Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[apex_pretador]

So where do people think Gohan is in Base and SSJ? Personally I place his base around his SSJ2 Adult and SS on par with his Ultimate state, which would still be alright, considering he's not above SSG Goku in BoG, but is still vastly stronger than the rest of the cast apart from Goku, Vegeta and Buu, who would still be weaker by a small amount considering he doesn't train and plays with Mr Satan all day.

His base is at the very minimum as strong as if not stronger than perfect cell, and current SS gohan could very well be above his buu arc peak.

That doesn't make any sense. The Old Kai unlock was supposed to draw out all of his potential and more, he shouldn't be able to get any stronger than that by natural means. The only way I can see him surpassing that level is through God ki.

Nothing makes sense. Gohan has gotten older, and hence his "potential" obviously increased. Guru also unlocked his potential, and so did ROSAT training, but a lot was left to be unlocked for old kaioshin.

Gohan stated like twice that he wants to show goku his "current power level" and he also put up a good fight against (likely suppressed) SS goku who is already above mystic gohan in base.

[GodKaio-Ken]

His base is at the very minimum as strong as if not stronger than perfect cell, and current SS gohan could very well be above his buu arc peak.

That doesn't make any sense. The Old Kai unlock was supposed to draw out all of his potential and more, he shouldn't be able to get any stronger than that by natural means. The only way I can see him surpassing that level is through God ki.

Nothing makes sense. Gohan has gotten older, and hence his "potential" obviously increased. Guru also unlocked his potential, and so did ROSAT training, but a lot was left to be unlocked for old kaioshin.

Gohan stated like twice that he wants to show goku his "current power level" and he also put up a good fight against (likely suppressed) SS goku who is already above mystic gohan in base.

Exactly. Who would ever be like "Hey let me show you how weak in comparison I am to my former self!"

[ssbgoku]

His base is at the very minimum as strong as if not stronger than perfect cell, and current SS gohan could very well be above his buu arc peak.

That doesn't make any sense. The Old Kai unlock was supposed to draw out all of his potential and more, he shouldn't be able to get any stronger than that by natural means. The only way I can see him surpassing that level is through God ki.

Nothing makes sense. Gohan has gotten older, and hence his "potential" obviously increased. Guru also unlocked his potential, and so did ROSAT training, but a lot was left to be unlocked for old kaioshin.

Gohan stated like twice that he wants to show goku his "current power level" and he also put up a good fight against (likely suppressed) SS goku who is already above mystic gohan in base.

Everything looks good on paper and could work but there is one issue with that. For Ss gohan to be at least buu arc ultimate gohan cuurent base gohan would need tobe 3 times weaker then post rosat buu arc ss gotenks at the absolute worst as.

Buu arc Ultimate gohan is 800 times stronger then post rosat base gotenks and that depends if you have ultimate gohan 2 times ss3 gotenks or more.

Keep in mind buu arc supressed ss3 goku was around post rosat base gotenks unless goku powered up through buu arc somehow he was vastly infferior to ss gotenks.

Also for Enraged vegeta to suprass buu arc ultimate gohan vegeta would have to become 800(from ss3 goku) x 4(ss3=4xss2) so 3200 times stronger to equal even ultimate gohan from buu arc.

So not too much make sense unless silent retcon theory and in universe explanation of gohan and gotenks too being already weaker in bog then in buu arc and dropp8ng even worse towards rof.

Also In rof Base gohan (piccolo equal around) was below good buu which put his ss at the most 5 times weaker then ss gotenks buu arc. So Current base gohan has to be ss3 goku buu arc to even have chance getting close to peak ultimate power buu arc

[TheUltimateNinja]

Since this question was ignored earlier, I'll ask it again.

Is Goku really 10x stronger than he was at the U6 tournament?

[ekrolo2]

Since this question was ignored earlier, I'll ask it again.

Is Goku really 10x stronger than he was at the U6 tournament?

Probably more. Goku says Hit has greatly improved from the tournament but Goku's so strong that even this vastly stronger Hit's Time Skip won't work on him.

Whether this means Goku's just too powerful for it to effect him or he's gotten good enough at predicting it is up for debate but it seems far more likely Goku got a x10 boost (at least) right out of his ass in no time after the U6 tournament.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Since this question was ignored earlier, I'll ask it again.

Is Goku really 10x stronger than he was at the U6 tournament?

Probably more. Goku says Hit has greatly improved from the tournament but Goku's so strong that even this vastly stronger Hit's Time Skip won't work on him.

Whether this means Goku's just too powerful for it to effect him or he's gotten good enough at predicting it is up for debate but it seems far more likely Goku got a x10 boost (at least) right out of his ass in no time after the U6 tournament.

It's been at least a year, though.

[ekrolo2]

Since this question was ignored earlier, I'll ask it again.

Is Goku really 10x stronger than he was at the U6 tournament?

Probably more. Goku says Hit has greatly improved from the tournament but Goku's so strong that even this vastly stronger Hit's Time Skip won't work on him.

