How powerful do you think Jiren is?

[MrBlackFox]

I think he's stronger than Beerus, but weaker than Vegetto.

Powerful enough to make people quit the show

[Legion]

Why does it have to be "proven otherwise" when it was never stated in the first place? Shouldn't that be the other way around; prove that it is Jiren.

Goku asked Whis if they had any chance at all in winning this tournament, to which Whis replied: "I don't know much about the other universes, but there is a mortal somewhere even a God of Destruction can't defeat, and that GoD happens to be even stronger than Beerus-sama!" This was in response to Goku asking if they could win in THIS tournament!

Couple of things:

1. Whis and Beerus would point this universe out. They know which GoD it is. If their universe was participating, then Beerus would've already given up hope, as there is no way that U7 could defeat such a being, even if they all attacked this individual at the same time. They wouldn't keep U7 in the dark about this universe if it were relevant to the tournament.

2. Just because Goku asked if they had a chance to win in the tournament doesn't mean Whis was referring to a fighter from it. It's intentionally vague. Whis was more pointing out just how powerful mortals can get, and that U7 should keep that in mind when facing the other universes. It was an implicit word of caution. Again, Beerus and Whis know this GoD, and if they know the god, they know the universe. And they would outright say it. They wouldn't even have to know who Jiren is, they would literally just point out U11. Goku can't even beat a non-serious Beerus, there's no way he'd be able to stand up to a being above even that.

We haven't even seen anything yet to put Jiren at Beerus' level.

I agree with this. Also, in the new episode both Beerus and Shin were surprised that universe 11 was strong enough to give Hit trouble and that they gathered powerful warriors. Nonsense if Jiren is that mortal .-. Or is a really bad writing or is not Jiren.

And in combination with all of that, Jiren has been hyped up as no one before! As someone absolutely crazy, and to make matters worse for you guys, Goku is getting a new Transformation in order to match it! And i certainly don't see how this new legendary Form that's been hyped up so much by now, can possibly still be weaker than Beerus! It just can't, he will surpass the SSJ Blue Vegetto that we saw earlier in the Zamasu arc.

Actually yes, is really possible, since i'm sure that one day we'll see Goku vs Beerus rematch and Beerus is still a moving goal post in both anime and manga. And guys, don't be mad when this "hyped new form" will be useless in the next arc like all the other ones

[MagmonKai]

We know for a FACT based on evidence in the manga and anime that Goku and Vegeta are no where near the power of Lord Beerus. That means if Goku is to win this tournamanet he has to beat Jiren. Because we know he probably will beat Jiren, we can't say that Jiren is stronger than Beerus. I would guess that this new form will improve Goku's Blue Speed, Power, Agility by at least more than 10x. Jiren is probably greater than Kaio-kenx10 which is Goku's current max. I'd say he's between SSBKx10 and Goku's Limit Break Form.

[perucho1990]

As for now, weaker than Genkidama Trunks, who surpassed Vegetto in raw strength, and easily was Hakaishin level.

[WittyUsername]

As for now, weaker than Genkidama Trunks, who surpassed Vegetto in raw strength, and easily was Hakaishin level.

Didn't the manga claim that Vegetto was stronger than Beerus?

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

As for now, weaker than Genkidama Trunks, who surpassed Vegetto in raw strength, and easily was Hakaishin level.

Didn't the manga claim that Vegetto was stronger than Beerus?

That seemed like Shin speculating. At least that's how I perceive it.

[KingKaash]

I think he's stronger than Beerus, but weaker than Vegetto.

It seems like you're implying that SSJB Vegetto is stronger than Beerus. How do you know that? What are you basing that off of? Because I don't think SSJB Vegetto can even beat Beerus

"What a terrible ki. I've never seen such a powerful light."
"Your position as god surpasses our understanding."
"His power has not only increased, but I feel it has expanded infinitely."
- Comments about Zamasu Gattai

"You are only a human, but you have a power that surpasses the gods." - Zamasu Gattai. < He's not referring the Kaiohshins because we know that Goku and Vegeta already surpassed every Kaiohshin since the Boo saga.

