My Greatest Concern Regarding DBS (the REAL issue)

[Wezenheim]

It's absolutely 100% fine to criticize Super's animation (I like to do it a lot!) but I also wish people approached this topic with a level head and clearer understanding. The anime industry IS a different place, by the way. Horrible production issues and corner cutting are hardly exclusive to Toei or even long-running anime. Yuri on Ice is a good example of a show that ran into a ton of issues despite only being 12 episodes long.

Ajay and Ciper said all that needed to be said on the first page (posts that have seemingly gone ignored by a few folks), but I just want to add that explaining something is not the same as making an excuse for it. There's been a persistent and dangerous trend of people covering their ears about things like this since Super began and repeating the same misconceptions over and over (budget, "lack of respect," etc). Super's animation often is mediocre. Absolutely, no doubt whatsoever! But the animators themselves aren't being lazy. Drawings on a piece of paper don't magically look better by throwing money at them. A piece of animation being modern doesn't mean it can't look worse than a piece of animation decades old. You can't just suddenly fix a show's production by willing more time and animators that don't exist into reality. There's a reason why things are the way they are, that's all that people are trying to say.

[Simere]

Also, for some reason people love rushing to Toei's defense as to why Super looks like garbage and make excuses concerning the production/budget/schedule but to be honest I simply don't give a fuck.

Yeah, that's kind of how I feel at times. I really could care less for all the excuses. I don't want to hear them and they don't even make sense to begin with. They were able to put out a consistently good (not great, not amazing, but good) product in the past in Z every week, and now we're lucky to get some decent Z quality art and animation once every two months (well, not now, but before this arc started). Then you'll hear the excuse of "Well the anime industry has changed a lot since then!" but the reality is that Toei has changed a lot since then, almost every other company has only gotten better.

They're explanations, not excuses. No one here is telling you to be happy with what Super does. But you aren't just unhappy, you want to try to pose yourself as someone who understands why things are wrong, and your diagnosis is uninformed and absurd. The actual explanations are no less critical of Toei just because they're not as snappy as "They don't try hard enough".

[Yomi]

I don't even know why you're giving the Vegito vs Zamasu fight so much praise

I'm saying it looks better than the 2 scenes he posted. That's it. There's nothing else to garner from my comment.

[Miracles]

Can you compare any other anime fight scene with Vegetto vs Zamasu?

Woah now, the fight scene was good, but you are giving it WAY too much praise. There are tons of incredible fight scenes from different animes that completely trump that scene. One Punch Man in particular has a fight every single episode I believe, and every single one of those fight scenes are 100x better than the Vegetto vs Zamasu scene. Obviously One Punch Man is given a lot more time to animate than Super is, but the point still stands.

Comparing actual choreography, camera angles and fluidity with one punch man's best; in Boros vs Saitama. Which was nothing but a well animated light show.
One Punch man has good animation; IE drawn really well. But the way fights are done, TOEI animates better.

I think DBS has animation that is on point with and better than Z in some cases. Z was it's worst during the Freeza arc and the strongest during the Buu arc and DBS is following a similar path with this current arc, it is the most consistent good looking one we have had so far.

At this point I am astounded that animation in DBS is a still complaint.

Oh, it's natural that TOEI will have some animation on point or better than Z with Super today.
However the quality was just better with Dragonball Z anime consistenlty. Especially overall with score etc.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

But those are all just excuses. Things have gotten better, hell things are pretty damn good with this arc. Again the question is, why did it take so long? Sure they started off shitty and rushed, but why did it take a whopping two years to fix these problems? It should not have taken this long. I'm not blaming the animators for being lazy or half-assing it, I'm blaming TOEI as a whole for letting this shit go on for so long.

It's not just an excuse though. Lack of time isn't " just an excuse". It's just the reality of the situation. They aren't letting it go on for this long because anyone can see that every arc is an improvement over the last. At least after the Ressuresction F arc. If Super was on hold for 2 years, then you'd have a point. But it's been going constantly for 2 years with little breaks. That isn't enough time to fix something that needs months of time WITHOUT it being on air.

