Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Kenneth La Torre]

As Aniraza is revealed, on what power level can we expect it to be at?
In SDB Heroes it is shown SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta vs Aniraza...
[spoiler]https://mobile.twitter.com/MsDBZbabe/st ... 24/video/1[/spoiler]

Seeing as how ssb vegeta is battle damaged, probably bare minimum ssb level.

[TheSaiyanGod]

So, is there any possibility of the title of EP 122 referring to Aniraza? Apparently, it will crop up on EP 121 and maybe fight on EP 122

[JazzMazz]

Magetta is stronger than Frost and Cabba

All we particularly know about Magetter's attributes in battle is that he's durable to the point of being near-impervious to physical and chi attacks. We don't particularly know just how powerful he is.

Um, I think we do. His fought Vegeta multiple times, and from how all there confrontations have gone down, it seems that his in the same league as a Super Saiyan, but could also be slightly weaker based on his fight with Vegeta in 107. However, it still seems its his imperviousness that makes him such a formidable opponent.


In conclusion, I think its safe to say that Magetta is roughly Super Saiyan level, if slightly below that, but his insane durability allows him fight and even frustrate opponents that are stronger than him, much like Zamasu in the anime.

[Kenneth La Torre]

So, is there any possibility of the title of EP 122 referring to Aniraza? Apparently, it will crop up on EP 121 and maybe fight on EP 122

Yeah. Now thay you mentioned it, it may be refering to aniraza, as he is the strongest, in universe 3. Damn,what if it was that all along and people though it would be jiren.

[HeroR]

Well Trunks also said "If it's just Zamasu even I can...". He would have been killed by SSJ2 Trunks had he not been immortal, SSJ2 Trunks held up to him the second time and was planning on killing him with the remaining energy he had left and might have had Black not intervened and then yeah in the manga they said he's weaker than Trunks.

And Trunks tried to beat Zamasu by blowing himself up, so that really isn't a point in his favor. And the Super Saiyan 2 Trunks that supposedly could kill Zamasu in 57 was the same Super Saiyan 2 Trunks that kicked Rose Black into a building, so is Black only a little stronger than Trunks? And the Trunks that tries to blow himself up by holding Zamasu was Super Saiyan Rage Trunks, not Super Saiyan 2 Trunks. And given how Zamasu's immortality worked, no Trunks' sacrifice wouldn't have done a thing.

And the manga has nothing to do with the anime on this.

How is Dyspo weaker than SSG Goku? Dyspo had the upper hand in his fight against SSG/SSB Goku. And why is Hit lower than people like Golden Frieza, SSB Vegeta, and Toppo? Hit's fights against Jiren Dyspo make it clear that he's at the very least >= SSB.

The only reason Dyspo could even touch them is because of his speed. Considering he was afraid of base Freeza, I'm being very generous.

Hit has always been weaker than Blue Goku.

Magetta is stronger than Frost and Cabba

Magetta is tricky because of his endurance but frost was confirmed to be a lot stronger and Cabba has SS2.

Magetta got nothing.

Speed alone doesn't make up a power different. If he was able to hurt Hit, he is above Super Saiyan God Goku. Otherwise, Hit could tank. And Dyspo being afraid of Freeza isn't an indication of power since he ran when he saw how crazy Freeza was.

[Black Hawk]

Um, I think we do. His fought Vegeta multiple times, and from how all there confrontations have gone down, it seems that his in the same league as a Super Saiyan, but could also be slightly weaker based on his fight with Vegeta in 107. However, it still seems its his imperviousness that makes him such a formidable opponent.


In conclusion, I think its safe to say that Magetta is roughly Super Saiyan level, if slightly below that, but his insane durability allows him fight and even frustrate opponents that are stronger than him, much like Zamasu in the anime.

My mistake, I'd forgotten about their altercation in the Tournament of Power. It was...admittedly not super memorable.

However, that still doesn't quite prove that he's stronger than SSJ Cabba or true form Frost.

