Western reactions to Super (Dub version) Funimation UGH!!

[TheMikado]

Let me first preface this by saying I am NOT a fan of Super at all. Primarily due to the characterizations and lore changes. So if this causes you to dismiss what I say next, so be it.

I watched the Dub to simply get an idea on if I was being unfair to the Japanese Super subs, maybe I was missing something that didn't carry over well in subs and I needed to watch it in my native language to fully grasp it. It also appears they cleaned up the animation a bit, so I assume its based on the Bluray version. Other item of note is that I am watching it back to back with Kai, which I had already planned on doing regardless of Super airing. That being said, the characterization and even the pokemon-ish visuals are a bit jarring, jumping between the series. After watching the first episode of Super dub, I was in disbelief and literally went back and watched Super on crunchy roll scene for scene. I've written down important quotes and noted difference and its fairly stark... This will also serve as a review of the dub.

Goku !!! - How is it possible to make him 100x more idiotic and unlikable. I wasn't particularly pleased with Super Goku (sub), but Super Goku (dub) is a total moron who gets absolutely no respect at all from anyone!
I will ignore, how incredibly irresponsible they make Goku look with Goten in the field and destroying his livelihood throw training of the fact that Goten had to tell Goku to take the money. The more egregious issue was a very specific change Funimation made in the Dub. Mr. Satan trying to give Goku money and Goku refuses. In the original dub Goku says "How many 100,000 are in 100 Million?" I actually find this to be a perfectly acceptable question. Goku is no math whiz, but understands the concept that 100,000 is less than 100 million and that it is fractional. He understands 2nd grade concepts, Great! Now in the dub, and I couldn't believe this so I actually had to rewatch this and write it down. "How much is 100 million? Is that more than 100,000?" YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! This is first grade level understanding, the fact that Goku doesn't conceptually know and understand that one thousand is more than a million takes his idiocy to a whole new level.. To be honest I was taken aback but could have overlooked it if he wasnt being CONSISTENTLY portrayed like this in the dub...
When Goku is on King Kais planet, Goku is consistently ridiculed and called a moron, idiot, stupid, etc. Not just by King Kai but literally everyone.. Yes the sub did, but the degree to which Goku was portrayed as a joke was unbearable.
In the sub, Beerus comments multiple times on how strong Goku is, although not strong enough. In the dub, Beerus makes it seem like Goku is completely nothing at all. I guess this makes sense with the way power scaling eventually goes. I will just wait to see if the Beerus 10% line is still there or not. However this is nowhere near the worst of the exchange. The part that made me stop again was watching Goku interact with Beerus. In the sub, Goku casually interacts with Beerus, but seems to straighten up and show the appropriate levels of respect and speech towards Beerus. In the dub, Goku literally pulls a Homer Simpson. Goku awkwardly says " It is an honor for you to meet me sir." in nonsensical sentences and uses strange or made-up titles/honorifics. Its literally him behaving as a total and complete idiot. I really didn't even have issues with these parts in the sub and we haven't even gotten to the "forgetting senzu beans" and "never kissing" parts of the series yet. Further, the interactions with Beerus, the Gods, basically everyone, seem to show a total lack of respect for Goku at all. He is literally a super strong Homer Simpson.

I was going to make a bulleted list, issues that were present in the subs are all there so no real point rehashing it.
So how has the fandom reacted to this? First I will call them the "professional fans" These are the guess that are emotionally invested in its success, watch the ratings, count the stats, and offer alternative business plans for marketing and scheduling things such as the shows lineup or timeslot. You can see some of it here http://toonamifaithful.com/opinion-shou ... art-super/ and here http://www.toonamisquad.com/rebuttal-de ... r-toonami/.

