Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[majinwarman]

Now that we've seen the remainder of U3 fight in this episode, we can now rank all the universes' fighters since we already know that Aniraza will be the strongest from U3.

Universe 2

1. Giant Ribrianne
2. Jimeze
3. Transformed Zirloin
4. Transformed Rabanra
5. Transformed Zarbuto
6. Ribrianne
7. Kakunsa
8. Rozie
9. Hermila
10. Vikal
11. Prum

Pretty much all of this team is around Base Goku level or lower.

Universe 3

1. Aniraza - should be above SSB level
2. Koicearota - SSB level
3. Maji Kayo- could be anywhere from SSJ level to SSG level.
4. Katopesla- could compete with SSJ Vegeta in his ultimate form
5. Biarra - could spar with 17 and 18 for quite a bit of time
6/7/8. Koitsukai/Panchia/Borareta- All equal to each other. Could give the base Saiyans a lot of trouble
9. Paparoni- Hasn't done much, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt over the last 3.
10. Narirama- at least he's better than the next two. Probably much weaker than the base Saiyans, but his opponent was Hit, so you could argue that he could be base level or maybe SSJ level if you're generous since Hit could fodderize anyone on that level.
11. The Preecho- Did nothing, but at least he made Roshi use that electric technique
12. Nigrisshi- Complete fodder and one of the biggest disappointments in this arc. Got casually one shot by Base Cabba.


Universe 4
1. Monna- Stronger than SSJ Cabba, but the writers are really inconsistent with how the U6 Super Saiyans compare to SSJ Goku and Vegeta, so idk how close she is to SSJ Goku/Vegeta.
2. Damon- Really hard to hit, but he is weaker than SSJ level since his attacks aren't that strong.
3. Nink- Could restrain base Goku
4. Gamisaras- His attacks could hurt 18 and the base Saiyans, but he got jobbed quickly by Piccolo. Probably weaker than the base Saiyans.
5. Majora- Could damage 18 and only lost to Krillin for the sake of a dumb gag.
6. Shosa- His attacks could knock back 18 quite a bit.
7. Ganos- Got overpowered by Roshi's full power Kamehameha, but he was stronger than Roshi and can grow in strength rapidly
8. Darkori- Her illusions seemed dangerous, but she got jobbed quickly by Roshi
9. Caway- 2nd biggest fodder in the ToP. Got her attacks stopped by two of base Roshi's fingers. A complete embarrassment for U4.
10. Shantza- Completely useless on his own as a fighter. His illusions can't actually damage opponents, and he got knocked off by a casual ki blast from Piccolo. Another complete embarrassment for U4.

Universe 6
1. Kefla- As much as I hate to admit it, SSJ2 Kefla is above SSBKKx20 and Hit, despite the fact that SSJ Kefla seemed to be equal to SSB Goku.
2. Hit- SSBKK level (which KK multiplier he's = to is debatable). He demolished Dyspo, who was pushing back SSG/SSB Goku. He also managed to land a clean hit on Jiren which knocked Jiren back by quite a bit, and Jiren had a lot of trouble moving while under Hit's Cage of Time.
3/4. Pirina/Saonel- Were competitive against Ultimate Gohan. Pirina had an even beam clash against Ultimate Gohan, and Saonel was able to survive relatively unharmed inside of that beam clash. They should be ~SSG level when they stabilized.
5. Kale- ~SSJ3 level in her controlled Berserk state since she could survive for a while against SSG Goku
6. Magetta- SSJ2+ level since SSJ Vegeta couldn't put a dent in him, and he blocked a Big Bang from SSJ Vegeta like it was nothing. His attacks can parry SSJ Vegeta's attacks, and the only thing he's lacking is speed.
7. Caulifla- Close to SSJ2 Goku in terms of power.
8. Cabba- Freeza had to go to Golden form to tank SSJ2 Cabba's Galick Gun, and in his base form, he was stated to be equal to base Vegeta.
9. Frost- Stronger than the base Saiyans but much weaker than SSJ Goku/Vegeta in his final form. Not sure how close he is to SSJ Goku/Vegeta when in 100% final form since we never saw anything from him in this state.
10. Botamo- Overconfident in his ability to redirect attacks to another dimension. He always just stands there and lets opponents hit him until they figure out how to beat him, but his other stats seem to be garbage anyways. Base Goku level at best.
11. Dr. Rota- fodder.

