Kale or Broly - the worse motivation

[Shinda Forever]

Kale is a lot worse and she seems more mindless than Broly as well.

[BlueBasilisk]

Definitely Broly. The timeline established in his movie and the Bardock special shows that he couldn't have been more than a week old when Vegeta was destroyed. There's no way he should be able to remember Goku crying, being stabbed or any of that. It felt like and still feels like an excuse to shoehorn Goku into a plot that otherwise had nothing to do with him.

Kale is shown to have very low self-esteem and issues with self-loathing. Caulifla seems to be the one person who has total faith in her and Kale is set off by jealousy when she thinks someone is taking that away. She's reacting to something happening in the moment.

[Grimlock]

Can I pick both? Can't decide which one is worse.

They both are very useless characters and that extends to their "motivation" (can we really call it that?). On one hand, we have a person going nuts just because he was "tormented" by the cry of someone else, on the other hand, we have a person going nuts whenever someone talks to Caulifla... It's a fantasy world, I get it, but that doesn't mean there should have this kind of stupidity. It's not funny; the character is not interesting and this "concept" shouldn't be near Dragon Ball.

[Lord Beerus]

I'd say Broly, but the motivations for both characters is really underwhelming.

Kale's motivations works under the protoge her being having low self confidence and an immense inferiority complex, which doesn't help that she is Kale's "protege" and as such feel more pressure to deliver but deep down feels more like burden to someone she admires.

Broly motivation or "trigger" solely relies on him seeing Goku and having some form animosity towards him. That animosity towards Goku stems from the fact that an infant Goku's loud crying caused Broly as an infant to feel perturbed by him. The fact an infant would remember another infant crying, let alone what another infant would look like, is absurd in any scenerio.

[Cetra]

Broly motivation or "trigger" solely relies on him seeing Goku and having some form animosity towards him. That animosity towards Goku stems from the fact that an infant Goku's loud crying caused Broly as an infant to feel perturbed by him. The fact an infant would remember another infant crying, let alone what another infant would look like, is absurd in any scenerio.

Ah! Ah! Not plausible on the surface but subconsiously.

[Dragonballgod19]

Can I pick both? Can't decide which one is worse.

They both are very useless characters and that extends to their "motivation" (can we really call it that?). On one hand, we have a person going nuts just because he was "tormented" by the cry of someone else, on the other hand, we have a person going nuts whenever someone talks to Caulifla... It's a fantasy world, I get it, but that doesn't mean there should have this kind of stupidity. It's not funny; the character is not interesting and this "concept" shouldn't be near Dragon Ball.

Lmao

[Boo Machine]

Broly. At least Kales makes sense. It maybe a weak and/ or silly motivation, but I buy " Girl who is overly sensitive and has low self-esteem being jealous of her friends cooler friends" than "Psycho who heard baby crying during infancy and somehow still remembers him and his whole driving force is to kill this one baby decades later, as opposed to hating the family that tried to kill him and throw him away."

[Lord Beerus]

Broly motivation or "trigger" solely relies on him seeing Goku and having some form animosity towards him. That animosity towards Goku stems from the fact that an infant Goku's loud crying caused Broly as an infant to feel perturbed by him. The fact an infant would remember another infant crying, let alone what another infant would look like, is absurd in any scenerio.

Ah! Ah! Not plausible on the surface but subconsiously.

But how would an infant remember a face let alone recognize a voice?

[BlueBasilisk]

But how would an infant remember a face let alone recognize a voice?

And would that mean Goku's voice never changed at all in 30-ish years?

[Kanassa]

Broly motivation or "trigger" solely relies on him seeing Goku and having some form animosity towards him. That animosity towards Goku stems from the fact that an infant Goku's loud crying caused Broly as an infant to feel perturbed by him. The fact an infant would remember another infant crying, let alone what another infant would look like, is absurd in any scenerio.

Ah! Ah! Not plausible on the surface but subconsiously.

But how would an infant remember a face let alone recognize a voice?

