Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ekrolo2]

Episode 57 to be exact. Ironically, Dragon Ball Super's inconsistent power scaling has somehow worked in the advantage of supporting cast rather than against them like in GT.

I would say Ep 8 combined with Ep 39 fucks everything nice and hard with LOL Rageta forcing Beerus to use 10% of his power and Goku Blue KKX10 being inferior to Beerus well before 57

I think Beerus was lying about the 10% line. I mean, he was constantly lying about how much power he was using in the BOG.

That's not outside the realm of possibility, but even without the Vegeta line, just with KK Goku & Beerus with Blue are still worth less then a tenth of his power. The Rageta comment just makes it absurdly hilarious in an awful, Batman & Robin sort of way.

[Doctor.]

So with SSG coming back that completely fucks up both the two-base theory as well as the base = SSG theory. No in-universe explanation I guess, writers just switch around base Goku's power as they feel like it.

[ekrolo2]

So with SSG coming back that completely fucks up both the two-base theory as well as the base = SSG theory. No in-universe explanation I guess, writers just switch around base Goku's power as they feel like it.

I'm pretty sure the base = SSG one was killed back with U6. Unless people unironically though Base Cabba > everyone in Z.

[Doctor.]

So with SSG coming back that completely fucks up both the two-base theory as well as the base = SSG theory. No in-universe explanation I guess, writers just switch around base Goku's power as they feel like it.

I'm pretty sure the base = SSG one was killed back with U6. Unless people unironically though Base Cabba > everyone in Z.

They still do, so that's not surprising.

[ekrolo2]

So with SSG coming back that completely fucks up both the two-base theory as well as the base = SSG theory. No in-universe explanation I guess, writers just switch around base Goku's power as they feel like it.

I'm pretty sure the base = SSG one was killed back with U6. Unless people unironically though Base Cabba > everyone in Z.

They still do, so that's not surprising.

Look at the bright side, now we know who the crab people in disguise are.

[gofishus]

So with SSG coming back that completely fucks up both the two-base theory as well as the base = SSG theory. No in-universe explanation I guess, writers just switch around base Goku's power as they feel like it.

lets just pretend that copy vegeta arc never existed shall we...

[ZombieVito]

So has Super reached GT levels of "power scalling/inconsistency yet?

Next week.

[BlueBasilisk]

So has Super reached GT levels of "power scalling/inconsistency yet?

Super hasn't had one of the heroes burst into tears from being hit by an empty soda can or Goku being beaten up by the local wildlife everywhere he goes, so no.

[Bullza]

So with SSG coming back that completely fucks up both the two-base theory as well as the base = SSG theory. No in-universe explanation I guess, writers just switch around base Goku's power as they feel like it.

I'm not sure an In-Universe explanation is really needed. They were never as strong as Super Saiyan God to begin with which just means we misinterpreted what was going on is all.

When you go back and look through the Resurrection F saga again with the proper subs it's a little more clear. Combined with how it is in the manga too then the anime hasn't done anything wrong.

[Almighty Majin]

So has Super reached GT levels of "power scalling/inconsistency yet?

The GT levels of power scaling pretty much started ever since U6 tournament and definitely after Copy Vegeta.

So with SSG coming back that completely fucks up both the two-base theory as well as the base = SSG theory. No in-universe explanation I guess, writers just switch around base Goku's power as they feel like it.

I'm not sure an In-Universe explanation is really needed. They were never as strong as Super Saiyan God to begin with which just means we misinterpreted what was going on is all.

When you go back and look through the Resurrection F saga again with the proper subs it's a little more clear. Combined with how it is in the manga too then the anime hasn't done anything wrong.

Basically this, there was never a second base and they never had SSJG level bases either, just really strong bases that happen to be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks (inb4 Gohan gets mentioned since this is obviously a problem, it's clear that Toei added in extra scenes to show off Gohan's training, but then Toriyama wanted to make him relevant again in the current arc and kinda screwed things up there).

[Doctor.]

It's a problem because Kuririn and 18 are shown to be comparable to base Goku. If Goku's stronger than SS3 Gotenks in base, then so are they. And if Kuririn is, so are Tenshinhan and Roshi as well.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

I wonder where people got the idea that kaioken Goku is weaker than beerus. Toriyamas scale invalidates that and kaioken Goku overpowered merged zamasu whom was stated to be above beerus.