Universe 7
1. Goku- obvious
2. Vegeta- called the second fiddle
3. Freeza- seemingly equal to Blue Goku while in his Golden form
4/5. Android 17/Gohan- Neither one has proven to be superior to the other yet. They're somewhere between SSG and SSB level.
6. Piccolo- Could beat SSJ2 Gohan in a fight and got acknowledged by the U6 Namekians
7. Android 18- obviously stronger than the humans
8. Krillin- stated to be the strongest human
9. Tien- had terrible showings, but he should still be stronger than Roshi.
10. Roshi- has good techniques, but wouldn't be useful outside of a tournament since his power level is too low.

Universe 9
1. Bergamo- Equal to base Goku in his base form. His speed in his giant form is trash, but his Wolfgang Penetrator could push back a big Kamehameha from SSBKK Goku and forced Goku to put more power into it.
2. Lavender- His poison made him equal to SSJ Gohan
3. Basil- Give Buu some trouble, but still got defeated handily.
4. Chappil- base Goku couldn't damage him, but Goku was likely suppressed.
5. Hyssop- could block base Vegeta's attack and froze his hand.
6. Hop- gave base Vegeta some trouble
7/8/9/10. Oregano, Comfrey, Sorrel, and Roselle didn't really do anything.

Universe 10
1. Obuni- forced Gohan to use Ultimate
2. Rubalt- damaged Piccolo.
3. Napapa- competitive with Basil.
The rest of the team didn't show us anything and were all trash.

Universe 11
1. Jiren- obvious
2. Toppo- said to be the 2nd strongest
3. Dyspo- could push back SSG/SSB Goku
4. Kunshi- Goku decided to go SSB to charge through his strings, so he must be stronger than base Goku at least.
5. Kahseral- didn't do much, but got more hype than the rest.
The rest of the team is interchangable.

Pretty accurate to what this arc has shown so far. All we need now is to modify it when something new or big happens that cause it to change.

[majinwarman]

I guess the recent episode further insinuates that Ultimate Gohan's strength is somewhere comparable to SSJB Goku/Vegeta.

It always was, but then again, "goku was holding back duuhhhh" that might happen next episode.

I don't think that is going to be an issue here.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I guess the recent episode further insinuates that Ultimate Gohan's strength is somewhere comparable to SSJB Goku/Vegeta.

It always was, but then again, "goku was holding back duuhhhh" that might happen next episode.

I don't think that is going to be an issue here.

I hope

[majinwarman]

It always was, but then again, "goku was holding back duuhhhh" that might happen next episode.

I don't think that is going to be an issue here.

I hope

You should have more faith in the show. We can't always think negatively against them. They have surpisely improved my opinion of them with this great arc which I love.

[dragon boss z]

I guess the recent episode further insinuates that Ultimate Gohan's strength is somewhere comparable to SSJB Goku/Vegeta.

Gohan said he didn't want Goku and Vegeta wasting there stamina and they needed them for U11, implying Vegeta was above him. It seems SSG Goku will show up next episode so maybe we can compare their power then.

[majinwarman]

I guess the recent episode further insinuates that Ultimate Gohan's strength is somewhere comparable to SSJB Goku/Vegeta.

Gohan said he didn't want Goku and Vegeta wasting there stamina and they needed them for U11, implying Vegeta was above him. It seems SSG Goku will show up next episode so maybe we can compare their power then.

That is a good call to make. Wait before we can judge, that could work.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Considering Goku had to go Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken to defeat Ultimate Gohan in their sparring match in Episode 90, I think safe to say that Ultimate Gohan has always been SSJB tier since then. This episode just solidified it more than anything.

