"Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby NintendoBlaze53 » Mon May 21, 2018 7:42 pm

I thought there was 3 timelines.
-Trunks Timeline
-Timeline where Zamasu becomes Black. Zamasu and Goku never meet until he takes his body.
-Timeline where Zamasu meets Goku and Beerus Hakai's Zamasu.

Basically if Trunks never came back to the past, then the 3rd timeline would never exist. Just like how if Trunks never came back to the past in the Android Arc, the timeline we live in now would never exist. Trunks's time travel creates a world divergence (For any Steins;Gate fans) and every time travel creates a new timeline. Am I wrong about that?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Scsigs » Mon May 21, 2018 7:44 pm

NintendoBlaze53 wrote:I thought there was 3 timelines.
-Trunks Timeline
-Timeline where Zamasu becomes Black. Zamasu and Goku never meet.
-Timeline where Zamasu meets Goku and Beerus Hakai's Zamasu.

Basically if Trunks never came back to the past, then the 3rd timeline would never exist. Just like how if Trunks never came back to the past in the Android Arc, the timeline we live in now would never exist. Trunks's time travel creates a world divergence (For any Steins;Gate fans) and every time travel creates a new timeline. Am I wrong about that?

I mean, that's exactly what I thought too, but apparently not.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby nato25 » Mon May 21, 2018 9:57 pm

Well that's the thing, the time travel in the Black arc doesn't adhere to how it works in the Cell arc, thus my confusion.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby nato25 » Mon May 21, 2018 10:20 pm

Scsigs wrote:
DHM211 wrote:
Scsigs wrote:See, that's the central difference between the 2 timelines that Black comes from & the one Zamasu was killed in. In the timeline Black comes from, Zamasu only saw Goku fight on GodTube, but that was the only thing he need.


Goku Black fought Goku in his timeline as well.
https://youtu.be/mRmn5qKDzCY?t=39
Its even the same exact scene from episode 53.

Huh. Ok. So, then the difference would be how long he waited to kill Gowasu. I can't imagine that they'd've killed him if he didn't kill Gowasu. Hell, maybe they didn't visit them a second time. We aren't given enough information. Again, this is consistent with Cell's timeline too, since he said that his timeline was affected by Trunks going back in time, which doesn't make sense. Slight inconsistencies that you can either ignore, or come up with an explanation. I'm assuming that the way I explained it was what Toriyama was going with, but the anime staff screwed it up. Obviously, there's a difference in their timeline & it's easily explainable, but the anime staff didn't do so.

On another note, found a good video dissecting Goku Black's accent in the dubs of Super's content. It's pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAHsxVkn16M&t=924s


Nice find. There's no doubt even within the arc itself Black's voice is inconsistent which is a bit of shame but it's not major. I think he's been getting better as the arc goes on and that matches up with what he says in the video below about 'chasing' Master's accent he was doing for Zamasu. The panel video below was very interesting, he directly addresses the whole british thing. He was very candid about it and it was cool to see.

Schemmel cops a lot of flack, I think unfairly. I have seen some videos where he's acting like a jerk but it seems he has reason to be frustrated. He's not a saint and that's fine with me, he's just real and open with his feelings. If he was always being a jerk without triggers that would be another story I guess. Anyway panel video is below, rose questions come from 6 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOMDxvimNEQ

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Scsigs » Mon May 21, 2018 10:55 pm

nato25 wrote:Well that's the thing, the time travel in the Black arc doesn't adhere to how it works in the Cell arc, thus my confusion.

In the anime, it does. In the manga, it doesn't. The anime definitely works the same way. When it comes to Trunks' time machine, it only creates new timelines if anything is altered. The Time Rings are created from people creating new timelines after one has been created already & is influenced by that future timeline being averted.
The manga adds in some shit about the time machine working in a different way. I forget how exactly, but it was incredibly contrived & just there for drama from what I remember.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby nato25 » Tue May 22, 2018 12:12 am

Scsigs wrote:
nato25 wrote:Well that's the thing, the time travel in the Black arc doesn't adhere to how it works in the Cell arc, thus my confusion.