The 2 base theory never had merit but people would always derail threads treating it as fact. We always knew that Goku could use ssjg since blue is simply ssjg with ssj on top.

As far as ultimate Gohan is concerned, super revealed that his original power is over 100x stronger than ssj3 Gotenks. This only means that boos absorptions are multiplicative just like how perfect cell isn't just imperfect cell+17+18.

[ssbgoku]

So with SSG coming back that completely fucks up both the two-base theory as well as the base = SSG theory. No in-universe explanation I guess, writers just switch around base Goku's power as they feel like it.

Exactly and screw it, but after playing with us for so long I am going for new theory, or rather approach that Characters's feats and statements are valid as long as nothing later contradict it with new feats, so later's feats and consistency of power: Fresher/newer feats overwite fully contradicted old feats. Going by this logic:

1) Whole super strong base(rof,copy vegeta arc and Monaca beerus vs goku) are overwritten by future trunks arc and followed by it Tournament of power
2) Gohan in rof being super weak is overwitten with Piccolo training gohan to regain power he used against Super buu(Ultimate).
3) First Form Freeza is stronger then ssj rof gohan was contradicted as of later showings of gohan, or simply Freeza learned to be much less supressed between his first form and final form.
4) Everyone at the level of ssb has divine ki, but because it is not big deal they are not even bothering mentioning it.
5) Goku is close to suprass Beerus with Kaioken at least, maybe even without it along with Vegeta
6) If Hit is shown to struggle against Dyspo, who will get on equal footing with ssg goku, that meant he is nerfed.
7) Goku's use of kaioken x10 with ssb will be also most likely retconned(only number of kaioken), because it will be still used against Merged Zamasu. For it to make sense I see: Goku using only kaioken x2 ssb against hit, Goku using either kaioken x3 or x4 ssb against merged Zamasu.
8 ) Both Ssb Vegetto and Merged Zamasu will be stated to be in low tier of angel, when they will be brought back again or mentioned by characters.

Yeah this is clearly How they want it work, so they can change it or twist it in how many ways they can as long as it make sense with rest not contradicted in universe logic.

[Lord Frieza]

I wonder where people got the idea that kaioken Goku is weaker than beerus. Toriyamas scale invalidates that and kaioken Goku overpowered merged zamasu whom was stated to be above beerus.

They KNOW that because when Champa was going to kill his team for losing he said...




Showing that he was more then confident he could destroy Hit and Goku, who had just displayed his full power of SSBKK x10. Since its been shown that Beerus and Champa are practically equals in the anime with the only difference beings Champa haveing poor stamina due to his poor diet and laziness, Beerus is stronger then SSBKK.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Well hey, now that SSG is returning, we MIGHT get some more clues as to where Goku, Vegeta, etc. fall.

Obviously, SSG will be treated as Goku's next strongest transformation after SSB. But if the likes of a character like Freeza is treated as below it, yet also still super-strong.......... Well, we might just have our answers.

[Marlowe89]

I'm not sure an In-Universe explanation is really needed. They were never as strong as Super Saiyan God to begin with which just means we misinterpreted what was going on is all.

Kinda hard to misinterpret instances where Goku absorbs the power of Super Saiyan God against Beerus, moves so quickly against Final Form Frieza that nobody can see his movements, calls himself a "Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God" while describing Blue to be the Super Saiyan level of that, etc., and it's equally as jarring to imagine someone completely no-selling a character as powerful as SS3 Gotenks if they weren't meant to be on that general level.

I find it best (and most intuitive) to just conclude that the writers were attempting to stay faithful to the narrative established in the RoF film at the time. Obviously that's not the case anymore and two bases most likely never existed to begin with, but they weren't exactly adapting this arc from one of Toriyama's DBS scripts; they were doing it from the movie, and we already know from a multitude of official sources and materials that their base forms were meant to possess the power of Super Saiyan God back in 2015. There's no indication that that was drastically changed for the anime's RoF arc if we look at those episodes in isolation from the other arcs. If anything it was largely the same.

[MisteryOne]

I wonder where people got the idea that kaioken Goku is weaker than beerus. Toriyamas scale invalidates that and kaioken Goku overpowered merged zamasu whom was stated to be above beerus.

The 2 base theory never had merit but people would always derail threads treating it as fact. We always knew that Goku could use ssjg since blue is simply ssjg with ssj on top.

As far as ultimate Gohan is concerned, super revealed that his original power is over 100x stronger than ssj3 Gotenks. This only means that boos absorptions are multiplicative just like how perfect cell isn't just imperfect cell+17+18.