Actually, did Broly ever even see Goku? From what I remember he simply heard some random baby cry and then heard an adult mention the name 'Kakorott'

Edit: Wait, now I remember, Goku isn't even mentioned by name; he's simply referred to as ''Bardock's Son''

[dbs fanboy]

Broly takes the win with the worse motivation.

Kale is a weak willed person, with 0 confidence and low steem , she doesn't really trust anyone but Caulifla, who seems to be the only character that protects her, cares for her and actually believes in her, trying to help her into believing more in herself. Kale's motivation is fear she went Berserk only when she thought that Caulifla might be taken from her; which makes sense (thought it's really unreasonable) because she's basically her ONLY friend.Thought this is much better handled in ep 100, where Caulifla actually ignores her implying that she was a bother, with god damn Goku telling her to GTFO (in ep 94 Caulifla doesn't flirt with Cabba or ignor Kale in any way).And then when she went mad was because she couldn't control her unstable new form, as in her base form she doesn't show any wish to harm. The only thing that Kale actually lacks off (besides having more personality) it's her background explaining her relationship with Caulilfla and how did she meet her in the first place.

Broly's motivation was his hatred over Kakarot, i don't get the whole "Broly is motivated by a truly tragic childhood" when that's not the case, he didn't lost it when he met Vegeta who resembles the one that actually stabbed him and left him to die. NO!! he directly went for Goku, trying to kill him while he was asleep, and transforming after someone said "Kakarot".

Broly's background is really interesting , but it all ends up being worthless because he ends up simply hating Goku. Had him start to slowly lose it once Vegeta arrived and then explode once Goku arrived, and there, Toei would have nailed it. The worse thing is that the word Kakarot is the trigger, and it doesn't make any sense because if we went with the whole "Broly gets mad because he remembers his bad childhood" then his trigger should have been a crying infant. And to put the nail in the coffin, in the second movie, the only reason he goes to Earth it's because (again) motherfucking Goku.
Thought i must say that something that i absoulutely adore in his second coming, it's the fact that what actually awakes him, is Goten crying.

This is pretty ironic, Kale has motivation but lacks a backstory, Broly has a backstory but lacks motivation.

[Lord Beerus]

But how would an infant remember a face let alone recognize a voice?

And would that mean Goku's voice never changed at all in 30-ish years?

This is most confusing about Broly's trigger. He has to have some idea of who Goku is to recognize him and lose it. He sure as hell didn't see Goku, so I can only assume he heard his voice and recognized him from that? Even though he was an infant at the time.

[TheMikado]

But how would an infant remember a face let alone recognize a voice?

And would that mean Goku's voice never changed at all in 30-ish years?

This is most confusing about Broly's trigger. He has to have some idea of who Goku is to recognize him and lose it. He sure as hell didn't see Goku, so I can only assume he heard his voice and recognized him from that? Even though he was an infant at the time.

Nothing indicates Broly recognized him. This is false.
A fan already did all the forensic work for those who care enough

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37309

[BlueBasilisk]

Nothing indicates Broly recognized him. This is false.
A fan already did all the forensic work for those who care enough

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37309

Thank you for linking this. It's a fascinating read! This is the key bit which I hadn't seen in any versions I'd watched previously:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Which completely recontextualizes all of their interactions in the movie. Why on Earth would that get left out?

So taking that into account along with Paragus' flashback about young Broly...Broly is just an asshole. Not traumatized like some people have suggested, or anything. Just a huge asshole. Pretty much par for the course as movie villains go, I suppose, but somehow that makes him seem even flatter as a character, if somewhat less petty

Even taking this into account, I still believe that Kale has the better motivation as in both instances she's set off by what she thinks is a trespass against her in the moment.

[Duo]

This is pretty ironic, Kale has motivation but lacks a backstory, Broly has a backstory but lacks motivation.

Well, this. Damn good post.

Not much I can add other than the fact I still find it hilarious that DBS went and put a pair of breasts on one of the most masculine characters of all Shonen history.

