Will Piccolo get anything from the Universe 6 Namekians?

[Whatever]

Obuni was able to keep up with a Gohan who is presumably SSB-tier. Piccolo probably wouldn't even be able to keep up with Base Goku / Vegeta. His strategy is laughable. It usually consists of running around, playing tag or hide and seek, using hideous attacks like antenna beam, looking scared, splitting off and making himself even weaker, and then looking scared when his opponent gets anywhere near him. That to me is pretty pathetic.

Piccolo's best feat was defeating SSJ2 Gohan, while a suppressed Android 17 not only completely overwhelmed SSJ Goku, but gave a suppressed SSB Goku a great fight. How did Piccolo do against Goku? He failed against his base form.

Not sure if this matters, but power-wise, I have Piccolo on the higher end of the Buu saga considering how easily he defeated a very new-and-improved SSJ2 Gohan. The only problem is, that level of power at this point is just irrelevant compared to the real powerhouses.

I see,so thats how double standards work,you kiss the ground Vegeta walks on when he spent the whole Namek saga being a coward.
Not to mention him being a chicken when he saw full stamina Golden Freeza.How convenient for you to forget all of this.

The biggest difference between Tien / Piccolo and Vegeta is the progress that they made. I've made a pretty long post comparing the three, but I shall do it again briefly.

Tien:

Has a school full of weaklings that collectively probably can't even take on King Piccolo or beginning of DB Goku.

Likes to hide and run away using cheesy techniques that not only look ridiculous, but also end up serving no real purpose.

Tries to win with an attack that he probably sees as his masterpiece, only to have it fail and have him be the first to hit the ground.

Lives a loner life basically. Even his old friend Krillin defended Vegeta when he went on his little rant about Vegeta's loyalty.

Was put in his place years ago, and had to realize that doesn't have a spot as one of Goku's rivals.

Piccolo:

Likes to hide and run away using cheesy techniques that not only look ridiculous, but also end up serving no real purpose (The two strategists have a lot in common).

Tries to win with a powerful attack that takes way too much time charging up, and almost never delivers as it is meant to. Definitely not worth the wait.

No one outside of Gohan and Goku seem to care for him.

Pushed around by a woman not even her own husband really listens to.

Apparently trains all the time, but makes very negligible progress. I'm beginning to wonder if he considers talking to his wimpy pal Mr. Popo training.

Vegeta:

Uses his hard-earned strength gained from years of hard work and commitment to the right kind of training to win battles.

Has lots of great moves and techniques. Not sure why people assume Piccolo and Tien are better fighters than someone who probably has way more combat experience, and is basically born as a fighter.

Looked up to as a hero being only second to Goku.

Kept pushing past his limits and reaching new heights.

Has a loving family.

So while Vegeta may have not shown his best side back on Namek, he's in a great place now compared to those two strategists there.

No doubt he is stronger than those 2 but you still have not proved how he is less of a coward than those 2.
Even if you ignore the namek saga,he still was scared of full stamina Golden Freeza despite insisting to fight his 4th form before that.
And only fought Golden Freeza after Goku did all the work of tiring him,he was a coward since he was scared of fighting Freeza at his best.

Also lol at him being looked up as a hero,even Bulma in the Future Trunks arc said that Goku was gonna handle it in his face,Bulma told him up front he is a non factor.
You cannot get more blunt than this.

[Lionel]

Piccolo and Tenshinhan neglect to use their most novel abilities. Why? Who can say. It's possible Toriyama may have forgotten about them as he so characteristically does throughout Dragon Ball's serialisation. Tenshinhan didn't have too many opportunities to fight after the 23rd tournament anyway; his only substantive on-screen fight in Z was against the Saibaman, and he overwhelmed that creature with two attacks. It's really a shame because with the progressional phasing out of DB's original roster for characters like Vegeta, they weren't given some of the possible privileges given to DBZ's roster -- no Kaioken, no God Ki, nothing. When you're still operating by early series conditions, of course you're not going to make very much headway in power levels or narrative contribution. Toriyama didn't even have the recollection/decency to consider the Mafuba being used by Piccolo or Tenshinhan against whatever villain of the week.

