Evidence to suggest this is Toriyama's last involvement in Super.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Let's get straight into it.

Evidence 1- Perhaps the least evidencey since there no proof of this but assuming that this is true. Toriyama wanted to quit after U6 arc, editorial gave him the idea of the Black arc, Toriyama probably couldn't think of anything to do post Black arc except this tournament, and if he wanted to dip after U6 arc was true then this last arc being another tournament could mean he might finish of here.

Evidence 2- Toyotaro, claims he is the chosen one and what better way to edge him closer to being Toriyama's successor then help design the GoD's. Yes there are a lot of designs to expect but I am sure most of us where expecting Toriyama to handle the GoD's and such, so the fact he his sharing work load with Toyo may suggest he is preparing him.

Evidence 3- Perhaps the biggest clue No comment- We got a comment from him for the U6 arc and the Black arc but not a single on from this, they made a big deal of this at Jump Festa, a comment from the creator was almost a certainty but nothing. Nothing in the magazines. Nothing on their website. Nothing from Toriyama, now this is incredibly suspicious. The reason why I think so is they're still trying to make Toriyama stay on board but if they publish Toriyama saying this is his last involvement that puts it in writing.

Evidence 4 - Stakes and tension- Now the U6 arc was incredibly safe however thing appear a lot different here, we already have big conflict with Goku and the gods and the fact everyone is fighting for survival. If you are going to go, may aswell go all out. The sense of this all feels like Toriyama's God Saga is coming to a close.

Evidence 5 This one is pretty low but still worth considering. Marketing- Toei seems to be going all out on this, from a new OP right down to the entire show feeling different, again if this is Toriyama's last involvement why not go all out and make this arc a big deal.

Plus there are other things like Toriyama saying he doesn't like EoZ cuz the designs are old so his opinion might not have changed and we can't play in this 10 yr sand box forever.

With all this considered for me I will say I am 80% confident he ends his involvement here. About you guys how you feeling?

[TheMikado]

More and more Toei stuff is creeping in.
I think that Toriyama and Toei have very different views of the franchise. Toriyama seems to cater to the audience that enjoyed the original Dragonball, while Toei seems hell bent on grabbing international market cash.
They are two different portrayals of the same characters but too different to coincide. Both probably want out at this point. Remember BoGs was already written before Toriyama's involvement and Toei took a very dark and serious approach to it. Toei probably wants his name on it, but none of the input, where are Toriyama probably would like to be involved but doesn't want his name on some of the stuff they're cooking up.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I believe they will end Super, rewind time and start another series immediately following without Toriyama. I do believe Toriyama is on his way out and has been for a while, but I doubt he will allow them to continue the Super series with his name on it. Toei will need to create a brand new series and they may want to start fresh without Toriyama's input. Who knows. The logistics of this is that, Toriyama and Toei both want out and will have to dissolve the Super anime as it stands now in order to move forward. Super cannot exist without Toriyama's involvement. If it did, my opinion is that they would make it into a new a separate series.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

More and more Toei stuff is creeping in.
I think that Toriyama and Toei have very different views of the franchise. Toriyama seems to cater to the audience that enjoyed the original Dragonball, while Toei seems hell bent on grabbing international market cash.
They are two different portrayals of the same characters but too different to coincide. Both probably want out at this point. Remember BoGs was already written before Toriyama's involvement and Toei took a very dark and serious approach to it. Toei probably wants his name on it, but none of the input, where are Toriyama probably would like to be involved but doesn't want his name on some of the stuff they're cooking up.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I believe they will end Super, rewind time and start another series immediately following without Toriyama. I do believe Toriyama is on his way out and has been for a while, but I doubt he will allow them to continue the Super series with his name on it. Toei will need to create a brand new series and they may want to start fresh without Toriyama's input. Who knows. The logistics of this is that, Toriyama and Toei both want out and will have to dissolve the Super anime as it stands now in order to move forward. Super cannot exist without Toriyama's involvement. If it did, my opinion is that they would make it into a new a separate series.

Don't think Toriyama has a say whether Toei continue or not. I think Toriyama will leave things linked to EoZ and tell Toei do what you want the floor is yours.