When was it stated that Merged Zamasu> Full power Beerus?

[Lord Frieza]

The entire thing is a mess. My theory has always been.....

SSG was invented for BoG, afterwards Toriyama seem to have intended to have Goku and SS boosted and drop all other forms. Since such an idea did not go over well with Toei, as it would cost them money on merchandise, SSB was created to meet them half-way. An alternate, god version of SS with a cool new aura to sell merch. This is also were Saiyan Beyond God first poped up thanks to Heroes, which indicated an increase in base form power.

But when we hit Super, there seem to have been a very big change or someone messed up. This started in the U6 arc with Goku going SS, a form that should have been replaced by SSB. Thus the whole thing feel apart from there with Goku getting back all his lesser froms, which were also said would be dropped, Saiyan Beyond God got the shaft but since non of this was clear the two-base theory was invented by a, understandably, very confused fan-base.

Black didn't help matters as he did not have SS froms, instead he just powered up to a more godly aura then then Rose. Which was the spirit of what was ment to happen to Goku post BoG.

Basically its been one big F@#k UP.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

I wonder where people got the idea that kaioken Goku is weaker than beerus. Toriyamas scale invalidates that and kaioken Goku overpowered merged zamasu whom was stated to be above beerus.

They KNOW that because when Champa was going to kill his team for losing he said...




Showing that he was more then confident he could destroy Hit and Goku, who had just displayed his full power of SSBKK x10. Since its been shown that Beerus and Champa are practically equals in the anime with the only difference beings Champa haveing poor stamina due to his poor diet and laziness, Beerus is stronger then SSBKK.

He isn't even talking about Goku. He's talking about cabba hence him just saying "Super Saiyan". He was going to fight his team because they lost, not Goku.

I wonder where people got the idea that kaioken Goku is weaker than beerus. Toriyamas scale invalidates that and kaioken Goku overpowered merged zamasu whom was stated to be above beerus.

The 2 base theory never had merit but people would always derail threads treating it as fact. We always knew that Goku could use ssjg since blue is simply ssjg with ssj on top.

As far as ultimate Gohan is concerned, super revealed that his original power is over 100x stronger than ssj3 Gotenks. This only means that boos absorptions are multiplicative just like how perfect cell isn't just imperfect cell+17+18.

When was it stated that Merged Zamasu> Full power Beerus?

He's stated to be above all the gods in the episode right after he appears.

[Lord Frieza]

I wonder where people got the idea that kaioken Goku is weaker than beerus. Toriyamas scale invalidates that and kaioken Goku overpowered merged zamasu whom was stated to be above beerus.

They KNOW that because when Champa was going to kill his team for losing he said...




Showing that he was more then confident he could destroy Hit and Goku, who had just displayed his full power of SSBKK x10. Since its been shown that Beerus and Champa are practically equals in the anime with the only difference beings Champa haveing poor stamina due to his poor diet and laziness, Beerus is stronger then SSBKK.

He isn't even talking about Goku. He's talking about cabba hence him just saying "Super Saiyan". He was going to fight his team because they lost, not Goku.

Sure and thats why Beerus said this...

https://youtu.be/XePpSpatEj4?t=73

Plus if SSBKK x10 was not enough to finish of Hit...what's good's it gonna do against Champa, and by extention Beerus?

The only character stated to bee even a threat to Beerus, who has NEVER USED HIS FULL POWER, was Vegito Blue in the manga. Comapred to that SSBKK is childs play.

I wonder where people got the idea that kaioken Goku is weaker than beerus. Toriyamas scale invalidates that and kaioken Goku overpowered merged zamasu whom was stated to be above beerus.

The 2 base theory never had merit but people would always derail threads treating it as fact. We always knew that Goku could use ssjg since blue is simply ssjg with ssj on top.

As far as ultimate Gohan is concerned, super revealed that his original power is over 100x stronger than ssj3 Gotenks. This only means that boos absorptions are multiplicative just like how perfect cell isn't just imperfect cell+17+18.

When was it stated that Merged Zamasu> Full power Beerus?

He's stated to be above all the gods in the episode right after he appears.[/quote]

And we should take that bu his word on that, when despite his bowsting he couldn't even beat 2 SSb's?

Next you'll be telling me Yamacha or Mr. Satan are the best becuase of all the crap they spout to?