In that case then Toei should have 2 teams, one for weeks 1&3 of the month another for 2&4. Toei's has the money and Super makes it and then some so they can afford it. If they're already doing that then they should add a 3rd or even 4th team, whatever it takes to get things where they need to be.

You don't think if that were an option they would? Like I asked, do you think they WANT to be in a shitty situation? That would just be throwing money at the problem. Which isn't the problem. It's time. They need time to make Super to the best of their abilities, and with the shitty schedule they have there aren't many people who WANT to work on it because it's just too much. Plus Super isn't Toei's only project. There isn't an infinite amount of staff to use even if everyone was willing to work on it.

Would it have taken so much time to have someone turn their head and look at Goku ? I'm not expecting movie quality animation but small things like head turning and blinking eyes would go a long way to make things look more natural.

Maybe. We don't know the situation behind this, but since the entire arc was really shitty, then the production was probably already at it's worst, or they just chose to sacrifice it to do better with the future arc. But, Again, it's not the lack of movement that's the problem in this scene. Goku could have moved his head and did a little dance for all it mattered, it's still would have just been a bad shot and looked like crap.

These all sound like excuses to me.

Okay PeanutSaiyan I am not a fan of how your commenting and just brushing things off with one line responses and derogatory comments such "fanboyism is strong", nobody is making "excuses" people are not "blind fanboys" because they're showing some defence on Toei's side, it seems you are here with a head strong opinion
and refuse to budge which kind of defeats the whole purpose of discussion, don't you think? Look I was very critical of the animation when Super started for example I absolutely hated Yashima as a supervisor but when a couple of folks discussed why he actually is important to the show I garnered respect for him, then when I learned of how things where I became less and less critical of it, I am not saying you have to do the same but at least acknowledge what people are telling you and not brush it off so easily as "excuses" or "blind fanboyism".

Oh, it's natural that TOEI will have some animation on point or better than Z with Super today.
However the quality was just better with Dragonball Z anime consistenlty. Especially overall with score etc.

I don't disagree with that, Z on the whole is a better product than Super overall, so far at least. If Super continues this upward spiral who knows what it would be like in say two years time.

[Asura]

Also, for some reason people love rushing to Toei's defense as to why Super looks like garbage and make excuses concerning the production/budget/schedule but to be honest I simply don't give a fuck.

Yeah, that's kind of how I feel at times. I really could care less for all the excuses. I don't want to hear them and they don't even make sense to begin with. They were able to put out a consistently good (not great, not amazing, but good) product in the past in Z every week, and now we're lucky to get some decent Z quality art and animation once every two months (well, not now, but before this arc started). Then you'll hear the excuse of "Well the anime industry has changed a lot since then!" but the reality is that Toei has changed a lot since then, almost every other company has only gotten better.

But you aren't just unhappy, you want to try to pose yourself as someone who understands why things are wrong, and your diagnosis is uninformed and absurd. The actual explanations are no less critical of Toei just because they're not as snappy as "They don't try hard enough".

I'm not posing myself as someone who understands why things are wrong, that's why I've been constantly asking the question over and over again in this thread of why? If I thought I understood all of this I wouldn't be asking this question. My diagnosis can't be uninformed and absurd either because I have no diagnosis. But I understand what I can see, and what I can see is that Dragon Ball Z looks consistently better than Dragon Ball Super. I can see that they have been getting slowly better and better since they started, but the quality of the Universe Survival Arc is a huge leap from everything that's come before it so far. It's not just something that's little increments every arc, this one was a big leap. It's something I can look at and be (almost) completely happy with when I compare it to Z.