Full NEP for next episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OFQJ3Q-o7U

Gohan asked Goku to use all his power.

Before that, Goku did not show any intention of using the SSB, in contrast, in SSJ2 he could compete with Ultimate Gohan.

Taking the recruiting fights seriously is bullshit, this was clear in the last few episodes.
Many people thought that Kale was SSB level because of a fight in which Goku was clearly restraining himself. But on EP 114 we saw that she is less than a tired Goku SSG.

This EP has not proven anything. Gohan did not do any damage to the fusion of the robots and the fact that Goku / Vegeta used the Blue does not mean anything (in the next EP Goku is using an inferior form against Aniraza, still stronger than the fusion of the EP 120).

Yeah, Gohan asked Goku to go all out. He then proceeded to trade punches with him.

Gohan also absolutely did damage to Koichiarator; his Kamehameha broke the robot's hands! Koichiarator also tied Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta simultaneously in a beam struggle, indicating that it's meant to be stronger than either individually. Goku using God against Aniraza in 121 isn't necessarily evidence of Goku holding back here since Vegeta's using Super Saiyan. Seems like Aniraza beats them up so badly that they don't have the stamina for their higher forms.

And swapping punches means what? Kale crossed the Goku SSB's Kamehameha without any damage and grabbed him. yet she was much inferior (Goku was holding back).

Koichiarator enduring an energy dispute with Goku and Vegeta SSB does not indicate that he is at that level. The two Saiyans were only gaining time for Gohan to accumulate Ki (Gohan could spend, Goku and Vegeta were saving energy).

And Gohan himself indicated that Goku / Vegeta was stronger than him by wanting them to save energy to face U11 (while Gohan himself was spending)

[IndieBooToo]

How would you guys rank the following in terms of power: Current SSB Goku, Kaioken x2 SSB Goku, Kaioken x20 SSB Goku, Toppo, Hit, True Golden Freeza, SSJ Rose Goku Black, SSB Vegeta, Halo Fused Zamasu.

Kaioken x20 SSJB Goku > Merged Zamasu (Halo) > Kaioken SSJB Goku > SSJ Rosé Goku Black > Current SSJB Goku/Vegeta > Hit/Golden Freeza/Toppo

True Golden Freeza is equal to Current SSB Goku and Toppo at full power is stronger than a current SSB. Your power levels are all wrong especially with Hit.

[IndieBooToo]

Now that we've seen the remainder of U3 fight in this episode, we can now rank all the universes' fighters since we already know that Aniraza will be the strongest from U3.

Universe 2

1. Giant Ribrianne
2. Jimeze
3. Transformed Zirloin
4. Transformed Rabanra
5. Transformed Zarbuto
6. Ribrianne
7. Kakunsa
8. Rozie
9. Hermila
10. Vikal
11. Prum

Pretty much all of this team is around Base Goku level or lower.

Universe 3

1. Aniraza - should be above SSB level
2. Koicearota - SSB level
3. Maji Kayo- could be anywhere from SSJ level to SSG level.
4. Katopesla- could compete with SSJ Vegeta in his ultimate form
5. Biarra - could spar with 17 and 18 for quite a bit of time
6/7/8. Koitsukai/Panchia/Borareta- All equal to each other. Could give the base Saiyans a lot of trouble
9. Paparoni- Hasn't done much, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt over the last 3.
10. Narirama- at least he's better than the next two. Probably much weaker than the base Saiyans, but his opponent was Hit, so you could argue that he could be base level or maybe SSJ level if you're generous since Hit could fodderize anyone on that level.
11. The Preecho- Did nothing, but at least he made Roshi use that electric technique
12. Nigrisshi- Complete fodder and one of the biggest disappointments in this arc. Got casually one shot by Base Cabba.