In the anime, it does. In the manga, it doesn't. The anime definitely works the same way. When it comes to Trunks' time machine, it only creates new timelines if anything is altered. The Time Rings are created from people creating new timelines after one has been created already & is influenced by that future timeline being averted.
The manga adds in some shit about the time machine working in a different way. I forget how exactly, but it was incredibly contrived & just there for drama from what I remember.


It adheres to some parts (Trunks time machine creating new timelines/time rings) but then it throws this time loop at us with the our timeline Zamasu being the same Zamasu whose soul is inside Goku Black's body. That to me anyway is against how time travel works in Dragon Ball, loops shouldn't exist.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Cure Dragon 255 » Tue May 22, 2018 12:27 am

I'm sorry but is this the place to discuss this?


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Kogu 87 » Tue May 22, 2018 3:22 am

Artorias wrote:
Kogu 87 wrote:

My ask, what about his origin story does not make sense to you ?

Scsigs wrote:
Artorias wrote:It's just too bad that his origin story ends up making no sense, because he'd be damn near perfect otherwise.

His origin story goes as follows:

1. When he was still in his own body, he found out about Goku after the U6 tournament through Gowasu watching GodTube.
2. He asked that all-knowing (can't remember his name & I can't be bothered to look it up) dude about Goku.
3. He killed Gowasu & stole his Supreme Kai earrings.
4. He gathered the super Dragon Balls & switched bodies with Goku, whom he then promptly killed in his own body, as well as Chichi & Goten.
5. He stole a Time Ring & travelled to Trunks' timeline.
6. He teamed up with his alternate counterpart & they got that version immortality, then they killed all of the other gods & started their rampage on the whole of creation.

Shortly thereafter, Trunks travelled back to the other timeline & subsequently created another timeline separate from the one Black originated from, where they killed Zamasu & saved Gowasu. Simple. It's not unlike Cell's origin, where he came from a 3rd timeline where they managed to kill the Androids with the remote, then he did the same in his timeline. It's not hard to understand & makes a lot of sense.


I don't want to come off as an arrogant ass or anything, but I've been through this conversation with numerous people at this point, and frankly everyone thinks they understand his origin, and they lay out something similar to what you just did. But honestly, what you just laid out WOULD make sense, if that's all there was to it. Trust me, I understand all of what you just listed, but there's on detail that everyone seemingly doesn't catch.

The key piece here that makes it make no sense is: how exactly did the Zamasu that would go onto be Black get away with killing Gowasu in one timeline, but not ours? Keep in mind, he's the Zamasu that Goku came and fought, who then went on to go insane and kill Gowasu, and set everything in motion. But...HOW? We're meant to believe that in one timeline, Beerus and Goku just never showed up to Hakai him, and yet in "our" timeline they did? Why would the two timelines be any different? There was no time traveling that should've "split" the timeline.

Basically, it's a time loop that doesn't even work. It's a broken time loop. Trunks came back to cause Goku to go fight Zamasu, which caused Zamasu to kill Gowasu and become Black. But again, there's simply no reason that he would get the chance to become Black with zero interference in one timeline, but not ours. There's no reason Beerus didn't show up to Hakai him in that timeline the same as he did in our time.

I hope this made sense. I've frankly never heard anyone be able to explain this, and trust me I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong on this.


That's because the time loop does have a beginning.
In the case that there is no interference form trunks, the very first trigger that caused Zamasu to become Goku Black is after he witnessed Goku using divine energy and dealing so non-nonchalantly with grand zeno during the universe 6 tournament on God Tube. He also sees the super dragon balls in the background for the first time. This sets everything in motion.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Artorias » Tue May 22, 2018 5:34 am

Kogu 87 wrote:[

That's because the time loop does have a beginning.
In the case that there is no interference form trunks, the very first trigger that caused Zamasu to become Goku Black is after he witnessed Goku using divine energy and dealing so non-nonchalantly with grand zeno during the universe 6 tournament on God Tube. He also sees the super dragon balls in the background for the first time. This sets everything in motion.