Next are the more casual fans reactions. Contrary to popular belief, there are a large amount of people who were waiting to watch the dub. These people like funimation "Superman" Goku and Faulconer tracks. I'm of course going to post the negative ones because I that's primarily what I hone in on due to my bias. However its clear that those who want to watch the dub by and large have a dislike of Super Goku.


https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/5 ... _when_dbz/
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1346005

Can you name a kids show with a plot weaker than super? All I can think of Teen Titans Go. I mean power rangers has always had a weak plot but I can't think of anything in one of their episodes that was as stupid as Goku forgetting the seal to the jar, or trunks just magically being able to fight on the same level as Goku with absolutely no explanation.

I like loveable goof Goku who gets serious when he fights. Whichever one that is.

Also, Falconer all the way.

Funimation (Superman) Goku > DBZ Toriyama (likes fighting) Goku >>>>>>>>> DB Super (fucking moron) Goku

At least Vegeta is consistently the best character in all versions.

Never saw the sub for Z, but I always thought the selfish side of Goku still showed up on the dub. I liked the subtlety.

Going from that to the Super sub is crazy. Makes me wonder how any of his friends can stand him.

I also like that in the Dub of Z, that if characters can get to the point where they feel they have to call him out for being selfish, there's a little character development through shame, unlike the sub where it's like talking to a brick wall, and they need to threaten all of reality for a really dumb Goku action to get him to maybe finally learn his lesson.

So yes plenty of people prefer the Goku they like, calling him Superman is a little belittling to the character but he was certainly more of "superhero" and a role model than current Goku. Even watching Kai, Goku was held in high regard by everyone, while in Super he seems to be considered nothing more than a super strong idiot.

Also doesnt help when we have guys like this on the other side, if there is one way to make sure casuals don't like something its to be an elitist about it, but that's part of the fandoms problem and "canoncity"

I'm a purist and whenever I hear any positive talk about the dubs or music changes, I just block the user.

and of course casuals react to this.

That seems a little extreme, we're all fans of the same show after all, voice cast preferences and music preferences are just a side subject of that, seems odd to block talking to other people over that.

I wish we could talk about Dragon Ball without people shitting on dub fans. lol

Let people like what they like, no one here is factually correct.

Anyway, all this means nothing is we don't have ratings. See thread here. viewtopic.php?f=25&t=37072
These are the latest ratings. The thing that stands out to me is the 8PM primetime slot. Every other show on the list is indicated with an (r) rerun. So Super is running against reruns in the US for the prime slot.
Is Super doing bad, well no? Should it be doing better? Idk, but I would expect it to.

TIME PROGRAM HH Viewers (000) A1849 rating A1849 (000)
8:00 Dragon Ball Super 0.57 938 0.35 444
8:30 Samurai Jack (r) 0.40 634 0.24 308
9:00 American Dad (r) 0.45 702 0.30 390
9:30 Rick & Morty (r) 0.50 767 0.38 488
10:00 Rick & Morty (r) 0.56 842 0.43 554
10:30 Family Guy (r) 0.71 1063 0.48 616
11:00 Family Guy (r) 1427 0.64 825

====

TIME PROGRAM Viewers (000) A1849 rating A1849 (000)
11:30 Dragon Ball Super 1140 0.56 716
12:00a Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters 1003 0.49 634
12:30a JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure 769 0.37 480
1:00a Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn 618 0.31 401
1:30a Hunter X Hunter 625 0.33 424
2:00a Naruto: Shippuden 621 0.31 402
2:30a One Piece 525 0.27 342
3:00a Ghost in the Shell (r) 453 0.23 291

Anyway. The long and short of this is that Super as a show and particularly the dub version of it may not appeal to western audience and especially US audiences where they are used to "superhero" Goku. I fear the gulf may be too wide to reconcile, especially with the way the dub is portraying Goku as far less respected and intelligent than even his Japanese dub counterpart. If you have not watched the US dub on Toonami, I highly recommend you check it out to see what US audiences are seeing. What do you guys think of how the Dub will do with western audiences?

[TheMikado]

So no one feels that Goku not knowing that a million is more than a thousand is incredibly regressive and awful?? Or that Goku apparently lacks the intelligence to construct coherent sentences??

This is worse than the original Z funimation dub and everyone is just cool with that?

[Bansho64]

This is worse than the original Z funimation dub and everyone is just cool with that?

