Is lasting longer in the tournament a feat on its own?

[Cipher]

Is this a shoe store?

Why do we care so much about feats?

[Ki Breaker]

Is this a shoe store?

Why do we care so much about feats?

Time to decipher this atrocity..

As for your question, caring about feats heel us, it saves our soles..

[JulianStyles]

Is this a shoe store?

Why do we care so much about feats?

A way to rank characters, determine strength and importance.

[Lord Beerus]

Considering that the team with the most amount of opponents left wins the tournament and saves their universe, I guess so, yeah. It has to be feat in that regard. Especially considering how much competition there is.

[VegettoEX]

Yes and no.

I'm not really sure what "feat" there is when you have a winged character saving another character from ring-out. Whose "feat" is that? Should that stipulation/situation/scenario even be taken into consideration?

And what about the hypothetical "weakest character stands in the middle of a circle of more-powerful characters and therefore wins at the very end"? What exactly did they accomplish? Is that "feat" just having better friends than everyone else?

How hypothetical do you want this to go, considering that's all it is beyond yet another transparent excuse for a Kuririn vs. Tenshinhan thread?

[GodKaio-Ken]

Considering that the team with the most amount of opponents left wins the tournament and saves their universe, I guess so, yeah. It has to be feat in that regard. Especially considering how much competition there is.

If you just last longer though it implies you were eventually eliminated.

Its only better if you actually do something.

[TysonWine]

Yes and no.

I'm not really sure what "feat" there is when you have a winged character saving another character from ring-out. Whose "feat" is that? Should that stipulation/situation/scenario even be taken into consideration?

IMO, yes, it should be taken into consideration. Why limit feats strictly to eliminations? Krillin left his safe zone to save a warrior far more powerful than himself. Look at what 18 has accomplished since that save. And she's still in, there's no telling what else she'll do. Saving a warrior stronger than yourself is a pretty big deal, IMO.

Hit saved Caulifla who served as the catalyst for Kale's controlled form, leading to the Saiyan pair eliminating four pride troopers. In hindsight, the save meant a lot.

And what about the hypothetical "weakest character stands in the middle of a circle of more-powerful characters and therefore wins at the very end"? What exactly did they accomplish? Is that "feat" just having better friends than everyone else?

They won. That's the biggest accomplishment. I understand that out-universe we want to see characters put on a show, and are likely to judge characters by their showings of strength, but in-universe the only thing that matters is winning. Everyone has a role to play no matter how minor or simple it may seem. Imagine if the entirety of universe 7 followed Gohan's plan. They ain't losing, I don't care how strong Jiren is. Knowing your role shouldn't be underestimated. It's the reason Goten and Trunks didn't make the team.

[Arg]

It depends. If Character 1 knocked out a few fighters but is the first one out on their team, while Character 2 stood by and did nothing but is one of the last ones out, then Character 1 was probably more of an asset.

Indeed. If let's say Roshi/Tien/Piccolo etc lasted longer than Kuririn but did nothing or got less eliminations/assists, then Kuririn outperformed. Really depends on who does what rather than who lasted longer by staying with a group not doing anything or hiding etc. I'm looking for who contributed the most...

Ok so lets say Krillin has a hand in 3 eliminations and a save. And Piccolo has 2 eliminations and a save. But lasted 10 more episodes than Krillin. Who did better? Keep in mind a point I made earlier. Those that have lasted are dealing with more destruction. More close calls like Kales barrage, Ribrianes love mist. Which if you are honest with yourself Krillin would have been susceptible to. Lasting longer against stronger fighters.

Because I think Roshi will end up with a hand in 3 eliminations but no saves but lasted 6 more episodes and had to fend for himself alone twice. In my book that will put him above Krillins accomplishments.