Universe 4
1. Monna- Stronger than SSJ Cabba, but the writers are really inconsistent with how the U6 Super Saiyans compare to SSJ Goku and Vegeta, so idk how close she is to SSJ Goku/Vegeta.
2. Damon- Really hard to hit, but he is weaker than SSJ level since his attacks aren't that strong.
3. Nink- Could restrain base Goku
4. Gamisaras- His attacks could hurt 18 and the base Saiyans, but he got jobbed quickly by Piccolo. Probably weaker than the base Saiyans.
5. Majora- Could damage 18 and only lost to Krillin for the sake of a dumb gag.
6. Shosa- His attacks could knock back 18 quite a bit.
7. Ganos- Got overpowered by Roshi's full power Kamehameha, but he was stronger than Roshi and can grow in strength rapidly
8. Darkori- Her illusions seemed dangerous, but she got jobbed quickly by Roshi
9. Caway- 2nd biggest fodder in the ToP. Got her attacks stopped by two of base Roshi's fingers. A complete embarrassment for U4.
10. Shantza- Completely useless on his own as a fighter. His illusions can't actually damage opponents, and he got knocked off by a casual ki blast from Piccolo. Another complete embarrassment for U4.

Universe 6
1. Kefla- As much as I hate to admit it, SSJ2 Kefla is above SSBKKx20 and Hit, despite the fact that SSJ Kefla seemed to be equal to SSB Goku.
2. Hit- SSBKK level (which KK multiplier he's = to is debatable). He demolished Dyspo, who was pushing back SSG/SSB Goku. He also managed to land a clean hit on Jiren which knocked Jiren back by quite a bit, and Jiren had a lot of trouble moving while under Hit's Cage of Time.
3/4. Pirina/Saonel- Were competitive against Ultimate Gohan. Pirina had an even beam clash against Ultimate Gohan, and Saonel was able to survive relatively unharmed inside of that beam clash. They should be ~SSG level when they stabilized.
5. Kale- ~SSJ3 level in her controlled Berserk state since she could survive for a while against SSG Goku
6. Magetta- SSJ2+ level since SSJ Vegeta couldn't put a dent in him, and he blocked a Big Bang from SSJ Vegeta like it was nothing. His attacks can parry SSJ Vegeta's attacks, and the only thing he's lacking is speed.
7. Caulifla- Close to SSJ2 Goku in terms of power.
8. Cabba- Freeza had to go to Golden form to tank SSJ2 Cabba's Galick Gun, and in his base form, he was stated to be equal to base Vegeta.
9. Frost- Stronger than the base Saiyans but much weaker than SSJ Goku/Vegeta in his final form. Not sure how close he is to SSJ Goku/Vegeta when in 100% final form since we never saw anything from him in this state.
10. Botamo- Overconfident in his ability to redirect attacks to another dimension. He always just stands there and lets opponents hit him until they figure out how to beat him, but his other stats seem to be garbage anyways. Base Goku level at best.
11. Dr. Rota- fodder.

Universe 7
1. Goku- obvious
2. Vegeta- called the second fiddle
3. Freeza- seemingly equal to Blue Goku while in his Golden form
4/5. Android 17/Gohan- Neither one has proven to be superior to the other yet. They're somewhere between SSG and SSB level.
6. Piccolo- Could beat SSJ2 Gohan in a fight and got acknowledged by the U6 Namekians
7. Android 18- obviously stronger than the humans
8. Krillin- stated to be the strongest human
9. Tien- had terrible showings, but he should still be stronger than Roshi.
10. Roshi- has good techniques, but wouldn't be useful outside of a tournament since his power level is too low.

Universe 9
1. Bergamo- Equal to base Goku in his base form. His speed in his giant form is trash, but his Wolfgang Penetrator could push back a big Kamehameha from SSBKK Goku and forced Goku to put more power into it.
2. Lavender- His poison made him equal to SSJ Gohan
3. Basil- Give Buu some trouble, but still got defeated handily.
4. Chappil- base Goku couldn't damage him, but Goku was likely suppressed.
5. Hyssop- could block base Vegeta's attack and froze his hand.
6. Hop- gave base Vegeta some trouble
7/8/9/10. Oregano, Comfrey, Sorrel, and Roselle didn't really do anything.