[JazzMazz]

Um, I think we do. His fought Vegeta multiple times, and from how all there confrontations have gone down, it seems that his in the same league as a Super Saiyan, but could also be slightly weaker based on his fight with Vegeta in 107. However, it still seems its his imperviousness that makes him such a formidable opponent.


In conclusion, I think its safe to say that Magetta is roughly Super Saiyan level, if slightly below that, but his insane durability allows him fight and even frustrate opponents that are stronger than him, much like Zamasu in the anime.

My mistake, I'd forgotten about their altercation in the Tournament of Power. It was...admittedly not super memorable.

However, that still doesn't quite prove that he's stronger than SSJ Cabba or true form Frost.

I would say it at least implies the latter of which. The two of them were working together to fight Vegeta, and with lines such as this from Frost, I don't think its that much of a leap to think that Magetta is the more capable of the two.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[PushoverMediaCritic]

Since U3 is relevant at the moment, I'd like to clear something up: yes, Ea does say that Nigrisshi is the greatest modified warrior in U3, but that's before he shows off Narirama. Nigrisshi also ends the meeting saying that the remaining warriors are in the process of being upgraded for the Tournament of Power as they speak. I just assume that all the U3 fighters stronger than Nigrisshi were made stronger than him after that meeting.

[Bullza]

And Trunks tried to beat Zamasu by blowing himself up, so that really isn't a point in his favor.

Which was when Trunks had just severely drained himself after having fought Black and sent through mountains with a Galick Gun and was going to use his remaining energy to kill an immortal being.

That even then Zamasu was only fighting on par with a drained Super Saiyan 2 Trunks and hit him just once does not show at all that he's a Blue Tier fighter.

And the Super Saiyan 2 Trunks that supposedly could kill Zamasu in 57 was the same Super Saiyan 2 Trunks that kicked Rose Black into a building, so is Black only a little stronger than Trunks?

No because like I said, he did the exact same thing in the manga version.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

And we know (in both versions) he isn't even as strong as Base Black. He got the drop on him, hit him into a building and never touched him again.

And the Trunks that tries to blow himself up by holding Zamasu was Super Saiyan Rage Trunks, not Super Saiyan 2 Trunks.

No it was just Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, he powered down after using up most of his energy from just fighting Black.

[HeroR]

And Trunks tried to beat Zamasu by blowing himself up, so that really isn't a point in his favor.

Which was when Trunks had just severely drained himself after having fought Black and sent through mountains with a Galick Gun and was going to use his remaining energy to kill an immortal being.

That even then Zamasu was only fighting on par with a drained Super Saiyan 2 Trunks and hit him just once does not show at all that he's a Blue Tier fighter.

And the Super Saiyan 2 Trunks that supposedly could kill Zamasu in 57 was the same Super Saiyan 2 Trunks that kicked Rose Black into a building, so is Black only a little stronger than Trunks?

No because like I said, he did the exact same thing in the manga version.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

And we know (in both versions) he isn't even as strong as Base Black. He got the drop on him, hit him into a building and never touched him again.

And the Trunks that tries to blow himself up by holding Zamasu was Super Saiyan Rage Trunks, not Super Saiyan 2 Trunks.

No it was just Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, he powered down after using up most of his energy from just fighting Black.

He was still Super Saiyan Rage, not Super Saiyan 2 and he figured he could blow Zamasu up to the point that his body would be vaporized, which was wrong based on Merged Zamasu. And Zamasu traded hands with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku and even hit Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta, so what do you mean he isn't on par with Blue? Again, but this logic Black Rose is only on par with Super Saiyan 2 Trunks since Trunks blocked an attack from him, parried his sword strikes, and then kicked him into a building since you keep pushing Zamasu's low end feats and saying that he's limit while ignoring his high end feats.

The manga isn't the anime, so why are you mixing the two? The manga also had Black weaker than Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta at the end, but that wasn't the case in the anime where Black powered up. That's not even get started on Merged Zamasu who got smashed by Vegetto Blue in the manga, but was on par in the anime.

Nope, it was Super Saiyan Rage, not sure why you think it was Super Saiyan 2.