No, it's not that. People probably aren't responding to this thread because of the clear and alarmingly angry bias against not only Super, but Goku as well.

We've gotten at least 6 or 7 threads about this in the last week or so. They're all about the same thing and it's extremely tiring at this point. People are just copying and pasting the same thread and saying the same thing in different ways.

I have as many qualms with Super and it's portrayal of Goku as much as the next guy, but even I really think some of this is going off the deep end.

[TheMikado]

This is worse than the original Z funimation dub and everyone is just cool with that?

No, it's not that. People probably aren't responding to this thread because of the clear and alarmingly angry bias against not only Super, but Goku as well.

We've gotten at least 6 or 7 threads about this in the last week or so. They're all about the same thing and it's extremely tiring at this point. People are just copying and pasting the same thread and saying the same thing in different ways.

I have as many qualms with Super and it's portrayal of Goku as much as the next guy, but even I really think some of this is going off the deep end.

Except this is specifically about the dub, have you watched the Toonami dub? Has anyone on this site watched it?
This isn't even about Super or Japanese Super Goku, the dub has taken all the issues and magnified them beyond even the current levels of perceived stupidity. They have, through the dub made him even more idiotic. Funimation was supposed to be much better now, people specifically stated they would handle this well and, well, its worse than before in my opinion. There's literally no information anywhere, review or otherwise of the dub and there should be. You're free to write this off as another Goku/Super bashing thread if you want to, but this is a dub bashing thread. Its awful and needs to be called out.

[Boo Machine]

So no one feels that Goku not knowing that a million is more than a thousand is incredibly regressive and awful?? Or that Goku apparently lacks the intelligence to construct coherent sentences??

This is worse than the original Z funimation dub and everyone is just cool with that?

I'm indifferent. They're such small jokes and easily forgotten that I'm surprised it was on anyones radar at all. A few reaction channels I've seen react to the episode barely gave it any thought either. Just a small chuckle and continued watching.

[Ki Breaker]

The dub's not that bad, didn't have any problems while watching the framing scenes either..

The dub shouldn't be a bigger mess than what it already is.. I don't know why it seemed to you that way..

[Lord Frieza]

Last time I checked Goku was a child raised in the woods who spent a an undefined amount of that time alone. While he he was clearly taught the basics, he has no formal education.

When we met him he got his own age wrong, hand no concept of technology or currency and barely even knew what a female was. So despite Goku's genius is martial arts their is more then enough evidence to show that, even from the start, Goku's basic knowledge is very lacking in many aspects for a child of his age.

While Roshi did improve on Goku's education during his training, 8 months in not enough time to make up for the years he lost. This is not the only problem. Goku spent the majority of his childhood ruffing it for the most part. The longest time he ever stayed in one place before getting married was the 3 years at Kami's. Since he's been constantly on the move, he's had no real time to settle down and really learn many of the things you and I have rammed into our heads at a young age. Even when he settle down its clear the person who handled all the finances was Chi-Chi and he has never down any real work until after his battle with Buu.

Through out his entire life Goku has never needed more then basic mathematics to get by and even someone did try to get him to learn, his lifestyle is not conducive to helping him retain that information for any length of time and he would soon forget it. It also dose not help that the subject would likely bore him to tears.

So all in all I find your complaint about Goku having trouble with math most people find easy nonsensical because Goku is not most people.

[TheMikado]

The dub's not that bad, didn't have any problems while watching the framing scenes either..

The dub shouldn't be a bigger mess than what it already is.. I don't know why it seemed to you that way..

So no one feels that Goku not knowing that a million is more than a thousand is incredibly regressive and awful?? Or that Goku apparently lacks the intelligence to construct coherent sentences??

This is worse than the original Z funimation dub and everyone is just cool with that?

I'm indifferent. They're such small jokes and easily forgotten that I'm surprised it was on anyones radar at all. A few reaction channels I've seen react to the episode barely gave it any thought either. Just a small chuckle and continued watching.