Some people can keep making excuses, or explanations, or whatever you want to call them, but here's why I have a problem with most of those excuses/explanations, they just don't make much sense when you compare them to Z. Let's pretend we're in 2015 or 2016 for a moment before this arc started and compared it to Z from the 90s. What has changed from Z to Super that has caused the quality to not only dip at the start, but only barely get better as the series has progressed? Z was on the same schedule correct? Episodes once a week, not a seasonal anime, so what gives? I always see people blame the anime industry as if that's how things work nowadays, but so then why are there other companies out there that can still perform as well as Z did back then? (which is to say, pretty average but still nice looking. There's nothing usually incredible about Z's animation, but it's consistently good and that's what matters). The problem isn't the animators. They aren't lazy, they aren't half-assing it, the problem is clearly to do with TOEI itself. That's the only diagnosis I can even guess at. Because if they're not responsible, who the hell is? The question I keep asking though is why has it taken this long for TOEI to fix these issues? If other companies can do it, why can't TOEI as well?

Comparing actual choreography, camera angles and fluidity with one punch man's best; in Boros vs Saitama. Which was nothing but a well animated light show.
One Punch man has good animation; IE drawn really well. But the way fights are done, TOEI animates better.

You've gotta be crazy to insinuate that TOEI animates better than Mad House does. There's a reason why Mad House is essentially a meme, and it's not because they're bad. Again, you can't compare a show like Super which is forced to pump out an episode every week with a show like OPM that has a very small amount of episodes, and lots of time to animate them. You'd have to have the most godlike animators in existence all crammed into one studio to be able to create something that looks as good as OPM that airs weekly with no breaks. Even then I don't think you'd be able to do it. TOEI definitely does not fit that description though, and the Vegetto vs Zamasu fight does not even come close to the animation in the Saitama vs Boros fight (which I don't think is One Punch Man's best by the way, but it's pretty good)

[Zagacious]

Okay PeanutSaiyan I am not a fan of how your commenting and just brushing things off with one line responses and derogatory comments such "fanboyism is strong", nobody is making "excuses" people are not "blind fanboys" because they're showing some defence on Toei's side, it seems you are here with a head strong opinion
and refuse to budge which kind of defeats the whole purpose of discussion, don't you think? Look I was very critical of the animation when Super started for example I absolutely hated Yashima as a supervisor but when a couple of folks discussed why he actually is important to the show I garnered respect for him, then when I learned of how things where I became less and less critical of it, I am not saying you have to do the same but at least acknowledge what people are telling you and not brush it off so easily as "excuses" or "blind fanboyism".

Oh, it's natural that TOEI will have some animation on point or better than Z with Super today.
However the quality was just better with Dragonball Z anime consistenlty. Especially overall with score etc.

I don't disagree with that, Z on the whole is a better product than Super overall, so far at least. If Super continues this upward spiral who knows what it would be like in say two years time.

As difficult as it is to objectively criticize art, there is a clear increase in quality in the last 5-8 episodes that is drastically different from the episodes before it, that not even acknowledging that at all and just saying "The last 50 episodes looked great" is pretty much the definition of fanboyism.

Personally, I don't really care about the quality, I had just accepted it after a while. Although some scenes do look really odd and stiff, plastic looking, it can kind of ruin the atmosphere, which happened a lot in early DBS and Black Goku arc, most of which I can ignore, but it's obviously way better now after 88-90ish. It's kind of jarring to look back at how different in looks though at the most recent ones in comparison to the old stuff or even the Black Goku arc.

The early DBS was low enough quality that I actually thought it was some sort of fan fiction before I heard it was official, and I've heard of many people who thought the same thing. Sadly, some episodes of the Black Goku arc were just as bad. The only reason it matters to me is because the quality will randomly change quality from being incredible to looking like a bad fan fiction drawing. If it was just consistently bad I would prefer that over the constant changing of quality. People are just going to be even angrier about it if the quality of recent episodes is only temporary. Again, it's not the quality that matters as much to me, as much as having consistent quality.

[Miracles]

I don't disagree with that, Z on the whole is a better product than Super overall, so far at least. If Super continues this upward spiral who knows what it would be like in say two years time.

Yep. Super has been really good as of late animation wise.