[TheMikado]

I guess we will find out soon, but Toriyama has never been one to mix his "canon" with "Toei canon" if he has his name on a product. I can't see why he would start now.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I guess we will find out soon, but Toriyama has never been one to mix his "canon" with "Toei canon" if he has his name on a product. I can't see why he would start now.

Toei have been doing the retellings and their own stuff in Super it is already mixed.

[gohan_black]

the next step after super is over is to make a prequel series that focusing about the sayians from the moment they landed on the tuffle planet and trough their wars. king vegeta would be the main charecter along with bardock later on.

[ArchedThunder]

I doubt this is the last arc with his involvement, but I could totally see him moving to more of an advisory role in the near future.

[Kishido]

The next stuff is a spin off about 17

[Ki Breaker]

The next stuff is a spin off about 17

With roughly one episode..

[Kishido]

The next stuff is a spin off about 17

With roughly one episode..

And it will be still better than the rest

[Ki Breaker]

The next stuff is a spin off about 17

With roughly one episode..

And it will be still better than the rest

That's obvious with it being occupied with goku searching for 17 the first 22 mins

[Kishido]

With roughly one episode..

And it will be still better than the rest

That's obvious with it being occupied with goku searching for 17 the first 22 mins

I was talking about a whole series about Universe Ranger #17

[ChronoTwigger]

And it will be still better than the rest

That's obvious with it being occupied with goku searching for 17 the first 22 mins

I was talking about a whole series about Universe Ranger #17

122 episodes of an overpowered android asking documents to tourists.

[emperior]

Looks like I'm not the one who noticed. It's also probable Toyotaro will take on, possibly even going weekly with his manga, after this arc. Maybe Toriyama will just provide him with very, very basic ideas, but the story will be mainly written by Toyotaro.

As for the current arc we will have to wait a little before being able to tell how involved Toriyama is, and even then, if the manga turns out to be exactly the same as the anime, we still won't know whether it will be because of a thick outline from Toriyama, or because of Toyo and Toei following a plot written by Toyotaro based on a few plot lines from Toriyama, in order to not make both the anime and manga's story completely different one from another.

I really, really hope Toriyama wrote a very thick outline for this arc and that Toyotaro's role for this arc is just suggesting ideas and handling the design of the less important characters.

[sintzu]

Another thing you might want to use is how different the manga and anime are for the Zamasu arc.

The manga (which follows his outline really close) is a LOT shorter than the anime so not only is he working with Toyotaru but it seems like he might be leaving a lot up to Toei as well.

I guess we'll not only find out weather or not this is his last arc but just how much is in his outline compared to what Toei's doing.

I don't expect him to stay on forever but for him to leave now seems way to soon compared to how long we waited for him to come back so hopefully he'll stay involved somehow.

[ChronoTwigger]

After deep thoughts...
Toriyama signature surely is a badge of "canonical quality", and the equation is usually
Tori= good (or anyway bad but canonical so implicitly "correct")
Toei=bad (filler! Too hyper! WTF they're doing??)

But after that DB revival, I'm sure Toei is about to make the series a different thing.
Of course this need to be done gradually.
No one at DB or DBZ times could have even remotely accepted someone else as DB manga artist.
The new generation is now accustomed to "canon DB CAN be done by other people."
In the future, I'm thinking something like "Dragon Ball, from the original concept of Akira Toriyama", and a free-for-all of directors and mangaka.
This happened to Star Wars, too.

As this being the last involvement in Super, I neglect the idea. Too sudden and silent. I think that, if this doesn't end the serie (the opening hint no more than this tournament, so who know?), Toriyama need a last endorsement. A firmly declared goodbye.
Without that (even on the show, something like a 'thank you!' from Tori himself) old fan will feel cheated. While, with that last endorsement, they surely will have a feel, and follow the show to honor The Good Master That Loved Us So Much.

[Kishido]

That's obvious with it being occupied with goku searching for 17 the first 22 mins

I was talking about a whole series about Universe Ranger #17

122 episodes of an overpowered android asking documents to tourists.