Again, Black was sure that Zamasu by himself could kill Trunks. Goku and Vegeta wanted to rushed to saved Trunks. Why would they even worry if Zamasu was only on par with Super Saiyan 2 Trunks and Trunks has Super Saiyan Rage that allowed him to hold off both Black and Zamasu by himself? If you're going to say, 'he's an immortal, so Trunks could lose', that is heavily flawed since immorality has limits. Even Trunks could hold back Zamasu, then Goku and Vegeta wouldn't have worried about Trunks and just focused on Black. Not trying to get Goku to IT over to Trunks.

[Bullza]

He was still Super Saiyan Rage, not Super Saiyan 2 and he figured he could blow Zamasu up to the point that his body would be vaporized, which was wrong based on Merged Zamasu.

He definitely wasn't Super Saiyan Rage and looked nothing like it at all. Trunks looked exactly like Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, the same as he looked prior to turning into Super Saiyan Rage.

And Zamasu traded hands with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku

He did that in the manga as well.

and even hit Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta, so what do you mean he isn't on par with Blue?

The only time he hit Blue Vegeta was when Vegeta was focused on Trunks who had been hurt and both Black and Zamasu hit him at the same time and when Zamasu hit Vegeta from behind when he was flying after Black.

He never hit him at all from his own skill or power.

Again, but this logic Black Rose is only on par with Super Saiyan 2 Trunks since Trunks blocked an attack from him, parried his sword strikes, and then kicked him into a building since you keep pushing Zamasu's low end feats and saying that he's limit while ignoring his high end feats.

When he got the drop on him. At best you can call it an inconsistency because we know Super Saiyan 2 Trunks was weaker than Base Black. Also that characters much stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, never hit him at all.

Blue Goku fought Rose Black three times and never hit him so much as once.

The manga isn't the anime, so why are you mixing the two?

That's because they are very similar and share far more in common than they don't. The manga and anime had differences when it came to the Universe 6 Tournament. Frost out up a better fight in the manga compared to the anime for example.

But the general scale was still the same. Same with this saga. Rose Black was the strongest, then Blue Goku and Vegeta, then Base Black, then Super Saiyan 2 Trunks and then Zamasu. The details are different but the idea is still the same.

The manga also had Black weaker than Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta at the end, but that wasn't the case in the anime where Black powered up.

That's....arguable. I won't get into that though because that's a whole other discussion.

That's not even get started on Merged Zamasu who got smashed by Vegetto Blue in the manga, but was on par in the anime.

True but the major difference there is that Merged Zamasu in the anime had the extra power up from the rift which the manga version didn't have.

The manga version of Zamasu, was initially overpowering Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta. Then later Blue Goku came out with more power to match him in battle before losing. That also happened in the anime. Different order of events and different details but the same general thing happened.

[HeroR]

He was still Super Saiyan Rage, not Super Saiyan 2 and he figured he could blow Zamasu up to the point that his body would be vaporized, which was wrong based on Merged Zamasu.

He definitely wasn't Super Saiyan Rage and looked nothing like it at all. Trunks looked exactly like Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, the same as he looked prior to turning into Super Saiyan Rage.

And Zamasu traded hands with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku

He did that in the manga as well.

and even hit Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta, so what do you mean he isn't on par with Blue?

The only time he hit Blue Vegeta was when Vegeta was focused on Trunks who had been hurt and both Black and Zamasu hit him at the same time and when Zamasu hit Vegeta from behind when he was flying after Black.

He never hit him at all from his own skill or power.

Again, but this logic Black Rose is only on par with Super Saiyan 2 Trunks since Trunks blocked an attack from him, parried his sword strikes, and then kicked him into a building since you keep pushing Zamasu's low end feats and saying that he's limit while ignoring his high end feats.

When he got the drop on him. At best you can call it an inconsistency because we know Super Saiyan 2 Trunks was weaker than Base Black. Also that characters much stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, never hit him at all.

Blue Goku fought Rose Black three times and never hit him so much as once.

The manga isn't the anime, so why are you mixing the two?

