays out that is.

Which makes his fight with base Goku even more bizarre. Why even bother to target the gang if he had that much of a power advantage?

Or maybe Vegeta was just holding back on Cabba? And Frieza always starts off suppressed and now we know he was at least somewhat suppressed since we know he can still go buff.

[Liquir]

Lol, did anyone watch Screw Attack's Vegeta vs DC's General Zod ? They stated that Angry SSB Vegeta is barely a Galaxy Buster....

[dbgtFO]

Lol, did anyone watch Screw Attack's Vegeta vs DC's General Zod ? They stated that Angry SSB Vegeta is barely a Galaxy Buster....

Well his feats or lack there of certainly bear witness to that.