Goku SS3 was easily defeated with 2 weak strikes from Beerus, but Goku fought Beerus using his base form again, he was able to resist normal punches from Beerus in his base form.

Goku SS3 and Vegeta SS2 weren't able to keep up a fight with Super Boo (Gotenks or Gohan), but with the Potara fusion, Vegetto was able to almost kill Super Boo without using his full power.

The Boo saga Vegetto (SS1), was as powerful as Goku SS4, now you have a base on how powerful a fusion between Goku and Vegeta is. Even if Goku Blue has 8% of Beeru's power, Vegetto would be stronger, that's not just a multiplier, its a potentialization and Vegetto still have that boost, a fusion between rivals are stronger than an ordinary fusion.

Your quote about Zamsu saying "surpasses the gods" is Zamasu referring to Vegito?

And I understand your potentialization but that's all theory. I have my own theory that SSJB Goku and SSJB Vegeta separately but fighting together cannot beat Beerus. So even if they fused and you add some more power to their combined power since that's what a Fusion does, they wouldn't still be close to Beerus.

But overall both of our thoughts are just theories. There's no concrete proof that SSJB Vegito is stronger than Beerus

[Potara_Vegetto]

It seems like you're implying that SSJB Vegetto is stronger than Beerus. How do you know that? What are you basing that off of? Because I don't think SSJB Vegetto can even beat Beerus

"What a terrible ki. I've never seen such a powerful light."
"Your position as god surpasses our understanding."
"His power has not only increased, but I feel it has expanded infinitely."
- Comments about Zamasu Gattai

"You are only a human, but you have a power that surpasses the gods." - Zamasu Gattai. < He's not referring the Kaiohshins because we know that Goku and Vegeta already surpassed every Kaiohshin since the Boo saga.

Goku SS3 was easily defeated with 2 weak strikes from Beerus, but Goku fought Beerus using his base form again, he was able to resist normal punches from Beerus in his base form.

Goku SS3 and Vegeta SS2 weren't able to keep up a fight with Super Boo (Gotenks or Gohan), but with the Potara fusion, Vegetto was able to almost kill Super Boo without using his full power.

The Boo saga Vegetto (SS1), was as powerful as Goku SS4, now you have a base on how powerful a fusion between Goku and Vegeta is. Even if Goku Blue has 8% of Beeru's power, Vegetto would be stronger, that's not just a multiplier, its a potentialization and Vegetto still have that boost, a fusion between rivals are stronger than an ordinary fusion.

Your quote about Zamsu saying "surpasses the gods" is Zamasu referring to Vegito?

And I understand your potentialization but that's all theory. I have my own theory that SSJB Goku and SSJB Vegeta separately but fighting together cannot beat Beerus. So even if they fused and you add some more power to their combined power since that's what a Fusion does, they wouldn't still be close to Beerus.

But overall both of our thoughts are just theories. There's no concrete proof that SSJB Vegito is stronger than Beerus

Yes, Zamasu referring to Vegetto.

[BlueBasilisk]

I think he'll be strong enough to fight off the 10x Kaioken but not a whole lot stronger than that. Maybe 15x SSB Goku or so and I feel like that's a rather high estimate.

[Sonofman]

I doubt he is stronger than a God of Destruction. He maybe able to fight on par with one for awhile, but he wouldn't be able to defeat one. Heck, even a SSB Kaio Ken Goku scared Beerus (don't know if that anime scene is canon or not), but that's not enough to beat him. I think he should be just below God level.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I seriously doubt Jiren is on Beers' level. Beers knows Goku and Vegeta aren't strong enough to handle him at their current level. Goku and Vegeta are also aware that they still have a long way to go before catching up to Beers. If Jiren was on that same level or stronger, all of them would know U7 was screwed right from the get go.

So I believe he's below Beers and above everyone else.