You have no fantasy

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

I came into this thread thinking OP was crazy. I read his post, and thought he was crazy. I saw everyone's responses, and now I'm worried. Toei animated Dragon Ball from the beginning, had their people on it, worked with Toriyama for designs and help with things, and then promptly got rid of everyone who worked on DB and DBZ to make GT, which took everything great about DBZ*** and trashed it. They had their chance, and they showed the world that they don't know a damn thing about why people like the franchise so much.

*** The franchise is known for good overpowering evil, enemies becoming friends, working/training hard and achieving your goals, small people/aliens being extremely powerful (Vegeta, Freeza?, Kid Buu, Zen-Oh) while big people/aliens are sometimes weak, and butt kicking. Toei couldn't remember ANY of that. Heck, BoG before Toriyama had Beerus as a lizard who was responsible for infecting the Saiyans and making them evil. I feel that with that much of a difference, they probably had a draft/had the idea that Goku would beat Beerus in the film. That is pure speculation on my part, but Toei has shown they know nothing about what makes this series great.

I am scared. Very scared.

EDIT: OP said that "Toriyama wanted to quit after U6 arc." Wasn't this because of problems with Toei, and not because of a lack of interest or anything?

[sintzu]

That is pure speculation on my part, but Toei has shown they know nothing about what makes this series great.

EDIT: OP said that "Toriyama wanted to quit after U6 arc." Wasn't this because of problems with Toei, and not because of a lack of interest or anything?

Even with them not knowing what they're doing, I think Toriyama has put the franchise in a place where no matter how bad it gets, it'll still be a very big financial hit. If he steps down this early then i'll honestly say he shouldn't have come back in the first place. BOG was a great movie but if he couldn't keep up then he should've just left it at that instead of turning the franchise into a bigger cash cow than it already was. I love this franchise and I do think there are other people who can write good stories so when he steps down and they announce who's replacing him, I'll give it a fair shot but it's hard to not think that they're not going to completely mess it up.

I think it was a bit of both. look at how much Toei added to the Black arc, look how many destroyers Toyotaru designed compared to him, these 2 examples show that he may indeed be at the end of the road.

[DBZ_Lee]

I do believe that Toriyama's involvement has stayed the same, right from the start, up to now.
Toyotaro drawing more fighters for the upcoming Arc doesn't surprise me, as up to now, we haven't had such a huge cast of new characters - just a handful.
This being said, it would've been a lot of work just for Toriyama alone.

We know he provides a draft, and the blanks are filled in by Toei/Toyotaro.
Honestly, so long as he is able to pick up a pencil, I can't see him ever walking away entirely, due to a comment he made in the Super History book:

Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime, so it seems that DB has grown on me much that I can't leave it alone.

If he steps down this early then i'll honestly say he shouldn't have come back in the first place.

Totally agree with this. Though I will re-iterate by saying I can't see him going completely, if he were to cut back on anything, it would likely be designs.
Toei have no clue as to how to make DB great without his counsel.
GT was 20 years ago, but it still stands out as Toei's solo attempt at continuing the franchise, and has been much maligned ever since.

I can't see him leaving, but if he does, then we will have to wait it out to see what Toei do.

With regards to the new opening, I totally see what people are saying.
It is all centred around the current Arc, sure, but when you think about it, they had to do that really.
The 1st opening was made with the BoG Arc, "F" and U6 Arcs in mind.
All 3 were known before production started. Then when the Future Trunks Arc came along, they tweaked it again.

This Arc has totally changed the narrative for the moment - in order for them to create a generic opening would be to have them use characters that wouldn't have any real influence in this Arc.
They won't be on earth, and it will have a different feel to it.
They change ED regularly, so they will change this one again now that the schedule isn't as crazy as it was from the start.

I can see why people would expect a generic opening again, but when they created this new opening, they did so not knowing what they could leave in and tweak so-to-speak.
They could have made an open one, and have them fighting randoms designed by Toei (which wouldn't be tied into the narrative at all) because they want to use it for the next 70-odd episodes, but there are so many characters in this new arc that having a generic opening would be a little odd.

Either way, regardless of what I think, I am simply saying this new OP isn't a big issue, and they will likely change it again after this Arc is over.
1st one was made knowing it would cover at least 3 Arcs, this one was made with one Arc in mind.