A combination of different factors is indeed the best evaluation. Also depends on who someone saves; Krillin saving 18 is big points, Vikal saving Kakunsa was less beneficial; thus even tho Vikal outlasted Krillin, her performance (save, endurance) was close to wasted.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Indeed. If let's say Roshi/Tien/Piccolo etc lasted longer than Kuririn but did nothing or got less eliminations/assists, then Kuririn outperformed. Really depends on who does what rather than who lasted longer by staying with a group not doing anything or hiding etc. I'm looking for who contributed the most...

Ok so lets say Krillin has a hand in 3 eliminations and a save. And Piccolo has 2 eliminations and a save. But lasted 10 more episodes than Krillin. Who did better? Keep in mind a point I made earlier. Those that have lasted are dealing with more destruction. More close calls like Kales barrage, Ribrianes love mist. Which if you are honest with yourself Krillin would have been susceptible to. Lasting longer against stronger fighters.

Because I think Roshi will end up with a hand in 3 eliminations but no saves but lasted 6 more episodes and had to fend for himself alone twice. In my book that will put him above Krillins accomplishments.

A combination of different factors is indeed the best evaluation. Also depends on who someone saves; Krillin saving 18 is big points, Vikal saving Kakunsa was less beneficial; thus even tho Vikal outlasted Krillin, her performance (save, endurance) was close to wasted.

Pretty much how I feel with this added:

It really doesnt matter when you're eliminated really. If you arent there after 48 minutes it doesnt matter. Lasting longer will give more chances to help out which is why you'd obviously prefer it. If you do nothing of value in that time though it doesnt really matter if you last 47 minutes or 1.

[JulianStyles]

Yes and no.

I'm not really sure what "feat" there is when you have a winged character saving another character from ring-out. Whose "feat" is that? Should that stipulation/situation/scenario even be taken into consideration?

And what about the hypothetical "weakest character stands in the middle of a circle of more-powerful characters and therefore wins at the very end"? What exactly did they accomplish? Is that "feat" just having better friends than everyone else?

How hypothetical do you want this to go, considering that's all it is beyond yet another transparent excuse for a Kuririn vs. Tenshinhan thread?

You are the only one to come into this topic that has been trasnparently confrontational. The fact that you come into my topics alone and repeat the same line shows your biased and witch hunt nature. You did not come in here to have an intelligent conversation. Here are topics you did not show up in that are in your words "yet another transparent excuse for a Kurrin vs Tenshinhan thread?"

-Who do you think Tien will take out? And how many episodes will he last?
-Tien is the new Yamcha? ( I'm sure if I made a topic saying is "Krillin the new Yamcha" you would have been all over that expressing your annoyance.)
-Tien the weakest link?
-So are we going to ignore the fact Tenshinhan got trashed?

But you conviently show up here. And the topic I alerted you to that was locked. The one on why did Toei hype up Krillin. I thought was a legit thread. But wanted fair treatment on this board.

But lets get to the topic. Because the topic does spark peaceful debate and intellegent conversation that should have its own discussion. Because its shows peoples opinions. I'm sure you didnt bother to read the bulk of the thread. If you did you would not have responded the way you did. I have pointed out the ones that are surviving are surviving Kales ring wide attacks, being separated and making your way back. The destruction. Ribranes love hynosis test. The destruction of the ring to the point where now all fighters have to fend for themselves. Needs to be taken in consideration and is a feat. Because we can get very "hypothetical". Because the hypothetical weaker characters that accomplished a lot but got eliminated early does not go through the grind and struggle of the survival part of the toughest and most intense parts of the tournament. As smart as you carry yourself to be that point should be clear and "transparent" to you.

To recap some things you missed. If Tien gets eliminated now. Then no he did not perform better than Krillin. In a couple of my examples. Krillin has a hand in 3 eliminations and 1 save. When Roshi gets his hand in a 3rd elimination but went through all I listed above and lasting 6 more episodes then that over takes Krillins performance. If Piccolo has 2 eliminations and 1 save but last 15 more episodes struggling through the grind and test of survival. Then he surpasses Krillins accomplishments.