That's always been my problem with Toriyama, he doesn't seem interested leveling up the non-saiyan cast members or having them contribute with their individual skillsets(either because he forgot or just doesn't care). He introduces all these plot devices that can help characters improve, but strangely none characters take advantage of them. The Ultra Divine Water, no one but Goku drank it, Kaioken, no one else ever learned it, the Time Chamber, no one but Goku and Vegeta takes advantage of it, Gravity Training, Goku showed in the Frieza Saga how beneficial it can be, start low and work up, that's the way to go, but again no one but Vegeta, even bothered with this method, then their is the Old Kai's potential unlock ritual allowing a warrior to be their "Ultimate" self, he did this for Gohan and just Gohan, no one else was offered or even asked him. Then theirs keeping your Ki contained in your body, while powering up, which increases a warriors power, will anyone but Goku and Vegeta use this method, I think we all know the answer to that.

Totally agree. The process of phasing out the classic cast members was ongoing since Z's inception, but you could tell by the treatment they earned, sans Krillin during the Freeza arc, that they were unimportant holdovers of Dragon Ball which Toriyama did everything in his power to get out of the way. Sure, they have their moments later on like with Tenshinhan's Kikoho, but none of it can compare to the meticulous brick by brick mapping out of the Saiyans' progression through the story, their trials, their aspirations, ect. Where's the discontent from Piccolo about getting left behind after the Room of Spirit and Time was introduced? Why aren't Tenshinhan and Krillin cursing their own lack of power and vowing to improve themselves so they can be an asset to the group in the future? As you said, Toriyama offered some capable tools with which the non-Saiyans could have been allowed to keep up. Why he didn't follow through with it is anyone's guess. Who knows what's really going on in that skull of his.

I have to admit, I do like the sound of Ultimate Kaioken Piccolo or Ultimate Kaioken Tenshinhan. Just from the name alone, your first impression might be that this is supposed to be a considerable respectable boost in power.

[supercat]

If those Namekians end up being Piccolo's rival, they're basically ending up in the same pile of trash as the other strategists. Rivals are usually (not always) pretty close in power. Considering where Piccolo probably stands on the power scale, it would be sad for the new Namekians if they were anywhere near that.

It'd be best if they fought one of the Saiyans, Android 17, or Frieza. Maybe Piccolo can watch a fight like that fight and learn a thing or two and that could be how he powers up. That is if he's not too busy grocery shopping with ChiChi, babysitting Pan after the tournament, or being forced to pick cabbages.

Piccolo having the nerve to smile when a failed weakling like Tien saved him just shows how lowly he sees himself. He should be ashamed he had to accept help from someone like that.

Eh, the power scale in this tourney is not accurate enough to judge how strong Piccolo is. Look at Vegeta, he's been struggling more than he should with opponents who look to be Buu-Cell saga level. He's still struggling with Magetta and Botamo, even after all the powerups he's had between the U6 and now. He and Goku used Blue on the Trio de Dangers even when SSJ was enough to take them out. The sniper was just as much of a danger to them as he was to Tien, Gohan, and Piccolo. If we just look at that last example, then it seems like everyone is relative to the same power level, but we know that's not the case.

We don't know a lot about Piccolo's power. With the evidence we got, he can either be a little less than SSJ2 or much higher than SSJ3 since he trained with Ultimate Gohan for a while after he pushed him into unlocking it. If he's SSJ3 then he's easily near the ranks of Android 17, Cabba, Caulifla, Kale, Frost. But the tournament is so vague that he could literally be at any level that T, T, or T wants. But from what we've seen of the tourney so far, he's easily mid-tier power-wise. I think Buu saga is the mid tier and Cell saga is the high point of the low tier. I honestly don't know where your hate for him comes from. He's done basically nothing in this tournament.

There's enough implications that point towards Android 17 being leagues ahead of Piccolo. Android 17 in his suppressed state not only completely humiliated SSJ Goku, but he was able to contend with SSB Goku. One may even say that SSB Goku, though also suppressed seem to have been exerting more than Android 17. Until Piccolo shows a feat like that, I'm going to have a hard time placing him anywhere near even suppressed Android 17, who I have at SSB-tier. SSJ3 level is too low. If he was SSJ3-tier there probably would have been more indication and they probably would have shown Goku fighting him as SSJ3. A generous place on the power scale for Piccolo is the higher end of the Buu saga.