Universe 10
1. Obuni- forced Gohan to use Ultimate
2. Rubalt- damaged Piccolo.
3. Napapa- competitive with Basil.
The rest of the team didn't show us anything and were all trash.

Universe 11
1. Jiren- obvious
2. Toppo- said to be the 2nd strongest
3. Dyspo- could push back SSG/SSB Goku
4. Kunshi- Goku decided to go SSB to charge through his strings, so he must be stronger than base Goku at least.
5. Kahseral- didn't do much, but got more hype than the rest.
The rest of the team is interchangable.

Do you know what a second fiddle means?


Also sources have Frieza being stronger than Vegeta as Goku's equal.

[dragon boss z]

How would you guys rank the following in terms of power: Current SSB Goku, Kaioken x2 SSB Goku, Kaioken x20 SSB Goku, Toppo, Hit, True Golden Freeza, SSJ Rose Goku Black, SSB Vegeta, Halo Fused Zamasu.

Kaioken x20 SSJB Goku > Merged Zamasu (Halo) > Kaioken SSJB Goku > SSJ Rosé Goku Black > Current SSJB Goku/Vegeta > Hit/Golden Freeza/Toppo

True Golden Freeza is equal to Current SSB Goku and Toppo at full power is stronger than a current SSB. Your power levels are all wrong especially with Hit.

This is never stated. Toppo was losing to SSB Goku in the anime and in the manga he said if he didn't knock Goku out of the ring right away he could of lost. And Hit was shown to actually be physically weaker than SSB Goku in the U6 arc. It was specifically stated he only was so difficult because his technique. Power wise he is right under SSB or at best equal.

[Noah]

True Golden Freeza is equal to Current SSB Goku and Toppo at full power is stronger than a current SSB. Your power levels are all wrong especially with Hit.

Sorry, but there's no such thing as "True" Golden Freeza, he sure improved but nothing indicates he's equal to the current level of Super Saiyan Blue.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Now that we've seen the remainder of U3 fight in this episode, we can now rank all the universes' fighters since we already know that Aniraza will be the strongest from U3.

Universe 2

1. Giant Ribrianne
2. Jimeze
3. Transformed Zirloin
4. Transformed Rabanra
5. Transformed Zarbuto
6. Ribrianne
7. Kakunsa
8. Rozie
9. Hermila
10. Vikal
11. Prum

Pretty much all of this team is around Base Goku level or lower.

Universe 3

1. Aniraza - should be above SSB level
2. Koicearota - SSB level
3. Maji Kayo- could be anywhere from SSJ level to SSG level.
4. Katopesla- could compete with SSJ Vegeta in his ultimate form
5. Biarra - could spar with 17 and 18 for quite a bit of time
6/7/8. Koitsukai/Panchia/Borareta- All equal to each other. Could give the base Saiyans a lot of trouble
9. Paparoni- Hasn't done much, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt over the last 3.
10. Narirama- at least he's better than the next two. Probably much weaker than the base Saiyans, but his opponent was Hit, so you could argue that he could be base level or maybe SSJ level if you're generous since Hit could fodderize anyone on that level.
11. The Preecho- Did nothing, but at least he made Roshi use that electric technique
12. Nigrisshi- Complete fodder and one of the biggest disappointments in this arc. Got casually one shot by Base Cabba.


Universe 4
1. Monna- Stronger than SSJ Cabba, but the writers are really inconsistent with how the U6 Super Saiyans compare to SSJ Goku and Vegeta, so idk how close she is to SSJ Goku/Vegeta.
2. Damon- Really hard to hit, but he is weaker than SSJ level since his attacks aren't that strong.
3. Nink- Could restrain base Goku
4. Gamisaras- His attacks could hurt 18 and the base Saiyans, but he got jobbed quickly by Piccolo. Probably weaker than the base Saiyans.
5. Majora- Could damage 18 and only lost to Krillin for the sake of a dumb gag.
6. Shosa- His attacks could knock back 18 quite a bit.
7. Ganos- Got overpowered by Roshi's full power Kamehameha, but he was stronger than Roshi and can grow in strength rapidly
8. Darkori- Her illusions seemed dangerous, but she got jobbed quickly by Roshi
9. Caway- 2nd biggest fodder in the ToP. Got her attacks stopped by two of base Roshi's fingers. A complete embarrassment for U4.
10. Shantza- Completely useless on his own as a fighter. His illusions can't actually damage opponents, and he got knocked off by a casual ki blast from Piccolo. Another complete embarrassment for U4.