Now to being more hypothetical. If person A is eliminated then person B is eliminated 3 episodes later but person A accomplished more. Then no person B did not do better. But when the time span starts becoming 6,10,15 episodes and events, stakes and the landscape of the fighting has changed then it becomes a feat of its own. A test of durability,stamina and intelligence.

[Akyon]

On the subject of Krillin, him saving 18 has proven to be pretty handy. She's taken out two opponents she wouldn't have been able to had she not been rescued.

So my question I guess would be using the Roshi example is; does Roshi lasting a few more episodes and getting the same KO count equal a better or worse feat than saving a team mate who ended up turning the tide of battle more?

How does one qualify the 'feats' caused by the actions of one character on another?

Another more extreme example would be if Piccolo doesn't KO anyone at all but saves Gohan who ends up surviving til the end, did he outperform Android 18 who has a load of KOs but gets knocked out before the end?

[JulianStyles]

On the subject of Krillin, him saving 18 has proven to be pretty handy. She's taken out two opponents she wouldn't have been able to had she not been rescued.

So my question I guess would be using the Roshi example is; does Roshi lasting a few more episodes and getting the same KO count equal a better or worse feat than saving a team mate who ended up turning the tide of battle more?

How does one qualify the 'feats' caused by the actions of one character on another?

Another more extreme example would be if Piccolo doesn't KO anyone at all but saves Gohan who ends up surviving til the end, did he outperform Android 18 who has a load of KOs but gets knocked out before the end?

Saving 18 has been huge. But I dont think we can credit what a saved person does all on the person who saved them. But the save does mean more than say when that winged girl saved the other U2 member but it amounted to nothing.

So in being consistent if Piccolo doesnt do much indivisually but last longer than 18. Then I would not think he did more.

With Roshi I believe what hes survived and him now having to fight alone for the next 3 episodes then getting a solo elimination will be greater than Krillins contribution and indivisual success.

So my barometer on survival is what did you endure. Not just standing around.

[Doctor.]

I'm sure the Trio de Dangers are a bunch of weaklings that even Roshi and Tenshinhan could take out.

[JulianStyles]

I'm sure the Trio de Dangers are a bunch of weaklings that even Roshi and Tenshinhan could take out.

The lightning flash surprise attack and Kikoho can take out SS2 level characters. But I dont think Roshi can survive a hand to hand combat them. Tien and Krillin could probably survive a hand to hand altercation with Lavender and Basil. Bergamo is like in that SS3-SSB. Right in between there. Think strategy will have to be used on him. But U9 as a whole seemed to be not only lowest mortal level but the lowest IQ level.

[Doctor.]

I'm sure the Trio de Dangers are a bunch of weaklings that even Roshi and Tenshinhan could take out.

The lightning flash surprise attack and Kikoho can take out SS2 level characters. But I dont think Roshi can survive a hand to hand combat them. Tien and Krillin could probably survive a hand to hand altercation with Lavender and Basil. Bergamo is like in that SS3-SSB. Right in between there. Think strategy will have to be used on him. But U9 as a whole seemed to be not only lowest mortal level but the lowest IQ level.

SS2? Where the hell did you get that from?

[Jigurashi]

I'm sure the Trio de Dangers are a bunch of weaklings that even Roshi and Tenshinhan could take out.

The lightning flash surprise attack and Kikoho can take out SS2 level characters. But I dont think Roshi can survive a hand to hand combat them. Tien and Krillin could probably survive a hand to hand altercation with Lavender and Basil. Bergamo is like in that SS3-SSB. Right in between there. Think strategy will have to be used on him. But U9 as a whole seemed to be not only lowest mortal level but the lowest IQ level.

SS2? Where the hell did you get that from?

Who knows where he got that from. Nothing at all suggests the Lightning Flash Surprise or Kikoho can take out SS2 level fighters.