[TheMikado]

Nothing indicates Broly recognized him. This is false.
A fan already did all the forensic work for those who care enough

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37309

Thank you for linking this. It's a fascinating read! This is the key bit which I hadn't seen in any versions I'd watched previously:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Which completely recontextualizes all of their interactions in the movie. Why on Earth would that get left out?

So taking that into account along with Paragus' flashback about young Broly...Broly is just an asshole. Not traumatized like some people have suggested, or anything. Just a huge asshole. Pretty much par for the course as movie villains go, I suppose, but somehow that makes him seem even flatter as a character, if somewhat less petty

Even taking this into account, I still believe that Kale has the better motivation as in both instances she's set off by what she thinks is a trespass against her in the moment.

It wasn't left out fans just ignore it in an attempt to reduce the writing of the film when in fact it's likely too deep for most of the fandom to actually grasp.

As far as Broly being an asshole its not entirely the case... I will float my own thread for this one.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37299&hilit=lssj

When combined with the concept that Broly is in fact just a personification of the raw SSJ form several things fail into place both logically and metaphorically.
King Vegeta's desire to kill the infant makes sense. He was aware of what he was, and would destroy everyone and everything as Paragus himself says.
Further, if the baby scene is not actually the cause but rather foreshadowing as the movie itself shows us, and Broly is the personification of the saiyan race and heritage, then Goku being destined to defeat the raw personification of his saiyan heritage makes sense as twist of fate or destiny as Paragus again speculates.

The movie through careful framing shows us that Goku, the lowest class saiyan who was able to overcome his own saiyan heritage is the one destined to overcome the personification of his heritage.

Further, It ironically gives us insight into Vegeta's psyche, showing that the one thing he treasured and held in such high regard is, ironically the very thing he is most afraid us when meet face to face with its true nature. The unadulterated savagery and power are things he claims to crave, but when truly met with it he cowers in its presence like an infant.

The writing of this is truly top-notch by any measure of literary deconstruction, however many fans seem to have not even taken English 101 let alone being able to appreciate the literary tools used in this film.

[Saturnine]

Broly went insane due to a combination of huge power he couldn't control, being stabbed as a child, having his planet blown up and roaming around in space, being mindcontrolled his entire life by his own father and, yes, Goku's crying upsetting him during the few moments of peace he had. Goku is the trigger that makes those memories all come back to him and lets the insanity overpower him.

Kale is an obsessive and needy girl that hulked out because her senpai was having fun with someone else. I didn't think they"d outdo Broly but bravo. Perhaps she has believable reasons to be so obsessed with Caulifla but we wouldn't know because this character has literally no backstory at all.

Current events make for a more believable motivation than stuff from babyhood, which shouldn't really be remembered at all. The only thing in Broly's favor is the piling up of many aspects, while for Kale it took just one thing to break.

[Doctor.]

Broly went insane due to a combination of huge power he couldn't control, being stabbed as a child, having his planet blown up and roaming around in space, being mindcontrolled his entire life by his own father and, yes, Goku's crying upsetting him during the few moments of peace he had. Goku is the trigger that makes those memories all come back to him and lets the insanity overpower him.

Kale is an obsessive and needy girl that hulked out because her senpai was having fun with someone else. I didn't think they"d outdo Broly but bravo. Perhaps she has believable reasons to be so obsessed with Caulifla but we wouldn't know because this character has literally no backstory at all.

Current events make for a more believable motivation than stuff from babyhood, which shouldn't really be remembered at all. The only thing in Broly's favor is the piling up of many aspects, while for Kale it took just one thing to break.

Babyhood? Broly's entire life was a living hell.

[TheMikado]

^ pretty much, but as shown in another thread there is zero evidence that Broly remembered Goku before there meeting or that he was made at Goku for the events during that time period. That meeting being Brolys motives is FALSE! The movie itself states what it is.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

Is it weird that when they do dub kale and she goes beserk, the have her voice sound like Vic for a line or two. Just as a joke. Maybe it's just me....I'll go sit in the corner.