Universe 6
1. Kefla- As much as I hate to admit it, SSJ2 Kefla is above SSBKKx20 and Hit, despite the fact that SSJ Kefla seemed to be equal to SSB Goku.
2. Hit- SSBKK level (which KK multiplier he's = to is debatable). He demolished Dyspo, who was pushing back SSG/SSB Goku. He also managed to land a clean hit on Jiren which knocked Jiren back by quite a bit, and Jiren had a lot of trouble moving while under Hit's Cage of Time.
3/4. Pirina/Saonel- Were competitive against Ultimate Gohan. Pirina had an even beam clash against Ultimate Gohan, and Saonel was able to survive relatively unharmed inside of that beam clash. They should be ~SSG level when they stabilized.
5. Kale- ~SSJ3 level in her controlled Berserk state since she could survive for a while against SSG Goku
6. Magetta- SSJ2+ level since SSJ Vegeta couldn't put a dent in him, and he blocked a Big Bang from SSJ Vegeta like it was nothing. His attacks can parry SSJ Vegeta's attacks, and the only thing he's lacking is speed.
7. Caulifla- Close to SSJ2 Goku in terms of power.
8. Cabba- Freeza had to go to Golden form to tank SSJ2 Cabba's Galick Gun, and in his base form, he was stated to be equal to base Vegeta.
9. Frost- Stronger than the base Saiyans but much weaker than SSJ Goku/Vegeta in his final form. Not sure how close he is to SSJ Goku/Vegeta when in 100% final form since we never saw anything from him in this state.
10. Botamo- Overconfident in his ability to redirect attacks to another dimension. He always just stands there and lets opponents hit him until they figure out how to beat him, but his other stats seem to be garbage anyways. Base Goku level at best.
11. Dr. Rota- fodder.

Universe 7
1. Goku- obvious
2. Vegeta- called the second fiddle
3. Freeza- seemingly equal to Blue Goku while in his Golden form
4/5. Android 17/Gohan- Neither one has proven to be superior to the other yet. They're somewhere between SSG and SSB level.
6. Piccolo- Could beat SSJ2 Gohan in a fight and got acknowledged by the U6 Namekians
7. Android 18- obviously stronger than the humans
8. Krillin- stated to be the strongest human
9. Tien- had terrible showings, but he should still be stronger than Roshi.
10. Roshi- has good techniques, but wouldn't be useful outside of a tournament since his power level is too low.

Universe 9
1. Bergamo- Equal to base Goku in his base form. His speed in his giant form is trash, but his Wolfgang Penetrator could push back a big Kamehameha from SSBKK Goku and forced Goku to put more power into it.
2. Lavender- His poison made him equal to SSJ Gohan
3. Basil- Give Buu some trouble, but still got defeated handily.
4. Chappil- base Goku couldn't damage him, but Goku was likely suppressed.
5. Hyssop- could block base Vegeta's attack and froze his hand.
6. Hop- gave base Vegeta some trouble
7/8/9/10. Oregano, Comfrey, Sorrel, and Roselle didn't really do anything.

Universe 10
1. Obuni- forced Gohan to use Ultimate
2. Rubalt- damaged Piccolo.
3. Napapa- competitive with Basil.
The rest of the team didn't show us anything and were all trash.

Universe 11
1. Jiren- obvious
2. Toppo- said to be the 2nd strongest
3. Dyspo- could push back SSG/SSB Goku
4. Kunshi- Goku decided to go SSB to charge through his strings, so he must be stronger than base Goku at least.
5. Kahseral- didn't do much, but got more hype than the rest.
The rest of the team is interchangable.