[JulianStyles]

The lightning flash surprise attack and Kikoho can take out SS2 level characters. But I dont think Roshi can survive a hand to hand combat them. Tien and Krillin could probably survive a hand to hand altercation with Lavender and Basil. Bergamo is like in that SS3-SSB. Right in between there. Think strategy will have to be used on him. But U9 as a whole seemed to be not only lowest mortal level but the lowest IQ level.

SS2? Where the hell did you get that from?

Who knows where he got that from. Nothing at all suggests the Lightning Flash Surprise or Kikoho can take out SS2 level fighters.

Just speculation based on facts. Tien in the Android saga could send Semi perfect Cell flying 98 a times in the Anime. Cell was not fast enough to escape it nor strong enough to fly though it. Semi perfect Cell is in between SS1 and SS2. Right or wrong? So 12 years of training for Tien you dont think the Kikoho is powerful enough to pusb a SS2 level character out the ring if caught? I said take out, no destroy or even seriously hurt. But if in the Android saga it could push Semi Cell deep into the Earth and even back down into it when he flew out. So use logic and progression of time. Also Supers ass pulls that boosted everyone up.

To Roshi. If you studied DB and read the Daizenshuu or desceiptions you would know its not a normal ki attack but uses the person owns ki against them. So it potentially could work against anyone. In a DB world where a laser can take off a off gaurd Goku or bullet can hurt Krillin. Its not that far fetched that the
Bankoku Bikkuri Shō which gets stronger the more you move would work on Bergamo.

Side note the magazine release that came out with all the names. Every Universe had its strongest fighter listed first. Preecho was first for U3 so in line with all the other Universes he is that Universes strongest one. Dont see why that would change just for that. Not to be confused Nigurish whos U3 strongest modified warrior. Preecho is organic. So a nice little fact that Tien and Roshi took out U3 strongest fighter. Unfortunately we wont be able to gauge how strong U3 is as they are fodder being taken out by one hits.

[Jigurashi]

SS2? Where the hell did you get that from?

Who knows where he got that from. Nothing at all suggests the Lightning Flash Surprise or Kikoho can take out SS2 level fighters.

Just speculation based on facts. Tien in the Android saga could send Semi perfect Cell flying 98 a times in the Anime. Cell was not fast enough to escape it nor strong enough to fly though it. Semi perfect Cell is in between SS1 and SS2. Right or wrong? So 12 years of training for Tien you dont think the Kikoho is powerful enough to pusb a SS2 level character out the ring if caught? I said take out, no destroy or even seriously hurt. But if in the Android saga it could push Semi Cell deep into the Earth and even back down into it when he flew out. So use logic and progression of time. Also Supers ass pulls that boosted everyone up.

To Roshi. If you studied DB and read the Daizenshuu or desceiptions you would know its not a normal ki attack but uses the person owns ki against them. So it potentially could work against anyone. In a DB world where a laser can take off a off gaurd Goku or bullet can hurt Krillin. Its not that far fetched that the
Bankoku Bikkuri Shō which gets stronger the more you move would work on Bergamo.

Side note the magazine release that came out with all the names. Every Universe had its strongest fighter listed first. Preecho was first for U3 so in line with all the other Universes he is that Universes strongest one. Dont see why that would change just for that. Not to be confused Nigurish whos U3 strongest modified warrior. Preecho is organic. So a nice little fact that Tien and Roshi took out U3 strongest fighter. Unfortunately we wont be able to gauge how strong U3 is as they are fodder being taken out by one hits.

Semi Perfect Cell took zero damage from Ten's assault and is a fodder to post-Rosat Trunks, who is weaker to post-Rosat Vegeta, who is fodder to post-Rosat Goku, who is a good deal weaker than SSJ Gohan and straight fodder to SSJ2 Gohan. Super's asspulls haven't helped Tenshinhan out at all so far, so that's not a good argument for your case. You're only interesting point is that it pushed Cell into the ground, problem is, as we saw, Gohan straight up dumpstered Ten before he could even use the Kikoho, despite fighting Goku at the time. Someone far stronger (thus faster) could easily do the same thing.