I stated that independently they aren't bad, however this is also with the context of knowing what things are coming from Goku in the future.
My point is that the dub took completely ordinary sentences and needlessly dumb down Goku more then what was necessary. This will be parts of his character as the story continues to build up with the other things we see in the Japanese version that were noticeable. This is really in stark contrast to "superhero" Goku that the west is use to seeing. Here he acts like a 5 year old versus someone his friends trusted and looked up to.

If you want to see what I mean just watch the first episode of the Toonami dub back to back with the crunchy roll episode. I would say the first episode and the one where Goku first Beerus are the two that seem to unnecessarily shift the tone.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

The dub's not that bad, didn't have any problems while watching the framing scenes either..

The dub shouldn't be a bigger mess than what it already is.. I don't know why it seemed to you that way..

So no one feels that Goku not knowing that a million is more than a thousand is incredibly regressive and awful?? Or that Goku apparently lacks the intelligence to construct coherent sentences??

This is worse than the original Z funimation dub and everyone is just cool with that?

I'm indifferent. They're such small jokes and easily forgotten that I'm surprised it was on anyones radar at all. A few reaction channels I've seen react to the episode barely gave it any thought either. Just a small chuckle and continued watching.

I stated that independently they aren't bad, however this is also with the context of knowing what things are coming from Goku in the future.
My point is that the dub took completely ordinary sentences and needlessly dumb down Goku more then what was necessary. This will be parts of his character as the story continues to build up with the other things we see in the Japanese version that were noticeable. This is really in stark contrast to "superhero" Goku that the west is use to seeing. Here he acts like a 5 year old versus someone his friends trusted and looked up to.

If you want to see what I mean just watch the first episode of the Toonami dub back to back with the crunchy roll episode. I would say the first episode and the one where Goku first Beerus are the two that seem to unnecessarily shift the tone.

Do you have no concept of lip flaps? ADR script writers will need to reword what was said in the Japanese version in order for it to fit the lip flaps of the character when dubbed into English. That's why some things are changed, they are accurately dubbing the show

[Boo Machine]

I stated that independently they aren't bad, however this is also with the context of knowing what things are coming from Goku in the future.
My point is that the dub took completely ordinary sentences and needlessly dumb down Goku more then what was necessary. This will be parts of his character as the story continues to build up with the other things we see in the Japanese version that were noticeable. This is really in stark contrast to "superhero" Goku that the west is use to seeing. Here he acts like a 5 year old versus someone his friends trusted and looked up to.

If you want to see what I mean just watch the first episode of the Toonami dub back to back with the crunchy roll episode. I would say the first episode and the one where Goku first Beerus are the two that seem to unnecessarily shift the tone.

I've seen both. Sure the dub makes it a bit dumber, but it's such a small change to such a small joke that, like I said, I'm surprised anyone gave it any thought.

[Ki Breaker]

I stated that independently they aren't bad, however this is also with the context of knowing what things are coming from Goku in the future.
My point is that the dub took completely ordinary sentences and needlessly dumb down Goku more then what was necessary. This will be parts of his character as the story continues to build up with the other things we see in the Japanese version that were noticeable. This is really in stark contrast to "superhero" Goku that the west is use to seeing. Here he acts like a 5 year old versus someone his friends trusted and looked up to.

If you want to see what I mean just watch the first episode of the Toonami dub back to back with the crunchy roll episode. I would say the first episode and the one where Goku first Beerus are the two that seem to unnecessarily shift the tone.

I've seen both. Sure the dub makes it a bit dumber, but it's such a small change to such a small joke that, like I said, I'm surprised anyone gave it any thought.

he might have noticed the small details because it's his language..

[TheMikado]

Last time I checked Goku was a child raised in the woods who spent a an undefined amount of that time alone. While he he was clearly taught the basics, he has no formal education.

When we met him he got his own age wrong, hand no concept of technology or currency and barely even knew what a female was. So despite Goku's genius is martial arts their is more then enough evidence to show that, even from the start, Goku's basic knowledge is very lacking in many aspects for a child of his age.