You've gotta be crazy to insinuate that TOEI animates better than Mad House does. There's a reason why Mad House is essentially a meme, and it's not because they're bad. Again, you can't compare a show like Super which is forced to pump out an episode every week with a show like OPM that has a very small amount of episodes, and lots of time to animate them. You'd have to have the most godlike animators in existence all crammed into one studio to be able to create something that looks as good as OPM that airs weekly with no breaks. Even then I don't think you'd be able to do it. TOEI definitely does not fit that description though, and the Vegetto vs Zamasu fight does not even come close to the animation in the Saitama vs Boros fight (which I don't think is One Punch Man's best by the way, but it's pretty good)

When it comes to battles, TOEI's sound effects, fluidity, animation, feeling, movement has greater impact on the audience.
Madhouse sound effects are meh, the art is top quality tho but not like TOEI. Look at some of the One Piece movies, wow!

[LowRyder2005]

Regarding Super, the truth it has basically been offering some bits which may fall into the "good animation" category starting from this very arc.
For the most part, however, it's still lackluster, and will get ugly (as in "off-model", "clunky") pretty often in the course of any given episode you may think of. The blatantly off-model character shots are in my eyes unforgivable - no pun intended - and are usually what makes me lose focus on the episode. Just watched ep. 96 and... yep, I bet most of you can relate.

If some are talking about the fact it's supposedly getting "really good", it's probably just because you're indirectly setting the standard as what Super has offered in since the beginning - which would be in fact be "extremely low standards", not the norm. If you're hungry, even sliced bread will be "the best meal ever".

I don't disagree with that, Z on the whole is a better product than Super overall, so far at least. If Super continues this upward spiral who knows what it would be like in say two years time.

Yep. Super has been really good as of late animation wise.

You've gotta be crazy to insinuate that TOEI animates better than Mad House does. There's a reason why Mad House is essentially a meme, and it's not because they're bad. Again, you can't compare a show like Super which is forced to pump out an episode every week with a show like OPM that has a very small amount of episodes, and lots of time to animate them. You'd have to have the most godlike animators in existence all crammed into one studio to be able to create something that looks as good as OPM that airs weekly with no breaks. Even then I don't think you'd be able to do it. TOEI definitely does not fit that description though, and the Vegetto vs Zamasu fight does not even come close to the animation in the Saitama vs Boros fight (which I don't think is One Punch Man's best by the way, but it's pretty good)

When it comes to battles, TOEI's sound effects, fluidity, animation, feeling, movement has greater impact on the audience.
Madhouse sound effects are meh, the art is top quality tho but not like TOEI. Look at some of the One Piece movies, wow!

Uh, yep, I'll absolutely have to second Asura's "you gotta be crazy", especially for the first period. Is it supposed to mean that if we made, say, a poll you honestly think the majority would agree Toei is better in those departments? Compared to One Punch Man? Eh, if you want, I'd be all up for betting any sum you want.
The One Piece movies were really good... then again, they have the budget and the production times of movies. I also don't comprehend this talk as if Vegito vs. Zamas was all the rage, it was basically acceptable animation-wise for the most part, but are we really talking as if it was the cream of the crop of fighting scenes in anime?
Are you sure it isn't because you had the super-epic character showdown feel? I mean, for one, some of the more recent skirmishes (say Freeza vs. alien assassins) already appear more polished than the fight you mentioned. But if Zamas vs. Vegito is "incredibly well-done for today's standards", you may as well think something like Ufotable's Fate/stay night (2014) was crafted by some alien technology...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEJNm03fYZE

What's also pretty darn strange is that you mention One Piece movies in the same phrase. So... yeah.

[Lord Beerus]

The post from Ajay really should have been the open and shut case for this topic. Dragon Ball Super is certainly a show with deep issues on a production scale, but the cause of these problems are much more complex than people really think.

[precita]

Does it really matter? The first two arcs do look terrible in Super, but at least we have the two movies to watch to see those stories in good animation. Some of the early/mid fillers or slice of life episodes also don't look too bad since there wasn't much action in them.

