Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

So how many characters are more durable than a universe at this point?

[HeroR]

So how many characters are more durable than a universe at this point?

Anyone from Battle of Gods Super Saiyan God Goku's level and up.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So how many characters are more durable than a universe at this point?

Anyone from Battle of Gods Super Saiyan God Goku's level and up.

Of course, there'll never be a chance to test that interpretation, since the series has constantly been moving to greater control of energy and how it's used despite the increasing "capability" of destruction.

[HeroR]

So how many characters are more durable than a universe at this point?

Anyone from Battle of Gods Super Saiyan God Goku's level and up.

Of course, there'll never be a chance to test that interpretation, since the series has constantly been moving to greater control of energy and how it's used despite the increasing "capability" of destruction.

My point is that Super Saiyan God Goku in Battle of Gods had the power to destroy an universe in a punch as stated by Whis, the Kais, and the narrator. Goku absorbed Super Saiyan God. Whether you believed it was into his base form or Super Saiyan, you can easily say that anyone who can challenge Super Saiyan Goku can destroy an universe since you would need an universe level of attack to even hurt Goku without a hex or a technique specifically created to hit above their weight class like the Tri-Beam or the Final Explosion.

[dragon boss z]

So how many characters are more durable than a universe at this point?

Anyone GoD level or above.

Anyone from Battle of Gods Super Saiyan God Goku's level and up.

Even if we take those statements at face value it was also stated they couldn't survive the universe being destroyed. Old Kai even said Beerus would die.
I don't consider anyone under GoD tier true universe level though.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So how many characters are more durable than a universe at this point?

Anyone GoD level or above.

Anyone from Battle of Gods Super Saiyan God Goku's level and up.

Even if we take those statements at face value it was also stated they couldn't survive the universe being destroyed. Old Kai even said Beerus would die.
I don't consider anyone under GoD tier true universe level though.

It seems to be very much a case of destructive capability exceeding actual survivability.

It also doesn't seem dependent on power level. When Pure Buu blew up the Earth, everyone died. When Namek exploded, Freeza (despite having a much lower power level, being very drained of energy, AND having been damaged far more than anyone really should) survived.

[Helios518]

It seems to be very much a case of destructive capability exceeding actual survivability.

It also doesn't seem dependent on power level. When Pure Buu blew up the Earth, everyone died. When Namek exploded, Freeza (despite having a much lower power level, being very drained of energy, AND having been damaged far more than anyone really should) survived.

I'm pretty sure everyone died because lack of oxygen not because they couldn't withstand the explosion.

[Bullza]

Well Kefla said she could wipe a Universe out with a single shot and Goku is enormously above her now and he fired a point blank Kamehameha right at Jiren and he was back on his feet in no time.

[PFM18]

I actually wrote a computer program to calculate the power levels of characters in DB super and I wanted to show you the results I got. I scaled each character off of each other by estimating the strength difference of each(For example I wrote the program saying that Golden Freeza from RoF is 10% stronger than Super Saiyan Blue/Goku and Vegeta) to prevent using absolutely outrageously large numbers I used a scale in which Goku's Super Saiyan God from Battle of Gods is a 1. The numbers kind of fall apart during the ToP(It is just hard to get them to work) but I thought I would still see what you guys think.

Super Saiyan God Goku: 1.00
Base Goku with God Ki: 0.02
Super Saiyan Goku(God ki): 1.10
Super Saiyan Vegeta(ROF): 1.54
Super Saiyan Goku(ROF):1.54
Super Saiyan Blue Goku(ROF): 77.0
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta(ROF): 77.0
Golden Frieza(ROF):84.70
Final Form Frieza(ROF): 0.02
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta(U6): 96.25
Super Saiyan Blue Goku(U6): 96.25
Legendary Assassin Hit: 481.25
Zamasu Arc
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta(pre-ROSAT): 288.75
Super Saiyan Blue Goku(Zamasu Arc): 288.75
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 433.12
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta(post-ROSAT): 721.88
Super Saiyan Blue Goku(post-Zamasu Arc): 577.5
Tournament of Power
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta(ToP): 938.44
Super Saiyan Blue Goku(ToP): 808.5
True Golden Frieza: 807.69
Final Form Frieza: 0.23
Ultimate Gohan the Second Coming: 48.51
Android 17(ToP): 323.40
Kefla the Super Warrior: 121.28
Super Saiyan Kefla: 6063.75
Super Saiyan 2 Kefla: 12127.50
Toppo the Captain of the Pride Troopers: 1051.05
God of Destruction Toppo: 22522.50
Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta: 28153.12
Ultra Instinct Omen Goku(Final time): 33783.75
Full Power Jiren The Gray: 42229.69
Ultra Instinct Goku: 71790.47
Jiren The Gray(Limits Broken): 64611.42
God of Destruction Beerus: 38006.72

Base Goku during Revivial of F: 0.0
Base Goku during the Universe 6 Tournament: 0.0
Base Goku during the start of Goku Black: 0.1
Base Goku during the Tournament of Power: 0.3

[Hugo Boss]

Well Kefla said she could wipe a Universe out with a single shot and Goku is enormously above her now and he fired a point blank Kamehameha right at Jiren and he was back on his feet in no time.

I think the only person capable of doing that for now is Zeno himself. Kefla was a little excited with her new power-up. But answering your first question, perhaps Zamasu in his last moments was as durable as an entire world.