Roshi only has a slightly better case. Even then he runs into the problem of people being too fast for him as well. Not to mention, your argument would probably work better on someone else than Bergamo who can absorb people's ki to boost his own strength.

[JulianStyles]

Who knows where he got that from. Nothing at all suggests the Lightning Flash Surprise or Kikoho can take out SS2 level fighters.

Just speculation based on facts. Tien in the Android saga could send Semi perfect Cell flying 98 a times in the Anime. Cell was not fast enough to escape it nor strong enough to fly though it. Semi perfect Cell is in between SS1 and SS2. Right or wrong? So 12 years of training for Tien you dont think the Kikoho is powerful enough to pusb a SS2 level character out the ring if caught? I said take out, no destroy or even seriously hurt. But if in the Android saga it could push Semi Cell deep into the Earth and even back down into it when he flew out. So use logic and progression of time. Also Supers ass pulls that boosted everyone up.

To Roshi. If you studied DB and read the Daizenshuu or desceiptions you would know its not a normal ki attack but uses the person owns ki against them. So it potentially could work against anyone. In a DB world where a laser can take off a off gaurd Goku or bullet can hurt Krillin. Its not that far fetched that the
Bankoku Bikkuri Shō which gets stronger the more you move would work on Bergamo.

Side note the magazine release that came out with all the names. Every Universe had its strongest fighter listed first. Preecho was first for U3 so in line with all the other Universes he is that Universes strongest one. Dont see why that would change just for that. Not to be confused Nigurish whos U3 strongest modified warrior. Preecho is organic. So a nice little fact that Tien and Roshi took out U3 strongest fighter. Unfortunately we wont be able to gauge how strong U3 is as they are fodder being taken out by one hits.

Semi Perfect Cell took zero damage from Ten's assault and is a fodder to post-Rosat Trunks, who is weaker to post-Rosat Vegeta, who is fodder to post-Rosat Goku, who is a good deal weaker than SSJ Gohan and straight fodder to SSJ2 Gohan. Super's asspulls haven't helped Tenshinhan out at all so far, so that's not a good argument for your case. You're only interesting point is that it pushed Cell into the ground, problem is, as we saw, Gohan straight up dumpstered Ten before he could even use the Kikoho, despite fighting Goku at the time. Someone far stronger (thus faster) could easily do the same thing.

Roshi only has a slightly better case. Even then he runs into the problem of people being too fast for him as well. Not to mention, your argument would probably work better on someone else than Bergamo who can absorb people's ki to boost his own strength.

I specifically said it didnt hurt Cell. So your point is redundant. To say 0 damage is to stretch it to hate. Cell was screaming in pain, with scratches and smoke coming off him. You saw Kale walk through SSB Gokus Kamehameha blast, thats 0 damage. You remember 1st form Cell stood still and smiled against Piccolos Light Grenade. Thats 0 damage. Remember when 16s punch did not move 2nd form Cell. That was 0 damage. So please lets not exacerbate something to possibly hammer home a point.

Tenshinhan was confident his Kikoho would stop Piccolos attack and push him out of bounds. In fact Goku was confident as he told him to go for Piccolo. Matter of fact Gohan was more confident he had to intefere with an attack that slows down time in order to blast Tien from using it. Then to make sure came crashing down full force cracking the moutain in half. And Tien was still alert and in bounds.

I brought up Piccolo because we saw 2 episodes prior Piccolo could take on Gohans SS2. So Tiens Kikoho would have worked on Piccolo who is at a weak SS2 Gohan level.

[Jigurashi]

Just speculation based on facts. Tien in the Android saga could send Semi perfect Cell flying 98 a times in the Anime. Cell was not fast enough to escape it nor strong enough to fly though it. Semi perfect Cell is in between SS1 and SS2. Right or wrong? So 12 years of training for Tien you dont think the Kikoho is powerful enough to pusb a SS2 level character out the ring if caught? I said take out, no destroy or even seriously hurt. But if in the Android saga it could push Semi Cell deep into the Earth and even back down into it when he flew out. So use logic and progression of time. Also Supers ass pulls that boosted everyone up.