Whether this means Goku's just too powerful for it to effect him or he's gotten good enough at predicting it is up for debate but it seems far more likely Goku got a x10 boost (at least) right out of his ass in no time after the U6 tournament.

It's been at least a year, though.

And Goku & Vegeta trained for seven years like mad dogs and barely got stronger than SS2 Gohan was at the Cell Games, unless they've been training dozens of times harder, this is an absurdly big increase to happen with no discernable reason to it.

But then again, this is the show where Vegeta randomly goes from being stronger one episode then Goku overpowering Fusion Zamasu by himself with nothing backing him or without KK.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Probably more. Goku says Hit has greatly improved from the tournament but Goku's so strong that even this vastly stronger Hit's Time Skip won't work on him.

Whether this means Goku's just too powerful for it to effect him or he's gotten good enough at predicting it is up for debate but it seems far more likely Goku got a x10 boost (at least) right out of his ass in no time after the U6 tournament.

It's been at least a year, though.

And Goku & Vegeta trained for seven years like mad dogs and barely got stronger than SS2 Gohan was at the Cell Games, unless they've been training dozens of times harder, this is an absurdly big increase to happen with no discernable reason to it.

But then again, this is the show where Vegeta randomly goes from being stronger one episode then Goku overpowering Fusion Zamasu by himself with nothing backing him or without KK.

It's probably due to God ki raising their limits or something like that. I wonder how it scales now, though, the increases in the Black Arc must have been much larger than we thought. I guess it's something like this:
Tournament Goku: 1 Kaioken x10: 10
Copy Vegeta Arc Goku: 1.2
Future Trunks Arc Goku: 1.5
SSRose Black: 2
Goku (Rage boost): 2.5
Black (Scimitar): 3.5
SSRage Trunks: 3
Vegeta (Post RoSAT): 4.5
Black (Scythe): 5
Merged Zamasu: 7.5
Goku: 8
Goku (Hit rematch): 10

[ekrolo2]

It's probably due to God ki raising their limits or something like that. I wonder how it scales now, though, the increases in the Black Arc must have been much larger than we thought. I guess it's something like this:
Tournament Goku: 1 Kaioken x10: 10
Copy Vegeta Arc Goku: 1.2
Future Trunks Arc Goku: 1.5
SSRose Black: 2
Goku (Rage boost): 2.5
Black (Scimitar): 3.5
SSRage Trunks: 3
Vegeta (Post RoSAT): 4.5
Black (Scythe): 5
Merged Zamasu: 7.5
Goku: 8
Goku (Hit rematch): 10

Euch, that Goku boost right out of nowhere. He literally does nothing but practice the Mafuba in-between the second and last trips to the future, how the actual fuck does he go from worthless fodder to Black to being strong enough to smack Fusion Zamasu around overpower him?

[LowRyder2005]

Since this question was ignored earlier, I'll ask it again.

Is Goku really 10x stronger than he was at the U6 tournament?

I happen to have a hard time buying that, even though it is certainly not far-fetched given his feats against an unrestrained (or even stronger, but most likely simply unrestrained) Hit. I'm leaning towards the hypothesis that Goku simply honed his insticts after his experiences fighting against the foe - after all, it is perhaps the central theme of the entire mini-arc, and instead of keeping up with the new and improved Hit through overwhelming brute force like before, he was now able to get by with pure technique. Or, you know, standard slapdash TOEI writing.

As I said some days ago, I got the feeling that in the latest episodes and the next preview they seem to lean more and more towards the idea of SS Goku, SS Gohan and Mr. Buu being around the same tier. I don't know if it could still work with Goku being drastically stronger than however strong he was before. I'd conclude that - more or less - it depends on having a clear confirmation that Super Saiyan Gohan and Super Saiyan Goku are quite stronger than Mr. Buu.

[TheUltimateNinja]

It's probably due to God ki raising their limits or something like that. I wonder how it scales now, though, the increases in the Black Arc must have been much larger than we thought. I guess it's something like this:
Tournament Goku: 1 Kaioken x10: 10
Copy Vegeta Arc Goku: 1.2
Future Trunks Arc Goku: 1.5
SSRose Black: 2
Goku (Rage boost): 2.5
Black (Scimitar): 3.5
SSRage Trunks: 3
Vegeta (Post RoSAT): 4.5
Black (Scythe): 5
Merged Zamasu: 7.5
Goku: 8
Goku (Hit rematch): 10

Euch, that Goku boost right out of nowhere. He literally does nothing but practice the Mafuba in-between the second and last trips to the future, how the actual fuck does he go from worthless fodder to Black to being strong enough to smack Fusion Zamasu around overpower him?

Maybe in the anime Saiyans can still get Zenkais, but only by repeatedly doing the Mafuba.