[Helios518]

I actually wrote a computer program to calculate the power levels of characters in DB super and I wanted to show you the results I got. I scaled each character off of each other by estimating the strength difference of each(For example I wrote the program saying that Golden Freeza from RoF is 10% stronger than Super Saiyan Blue/Goku and Vegeta) to prevent using absolutely outrageously large numbers I used a scale in which Goku's Super Saiyan God from Battle of Gods is a 1. The numbers kind of fall apart during the ToP(It is just hard to get them to work) but I thought I would still see what you guys think.

Interesting, but where's SSJBKK Goku?

[PFM18]

I actually wrote a computer program to calculate the power levels of characters in DB super and I wanted to show you the results I got. I scaled each character off of each other by estimating the strength difference of each(For example I wrote the program saying that Golden Freeza from RoF is 10% stronger than Super Saiyan Blue/Goku and Vegeta) to prevent using absolutely outrageously large numbers I used a scale in which Goku's Super Saiyan God from Battle of Gods is a 1. The numbers kind of fall apart during the ToP(It is just hard to get them to work) but I thought I would still see what you guys think.

Interesting, but where's SSJBKK Goku?

I guess I didnt think to include him. Some people dont think it works like the standard kaioken(for example KKx20 only increases his power by say 5 times) when it is used in conjunction with SSB but I am one who just thinks that it is actually a 10x multiplier or 20x multipler etc etc so you could just multiply the value of Goku by whatever the Kaioken. For example, On this scale SSBKK20 would be about 16 thousand on this scale.

[dragon boss z]

Well Kefla said she could wipe a Universe out with a single shot and Goku is enormously above her now and he fired a point blank Kamehameha right at Jiren and he was back on his feet in no time.

She said she felt like she could, not that she could. It's like when someone says I feel like I can eat a horse, or I feel like I can take the world on, ect. Maybe she could destroy the universe, but I wouldn't call that statement proof.

[Bullza]

I'd find it strange they'd have her say something specific like that and the writer would actually intend it to not be true. That's like how people used to debate on whether or not Cell could really destroy the Solar System.

Aside from which it wouldn't be nearly that surprising as Beerus and Super Saiyan God Goku created a ball of energy that was gonna wipe out a universe itself.

[Helios518]

I'd find it strange they'd have her say something specific like that and the writer would actually intend it to not be true. That's like how people used to debate on whether or not Cell could really destroy the Solar System.

Aside from which it wouldn't be nearly that surprising as Beerus and Super Saiyan God Goku created a ball of energy that was gonna wipe out a universe itself.

Well to be fair, it's her wording that gives the statement less credibility. Cell said that he could do it but Kafla said she feels it. Much like Dragon boss said. Though if you want to believe that was the writer's intent, then that's something else.

[TheSaiyanGod]

After Vegeta uses the Final Explosion and survives, Jiren says that with '' those wounds, '' he would not win. So anyway, Vegeta was weaker when he faced Jiren

And? My point still stands. Vegeta at full power still could not come close to hurt Jiren, getting weaker just made everything worse to him. The deal is that: Jiren is vastly stronger than both #17 and Freeza to the point they are worms compared to him, being weaker due losing stamina should not be enough for them to cause him some trouble.

The question is not whether Vegeta's power is comparable or not to Jiren, but rather that he was weaker on EP 127 because of the fight against Toppo. And yes, that diminished his power. Therefore, Freeza and 17 may be able to face a weakened Jiren.

Anyway, I expected him to be more weak, because in the preview he seems to still be using a lot of power

[jeffbr92]

The question is not whether Vegeta's power is comparable or not to Jiren, but rather that he was weaker on EP 127 because of the fight against Toppo. And yes, that diminished his power. Therefore, Freeza and 17 may be able to face a weakened Jiren.

Anyway, I expected him to be more weak, because in the preview he seems to still be using a lot of power

You who brought Vegeta to the question first and I explained why there's no comparison. Jiren is the guy capable of curbstomp KKx20 SSJB Goku being suppresed, this power level is likely stronger than both Freeza and #17 and Full Power Jiren is several times stronger than that, no matter how weakened he got in-battle, he should still have more than enough power to deal with them.

I know Super is not consistent especially on power levels, so they probably will come with some bullshit to nerf Jiren, but this is not like Jiren was wrecked like Vegeta in the Saiyan arc to the point even Krillin was able to kill him.

[dragon boss z]

I'd find it strange they'd have her say something specific like that and the writer would actually intend it to not be true. That's like how people used to debate on whether or not Cell could really destroy the Solar System.

Aside from which it wouldn't be nearly that surprising as Beerus and Super Saiyan God Goku created a ball of energy that was gonna wipe out a universe itself.

Well to be fair, it's her wording that gives the statement less credibility. Cell said that he could do it but Kafla said she feels it. Much like Dragon boss said. Though if you want to believe that was the writer's intent, then that's something else.

Not to mention one line was written by Toriyama, and another an unkown Toei staff member. It's like bringing up the line where Frieza acted like planet busting was impressive.

[Bullza]

Could Goku use the kaioken with Super Saiyan God?

[brett wheeler]

Could Goku use the kaioken with Super Saiyan God?

considering ssb puts more strain on the body than god, and he could use it in blue, I say yes he just never felt the need to.