Wait, when did we see Goku and Vegeta achieving ssj 2 for the first time?, we did see them transforming but by the time they did it, it wasn't the first time so i don't think that we can include ssj 2 in the non-rage transformations. This also the same case with ssj 3. Goten and Trunks didn't have to be angry to transform, but that doesn't change that Trunks (specials/super flashback/anime), Vegeta (if i'm not wrong), Gohan, Goku and Cabba, transformed being triggered by rage, and Gohan was triggered by rage when he transformed into a ssj 2, my point is that ssj transformations can be triggered by these feelings . Ssgod and SSGSS are different cases as those transformations are pretty different than the regular ssj transformation and requires control, also, don't put ssj 4 here, it's the best explained transformation in this franchise and it doesn't deserves being even mentioned in this conversation (just kidding thought).ekrolo2 wrote:Trunks being even initially as strong as he is total lunacy that you cannot justify or use as a justification for Super *fuck logic* Trunks existing.dbs fanboy wrote:But Trunks asspull power was a transformation in the end, not a rage boost, in this case (while still being a bullshit power up) wouldn't it make sense that his transformation was triggered by rage like any other ssj transformation?
Also, i don't think that iraki or whatever tried to like make us believe that Trunks never snapped before, because we know he did, in fact, in ep 52's flashback Trunks snapped when he transformed into a super saiyan. In ep 61, Trunks snapped because PTSD and guilty feelings, he was being blamed for everything that happened and in fact it was true that he fucked up things by going to the past, so he had to remember every single thing that had happened, all those people dying, his mother dying, everyone in danger, all those promises that he made about fixing everything to realize that he might be the one responsible to all those terrible events that happened in the future and that everything he did trying to fix the problem and save everyone, made things worse. That's really messed up
The transformation itself is still an asspull and things could have been better handled, but in-universe perspective it makes sense that Trunks, being equal in power to a ssj 3 Goku in the manga with just his ssj2, and equal to a ssj 2 Goku in the anime who's stronger than the Goku in Z (as we saw in RoF movie, end of BoG movie, BoG arc, and RoF arc) could achieve a new stronger transformation in a similar way to ssj 2. It's still stupid because there is no explanation to what exactly is this level of power, there's nothing said by the characters in-universe, and it could have been better handled with a better execution.
The only form that really needs anger is SS1 really and even that's not the case when in the manga, Kid Trunks and Goten have it just fine and Future Trunks already has it before Gohan died. SS2 is attainable without anger as seen by Goku and Vegeta, SS3 too, 4 is probably the antithesis of them all since you need to calm down from a berzerker rage to get it, SSGod doesn't need anger either and Blue's power is described as being calm. Super *fuck logic* Trunks is clearly meant to be some quasi-Blue thing if the aura is any indication so that makes it even more moronic for a calm form with perfect ki control get attained through anger. Even the brief snippets of Whis' training for Goku and Vegeta showed us that Blue primarily seems to come from keeping a level head and composing yourself to use ki carefully so it doesn't leak.
This is also a bit unrelated but Black's whole "your sins are what make me do this Trunks!" is also totally forced since Black has no idea Trunks can time travel period before he goes through the crack in time and for a guy who can't shut up, there's no way Black WOULDN'T have used this to taunt and provoke Trunks into doing something stupid during the year they spent fighting one another.
I only mentioned the fact that Trunks was this strong because often people say that it doesn't make sense that Trunks changes from being ssj 2 level to a different level in power, and i think that is necessary to keep in mind that Trunks's ssj 2 is not a regular ssj 2 (i assumed that you would addres this as a flaw so i decided to mention it earlier to prevent further confusion and discussion).
It may be forced but Black did say that it was one of the reasons and not the only reason. But whatever, there's no point in arguing about this.