Do you know what a second fiddle means?


Also sources have Frieza being stronger than Vegeta as Goku's equal.

It means 2nd strongest, and some obscure magazine making some comment which implies that Freeza may be 2nd strongest isn't as valid as comments in the anime which directly state that Vegeta's the 2nd strongest.

[dragon boss z]

True Golden Freeza is equal to Current SSB Goku and Toppo at full power is stronger than a current SSB. Your power levels are all wrong especially with Hit.

Sorry, but there's no such thing as "True" Golden Freeza, he sure improved but nothing indicates he's equal to the current level of Super Saiyan Blue.

In episode 95 SSB Goku and Golden Frieza double KOd each other and Beerus confirmed they were equal.

[SuperDragoon]

Gohan asked Goku to use all his power.

Before that, Goku did not show any intention of using the SSB, in contrast, in SSJ2 he could compete with Ultimate Gohan.

Taking the recruiting fights seriously is bullshit, this was clear in the last few episodes.
Many people thought that Kale was SSB level because of a fight in which Goku was clearly restraining himself. But on EP 114 we saw that she is less than a tired Goku SSG.

This EP has not proven anything. Gohan did not do any damage to the fusion of the robots and the fact that Goku / Vegeta used the Blue does not mean anything (in the next EP Goku is using an inferior form against Aniraza, still stronger than the fusion of the EP 120).

Yeah, Gohan asked Goku to go all out. He then proceeded to trade punches with him.

Gohan also absolutely did damage to Koichiarator; his Kamehameha broke the robot's hands! Koichiarator also tied Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta simultaneously in a beam struggle, indicating that it's meant to be stronger than either individually. Goku using God against Aniraza in 121 isn't necessarily evidence of Goku holding back here since Vegeta's using Super Saiyan. Seems like Aniraza beats them up so badly that they don't have the stamina for their higher forms.

And swapping punches means what? Kale crossed the Goku SSB's Kamehameha without any damage and grabbed him. yet she was much inferior (Goku was holding back).

Koichiarator enduring an energy dispute with Goku and Vegeta SSB does not indicate that he is at that level. The two Saiyans were only gaining time for Gohan to accumulate Ki (Gohan could spend, Goku and Vegeta were saving energy).

And Gohan himself indicated that Goku / Vegeta was stronger than him by wanting them to save energy to face U11 (while Gohan himself was spending)

Except we know for a fact that Goku was suppressed against Kale. Nothing of the sort for Gohan and the narrator flat out saying that Goku and Gohan were near equals solidifies it .

Thats flat out denial. Koichiarator cancelled out a kamehaneha AND Galick Gun from Blue Goku and Vegeta. How that makes the robots much weaker than the Saiyans I have no idea.

No shit Gohan is weaker than them. The argument is that Ultimate Gohan is near SSB Goku and Vegeta in strength and this episode backs that up.

[SuperDragoon]

A magazine flat put stated that SSB Goku and Golden Freeza were tied for strongest U7 member btw.

[JazzMazz]

True Golden Freeza is equal to Current SSB Goku and Toppo at full power is stronger than a current SSB. Your power levels are all wrong especially with Hit.

Sorry, but there's no such thing as "True" Golden Freeza, he sure improved but nothing indicates he's equal to the current level of Super Saiyan Blue.

Um, there is though.

Beerus literally said, "So his evenly matched with Goku", when he was in Blue in episode 95. Also the fact he drawed with Goku as Blue in a sparring match. If that doesn't prove his current Blue level, I don't know what will.

6. Magetta- SSJ2+ level since SSJ Vegeta couldn't put a dent in him, and he blocked a Big Bang from SSJ Vegeta like it was nothing. His attacks can parry SSJ Vegeta's attacks, and the only thing he's lacking is speed.

1. Bergamo- Equal to base Goku in his base form. His speed in his giant form is trash, but his Wolfgang Penetrator could push back a big Kamehameha from SSBKK Goku and forced Goku to put more power into it.