The Champa tournament had terrible animation at the start with Botamo/Goku and all the Frost fights, but picked up around Vegeta/Magnetta, Vegeta/Cabba, and Goku/Hit. Most of the Zamasu arc looked fine and whatever off model shots it had were mostly during the scenes where the characters were just standing around talking.

People are talking as if Super still looks like the Return of F episodes or something. It's NEVER looked that bad again since that arc ended.

[JazzMazz]

To add to the list, YuYu Hakusho has a lot of fights that trump Vegetto vs Zamasu as well. Especially scenes like this or this.

Really? Do you really think so? I don't think these scenes top Vegito vs Zamasu, but I do know some Yu Yu Hakusho Scenes that do. Like Hiei vs Zeru
or maybe Yusuke vs Yomi <- maybe I'm biased because I really love Yomi. Heck even Yusuke vs Sensui when he transforms into Mazoku looks better.

I'm just saying these cuts in particular don't really convince me that it's better than Vegito vs Zamasu.

I don't even know why you're giving the Vegito vs Zamasu fight so much praise in the first place. The fight choreography is weak and the scene really fails to display any sort of sense of power from what are supposed to be 2 near omnipotent beings in the Dragonball universe, and stylistically it was pretty cookie cutter type of stuff. It's pretty weak and I hate to pull the "it's better in Z" card but there are a few fights in Z that easily trump Vegito vs Zamasu. It just kind of looks pretty and that's even more highlighted by the fact that the series looks like shit for the most part.

Also, for some reason people love rushing to Toei's defense as to why Super looks like garbage and make excuses concerning the production/budget/schedule but to be honest I simply don't give a fuck. If anything it's more evidence that Toei is cutting more corners which speaks volumes about where they stand with the franchise.

To clear something up, when people say that Vegetto vs Zamasu is well animated, they are almost always refering to this particular scene by Naotoshi Shida, everything else is pretty underwhelming.[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
The scene, though not the greatest thing ever, definitely displays the scale and sheer overwhelming power of the characters effectively. Surpisingly enough, I wouldn't even call it the best animated cut from Super, that would probably go to this scene.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
As for Yu Yu Hakusho scenes which are better than these, I would go with this amazing scene from the doctor fight.[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

EDIT: As for how I feel about Super right now, it's definitely in a better state. However, that doesn't mean I think it's great, most episodes are usually polished and might even contain a great scene, but it can still look pretty ugly. Say for example 96, where we had this great fight scene in the beginning, a decently polished first half and a pretty bad second.

Super is always going to half one or two shots in an episode which look poorly drawn, however if it's between loads of good stuff, I think I can more than forgive one or two odd faces here and there(as long as they don't stay on-screen for a noticeable period of time).

[dbs fanboy]

I know that this has already been done, but for the love of god people; just watch this damn video https://youtu.be/-hHM-8QtmUE
and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjXt4Fg9664.

There's an animation tread, check it out, you can also follow the sakuga blog, you can follow ajay on twitter. Seriosuly it's been two years and this has been discussed like, a lot.
So stop repeating the same complaints and search for the answers.

Also, haha "blind fanboyism is strong" PeaunutSaiyan nobody is going to take you seriously if you act like this.

[Tsufuru]

Really? Do you really think so? I don't think these scenes top Vegito vs Zamasu, but I do know some Yu Yu Hakusho Scenes that do. Like Hiei vs Zeru
or maybe Yusuke vs Yomi <- maybe I'm biased because I really love Yomi. Heck even Yusuke vs Sensui when he transforms into Mazoku looks better.

I'm just saying these cuts in particular don't really convince me that it's better than Vegito vs Zamasu.

Yeah. Yeah, I really do think so.

Like you said, there are better cuts than the ones I posted, but those are just the bare minimum. Some of the really good ones in the show actually are 100x better than the Vegetto vs Zamasu fight, just like someone stated earlier.

pls just stop.

