Does Japan really hate Tien? (Episode 106)

[TekTheNinja]

I don't know how many times I can keep repeating myself here. Far beyond all else, I find the video's usage of exaggerated, antagonistic language to be amateur-hour internet personality nonsense and I have zero interest in consuming material produced this way. This extends far beyond its title and its first minute of commentary, and sets a negative basis for any further attempts at said commentary.

At best that shtick is played out, and at worst it continues to perpetuate a Dragon Ball community discourse culture in that style. Enough with the "asspull" forum comments, and enough with the "Toriyama handjob" video commentary.

You cannot effectively deliver authoritative, concise, thoughtful commentary — which is what I'm looking for — in this manner. Whatever point there might be is lost, and that's on the commentator, not me as a consumer.

I think that is on you as the consumer though. Your personal dislike of his terminology and method of speaking is your own problem. That's not his fault as a content creator and to say that is his fault is putting yourself on a moral high ground for being more "proper" or whatever. To claim your preference for method of discourse is superior to his is pure self gratification.

[Whatever]

I don't know how many times I can keep repeating myself here. Far beyond all else, I find the video's usage of exaggerated, antagonistic language to be amateur-hour internet personality nonsense and I have zero interest in consuming material produced this way. This extends far beyond its title and its first minute of commentary, and sets a negative basis for any further attempts at said commentary.

At best that shtick is played out, and at worst it continues to perpetuate a Dragon Ball community discourse culture in that style. Enough with the "asspull" forum comments, and enough with the "Toriyama handjob" video commentary.

You cannot effectively deliver authoritative, concise, thoughtful commentary — which is what I'm looking for — in this manner. Whatever point there might be is lost, and that's on the commentator, not me as a consumer.

That is how I feel.

The video has a point, but it's done in such away that kills debate and seems like a meme.

Yeah i agree with this as well.
He is right that everyone got treated well in the recruitment arc outside of Tien and he is indeed very correct on how badly they handled/treated him.
In fact i found the video funny because of how he compared characters side by side to show how badly Tien was treated in return.

But the 'Toriyama handjob' counterpoint does not make much sense nor in what he means or what it stands for despite being very memetic.

[VegettoEX]

I think that is on you as the consumer though. Your personal dislike of his terminology and method of speaking is your own problem. That's not his fault as a content creator and to say that is his fault is putting yourself on a moral high ground for being more "proper" or whatever. To claim your preference for method of discourse is superior to his is pure self gratification.

I feel like you're half not-reading what I'm explaining. Several times now I've stated how "Tien" and dub terminology is the least of its problems. Yes, they're problems as I've outlined above, but the least of them.

Independent of that, if I come across as standing on a self-gratifying moral high ground because I want more mature discourse in the Dragon Ball fan community... well, so be it.

[TekTheNinja]

I think that is on you as the consumer though. Your personal dislike of his terminology and method of speaking is your own problem. That's not his fault as a content creator and to say that is his fault is putting yourself on a moral high ground for being more "proper" or whatever. To claim your preference for method of discourse is superior to his is pure self gratification.

I feel like you're half not-reading what I'm explaining. Several times now I've stated how "Tien" and dub terminology is the least of its problems.

Independent of that, if I come across as standing on a self-gratifying moral high ground because I want more mature discourse in the Dragon Ball fan community... well, so be it.

Okay, but I didn't say shit about the usage of his dub name, so you're just pulling that back out of nowhere.

And yes. Yes it does. Your idea of "maturity" is making every matter discussed like it's a damn office meeting. This isn't a big fancy political debate, it's a tangent video about a character in freakin' Dragon Ball. Your idea that it's not "mature" enough for you is absolutely ludicrous.

[VegettoEX]

Okay, but I didn't say shit about the usage of his dub name, so you're just pulling that back out of nowhere.

I interpreted my "personal dislike of his terminology" as the dub name/terminology. I guess you're referring to the exaggerated, antagonistic delivery.

Your idea of "maturity" is making every matter discussed like it's a damn office meeting. This isn't a big fancy political debate, it's a tangent video about a character in freakin' Dragon Ball. Your idea that it's not "mature" enough for you is absolutely ludicrous.

As I said, so be it. I don't like this kind of content, I don't want there to be more of this type of content, and I've expressed the reasons why I feel this way.

[TekTheNinja]

Your idea of "maturity" is making every matter discussed like it's a damn office meeting. This isn't a big fancy political debate, it's a tangent video about a character in freakin' Dragon Ball. Your idea that it's not "mature" enough for you is absolutely ludicrous.