While Roshi did improve on Goku's education during his training, 8 months in not enough time to make up for the years he lost. This is not the only problem. Goku spent the majority of his childhood ruffing it for the most part. The longest time he ever stayed in one place before getting married was the 3 years at Kami's. Since he's been constantly on the move, he's had no real time to settle down and really learn many of the things you and I have rammed into our heads at a young age. Even when he settle down its clear the person who handled all the finances was Chi-Chi and he has never down any real work until after his battle with Buu.

Through out his entire life Goku has never needed more then basic mathematics to get by and even someone did try to get him to learn, his lifestyle is not conducive to helping him retain that information for any length of time and he would soon forget it. It also dose not help that the subject would likely bore him to tears.

So all in all I find your complaint about Goku having trouble with math most people find easy nonsensical because Goku is not most people.

Again, I stated the original Japanese version makes sense because I expect Goku to have trouble with math.
Japanese=
"How many 100,000s are in 100 million"
English =
"How much is 100 million, is that more than 100,000? "

This isn't about being able to do division or basic math. There is no excuse for Goku to not know 1,000 is more than 1 million. He went through the whole battle on Namek thing where all they talked about were power levels. My point is a 5 year old knows that 1 million is more that 1,000 without being able to do addition and subtraction.

Do you have no concept of lip flaps? ADR script writers will need to reword what was said in the Japanese version in order for it to fit the lip flaps of the character when dubbed into English. That's why some things are changed, they are accurately dubbing the show

Understandable, by its more than that because they are consistently dumbing him down in other ways as well.

I've seen both. Sure the dub makes it a bit dumber, but it's such a small change to such a small joke that, like I said, I'm surprised anyone gave it any thought.

I keep stating this. It's not this one joke. Period. I watched all episodes and they have him repeatedly making statements like this. If it was one, it would be ignored, if it was for lip flaps, it would be ignored. My point is, they are actively making Goku even less intelligent than his Japanese sub self. Its not one episode, one sentence, one line. Its consistent over the episodes released so far. I stated it before. The japanese versions of those scenes are fine, my issue is taking the liberty with the dub to actually make Goku appear even less intelligent.

[Boo Machine]

I keep stating this. It's not this one joke. Period. I watched all episodes and they have him repeatedly making statements like this. If it was one, it would be ignored, if it was for lip flaps, it would be ignored. My point is, they are actively making Goku even less intelligent than his Japanese sub self. Its not one episode, one sentence, one line. Its consistent over the episodes released so far. I stated it before. The japanese versions of those scenes are fine, my issue is taking the liberty with the dub to actually make Goku appear even less intelligent.

I'm aware it's not just the one joke. Sorry that I keep writing it like I am referring to the one though. That's on me for not communicating properly.

However that doesn't change how I feel about it. That the small changes to the lines aren't worth the sweat. It's still the same jokes from the Japanese version but tweaked a little bit.

[Lord Frieza]

Again, I stated the original Japanese version makes sense because I expect Goku to have trouble with math.
Japanese=
"How many 100,000s are in 100 million"
English =
"How much is 100 million, is that more than 100,000? "

This isn't about being able to do division or basic math. There is no excuse for Goku to not know 1,000 is more than 1 million. He went through the whole battle on Namek thing where all they talked about were power levels. My point is a 5 year old knows that 1 million is more that 1,000 without being able to do addition and subtraction.

No, Vegeta and Frieza's forces were talking about it not Goku or any of the earthlings. Besides Bulma, our earth born heroes have never once talked about power levels in a numerical sense. When people have talked about it in-front of Goku, they just confirm things he can sense anyway, so he's capable of understanding them saying "he's more powerful then Nappa/Ginyu" without actually needing to do any math work himself.

[Doctor.]

This is worse than the original Z funimation dub and everyone is just cool with that?

This is an overreaction, don't you think? Making an already dumb Goku dumber is in no way comparable to completely giving him a different personality.