[Lord Beerus]

Does it really matter? The first two arcs do look terrible in Super, but at least we have the two movies to watch to see those stories in good animation. Some of the early/mid fillers or slice of life episodes also don't look too bad since there wasn't much action in them.

The Champa tournament had terrible animation at the start with Botamo/Goku and all the Frost fights, but picked up around Vegeta/Magnetta, Vegeta/Cabba, and Goku/Hit. Most of the Zamasu arc looked fine and whatever off model shots it had were mostly during the scenes where the characters were just standing around talking.

People are talking as if Super still looks like the Return of F episodes or something. It's NEVER looked that bad again since that arc ended.

You know, I've been watching the Super dub and to be honest, the BOG arc, outside of some parts of Episode 5, is actually quite solid in the art and animation department. Episodes 2, 4, 11, 13, and 14 in particular look really good from start to finish. Hell, even some of the ROF arc episodes look alright. It's just from Episodes 22 to 26 that shit goes south visually. But even then, Episode 26 gave us some spectacular cuts of animation from Tate in the first half of that episode that really rival what we get in the movie.

[Asura]

I don't understand why people keep posting as if we're all uneducated plebians that are bitching about something we know nothing about while we make fools of ourselves. I've read the threads, I've seen the videos, and they literally all say the exact same shit I've been saying here, so why does it seem like myself and others are getting accused of being uninformed?

People say it's deeper than just production issues, deeper than just TOEI. Yet every video and thread I've seen pins TOEI for the problems. Hell, like I said before, who else could you even blame? Which goes back to the OP video in which he blames TOEI (although I believe he also mentions something about hiring half-ass lazy animators or something which he's totally wrong about, but pinning the blame on TOEI for Super's problems is accurate). The video which multiple people here are shitting on for being uninformed, despite the fact that it reaches some of the exact same conclusions that you all do.

People hailing this as a discussion that needs to end and never be brought up again is exactly the problem here. It's not so much of a problem anymore with this arc, but before you'd just have people apologizing and making excuses for it non-stop. Again, we did not care for the excuses, we did not care for the explanations. We simply wanted a good product that there was already precedence for in Z. It's not just the fact that Super looked bad, it was the fact that Super looked bad and a show 20 years ago that predated it looked far superior. So people can make all the excuses they want as to why Super started so horribly, but I've still yet to hear from anybody why we only got a consistent jump in art and quality in this arc and not any of the others. I can hear explanations all day long about how TOEI screwed the pooch on Super, but before this arc I wouldn't even call them explanations, but more like excuses. People started to use the phrase "Super apologists" because that's honestly what it was. People weren't just explaining why things looked bad, they were defending it and making excuses for it too. I'm very glad we're past those days now, but it still very much bothers me to hear people still trying to excuse and defend TOEI's mistakes in the past.

But I don't care about why they made these mistakes in the first place, I care about why they continued to make these mistakes for so long. People say these mistakes only lasted until the Champa arc or the FT arc, but that's just dead wrong. There were some nice looking episodes in those arcs, but also some really, really shitty looking ones. Just like that OP video says, people should not be getting excited about a good looking episode every now and then as if that's somehow justification that things were good back then.

[Bansho64]

pls just stop.

Nah, you're good. It'd be better if you could actually make a point against what I said instead of this ^_^

[Miracles]

Uh, yep, I'll absolutely have to second Asura's "you gotta be crazy", especially for the first period. Is it supposed to mean that if we made, say, a poll you honestly think the majority would agree Toei is better in those departments? Compared to One Punch Man? Eh, if you want, I'd be all up for betting any sum you want.
The One Piece movies were really good... then again, they have the budget and the production times of movies. I also don't comprehend this talk as if Vegito vs. Zamas was all the rage, it was basically acceptable animation-wise for the most part, but are we really talking as if it was the cream of the crop of fighting scenes in anime?
Are you sure it isn't because you had the super-epic character showdown feel? I mean, for one, some of the more recent skirmishes (say Freeza vs. alien assassins) already appear more polished than the fight you mentioned. But if Zamas vs. Vegito is "incredibly well-done for today's standards", you may as well think something like Ufotable's Fate/stay night (2014) was crafted by some alien technology...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEJNm03fYZE

What's also pretty darn strange is that you mention One Piece movies in the same phrase. So... yeah.