That's because they are very similar and share far more in common than they don't. The manga and anime had differences when it came to the Universe 6 Tournament. Frost out up a better fight in the manga compared to the anime for example.

But the general scale was still the same. Same with this saga. Rose Black was the strongest, then Blue Goku and Vegeta, then Base Black, then Super Saiyan 2 Trunks and then Zamasu. The details are different but the idea is still the same.

The manga also had Black weaker than Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta at the end, but that wasn't the case in the anime where Black powered up.

That's....arguable. I won't get into that though because that's a whole other discussion.

That's not even get started on Merged Zamasu who got smashed by Vegetto Blue in the manga, but was on par in the anime.

True but the major difference there is that Merged Zamasu in the anime had the extra power up from the rift which the manga version didn't have.

The manga version of Zamasu, was initially overpowering Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta. Then later Blue Goku came out with more power to match him in battle before losing. That also happened in the anime. Different order of events and different details but the same general thing happened.

Yeah, it was Super Saiyan Rage, not sure why you're pushing is was just Super Saiyan 2.

Yeah, except unlike the anime, Goku never fight Zamasu in a lower form or claimed that Super Saiyan 2 Trunks could beat him. Goku always fight Zamasu as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Zamasu pushed Goku and hit Vegeta as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

He still hit him and hurt him, which makes no sense if he was only on par with Super Saiyan 2 Trunks.

Again, you are willing to dismissed Black's low end feats, but you play up Zamasu's low end feats while underplaying his high end feats, like him holding both Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Trunks at the same time to allow Black to wrecked them with the Kamehameha.

The share more in common storywise, not when it comes to scaling. People are notably weaker or stronger depending on which version of Super you read.

I would since the show suggested it and so did the director.

He didn't get an extra power-up, he got serious after Goku hurt him. He actually got weaker since his body started to fall apart as noted by Gowasu. And Goku only started to matched Merged Zamasu with Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and only lost because Merged Zamasu was an immortal. Goku got some good hits on Merged Zamasu, but he never fought evenly with him and the moment Zamasu got serious, he smashed Vegeta and Goku like eggs the moment they defused.

Overall, there is far more putting Zamasu on par with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan then only on par with Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, especially since the anime itself said that Zamasu got tag by stuff that shouldn't hit him because his guard was horrible. He purpose lowered his guard and went 'I'm immortal, hit me!'.

[Bullza]

Yeah, it was Super Saiyan Rage, not sure why you're pushing is was just Super Saiyan 2.

Because it was. Super Saiyan has one appearance and Super Saiyan Rage has an entirely different appearance. When he fought Zamasu he had the Super Saiyan appearance so that's what he was.

This is Super Saiyan (or 2) Trunks.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

This is Super Saiyan Rage Trunks with entirely different and spiky looking hair which he has in said form.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

This is Trunks when he fights Zamasu

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Now that's pretty obvious which form he resembles more. Additionally this is Super Saiyan Rage's unique looking aura.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Which is naturally not present in this image because he's not using the same form.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Yeah, except unlike the anime, Goku never fight Zamasu in a lower form or claimed that Super Saiyan 2 Trunks could beat him. Goku always fight Zamasu as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Zamasu pushed Goku and hit Vegeta as a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

He didn't really need to say it. We saw Super Saiyan 2 Trunks get the best of him and then hold his own against him even when he was drained. In the manga, despite Zamasu being weaker than the equivalent of Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Zamasu still knocks Super Saiyan God Vegeta on his ass and Goku still used Super Saiyan God against him anyway .

He still hit him and hurt him, which makes no sense if he was only on par with Super Saiyan 2 Trunks.

Piccolo hit and hurt Frieza, he was still no match for him. That Super Saiyan 2 Trunks hit and hurt Rose Black but it didn't stop him from getting beat to shit after ward. Which of course Blue Goku also did to Zamasu the second time they fought.

Again, you are willing to dismissed Black's low end feats, but you play up Zamasu's low end feats while underplaying his high end feats, like him holding both Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Trunks at the same time to allow Black to wrecked them with the Kamehameha.

