Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

This is all based on the assumption that Jiren is completely fine after his fight with Goku, right?

Again: Jiren is the guy capable of beating the shit out KKx20 SSJB Goku (who is likely stronger than Golden Freeza and Android #17) being suppressed. It doesn't matter how injured he was, he's still a fucking monster compared to them.

He could just be so injured that he’s only Blue level.

For reference, Golden Freeza in Resurrection 'F' went from bodying Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku at full power to having his blast deflected by base form Vegeta after he drained his stamina. In Z, Goku got his ass kicked by the Cell Jr because he was tired despite being almost even with a suppressed Cell.

[Pannaliciour]

I also find it exaggerated to say that Goku is invincible in this form, but I found that this ability to deflect would be an advantage in the fight, but it looks like it's just a power up, someone with brute strength is able to handle it

The problem isn’t brute strengh, the problem is that jiren isn’t all about brute strength, he has as much speed as he packs a punch. So there’s that, and he is beyond hakaishin level, theres that too.

When I say brute force, I mean power (which involves speed, responsiveness, and others).

That is, only '' power '' is able to rival the ability to dodge everything without thinking (something that was not even explored in this EP). And that gives the feeling of being just another power up.

Did Jiren hit Goku when Goku MUI went savage mode?

[Mac]

For reference, Golden Freeza in Resurrection 'F' went from bodying Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku at full power to having his blast deflected by base form Vegeta after he drained his stamina. In Z, Goku got his ass kicked by the Cell Jr because he was tired despite being almost even with a suppressed Cell.

We can use Vegetas original fight with Goku too, after having his tail cut off, he was weakened and tired enough for Yajirobe to be able to hurt him.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

It looks as though Jiren is being pressure, if ever so slightly, by 17 and Freeza.

It seems as though his fight with Ultra Instinct Goku drained him, PLUS he's fighting True Golden Freeza and 17 after both have had time to sleep off their concussions. Their tag-teaming looks as though it'll be the only thing able to keep Jiren off-guard, with Freeza being the muscle and 17 being the persistent canine companion.

[HeroR]

It looks as though Jiren is being pressure, if ever so slightly, by 17 and Freeza.

It seems as though his fight with Ultra Instinct Goku drained him, PLUS he's fighting True Golden Freeza and 17 after both have had time to sleep off their concussions. Their tag-teaming looks as though it'll be the only thing able to keep Jiren off-guard, with Freeza being the muscle and 17 being the persistent canine companion.

17 doesn't need to rest thanks to his endless energy so he's always at max. Freeza is more tricky since he's golden now, but he won't maintain throughout the battle going by the NEP.

[jeffbr92]

Vegetas original fight with Goku too, after having his tail cut off, he was weakened and tired enough for Yajirobe to be able to hurt him.

Also remember this is the series where we had Vegeta using SSJB Evolution after using an almost suicide technique that depleted his stamina. Being consistent with this, Jiren should still be able to drawn his full power and stomp his foes easily.

[HeroR]

Vegetas original fight with Goku too, after having his tail cut off, he was weakened and tired enough for Yajirobe to be able to hurt him.

Also remember this is the series were he had Vegeta using SSJB Evolution after using an almost suicide technique that depleted his stamina. Being consistent with this, Jiren should still be able to drawn his full power and stomp his foes easily.

But Vegeta wasn't at full power.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Vegetas original fight with Goku too, after having his tail cut off, he was weakened and tired enough for Yajirobe to be able to hurt him.

Also remember this is the series were he had Vegeta using SSJB Evolution after using an almost suicide technique that depleted his stamina. Being consistent with this, Jiren should still be able to drawn his full power and stomp his foes easily.

But Vegeta wasn't at full power.

And after this fight, Vegeta couldn't even turn Super Saiyan.

[jeffbr92]

But Vegeta wasn't at full power.

How he wasn't at full power using the "Final Explosion" on Toppo?

And after this fight, Vegeta couldn't even turn Super Saiyan.

Really?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

But Vegeta wasn't at full power.