[TheMikado]

Again, I stated the original Japanese version makes sense because I expect Goku to have trouble with math.
Japanese=
"How many 100,000s are in 100 million"
English =
"How much is 100 million, is that more than 100,000? "

This isn't about being able to do division or basic math. There is no excuse for Goku to not know 1,000 is more than 1 million. He went through the whole battle on Namek thing where all they talked about were power levels. My point is a 5 year old knows that 1 million is more that 1,000 without being able to do addition and subtraction.

No, Vegeta and Frieza's forces were talking about it not Goku or any of the earthlings. Besides Bulma, our earth born heroes have never once talked about power levels in a numerical sense. When people have talked about it in-front of Goku, they just confirm things he can sense anyway, so he's capable of understanding them saying "he's more powerful then Nappa/Ginyu" without actually needing to do any math work himself.

In either case the Japanese version not only understands that a thousand is less than a million, but apparently understands its a fraction of it and understands the concept of division by extension. Its not an issue of whether he can do math, its whether he possesses the knowledge of a 5 year old or not.

This is worse than the original Z funimation dub and everyone is just cool with that?

This is an overreaction, don't you think? Making an already dumb Goku dumber is in no way comparable to completely giving him a different personality.

If it was just the one joke it would totally be an overreaction. The problem I'm having is two-fold.
1)Many people who watch the subs may not revisit the dubs. So when the Dub people complain about how stupid Goku is, they have no idea how far he's sunk in the dub as compared to the sub.
2) This is "superhero" Goku audience. The differences between Japanese Z Goku and Super Goku are much much smaller than the difference between US Z Goku and US Super Goku. Literally after viewing this the personality differences between Super and Z Goku is much more tolerable. I'm not a fan, but I have a feeling this Goku in the US version may be borderline unwatchable if your impression of Goku is "superhero".

[Baggie_Saiyan]

So no one feels that Goku not knowing that a million is more than a thousand is incredibly regressive and awful?? Or that Goku apparently lacks the intelligence to construct coherent sentences??

This is worse than the original Z funimation dub and everyone is just cool with that?

Lmao you are not serious are you? Wait you really are.... Yeah FUNi changed Goku's character dramatically ie I am speech but them making an innocuous line even more innocuous shame on them! This is a non comparison and the fact the you are calling it worse makes it pretty hard to take your stances on Super seriously when it you are obviously scratching at the bottom of the barrel to have things to complain about. Not mention how is Goku regressed by this at all? He wasn't exactly teaching A+ students mathematics in Dragon Ball Z now was he? And Goku obviously can construct sentences he was under pressure to talk formally and messed up, simple as that. Yet you over analysing this.

[Lord Frieza]

Also to get onto Goku talking like an idiot when asked to talk formally to Beerus.

Funimation did the same thing in the BoG's movie. Since Eng Goku speaks fairly normally (no hick accent or manner) they had to do something to make make up for a jock that simply would not translate well.

[dragonballgeek]

Let me first preface this by saying I am NOT a fan of Super at all. Primarily due to the characterizations and lore changes. So if this causes you to dismiss what I say next, so be it.

I watched the Dub to simply get an idea on if I was being unfair to the Japanese Super subs, maybe I was missing something that didn't carry over well in subs and I needed to watch it in my native language to fully grasp it. It also appears they cleaned up the animation a bit, so I assume its based on the Bluray version. Other item of note is that I am watching it back to back with Kai, which I had already planned on doing regardless of Super airing. That being said, the characterization and even the pokemon-ish visuals are a bit jarring, jumping between the series. After watching the first episode of Super dub, I was in disbelief and literally went back and watched Super on crunchy roll scene for scene. I've written down important quotes and noted difference and its fairly stark... This will also serve as a review of the dub.