I know Fate stay night is top tier animation. However TOEI's fluidity, sound effects, score and their depiction of fights with choreography in their animation is just that good.
Dragonball Z original is just better than what's out there today. TOEI did that for Dragonball. Has anyone seen Smoker vs Vergo from One Piece too? Just having good visuals doesn't make the animation.

[Simere]

I don't understand why people keep posting as if we're all uneducated plebians that are bitching about something we know nothing about while we make fools of ourselves. I've read the threads, I've seen the videos, and they literally all say the exact same shit I've been saying here, so why does it seem like myself and others are getting accused of being uninformed?

You said you agreed with the guy in the OP's video, and the assessment that guy made was: the animators are lazy, they're second rate, and they don't have enough passion. That's why.

So people can make all the excuses they want as to why Super started so horribly, but I've still yet to hear from anybody why we only got a consistent jump in art and quality in this arc and not any of the others.

Well, I don't know why don't you hear it. You just said it. It's not a small mistake to start horribly. Once you make that mistake it can't be turned on a dime to be fixed. All the practicable solutions to buy back the time you lost take time themselves. They aren't entirely palatable, either: reusing animation, recap episodes and actionless filler.

[Asura]

Uh, yep, I'll absolutely have to second Asura's "you gotta be crazy", especially for the first period. Is it supposed to mean that if we made, say, a poll you honestly think the majority would agree Toei is better in those departments? Compared to One Punch Man? Eh, if you want, I'd be all up for betting any sum you want.
The One Piece movies were really good... then again, they have the budget and the production times of movies. I also don't comprehend this talk as if Vegito vs. Zamas was all the rage, it was basically acceptable animation-wise for the most part, but are we really talking as if it was the cream of the crop of fighting scenes in anime?
Are you sure it isn't because you had the super-epic character showdown feel? I mean, for one, some of the more recent skirmishes (say Freeza vs. alien assassins) already appear more polished than the fight you mentioned. But if Zamas vs. Vegito is "incredibly well-done for today's standards", you may as well think something like Ufotable's Fate/stay night (2014) was crafted by some alien technology...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEJNm03fYZE

What's also pretty darn strange is that you mention One Piece movies in the same phrase. So... yeah.

I know Fate stay night is top tier animation. However TOEI's fluidity, sound effects, score and their depiction of fights with choreography in their animation is just that good.
Dragonball Z original is just better than what's out there today. TOEI did that for Dragonball. Has anyone seen Smoker vs Vergo from One Piece too? Just having good art doesn't make the animation.

No offense dude but you are INCREDIBLY blinded by nostalgia. You seem to be under the impression that DBZ has the best animation out of any anime in existence for some reason.

I don't understand why people keep posting as if we're all uneducated plebians that are bitching about something we know nothing about while we make fools of ourselves. I've read the threads, I've seen the videos, and they literally all say the exact same shit I've been saying here, so why does it seem like myself and others are getting accused of being uninformed?

You said you agreed with the guy in the OP's video, and the assessment that guy made was: the animators are lazy, they're second rate, and they don't have enough passion. That's why.

And I do agree with him, his main message that is, that TOEI is responsible. If I agreed with him saying the animators are lazy, second rate, don't have enough passion, etc. then why have I never once said that in any of my posts? In fact I've literally been saying the exact opposite the entire time which is that I don't agree with those sentiments. His overall message is correct though, which is something everyone has ignored and lambasted for some odd reason despite the fact that it reaches the same conclusion you all do too. I'd ask you not to accuse me of things I've publicly disagreed with in this thread multiple times.