Scsigs wrote:
Artorias wrote:The key piece here that makes it make no sense is: how exactly did the Zamasu that would go onto be Black get away with killing Gowasu in one timeline, but not ours? Keep in mind, he's the Zamasu that Goku came and fought, who then went on to go insane and kill Gowasu, and set everything in motion. But...HOW? We're meant to believe that in one timeline, Beerus and Goku just never showed up to Hakai him, and yet in "our" timeline they did? Why would the two timelines be any different? There was no time traveling that should've "split" the timeline.

Basically, it's a time loop that doesn't even work. It's a broken time loop. Trunks came back to cause Goku to go fight Zamasu, which caused Zamasu to kill Gowasu and become Black. But again, there's simply no reason that he would get the chance to become Black with zero interference in one timeline, but not ours. There's no reason Beerus didn't show up to Hakai him in that timeline the same as he did in our time.

I hope this made sense. I've frankly never heard anyone be able to explain this, and trust me I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong on this.

In the timeline Black comes from, Zamasu only saw Goku fight on GodTube, but that was the only thing he need.


That's actually not true. Black EXPLICITLY states that he is the same Zamasu that fought Goku and went on to go insane after their fight. This is during episode 61 when he's monologuing about his origin. They even cut to a flashback to their fight and everything. It's 100% undeniable. And that's the key piece here. That is the entire reason this never made any sense to me. The idea you both laid out, that the Zamasu that became Black didn't need to fight Goku, and merely saw him on Godtube, would've made perfect sense, but the show explicitly, for whatever reason, shuts that idea down.

And then, like you went on to state, it doesn't make any sense that Goku doesn't recognize Zamasu's body when they do the body switch, as according to BLACK HIMSELF, they'd already fought. See how this makes no freakin' sense?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby jeffbr92 » Wed May 23, 2018 7:16 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:I'm sorry but is this the place to discuss this?


No, but what to do about it? Timelines as well as power levels are controversial subjects that people love to debate.
Power levels are not just big numbers:


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Kogu 87 » Thu May 24, 2018 1:25 am

Artorias wrote:
That's actually not true. Black EXPLICITLY states that he is the same Zamasu that fought Goku and went on to go insane after their fight. This is during episode 61 when he's monologuing about his origin. They even cut to a flashback to their fight and everything. It's 100% undeniable. And that's the key piece here. That is the entire reason this never made any sense to me. The idea you both laid out, that the Zamasu that became Black didn't need to fight Goku, and merely saw him on Godtube, would've made perfect sense, but the show explicitly, for whatever reason, shuts that idea down.

And then, like you went on to state, it doesn't make any sense that Goku doesn't recognize Zamasu's body when they do the body switch, as according to BLACK HIMSELF, they'd already fought. See how this makes no freakin' sense?


Apologies i was thinking of the manga there.

The anime situation is caused by what we a call a causal loop. Also remember here that the nature of the time ring travel is different from Bulma's time machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_loop

Apologies for derailing the convo folks. We can continue the convo via personal messages.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Dragon Ball Gus » Sat May 26, 2018 6:18 pm

So, this has been on my mind for months now, and I originally wanted to talk about this after the Future Trunks Arc ends, but since the show is on break right now, and the arc is about to end in a few weeks, I think I wanna discuss now.

Now what I wanted to talk about is the Universe Survival Arc. What I keep thinking about is when this arc premieres on Toonami, the show would potentially get renamed, "Dragon Ball Super: Universe Survival". And I keep thinking it might happen for three reasons.

Number one, the arc is visually different from the previous arcs and filler episodes. You know, with the filter and Limit-Break x Survivor.

Number two, it's longer than the previous arcs. Before this arc came out, we thought the longest Super arcs can get at most are 25 episodes. The longest arc at the time, the Future Trunks Arc, was 20 episodes. Then the Universe Survival Arc came out. And it was 54 episodes long. That's almost as long as Z arcs.

And number three, Japan kinda did this when the arc was coming out. You guys remember those previews? If you don't, I'll refresh your memory. At Jump Festa in 2016, they gave us a teaser for the Universe Survival Arc, where they showed those manga panels on what the arc was going to be about. Well at the end of that preview, if you pay attention to the logo, there is white kanji that says "Universe Survival Arc". The other preview was the one that gave us *cough* Kale *cough*. At the end of that one, Goku says, "Doragon Boru Supa: Uchū Sabaibaru Hen". He said some other shit that I can't understand, but I'll ignore that. But what he's saying is, "Dragon Ball Super: Universe Survival Arc". Heck, they even did this, when the arc was actually airing, with they promoted Android 17, the entire Universe 7 team, and the Saiyans.