Goku !!! - How is it possible to make him 100x more idiotic and unlikable. I wasn't particularly pleased with Super Goku (sub), but Super Goku (dub) is a total moron who gets absolutely no respect at all from anyone!
I will ignore, how incredibly irresponsible they make Goku look with Goten in the field and destroying his livelihood throw training of the fact that Goten had to tell Goku to take the money. The more egregious issue was a very specific change Funimation made in the Dub. Mr. Satan trying to give Goku money and Goku refuses. In the original dub Goku says "How many 100,000 are in 100 Million?" I actually find this to be a perfectly acceptable question. Goku is no math whiz, but understands the concept that 100,000 is less than 100 million and that it is fractional. He understands 2nd grade concepts, Great! Now in the dub, and I couldn't believe this so I actually had to rewatch this and write it down. "How much is 100 million? Is that more than 100,000?" YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! This is first grade level understanding, the fact that Goku doesn't conceptually know and understand that one thousand is more than a million takes his idiocy to a whole new level.. To be honest I was taken aback but could have overlooked it if he wasnt being CONSISTENTLY portrayed like this in the dub...
When Goku is on King Kais planet, Goku is consistently ridiculed and called a moron, idiot, stupid, etc. Not just by King Kai but literally everyone.. Yes the sub did, but the degree to which Goku was portrayed as a joke was unbearable.
In the sub, Beerus comments multiple times on how strong Goku is, although not strong enough. In the dub, Beerus makes it seem like Goku is completely nothing at all. I guess this makes sense with the way power scaling eventually goes. I will just wait to see if the Beerus 10% line is still there or not. However this is nowhere near the worst of the exchange. The part that made me stop again was watching Goku interact with Beerus. In the sub, Goku casually interacts with Beerus, but seems to straighten up and show the appropriate levels of respect and speech towards Beerus. In the dub, Goku literally pulls a Homer Simpson. Goku awkwardly says " It is an honor for you to meet me sir." in nonsensical sentences and uses strange or made-up titles/honorifics. Its literally him behaving as a total and complete idiot. I really didn't even have issues with these parts in the sub and we haven't even gotten to the "forgetting senzu beans" and "never kissing" parts of the series yet. Further, the interactions with Beerus, the Gods, basically everyone, seem to show a total lack of respect for Goku at all. He is literally a super strong Homer Simpson.

I was going to make a bulleted list, issues that were present in the subs are all there so no real point rehashing it.
So how has the fandom reacted to this? First I will call them the "professional fans" These are the guess that are emotionally invested in its success, watch the ratings, count the stats, and offer alternative business plans for marketing and scheduling things such as the shows lineup or timeslot. You can see some of it here http://toonamifaithful.com/opinion-shou ... art-super/ and here http://www.toonamisquad.com/rebuttal-de ... r-toonami/.

Next are the more casual fans reactions. Contrary to popular belief, there are a large amount of people who were waiting to watch the dub. These people like funimation "Superman" Goku and Faulconer tracks. I'm of course going to post the negative ones because I that's primarily what I hone in on due to my bias. However its clear that those who want to watch the dub by and large have a dislike of Super Goku.


https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/5 ... _when_dbz/
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1346005

Can you name a kids show with a plot weaker than super? All I can think of Teen Titans Go. I mean power rangers has always had a weak plot but I can't think of anything in one of their episodes that was as stupid as Goku forgetting the seal to the jar, or trunks just magically being able to fight on the same level as Goku with absolutely no explanation.

I like loveable goof Goku who gets serious when he fights. Whichever one that is.

Also, Falconer all the way.

Funimation (Superman) Goku > DBZ Toriyama (likes fighting) Goku >>>>>>>>> DB Super (fucking moron) Goku

At least Vegeta is consistently the best character in all versions.

Never saw the sub for Z, but I always thought the selfish side of Goku still showed up on the dub. I liked the subtlety.

Going from that to the Super sub is crazy. Makes me wonder how any of his friends can stand him.

I also like that in the Dub of Z, that if characters can get to the point where they feel they have to call him out for being selfish, there's a little character development through shame, unlike the sub where it's like talking to a brick wall, and they need to threaten all of reality for a really dumb Goku action to get him to maybe finally learn his lesson.

So yes plenty of people prefer the Goku they like, calling him Superman is a little belittling to the character but he was certainly more of "superhero" and a role model than current Goku. Even watching Kai, Goku was held in high regard by everyone, while in Super he seems to be considered nothing more than a super strong idiot.