How he wasn't at full power using the "Final Explosion" on Toppo?

And after this fight, Vegeta couldn't even turn Super Saiyan.

Really?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I was talking about after the fight with Jiren, where Vegeta was stuck in base form.

[jeffbr92]

I was talking about after the fight with Jiren, where Vegeta was stuck in base form.

And I was referring to Vegeta defeating Toppo with a "almost suicidal" technique, later be implied to have lost stamina and then in the next episode use his most powerful form against Jiren.

[Bullza]

It did come up short since his power ran out before he could finished the job.

But not in the sense of what people were assuming, that his power would be inferior to Jiren's. It isn't.

[HeroR]

It did come up short since his power ran out before he could finished the job.

But not in the sense of what people were assuming, that his power would be inferior to Jiren's. It isn't.

It was purposely written that way.

[Issei189]

Just wait until the next episode is out, Guys, They will probably make a comment about Jiren being out of stamina or worn out.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I was talking about after the fight with Jiren, where Vegeta was stuck in base form.

And I was referring to Vegeta defeating Toppo with a "almost suicidal" technique, later be implied to have lost stamina and then in the next episode use his most powerful form against Jiren.

After Vegeta uses the Final Explosion and survives, Jiren says that with '' those wounds, '' he would not win.

So anyway, Vegeta was weaker when he faced Jiren

[Bullza]

Just to go off track a little bit.

If Android 17 has strength that rivals Super Saiyan Blue, then considering the sheer rate of improvement that he had...then wouldn't he have been the strongest on Earth during the Buu saga?

Had he shown up wouldn't he have effortlessly have man handled Buu? Maybe even put up a better fight against Beerus than Super Saiyan God Goku did?

[GodVegetto91]

This episode has REDEEMED Super. Despite MUI Goku getting hit by Jiren several times, i’m satisfied.

[Brettjr25]

Just to go off track a little bit.

If Android 17 has strength that rivals Super Saiyan Blue, then considering the sheer rate of improvement that he had...then wouldn't he have been the strongest on Earth during the Buu saga?

Had he shown up wouldn't he have effortlessly have man handled Buu? Maybe even put up a better fight against Beerus than Super Saiyan God Goku did?

There is no answer to that. You're assuming he had a steady growth to that level when it could've just been exponential one. Hell, look at the current fighters in the tournament. Freeza is beyond ssb and he would be toast in the buu arc. Goku is currently like 50x ssb and we know how he performed in the buu arc. The same goes for Vegeta with his ssb2 form.

[dragon boss z]

Just to go off track a little bit.

If Android 17 has strength that rivals Super Saiyan Blue, then considering the sheer rate of improvement that he had...then wouldn't he have been the strongest on Earth during the Buu saga?

Had he shown up wouldn't he have effortlessly have man handled Buu? Maybe even put up a better fight against Beerus than Super Saiyan God Goku did?

Imo story wise I think it would have to go like this

Buu saga: ssj2 tier
BoG saga: ssj3 tier
RoF saga: ssj Vegito tier
U6 saga: BoG SSG tier
Black saga: current SSG tier
ToP saga: RoF SSB tier

This way he is always weak enough to where he really wouldn't make that much of a difference in that arc.

[Koitsukai]

The Vegeta stamina thing is kinda tricky, the spectators kept saying he used all of his power but later on he proved them wrong by still having some ki left, quite a lot actually, given that he turned SSBE and lasted about a minute or so against Jiren and did a couple of powerful ki attacks. Well maybe not THAT much ki left, but still.
Truth is he had some energy left and it makes sense, after Toppo (whom he was beating up) he knew he had to help his teammates against Jiren, so why would he go all out against a foe that wasn't above him? the spectators were wrong and that's the writers fault because they messed with all of us putting those lines there about how depleted he was, when two episodes later we would actually witness Vegeta with nothing left.

I still don't understand why they put words on the spectators mouth as if they are speaking unquestionable truths just to be proven wrong by the fighters. People choose to believe those words over what the actual fights show.