So yeah, due to those three reasons, I do think that when the, Universe Survival Arc premieres on Toonami, the show will be renamed "Dragon Ball Super: Universe Survival". Kinda like what they did with the Buu Arc of Kai when they renamed that "Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters". But anyways, what do you guys think? Do you think my, i guess theory, of the show getting renamed, when the Universe Survival Arc comes out is possible, or do you think, Nah, they'll probably just keep the same name?

Phew, this turned out to be a lot loaded than I thought.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Scsigs » Sat May 26, 2018 6:48 pm

Responding to the above, no they're not gonna do that. For one, FUNimation doesn't change titles anymore from the Japanese, unless they're the official overseas names, like Attack on Titan & My Hero Academia. Only the Dragon Ball movies have gotten different English titles overseas that weren't direct translations of the Japanese titles, which I, honestly, didn't mind because those movie titles in Japanese are both too long, descriptive, & some of them don't make any sense with the movie we got.
On to Kai, The Final Chapters is called that everywhere, not just overseas. Even then, it's just called "Dragon Ball Kai: The Final Chapters." Toei came up with the name, not FUNimation. Even then, Toei rebranded the series to include the "Z" in the title. That wasn't FUNi. It's to the point that Toei had the title shots reanimated to have the "Z" in the title of the series. FUNi really tries to preserve the original Japanese as much as possible.
So, yeah, I don't think a title rebrand is what they're gonna do unless Toei themselves want to do it. Many animated shows go through animation bumps all the time. Look at One Piece. When that show went HD & widescreen, the animation started to change drastically & now it's completely different to even back then. They didn't feel the need to rebrand the series after the timeskip with a subtitle. That rarely happens anymore.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Baggie_Saiyan » Sat May 26, 2018 10:10 pm

So I was gonna ask this in the Animation thread but it was locked so I think this might be the best place since this arc is fresh in everyone's mind but does anyone remember Black doing this pose or similar, either in Base or Rosé:


Trying to find all the references Nakazawa used for his DBS FES line but the Black (and SS4 Goku) are alluding me.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Ajay » Sat May 26, 2018 10:16 pm

Episode 57, I think.



Just with the far hand replaced with Goku's typical pose, I guess.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Baggie_Saiyan » Sun May 27, 2018 12:38 pm

Ajay wrote:Episode 57, I think.



Just with the far hand replaced with Goku's typical pose, I guess.

Thats definitely the closest, thanks! Really hoping he'll use Takahashi's SSG as a reference when it comes to doing that form.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Danfun64 » Mon May 28, 2018 10:18 pm

Once Funi gets to the Yurin episode... how are they going to handle it? I doubt Adult Swim/Toonami is going to skip the episode, as many of the other AS shows have shown worse...but do you think a content advisory message is going to be shown before the intro?
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I don't think making Dragon Ball a greek tragedy would sit well with young readers.


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Cure Dragon 255 » Mon May 28, 2018 10:22 pm

Meh. Adult Swim has shown even worse things. Also its airing at midnight.


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby shadd21 » Wed May 30, 2018 9:45 pm

Danfun64 wrote:Once Funi gets to the Yurin episode... how are they going to handle it? I doubt Adult Swim/Toonami is going to skip the episode, as many of the other AS shows have shown worse...but do you think a content advisory message is going to be shown before the intro?
What happens in the Yurin episode that promp them to use a content advisory message?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" FUNimation Dub Official Discussion Thread

Postby Danfun64 » Wed May 30, 2018 10:02 pm

Toei portrays Roshi's pervy side in the worst light it's ever been seen in. He actually seems kinda rapey in some scenes there.

The reason I mentioned content advisories is because of Super usually being a lot tamer than the likes of many of AS's other shows.
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I don't think making Dragon Ball a greek tragedy would sit well with young readers.


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