[supercat]

I see,so thats how double standards work,you kiss the ground Vegeta walks on when he spent the whole Namek saga being a coward.
Not to mention him being a chicken when he saw full stamina Golden Freeza.How convenient for you to forget all of this.

The biggest difference between Tien / Piccolo and Vegeta is the progress that they made. I've made a pretty long post comparing the three, but I shall do it again briefly.

Tien:

Has a school full of weaklings that collectively probably can't even take on King Piccolo or beginning of DB Goku.

Likes to hide and run away using cheesy techniques that not only look ridiculous, but also end up serving no real purpose.

Tries to win with an attack that he probably sees as his masterpiece, only to have it fail and have him be the first to hit the ground.

Lives a loner life basically. Even his old friend Krillin defended Vegeta when he went on his little rant about Vegeta's loyalty.

Was put in his place years ago, and had to realize that doesn't have a spot as one of Goku's rivals.

Piccolo:

Likes to hide and run away using cheesy techniques that not only look ridiculous, but also end up serving no real purpose (The two strategists have a lot in common).

Tries to win with a powerful attack that takes way too much time charging up, and almost never delivers as it is meant to. Definitely not worth the wait.

No one outside of Gohan and Goku seem to care for him.

Pushed around by a woman not even her own husband really listens to.

Apparently trains all the time, but makes very negligible progress. I'm beginning to wonder if he considers talking to his wimpy pal Mr. Popo training.

Vegeta:

Uses his hard-earned strength gained from years of hard work and commitment to the right kind of training to win battles.

Has lots of great moves and techniques. Not sure why people assume Piccolo and Tien are better fighters than someone who probably has way more combat experience, and is basically born as a fighter.

Looked up to as a hero being only second to Goku.

Kept pushing past his limits and reaching new heights.

Has a loving family.

So while Vegeta may have not shown his best side back on Namek, he's in a great place now compared to those two strategists there.

Vegeta the slugger has a lot of great moves and techniques? Ahahahhahhaahahah!
You are very funny thank you.

Not as funny as when Hit got smacked around by Dyspo. Had it not been for Goku, Hit would have been gone. Too bad Goku had to step in and save him.

[supercat]

I see,so thats how double standards work,you kiss the ground Vegeta walks on when he spent the whole Namek saga being a coward.
Not to mention him being a chicken when he saw full stamina Golden Freeza.How convenient for you to forget all of this.

The biggest difference between Tien / Piccolo and Vegeta is the progress that they made. I've made a pretty long post comparing the three, but I shall do it again briefly.

Tien:

Has a school full of weaklings that collectively probably can't even take on King Piccolo or beginning of DB Goku.

Likes to hide and run away using cheesy techniques that not only look ridiculous, but also end up serving no real purpose.

Tries to win with an attack that he probably sees as his masterpiece, only to have it fail and have him be the first to hit the ground.

Lives a loner life basically. Even his old friend Krillin defended Vegeta when he went on his little rant about Vegeta's loyalty.

Was put in his place years ago, and had to realize that doesn't have a spot as one of Goku's rivals.

Piccolo:

Likes to hide and run away using cheesy techniques that not only look ridiculous, but also end up serving no real purpose (The two strategists have a lot in common).

Tries to win with a powerful attack that takes way too much time charging up, and almost never delivers as it is meant to. Definitely not worth the wait.

No one outside of Gohan and Goku seem to care for him.

Pushed around by a woman not even her own husband really listens to.

Apparently trains all the time, but makes very negligible progress. I'm beginning to wonder if he considers talking to his wimpy pal Mr. Popo training.

Vegeta:

Uses his hard-earned strength gained from years of hard work and commitment to the right kind of training to win battles.

Has lots of great moves and techniques. Not sure why people assume Piccolo and Tien are better fighters than someone who probably has way more combat experience, and is basically born as a fighter.

Looked up to as a hero being only second to Goku.

Kept pushing past his limits and reaching new heights.

Has a loving family.

So while Vegeta may have not shown his best side back on Namek, he's in a great place now compared to those two strategists there.