To Roshi. If you studied DB and read the Daizenshuu or desceiptions you would know its not a normal ki attack but uses the person owns ki against them. So it potentially could work against anyone. In a DB world where a laser can take off a off gaurd Goku or bullet can hurt Krillin. Its not that far fetched that the
Bankoku Bikkuri Shō which gets stronger the more you move would work on Bergamo.

Side note the magazine release that came out with all the names. Every Universe had its strongest fighter listed first. Preecho was first for U3 so in line with all the other Universes he is that Universes strongest one. Dont see why that would change just for that. Not to be confused Nigurish whos U3 strongest modified warrior. Preecho is organic. So a nice little fact that Tien and Roshi took out U3 strongest fighter. Unfortunately we wont be able to gauge how strong U3 is as they are fodder being taken out by one hits.

Semi Perfect Cell took zero damage from Ten's assault and is a fodder to post-Rosat Trunks, who is weaker to post-Rosat Vegeta, who is fodder to post-Rosat Goku, who is a good deal weaker than SSJ Gohan and straight fodder to SSJ2 Gohan. Super's asspulls haven't helped Tenshinhan out at all so far, so that's not a good argument for your case. You're only interesting point is that it pushed Cell into the ground, problem is, as we saw, Gohan straight up dumpstered Ten before he could even use the Kikoho, despite fighting Goku at the time. Someone far stronger (thus faster) could easily do the same thing.

Roshi only has a slightly better case. Even then he runs into the problem of people being too fast for him as well. Not to mention, your argument would probably work better on someone else than Bergamo who can absorb people's ki to boost his own strength.

I specifically said it didnt hurt Cell. So your point is redundant. To say 0 damage is to stretch it to hate. Cell was screaming in pain, with scratches and smoke coming off him. You saw Kale walk through SSB Gokus Kamehameha blast, thats 0 damage. You remember 1st form Cell stood still and smiled against Piccolos Light Grenade. Thats 0 damage. Remember when 16s punch did not move 2nd form Cell. That was 0 damage. So please lets not exacerbate something to possibly hammer home a point.

Tenshinhan was confident his Kikoho would stop Piccolos attack and push him out of bounds. In fact Goku was confident as he told him to go for Piccolo. Matter of fact Gohan was more confident he had to intefere with an attack that slows down time in order to blast Tien from using it. Then to make sure came crashing down full force cracking the moutain in half. And Tien was still alert and in bounds.

I brought up Piccolo because we saw 2 episodes prior Piccolo could take on Gohans SS2. So Tiens Kikoho would have worked on Piccolo who is at a weak SS2 Gohan level.

It isn't stretching. In the manga Cell took little to no damage. You're exaggerating it by fanboyism by saying that. Please don't exaggerate that feat when no, he wasn't screaming in pain in the manga and walked out of that crater more annoyed than anything.

Ten was confident but that doesn't mean much, since Ten also doesn't know the level of strength Piccolo is at himself. Goku told him to go for Piccolo because Goku wanted to take on Gohan himself. Hell, Goku had to tell Ten to attack the dude who is stationary instead of trying to attack Gohan. That would have been the smart thing. We would have gotten something more concrete had Ten tried attacking Piccolo from the start. Ten being alert and in bounds didn't really mean much. He was prevented from doing literally anything that entire sparring match, all by one guy who had most of his focus on fighting Ten's partner than Ten himself.

That's the problem, you can't actually prove it'd work on Piccolo. Not only that, what is stopping Piccolo from just blitzing Ten? It's what I'm saying. Unless Ten's opponent is an idiot and just going to stand and get caught, or get caught off guard like how Cell was, how is he tagging an SSJ2 level fighter?