I wouldn't say his Super Saiyan 2 tier in terms of pure power because he was losing to Super Saiyan Vegeta when they clashed, and his durability is demonstrated to be a unique trait that isn't directly tied into his power. I would say his Super Saiyan tier though, and definitely a notch above someone like Frost for example.

In episode 98, I think they make it pretty clear that though Bergamo can go toe to toe with base Goku for a time, his very clearly outmatched and gets tossed aside handily. The OP animation, which was used in episode 98, I think pretty clearly demonstrates the difference between the two.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[ShinTenshin]

For Goku and Vegeta Blue, it was just some random beam, they clearly used just a little bit of power.
Nothing compared to the final kaméhaméha realised against the wolf team.
The goal was to let the robot without defense, to have a counter attack with a charged beam.
In this situation with an opponent unable to attack and defend, several attacks could be enough like Makankosappo, Shin Kikoho, Kienzan etc...

However, i still think Gohan strength is between SS3 Goku and SSGOD Goku.
We need to wait for the Manga version to know exactly (cause Toyotaro follow Toriyama power level).
For the tier list, Roshi is now stronger than Krilin, cause Krilin need a trick to beat a fodder (majora) when Roshi beat alone a stronger opponent.
Tien is the strongest of the 3 just because Hermila was about to beat Gohan and Piccolo with ease and every shot is dangerous, similar to Makankosappo, pushing Piccolo to the door of hell is great.
The way Ten's 4 body resist to the shot is a mistery.
And seems now C18 is really stronger than Piccolo.

[Issei189]

Kaioken x20 SSJB Goku > Merged Zamasu (Halo) > Kaioken SSJB Goku > SSJ Rosé Goku Black > Current SSJB Goku/Vegeta > Hit/Golden Freeza/Toppo

True Golden Freeza is equal to Current SSB Goku and Toppo at full power is stronger than a current SSB. Your power levels are all wrong especially with Hit.

This is never stated. Toppo was losing to SSB Goku in the anime and in the manga he said if he didn't knock Goku out of the ring right away he could of lost. And Hit was shown to actually be physically weaker than SSB Goku in the U6 arc. It was specifically stated he only was so difficult because his technique. Power wise he is right under SSB or at best equal.

Toppo in the Anime was holding back against SSB Goku though. He started to power up after that Kamehameha and Goku in response turned on KK, so I'd say Toppo ( Full power) = SSB Goku

https://i.gyazo.com/511e8042a9bf177b2c0 ... 780825.gif

[Bullza]

So....I still wouldn't say for definite that Ultimate Gohan was Blue level but it is looking even more like he is.

I know people don't like to hear it but Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta must have held back seeing as their combined blasts were inferior to Ultimate Gohan's.

Based on the Ultimate Gohan's Kamehameha, it would seem like the merged robot is about on the same level, perhaps a tad above Pirina and Saonel.

They did say it was something like 1,200% stronger. I suppose when compared to the individual robots?

Android 17 fails to impress again.

Aniraza looks like it's gonna be hugely powerful, could be Kefla level?

[JazzMazz]

True Golden Freeza is equal to Current SSB Goku and Toppo at full power is stronger than a current SSB. Your power levels are all wrong especially with Hit.

This is never stated. Toppo was losing to SSB Goku in the anime and in the manga he said if he didn't knock Goku out of the ring right away he could of lost. And Hit was shown to actually be physically weaker than SSB Goku in the U6 arc. It was specifically stated he only was so difficult because his technique. Power wise he is right under SSB or at best equal.

Toppo in the Anime was holding back against SSB Goku though. He started to power up after that Kamehameha and Goku in response turned on KK, so I'd say Toppo ( Full power) = SSB Goku

https://i.gyazo.com/511e8042a9bf177b2c0 ... 780825.gif

Neither Toppo nor Goku got the opportunity to go all out in their battle in episode 82, and judging by how the Grand Priest split up the match because one of them could end up being killed, I think its more than safe to assume that Toppo is more powerful than Goku as SSB, though I think it is a bit more up in the air if he would be truly able to defeat SSB KK Goku.