No doubt he is stronger than those 2 but you still have not proved how he is less of a coward than those 2.
Even if you ignore the namek saga,he still was scared of full stamina Golden Freeza despite insisting to fight his 4th form before that.
And only fought Golden Freeza after Goku did all the work of tiring him,he was a coward since he was scared of fighting Freeza at his best.

Also lol at him being looked up as a hero,even Bulma in the Future Trunks arc said that Goku was gonna handle it in his face,Bulma told him up front he is a non factor.
You cannot get more blunt than this.

That's why I added in the part, "being only second to Goku." If Goku wasn't around, who do you think the Z-fighters would be relying on to save everyone?
Could it be... Krillin? No, not Krillin.

Could it be...Goten? No, not Goten either.

Could it be...Tien? Oh gosh no, how is that even a suggestion.

Could it be... Yamcha? Nope, definitely not Yamcha either.

Oh so it must be Piccolo then right? Wrong, he's out grocery shopping with ChiChi.
But what about when he's back? Yeah not with that powerlevel.

So without Goku, there's really no one else they could see as a hero. Although, Gohan definitely fits the description of a hero quite well, his power isn't anywhere near Vegeta.

[Whatever]

That's why I added in the part, "being only second to Goku." If Goku wasn't around, who do you think the Z-fighters would be relying on to save everyone?
Could it be... Krillin? No, not Krillin.

Could it be...Goten? No, not Goten either.

Could it be...Tien? Oh gosh no, how is that even a suggestion.

Could it be... Yamcha? Nope, definitely not Yamcha either.

Oh so it must be Piccolo then right? Wrong, he's out grocery shopping with ChiChi.
But what about when he's back? Yeah not with that powerlevel.

So without Goku, there's really no one else they could see as a hero. Although, Gohan definitely fits the description of a hero quite well, his power isn't anywhere near Vegeta.

If Goku was not around then they would simply wait for him like they always do,thats what they did in rof as well.
If Vegeta is there and he is not busy changing Bulla's diaper then he would simple be there to stall for time until Goku gets there like all the others.
Being stronger than the others does not change Vegeta's position even if Goku is not there,even his own wife does not think him as a hero.

[namekiansaiyan]

Regarding Saonel and Pilina, if they were as powerful as some are alleging then they would have been included in the Champa arc as participants; that tournament was supposed to represent the crème de la crème of each universe in groups of five. Caulifla and Kale had yet to unleash their Super Saiyan potential so it's understandable that they would not have been included. The U6 Namekian fighters likely weren't on par with Magetta, and by extension U6 Super Saiyan tier. It's true we don't know where the pair would stand now since a good amount of time has elapsed between the Champa and Tournament of Power arcs. However, with Hit being described as Team U6's trump card, I very much doubt they're SSJB tier. They may not stack up well against the two new Saiyans. So if anything my first expectation would be that they're closer in power to Piccolo than Goku and Vegeta.

This is the worst reason of all. Champa in the manga acted as if he actually forgot about the Namekians and when he saw Piccolo he was always going to get them for this tournament. He also got 2 and not 1 as well. It also looks like we won't even see them until after the special and why not just show us them already.

Eh, the power scale in this tourney is not accurate enough to judge how strong Piccolo is. Look at Vegeta, he's been struggling more than he should with opponents who look to be Buu-Cell saga level. He's still struggling with Magetta and Botamo, even after all the powerups he's had between the U6 and now. He and Goku used Blue on the Trio de Dangers even when SSJ was enough to take them out. The sniper was just as much of a danger to them as he was to Tien, Gohan, and Piccolo. If we just look at that last example, then it seems like everyone is relative to the same power level, but we know that's not the case.

We don't know a lot about Piccolo's power. With the evidence we got, he can either be a little less than SSJ2 or much higher than SSJ3 since he trained with Ultimate Gohan for a while after he pushed him into unlocking it. If he's SSJ3 then he's easily near the ranks of Android 17, Cabba, Caulifla, Kale, Frost. But the tournament is so vague that he could literally be at any level that T, T, or T wants. But from what we've seen of the tourney so far, he's easily mid-tier power-wise. I think Buu saga is the mid tier and Cell saga is the high point of the low tier. I honestly don't know where your hate for him comes from. He's done basically nothing in this tournament.