[Beyond]

It's probably due to God ki raising their limits or something like that. I wonder how it scales now, though, the increases in the Black Arc must have been much larger than we thought. I guess it's something like this:
Tournament Goku: 1 Kaioken x10: 10
Copy Vegeta Arc Goku: 1.2
Future Trunks Arc Goku: 1.5
SSRose Black: 2
Goku (Rage boost): 2.5
Black (Scimitar): 3.5
SSRage Trunks: 3
Vegeta (Post RoSAT): 4.5
Black (Scythe): 5
Merged Zamasu: 7.5
Goku: 8
Goku (Hit rematch): 10

Euch, that Goku boost right out of nowhere. He literally does nothing but practice the Mafuba in-between the second and last trips to the future, how the actual fuck does he go from worthless fodder to Black to being strong enough to smack Fusion Zamasu around overpower him?

Maybe in the anime Saiyans can still get Zenkais, but only by repeatedly doing the Mafuba.

Frieza was right to kill most of them. Too hax.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Euch, that Goku boost right out of nowhere. He literally does nothing but practice the Mafuba in-between the second and last trips to the future, how the actual fuck does he go from worthless fodder to Black to being strong enough to smack Fusion Zamasu around overpower him?

Maybe in the anime Saiyans can still get Zenkais, but only by repeatedly doing the Mafuba.

Frieza was right to kill most of them. Too hax.

However, much like Vegeta, they were all fools who thought real training would make them stronger, not realizing what they had to do was spam Mafuba the whole time. Trunks became strong enough to beat Zamasu with just one attempt.

[ssbgoku]

Noone is trying to prove me wrong about Current Gohan, Rof Gohan, Piccolo and even Enraged ss2 vegeta power level, so I guess I can accept I am right, if noone have counter argument.

[LowRyder2005]

Well, what do you know, I totally forgot that the *10 increase would more or less indicate that current SSB Goku can fingerflick to oblivion SSR Black as well. Yeah, I definitely prefer my shakier "better instincts" interpretation in lieu of the other one.

[MisteryOne]

It implies SSJ3 Goku was holding back against Trunks since SSJ3 is much stronger than SSJ2, yet Trunks describes Black as only a little stronger.

Therefore: SSJ3 Goku > Black (Future) >= SSJ3 Goku (Vs Trunks) > SSJ2 Goku = Black (Present)

Didn't Goku said he was waiting for Black to use his full power? I don't see how he is weaker than SS3 Goku. Pretty sure he was just holding back, just like Goku.

He's weaker than SSJ3 Goku because after Trunks watches Black fight SSJ2 Goku he says he was only a little stronger in the future, if he was anywhere close to SSJ3 Goku he'd definitely be considered a lot stronger than SSJ2 Goku.

If I remember correctly when he said Black was only a little stronger a flashback of SS3 Goku appearef. Not to speak when he fought SS3 Goku Trunks even said himself that Black was «equal, no, a bit stronger» than Goku. And I realy dont see why Goku would keep asking Black to go full power if there wasn't much difference (and we know Black was surpresed anyway).

[GreatWyrmGold]

Hey, Goku was hurt by a bullet two episodes later! He must be as weak as Krillin!

That's exactly the implication, isn't it? Though at least he didn't get hurt as bad. He was tanking bullets as a kid before he even knew what ki was so there's no excuse for a Saiyan being hurt by bullets, his natural physiology alone is clearly enough to withstand them. This isn't even accounting for the fact that his body would have naturally grown stronger as he got older.

...I wasn't being serious. Being hurt by bullets is supposed to show that Krillin and Goku are both rusty, but it doesn't mean they're now weaker than they were as kids!

But then again, this is the show where Vegeta randomly goes from being stronger one episode then Goku overpowering Fusion Zamasu by himself with nothing backing him or without KK.

Power levels are, and have always been, bullshit. Which is a problem when so much of the conflict and plot are centered around them.

[ekrolo2]

Power levels are, and have always been, bullshit. Which is a problem when so much of the conflict and plot are centered around them.

How they grow and escalate is certainly BS but typically a good reason existed for when the pecking order got shuffled around. Like Cell getting knocked off the top spot because Gohan got a new SS level. If you tried applying Super logic to old stuff, Krillin would've gotten a rage boost at Cell then beat the shit out of him for a while until his power faded.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Power levels are, and have always been, bullshit. Which is a problem when so much of the conflict and plot are centered around them.

How they grow and escalate is certainly BS but typically a good reason existed for when the pecking order got shuffled around. Like Cell getting knocked off the top spot because Gohan got a new SS level. If you tried applying Super logic to old stuff, Krillin would've gotten a rage boost at Cell then beat the shit out of him for a while until his power faded.

This logic is invalid because Kuririn is not a Saiyan.

[ekrolo2]

Power levels are, and have always been, bullshit. Which is a problem when so much of the conflict and plot are centered around them.

How they grow and escalate is certainly BS but typically a good reason existed for when the pecking order got shuffled around. Like Cell getting knocked off the top spot because Gohan got a new SS level. If you tried applying Super logic to old stuff, Krillin would've gotten a rage boost at Cell then beat the shit out of him for a while until his power faded.

This logic is invalid because Kuririn is not a Saiyan.

Super logic does whatever it wants