Also doesnt help when we have guys like this on the other side, if there is one way to make sure casuals don't like something its to be an elitist about it, but that's part of the fandoms problem and "canoncity"

I'm a purist and whenever I hear any positive talk about the dubs or music changes, I just block the user.

and of course casuals react to this.

That seems a little extreme, we're all fans of the same show after all, voice cast preferences and music preferences are just a side subject of that, seems odd to block talking to other people over that.

I wish we could talk about Dragon Ball without people shitting on dub fans. lol

Let people like what they like, no one here is factually correct.

Anyway, all this means nothing is we don't have ratings. See thread here. viewtopic.php?f=25&t=37072
These are the latest ratings. The thing that stands out to me is the 8PM primetime slot. Every other show on the list is indicated with an (r) rerun. So Super is running against reruns in the US for the prime slot.
Is Super doing bad, well no? Should it be doing better? Idk, but I would expect it to.

TIME PROGRAM HH Viewers (000) A1849 rating A1849 (000)
8:00 Dragon Ball Super 0.57 938 0.35 444
8:30 Samurai Jack (r) 0.40 634 0.24 308
9:00 American Dad (r) 0.45 702 0.30 390
9:30 Rick & Morty (r) 0.50 767 0.38 488
10:00 Rick & Morty (r) 0.56 842 0.43 554
10:30 Family Guy (r) 0.71 1063 0.48 616
11:00 Family Guy (r) 1427 0.64 825

====

TIME PROGRAM Viewers (000) A1849 rating A1849 (000)
11:30 Dragon Ball Super 1140 0.56 716
12:00a Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters 1003 0.49 634
12:30a JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure 769 0.37 480
1:00a Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn 618 0.31 401
1:30a Hunter X Hunter 625 0.33 424
2:00a Naruto: Shippuden 621 0.31 402
2:30a One Piece 525 0.27 342
3:00a Ghost in the Shell (r) 453 0.23 291

Anyway. The long and short of this is that Super as a show and particularly the dub version of it may not appeal to western audience and especially US audiences where they are used to "superhero" Goku. I fear the gulf may be too wide to reconcile, especially with the way the dub is portraying Goku as far less respected and intelligent than even his Japanese dub counterpart. If you have not watched the US dub on Toonami, I highly recommend you check it out to see what US audiences are seeing. What do you guys think of how the Dub will do with western audiences?

I can't stand people who complain about the English dub of dragon ball. I have no idea why you all have such a condescending attitude towards it like you're better than everyone else because you prefer the English voices over Japanese?

[TheMikado]

So no one feels that Goku not knowing that a million is more than a thousand is incredibly regressive and awful?? Or that Goku apparently lacks the intelligence to construct coherent sentences??

This is worse than the original Z funimation dub and everyone is just cool with that?

Lmao you are not serious are you? Wait you really are.... Yeah FUNi changed Goku's character dramatically ie I am speech but them making an innocuous line even more innocuous shame on them! This is a non comparison and the fact the you are calling it worse makes it pretty hard to take your stances on Super seriously when it you are obviously scratching at the bottom of the barrel to have things to complain about. Not mention how is Goku regressed by this at all? He wasn't exactly teaching A+ students mathematics in Dragon Ball Z now was he? And Goku obviously can construct sentences he was under pressure to talk formally and messed up, simple as that. Yet you over analysing this.

The probably is the direct comparison of the sub vs the dub. The intention was never to show Goku at this level of ineptitude. That's the point. This are EXAMPLES of the overarching way he is being portrayed. They are not the ONLY. I'm simply pointing out the most obvious where a change from the original Japanese portrayal was unnecessary. We complain about Goku's Frieza speech all the time as an example of a messed up dub, but he wasn't running these speeches constantly. This is different because Goku, in voice, tone, and inflection and with their choice of dubbing is being played up to be a stooge on a consistent basis. Again I implore people to watch the Toonami dubbed shows, it quickly becomes a pattern in the dub version.