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan isn't the same as Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Piccolo with a charged attack didn't even make Goku go Super Saiyan. He's nowhere near any of the people you named. Not to mention, who said Magetta and Botamo didn't get stronger too since they knew Zen'o was going to have a tournament eventually and Champa had them on speed-dial.

Why do Toei always act as if they do then?

[Michsi]

Regarding Saonel and Pilina, if they were as powerful as some are alleging then they would have been included in the Champa arc as participants; that tournament was supposed to represent the crème de la crème of each universe in groups of five. Caulifla and Kale had yet to unleash their Super Saiyan potential so it's understandable that they would not have been included. The U6 Namekian fighters likely weren't on par with Magetta, and by extension U6 Super Saiyan tier. It's true we don't know where the pair would stand now since a good amount of time has elapsed between the Champa and Tournament of Power arcs. However, with Hit being described as Team U6's trump card, I very much doubt they're SSJB tier. They may not stack up well against the two new Saiyans. So if anything my first expectation would be that they're closer in power to Piccolo than Goku and Vegeta.

This is the worst reason of all. Champa in the manga acted as if he actually forgot about the Namekians and when he saw Piccolo he was always going to get them for this tournament. He also got 2 and not 1 as well. It also looks like we won't even see them until after the special and why not just show us them already.

Here's another question related to this issue. Was it ever stated that Cabba was the strongest saiyan from U6 ? I can't remember, because if no, then we have another problem with Champa's choices in first tourament. Caulifla might have yet to unleash their Super Saiyan potential, but so did Cabba, and yet he ended up in the tournament and Caulifla didn't (Kale is a different situation because she didn't seem strong to anyone before)

I know the character had yet to exist, but if they went and found a loophole for Caulifla and Kale, they could come up with one for the namekians as well. The stakes weren't that high in the first tournament arc, they might've just refused the same way Gohan did.

If they really are weaker than we expect them to be, then my guess is they were brought in for Piccolo to play sensei again, same way Vegeta and Goku do with Cabba and Caulifla (bleh)

[namekiansaiyan]

Regarding Saonel and Pilina, if they were as powerful as some are alleging then they would have been included in the Champa arc as participants; that tournament was supposed to represent the crème de la crème of each universe in groups of five. Caulifla and Kale had yet to unleash their Super Saiyan potential so it's understandable that they would not have been included. The U6 Namekian fighters likely weren't on par with Magetta, and by extension U6 Super Saiyan tier. It's true we don't know where the pair would stand now since a good amount of time has elapsed between the Champa and Tournament of Power arcs. However, with Hit being described as Team U6's trump card, I very much doubt they're SSJB tier. They may not stack up well against the two new Saiyans. So if anything my first expectation would be that they're closer in power to Piccolo than Goku and Vegeta.

This is the worst reason of all. Champa in the manga acted as if he actually forgot about the Namekians and when he saw Piccolo he was always going to get them for this tournament. He also got 2 and not 1 as well. It also looks like we won't even see them until after the special and why not just show us them already.

Here's another question related to this issue. Was it ever stated that Cabba was the strongest saiyan from U6 ? I can't remember, because if no, then we have another problem with Champa's choices in first tourament. Caulifla might have yet to unleash their Super Saiyan potential, but so did Cabba, and yet he ended up in the tournament and Caulifla didn't (Kale is a different situation because she didn't seem strong to anyone before)

I know the character had yet to exist, but if they went and found a loophole for Caulifla and Kale, they could come up with one for the namekians as well. The stakes weren't that high in the first tournament arc, they might've just refused the same way Gohan did.

If they really are weaker than we expect them to be, then my guess is they were brought in for Piccolo to play sensei again, same way Vegeta and Goku do with Cabba and Caulifla (bleh)

I was thinking the exact same thing. How can everyone assume Cabba was the strongest Saiyan and I still think there are stronger Saiyans in Universe 6 Saiyan.

Why hide the Namekians for so long just to dissapoint?

[Michsi]

I was thinking the exact same thing. How can everyone assume Cabba was the strongest Saiyan and I still think there are stronger Saiyans in Universe 6 Saiyan.