That's because of majority. Aside from Black being hit by Trunks that one time, he went untouched when Goku, Vegeta and Trunks went after him one after another the next time. Before that hit, he'd already easily beaten Blue Vegeta and Goku.

Same with Zamasu, aside from that very first encounter when he fought Blue Goku and hit him that one time, he never did anything else. He never gave Goku or Vegeta any trouble, never hit them properly, was easily beaten around by Goku in the other two fights. After Trunks got his Rage form, whereas Black was able to hold his own and fight back, Zamasu was casually kicked away and then struggled to stand up. The second time, Trunks immediately blasted Zamasu away and then continued to fight Black who was able to hold his own. Shortly after Zamasu just matched the drained Super Saiyan 2 (if it was even 2 at all) Trunks and then got in trouble again.

Then the manga shows Rose Black also sharing this low end feat but makes it very clear he's above Blue level. Zamasu meanwhile somewhat shares the high end feat though he doesn't actually hit him and makes it very clear he's nowhere near that level.

The share more in common storywise, not when it comes to scaling. People are notably weaker or stronger depending on which version of Super you read.

The ordering still stays the same though. Enraged Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta was still stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Super Saiyan Goku was still stronger than Frost. Base Black was still stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Trunks. Zamasu was still stronger than all the Kais. Goku and Toppo are still on the same level and so on.

He didn't get an extra power-up, he got serious after Goku hurt him.

He called himself a weak god, put his hand in the hand and called upon the Light of Justice, which then struck his body and he Hulked up.

Overall, there is far more putting Zamasu on par with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan then only on par with Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, especially since the anime itself said that Zamasu got tag by stuff that shouldn't hit him because his guard was horrible. He purpose lowered his guard and went 'I'm immortal, hit me!'.

They said he let his guard down because he was immortal, like that time he was watching Black and Vegeta fight and was talking about it so Goku just kicked him in the skull. Going back to his first fight with Trunks, he wasn't letting his guard down there, he dodged a whole bunch of sword attacks until he just got caught. Zamasu then attacked Trunks who stopped his momentum through his own physical strength, then proceeded to pummel him, dodge Zamasu's chop and then beat him up some more.

Now compare that fight to when he fought Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta where he couldn't even land a single hit on him at all and was completely outmatched.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Both the manga and anime are following the same outline, so claiming any differences outside of the ones blatantly shown is baseless.

Future and present zamasu are the same strength. Future zamasu was "killed" by trunks in a straight up fight, with goku in the manga saying that zamasu was even weaker than trunks. So ssj2 trunks is stronger than him in both mediums, no room for debate.
An instance of trading blows with a stronger character doesn't mean anything in a vacuum since there are multiple instances of this in the series.
Otherwise lavender is comparable to the super saiyans even though it was made crystal clear that base Gohan was way too much for him to handle with the advantage of his poison being neutralized. And basil is ssj tier since he was trading blows with ssj Goku yet it should be obvious this isn't the case.

[TheSaiyanGod]

So, is there any possibility of the title of EP 122 referring to Aniraza? Apparently, it will crop up on EP 121 and maybe fight on EP 122

Yeah. Now thay you mentioned it, it may be refering to aniraza, as he is the strongest, in universe 3. Damn,what if it was that all along and people though it would be jiren.

The problem is that apparently all U7 warriors will face Aniraza, so Vegeta would not be alone challenging him.

Jiren has also been referred to sometimes as '' the strongest ''

[Hakaishin Liquir]

How is Dyspo weaker than SSG Goku? Dyspo had the upper hand in his fight against SSG/SSB Goku. And why is Hit lower than people like Golden Frieza, SSB Vegeta, and Toppo? Hit's fights against Jiren Dyspo make it clear that he's at the very least >= SSB.

The only reason Dyspo could even touch them is because of his speed. Considering he was afraid of base Freeza, I'm being very generous.

Hit has always been weaker than Blue Goku.

Magetta is stronger than Frost and Cabba

Magetta is tricky because of his endurance but frost was confirmed to be a lot stronger and Cabba has SS2.

Magetta got nothing.