As I said, so be it. I don't like this kind of content, I don't want there to be more of this type of content, and I've expressed the reasons why I feel this way.

Fair enough for the MOST part but I should say that I don't go around saying that people should stop making your preferred kinds of content, so it is simply annoying when you say that you think people should stop making it entirely. I understand if it's not your cup of tea, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist is what I'm saying.

[Dbzfan94]

No offense, but is constantly going, "Sub fans do this too" and "The dub isn't wrong" necessary ?

When certain people love to bash dub fans for everything and always point blame to them with every little thing, yes. One person in particular does it very frequently on here and YouTube (and possibly other platforms as well). On many places especially on here, sub fans are like angels that can do no wrong. Which is complete bullshit. So yes, I will absolutely call foul when appropriate.

And I didn't say "the dub isn't wrong." Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm just saying that using Krillin or Tien isn't necessarily wrong in context of the dub and frankly it's a little arrogant just to say "that's not the name"

[Soppa Saia People]

No offense, but is constantly going, "Sub fans do this too" and "The dub isn't wrong" necessary ?

When certain people love to bash dub fans for everything and always point blame to them with every little thing, yes. One person in particular does it very frequently on here and YouTube (and possibly other platforms as well). On many places especially on here, sub fans are like angels that can do no wrong. Which is complete bullshit. So yes, I will absolutely call foul when appropriate.

Outside of a couple people, pretty much no one here is villafining dub fans, and praising sub fans. Like most people crack jokes about both, or just don't care.


Edit: To be fair, sometimes when people are talking about the fandom, some people portray Dub fans as dumb and ignorant, and sub fans as annoying douche bags, so I can get how that can be a bit condescending, but who cares ? It happens so rarely.

And I didn't say "the dub isn't wrong." Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm just saying that using Krillin or Tien isn't necessarily wrong in context of the dub and frankly it's a little arrogant just to say "that's not the name"

Fair point, but it's true, it's not the name. Yes it is a valid name, but it's not the name.

[MaskedRider]

I'm starting to see people quote this video on other videos and take it as fact, to paraphrase, people are actually taking it to heart that the reason why Tenshinhan isn't being taken seriously is because of him being "Chinese" and boy if this isn't cursed and making snakes physically manifest in my house then I don't know what is.

To be fair my first mistake was reading youtube comments. Is this bothering anyone else?

[Lionel]

It's true that Tenshinhan lacks very much explored characterisation beyond his relationship with Chaozu and introvertive taciturnity. However, that's not to say Toei and Toriyama don't have any conceptual ideas they could bring to life in order to revitalise his character. What else do we know about Tenshinhan besides his philosophical dedication to martial arts and friendship with Chaozu? He's a former student of the Crane School who, in spite of having a falling out with its leader due to ideological differences, still wears the colours and equips himself with the abilities of their group. It just so happens that many of the presently competitive Z-fighters happen to Kame House practitioners or they gleaned some of their abilities from the Kame style. Why couldn't Tenshinhan seek to redeem the honour of the Crane style by battling with their techniques and improving upon them against foes who are becoming increasingly stronger? Don't just let Kamehameha become the signature bane of enemies. Show them what the Crane style is capable of while demonstrating how Crane is the more versatile fighting method than Turtle; revitalise the rivalry.

Another facet to Tenshinhan's personality is his weariness of former enemies like Vegeta and Piccolo. Unlike some of the other core group who seem content to have those two living and mingling with them, Tenshinhan still seems to retain some hint of uneasiness around them, as we saw back in the Cell arc and again in the RoF when he questioned Vegeta's motives iirc. Why can't Toei and Toriyama build upon this lack of trust by having Tenshinhan pursue avenues of strength acquisition so he can become powerful enough to fight without the need for the likes of Vegeta battling as a primary representative of Earth? I can't imagine Tenshinhan enjoying being powerless relative to this Saiyan. So why not have use that discontent as motivation to improve?

[Meshack]

The only way we can know if Japan likes Tenshinhan is by popularity polls. In the lastest popularity poll in Dragon Ball Forever, Tenshinhan is more liked than Bulma, No. 17, Yajirove, and Videl. Everyone else topples over Tenshinhan. If we go by this, Tenshinhan is less liked than Majin-Boo, who is in 8th place, most of the team is above Boo but Freeza is below. Anyway, Tenshinhan was kept for the Tournament besides Boo so popularity doesn’t really matter.