To be fair, Cabba being the strongest saiyan of U6 is a very plausible conjecture. You'd think that's who Champa would choose to be on his team, especially since he showed specific interest in them after meeting Goku and Vegeta. It just might be that he half-assed the whole recruitment process after he got Hit and thought any decently strong saiyan would do. We can't even be sure he hand picked every single one of his team members. Beerus left that mostly to Goku and Vegeta too.

Why hide the Namekians for so long just to dissapoint?

It wouldn't be the first time. Also, it just might so happen that what we want doesn't line up with what the writers think we want. They definitely seem to think we like seeing Piccolo take a hit for Gohan over and over again. And heck, maybe the vast but silent majority do. Maybe the writers will think we don't want to see any namekians stronger than Piccolo. Maybe they are there simply for Piccolo to get his big win before getting eliminated.

[namekiansaiyan]

Why hide the Namekians for so long just to dissapoint?

It wouldn't be the first time. Also, it just might so happen that what we want doesn't line up with what the writers think we want. They definitely seem to think we like seeing Piccolo take a hit for Gohan over and over again. And heck, maybe the vast but silent majority do. Maybe the writers will think we don't want to see any namekians stronger than Piccolo. Maybe they are there simply for Piccolo to get his big win before getting eliminated.

1. They could have just shown them fully in episode 96 and becuase they didn't there are still many people who don't know they exist as they didn't concentrate when Zeno was going through the Godpad.

2. Fans definitely do not like seeing Piccolo protect Gohan and that is both Gohan and Piccolo fans. Toei just use is it to create pointless drama that in the end means nothing.

3. If there are stronger Namekians that would just make Piccolo fans excited as he can then reach that level.

4. Would it be a big win if they are a lot weaker than Piccolo?

5. They must have something to bring as I don't see a reason why Toriyama would even put them in the tournament at all since both Cabba and Frost at least brought something with them to the series when they were introduced.

[Olympian]

Not sure what you meant by having better team work than anyone save Vegeta, Freeza, and Buus. Their teamworks is decent, but it's a little sad that they have to rely so much on each other, and on things like hiding and running away, using cheesy attacks, and hiding some more, when all fighters like Vegeta, Trunks, Android 17, and Frieza pretty much just rely on nothing more than their own punches, kicks, and ki attacks. Some of those characters have relied on teamwork as well, but they sort of outgrew it by reaching power levels that actually count.

Freeza was also taking hits he`s never taken before exactly because of teamwork. The moral of the story is that Freeza is to be scoffed at because he only relied on whatever genetics he had and no formal training. That`s a fairly old theme in Shonen.

The only problem with the Nappa battle was, over half the team was decimated before Goku even got there.

But the strategy employed by all of them is what allowed Goku to arrive in time to face them with some of his allies still kicking with only one city down. Otherwise it would be totally a different scenario with the chance of him arriving too late to do anything.

The result was the invasion dragging himself to his ship and begging for his life.

[Olympian]

If Goku was not around then they would simply wait for him like they always do,thats what they did in rof as well.
If Vegeta is there and he is not busy changing Bulla's diaper then he would simple be there to stall for time until Goku gets there like all the others.
Being stronger than the others does not change Vegeta's position even if Goku is not there,even his own wife does not think him as a hero.

Vegeta is there to stall someone longer for Goku to arrive. Always have been and always will be. I prefer Vegeta to be written as self aware of it as well.

[Michsi]

1. They could have just shown them fully in episode 96 and becuase they didn't there are still many people who don't know they exist as they didn't concentrate when Zeno was going through the Godpad.

Here's the thing though: if most people don't even know they exist, there isn't really anyone there to disappoint. It's just us handful of eagle-eyed fans that discuss every promotional material who caught sight of them and subsequently built expectations around their reveal. For those who aren't really aware of their existence, them coming and going in one episode wouldn't mean much because they had no real time to invest any interest in their actions. We'd be disappointed, sure, but most probably will just shrug it off.

They could very well be just there as a bit of fan service because namekians are the only other prominent race from Dragon Ball.

2. Fans definitely do not like seeing Piccolo protect Gohan and that is both Gohan and Piccolo fans. Toei just use is it to create pointless drama that in the end means nothing.