Dyspo's speed is what makes him powerful. Saying that Dyspo is only a threat because of his speed is like saying that Goku is only a threat because of his transformations. Dyspo had the upper hand against SSG/SSB Goku. Just look at this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax51agR_gDA

At the end of this video, you can clearly see Dyspo pushing Goku back despite the fact that Goku knew about Dyspo's Light Bullet technique. Goku wasn't even shown landing a single hit on Dyspo. Then a few seconds later, Hit fights Dyspo on an even playing field this time and he gives Dyspo the Vegeta treatment (easily demolishes him), and Hit didn't even seem to be taking the fight seriously. Hit's and Goku's fights against Dyspo are enough to prove that Hit is at least SSB level.

Then in Hit vs Jiren, Hit was able to take many hits from Jiren, and he was able to adapt and block lots of Jiren's hits later on in the fight. Then Hit managed to land a clean punch on Jiren, something that even SSBKKx20 Goku couldn't do, and Hit's attack managed to launch Jiren back by quite a bit. Jiren also had a hard time moving while Hit was using Cage of Time on him, so any SSB level character would clearly not be able to move at all if they were affected by Cage of Time.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Um, I think we do. His fought Vegeta multiple times, and from how all there confrontations have gone down, it seems that his in the same league as a Super Saiyan, but could also be slightly weaker based on his fight with Vegeta in 107. However, it still seems its his imperviousness that makes him such a formidable opponent.


In conclusion, I think its safe to say that Magetta is roughly Super Saiyan level, if slightly below that, but his insane durability allows him fight and even frustrate opponents that are stronger than him, much like Zamasu in the anime.

My mistake, I'd forgotten about their altercation in the Tournament of Power. It was...admittedly not super memorable.

However, that still doesn't quite prove that he's stronger than SSJ Cabba or true form Frost.

Magetta is definitely stronger than Cabba and Frost. Magetta's durability is insane. He took a bunch of hits from SSJ Vegeta and didn't even have any visible dents on his body, so if Vegeta were to fight Magetta outside of a tournament, Vegeta would have to go beyond SSJ if he wanted to defeat Magetta. Heck, Magetta took a Final Flash from SSJ Vegeta and was only momentarily dazed, and in the ToP he blocked a Big Bang from SSJ Vegeta like it was nothing. The only thing that's really holding Magetta back, besides his low mental fortitude, is his speed, but even then he was still capable of parrying some of SSJ Vegeta's punches, so his speed seems to have improved after the U6 arc.

[ZombieVito]

People forget that what I posted is a power chain that only takes into account power.

The only reason Dyspo did that good against Hit was because he can increase his speed by 1000 fold. Once Hit learned how to counter it, Dyspo got trashed hard.

The only reason Hit did that good agaisnt Jiren is because of his time manipulation. Hit is below Blue Goku.

Magetta only lasts that long because of his metal body. The same reason Nappa lasted as long against Goku when he was only half as strong as him. Endurance.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

People forget that what I posted is a power chain that only takes into account power.

The only reason Dyspo did that good against Hit was because he can increase his speed by 1000 fold. Once Hit learned how to counter it, Dyspo got trashed hard.

The only reason Hit did that good agaisnt Jiren is because of his time manipulation. Hit is below Blue Goku.

Magetta only lasts that long because of his metal body. The same reason Nappa lasted as long against Goku when he was only half as strong as him. Endurance.

So you're only talking about pure power levels and not taking techniques and special abilities into account?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

People forget that what I posted is a power chain that only takes into account power.

The only reason Dyspo did that good against Hit was because he can increase his speed by 1000 fold. Once Hit learned how to counter it, Dyspo got trashed hard.

The only reason Hit did that good agaisnt Jiren is because of his time manipulation. Hit is below Blue Goku.

Magetta only lasts that long because of his metal body. The same reason Nappa lasted as long against Goku when he was only half as strong as him. Endurance.

So you're only talking about pure power levels and not taking techniques and special abilities into account?

I do that too.

Goku and Vegeta are extraordinarily strong in terms of pure power levels, but others can match or surpass them in other aspects that equalize a fight.