It's not about what fans actually/definitely want, but what the writers think fans want. Herein lies the problem.

3. If there are stronger Namekians that would just make Piccolo fans excited as he can then reach that level.

And maybe they don't want that, because that would require them investing more time and effort in a character they might not deem popular enough and therefore not worth all that trouble. Saiyans all the way....I guess I'm just a cynic when it comes to Piccolo

4. Would it be a big win if they are a lot weaker than Piccolo?

Not by a lot, obviously. Not saying they might end up being a joke, just not among they heavy hitters of this arc.

5. They must have something to bring as I don't see a reason why Toriyama would even put them in the tournament at all since both Cabba and Frost at least brought something with them to the series when they were introduced.

Nothing exponential as far as I can tell. Cabba in the end was just there to make Vegeta look good and help expand background knowledge about U6 saiyans, Frost was nowhere near as menacing or impressive as Freeza. Honestly, I think the only character of that arc that left an impression seems to be Hit.

[namekiansaiyan]

1. They could have just shown them fully in episode 96 and becuase they didn't there are still many people who don't know they exist as they didn't concentrate when Zeno was going through the Godpad.

Here's the thing though: if most people don't even know they exist, there isn't really anyone there to disappoint. It's just us handful of eagle-eyed fans that discuss every promotional material who caught sight of them and subsequently built expectations around their reveal. For those who aren't really aware of their existence, them coming and going in one episode wouldn't mean much because they had no real time to invest any interest in their actions. We'd be disappointed, sure, but most probably will just shrug it off.

They could very well be just there as a bit of fan service because namekians are the only other prominent race from Dragon Ball.

3. If there are stronger Namekians that would just make Piccolo fans excited as he can then reach that level.

And maybe they don't want that, because that would require them investing more time and effort in a character they might not deem popular enough and therefore not worth all that trouble. Saiyans all the way....I guess I'm just a cynic when it comes to Piccolo

Why would they just throw characters away? This is the kind of stuff Toei want from Toriyama. If we didn't though they were Namekians then everyone would be saying "I can't wait to see the 2 guys in the shadows, they must be good" or "they are hiding them so well so they must be good" but as soon as they are revealed to be Namekians no one seems to care and see them as a waste of time.

All I have to say is thay Toriyama does not create two Namekians that look like Lord Slug and Piccolo just to make them a joke especially when he made Dr Rota a joke character for team Universe 6 already.

I like to think that they gave us a subtle hint to how good they by the position on the Godpad for the Universe 6 fighters since the first 5 are the original Universe 6 team and 6-10 goes:
6. Saonel
7. Pilina
8. Kale
9. Caulifla
10. Dr Rota

8-10 are in strength order and most assume that Saonel is stronger than Pilina so the new 5 could easily be in strength order.

This last bit just shows how much I want to know about these Namekians

[HeroR]

Regarding Saonel and Pilina, if they were as powerful as some are alleging then they would have been included in the Champa arc as participants; that tournament was supposed to represent the crème de la crème of each universe in groups of five. Caulifla and Kale had yet to unleash their Super Saiyan potential so it's understandable that they would not have been included. The U6 Namekian fighters likely weren't on par with Magetta, and by extension U6 Super Saiyan tier. It's true we don't know where the pair would stand now since a good amount of time has elapsed between the Champa and Tournament of Power arcs. However, with Hit being described as Team U6's trump card, I very much doubt they're SSJB tier. They may not stack up well against the two new Saiyans. So if anything my first expectation would be that they're closer in power to Piccolo than Goku and Vegeta.

This is the worst reason of all. Champa in the manga acted as if he actually forgot about the Namekians and when he saw Piccolo he was always going to get them for this tournament. He also got 2 and not 1 as well. It also looks like we won't even see them until after the special and why not just show us them already.

Eh, the power scale in this tourney is not accurate enough to judge how strong Piccolo is. Look at Vegeta, he's been struggling more than he should with opponents who look to be Buu-Cell saga level. He's still struggling with Magetta and Botamo, even after all the powerups he's had between the U6 and now. He and Goku used Blue on the Trio de Dangers even when SSJ was enough to take them out. The sniper was just as much of a danger to them as he was to Tien, Gohan, and Piccolo. If we just look at that last example, then it seems like everyone is relative to the same power level, but we know that's not the case.

We don't know a lot about Piccolo's power. With the evidence we got, he can either be a little less than SSJ2 or much higher than SSJ3 since he trained with Ultimate Gohan for a while after he pushed him into unlocking it. If he's SSJ3 then he's easily near the ranks of Android 17, Cabba, Caulifla, Kale, Frost. But the tournament is so vague that he could literally be at any level that T, T, or T wants. But from what we've seen of the tourney so far, he's easily mid-tier power-wise. I think Buu saga is the mid tier and Cell saga is the high point of the low tier. I honestly don't know where your hate for him comes from. He's done basically nothing in this tournament.

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan isn't the same as Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Piccolo with a charged attack didn't even make Goku go Super Saiyan. He's nowhere near any of the people you named. Not to mention, who said Magetta and Botamo didn't get stronger too since they knew Zen'o was going to have a tournament eventually and Champa had them on speed-dial.

Why do Toei always act as if they do then?

How? Super Saiyan 2 Gohan got own by Piccolo who then got his arm cut off by Ultimate Gohan. A stronger Ultimate Gohan had troubled with Super Saiyan 2 Goku and Piccolo didn't do a thing to base form Goku.

They're not treated the same at all.

[Michsi]

Why would they just throw characters away? This is the kind of stuff Toei want from Toriyama. If we didn't though they were Namekians then everyone would be saying "I can't wait to see the 2 guys in the shadows, they must be good" or "they are hiding them so well so they must be good" but as soon as they are revealed to be Namekians no one seems to care and see them as a waste of time.

Most around here seem interested enough in what they might do, but again, that's just small percentage of the fandom. The reception might be a little lackluster compared to what the other characters got because namekians just haven't been given the same importance as saiyans. I would love for the writers to use these lowered expectations against us by making those two a bigger deal than we'd thought, but again, not holding my breath.

All I have to say is thay Toriyama does not create two Namekians that look like Lord Slug and Piccolo just to make them a joke especially when he made Dr Rota a joke character for team Universe 6 already.

That's an extreme. I already mentioned that I don't think it would be thatbad. There is a huge difference on the scale of importance between Jiren and Dr. Rota, so no one is saying they'll be put near the bottom.
But I get that people have different value systems by which they rate things , (I thought Piccolo in 106 was good, other's couldn't look past the arm thing and though it made him into a joke) and for some the characters that are not on par with SSj Blue or Ribrianne or Kale or whatever will seem like a waste.

Edit: as for that placing on the pad. Seems like a stretch. I really doubt it means anything. Not convinced of the elimination order theory from the ending, and this seems even less likely to be a hidden message.
But for the record, I too am 95% convinced that Saonel is the stronger of the two.


Also just thought of something. We know that they healing items aren't allowed, but what of healing techniques? What if one of them is a healer like Dende and that's why he's there. Damn, I hope not.

[namekiansaiyan]

Edit: as for that placing on the pad. Seems like a stretch. I really doubt it means anything. Not convinced of the elimination order theory from the ending, and this seems even less likely to be a hidden message.

It would be a good hidden message that makes sense though unlike the other theories.

[Michsi]

Edit: as for that placing on the pad. Seems like a stretch. I really doubt it means anything. Not convinced of the elimination order theory from the ending, and this seems even less likely to be a hidden message.

It would be a good hidden message that makes sense though unlike the other theories.

Wouldn't that require for the other teams to be listed in order of power as well? Don't think that's the case with U7.

[namekiansaiyan]

Edit: as for that placing on the pad. Seems like a stretch. I really doubt it means anything. Not convinced of the elimination order theory from the ending, and this seems even less likely to be a hidden message.

It would be a good hidden message that makes sense though unlike the other theories.

Wouldn't that require for the other teams to be listed in order of power as well? Don't think that's the case with U7.

Not really because the Universe 6 order is the 5 previous fighters and then the new 5. Universe 7 is basically Saiyans, Namekian, Earthlings, Androids and Frieza in that order. Universe 11 is sort of in strength order with the first 3 being Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo. It is just one of those things you notice but probably means nothing.