MaskedRider wrote:
This could be good or bad depending on how you view GT
Well I don't like GT and it doesn't remind me of anything from GT. But I guess what Precita sees in GT & this arc may be different than me.
I know some people thought Vegeta with the pacifier was supposed to be a homage to Baby Vegeta. Not sure if that is what Toei was thinking but maybe.
GT is not horrible, but this arc reminded me of the boring side of it.
Yes but my point is I hated GT but loved this arc. That is why "like GT" probably means different things to different people.
Like a lot of people seemed to want Gotenks (Goten & Trunks) but I was happy as I said with all the Vegeta & Trunks moments. It wasn't necessarily an exciting arc but I found it fun. Plus it was short and sweet.
PMD wrote:power scale was ruined way before that and it was something stupid anyway.
Since when has consistent writing been stupid ? The amount of passes super gets is truly amazing. What's more is that anything else would get called out on for far less.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
sintzu wrote:I think it might've been fine if they used it to give the kids some screen time but they didn't so it doesn't have anything to stand on.
Pretty much this. They just used it to bury more side characters and forever ruined the power scale (considerably more) as a result.
Who cares about power scale. It was ruined way before that and it was something stupid anyway.
That's why I said "considerably more". The Pontifadoo arc just added needless complications to what was a fairly understandable (though admittedly messy) scale before. Nah, its not stupid. Dragon Ball is primarily a fighting anime, so it makes sense that we'd want to know who's stronger than who, hence a power scale.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-
For a three episode mini-arc, I was shocked at how much of a slog it is to get through. The mini-arc wasted Goten, Trunks, Jaco and concept of traveling through space and exploring planets just wank off Goku. It really did feel like an episode ripped straight out of the Black Star Dragon Ball arc in GT.
Re-watching it... hasn't changed my opinion on it that much. The ending of the final episode of the mini-arc is terrible and it waste good concepts and characters who really could have used this screentime to shine.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Well I don't like GT and it doesn't remind me of anything from GT. But I guess what Precita sees in GT & this arc may be different than me.
I know some people thought Vegeta with the pacifier was supposed to be a homage to Baby Vegeta. Not sure if that is what Toei was thinking but maybe.
GT is not horrible, but this arc reminded me of the boring side of it.
Yes but my point is I hated GT but loved this arc. That is why "like GT" probably means different things to different people.
Like a lot of people seemed to want Gotenks (Goten & Trunks) but I was happy as I said with all the Vegeta & Trunks moments. It wasn't necessarily an exciting arc but I found it fun. Plus it was short and sweet.
It felt like a bad episode of the GT Black star dragonball adventure arc. Unlike those episodes, this arc didn't add anything to the DBZ universe in terms of world building or character design, didn't have any plot and had bad animation. Almost as bad as the RoF arc but at least it only lasted a few episodes. A poorly written gag arc that failed to be funny.
Torturephile wrote:
GT is not horrible, but this arc reminded me of the boring side of it.
Yes but my point is I hated GT but loved this arc. That is why "like GT" probably means different things to different people.
Like a lot of people seemed to want Gotenks (Goten & Trunks) but I was happy as I said with all the Vegeta & Trunks moments. It wasn't necessarily an exciting arc but I found it fun. Plus it was short and sweet.
It felt like a bad episode of the GT Black star dragonball adventure arc. Unlike those episodes, this arc didn't add anything to the DBZ universe in terms of world building or character design, didn't have any plot and had bad animation. Almost as bad as the RoF arc but at least it only lasted a few episodes. A poorly written gag arc that failed to be funny.
It was only a couple episodes and had some Vegeta & Trunks moments which I really enjoyed.
And I did find Vegeta wanting a good fight between his copy and Goku to be very amusing but to each their own.
I am perfectly fine with people disliking it but just because it didn't add anything for you doesnt mean it didn't add anything for someone else. True it may not have built anything in terms of the DB world but it had character moments I loved.
Yes but my point is I hated GT but loved this arc. That is why "like GT" probably means different things to different people.
Like a lot of people seemed to want Gotenks (Goten & Trunks) but I was happy as I said with all the Vegeta & Trunks moments. It wasn't necessarily an exciting arc but I found it fun. Plus it was short and sweet.
It felt like a bad episode of the GT Black star dragonball adventure arc. Unlike those episodes, this arc didn't add anything to the DBZ universe in terms of world building or character design, didn't have any plot and had bad animation. Almost as bad as the RoF arc but at least it only lasted a few episodes. A poorly written gag arc that failed to be funny.
It was only a couple episodes and had some Vegeta & Trunks moments which I really enjoyed.
And I did find Vegeta wanting a good fight between his copy and Goku to be very amusing but to each their own.
I am perfectly fine with people disliking it but just because it didn't add anything for you doesnt mean it didn't add anything for someone else. True it may not have built anything in terms of the DB world but it had character moments I loved.
That's a thing I also enjoyed, seeing some father-son moments between those two. I find that Super excels at giving us interactions like that more than the previous series.
From Super episode 113 thread:
MaskedRider wrote:
Torturephile wrote:
hunduel wrote:I liked this episode. I seriously don't know why people hate it.
namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.
PMD wrote:power scale was ruined way before that and it was something stupid anyway.
Since when has consistent writing been stupid ? The amount of passes super gets is truly amazing. What's more is that anything else would get called out on for far less.
Au contraire. Consistent writing is never stupid. But the fact that you think "consistent writing" is to have numbers that makes you easy to follow a narrative, it's laughable. Dragon Ball didn't have any power scales and to this day is the best saga of all DB Universe in terms of storytelling, so don't come up with that "consistency" thing. The worst mistake Toriyama/Toei ever made was introducing power scales. It's a very lame tool to describe characters and their actions and it treats the viewers/readers as stupid people who can't notice by themeselves what's going on. They probably noticed that and they dumped that concept, thank God.
PMD wrote:The fact that you think "consistent writing" is to have numbers that makes you easy to follow a narrative, it's laughable.
I don't mean numbers, I mean clear things like character X is stronger or weaker than character Y. In the original manga you can easily tell who's stronger than who but you can't do that with Super.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
PMD wrote:The fact that you think "consistent writing" is to have numbers that makes you easy to follow a narrative, it's laughable.
I don't mean numbers, I mean clear things like character X is stronger or weaker than character Y. In the original manga you can easily tell who's stronger than who but you can't do that with Super.
I think that's pretty clear. You don't need power scales to tell that. In fact, I like the uncertainty between Goku and Vegeta's power, and Beerus with, for example, Vegeto Blue. What's the point to have all explained if it doesn't leave room to especulate or debate? It's pretty closed otherwise. In the ToP you have a lot of characters that are super strong and that makes you wonder "what if this character (let's say, Gohan) transforms or powers up and face him/her?" We don't know if Golden Freeza can keep up with, let's say, Toppo or Hit. And I think that's good and healthy for the narrative.
Power scales is lazy writing and viewers/readers who wants it are, deep inside, lazy viewers/readers. Gotta make that brain work to make it more entertaining!
PMD wrote:I like the uncertainty between Goku and Vegeta's power, and Beerus with, for example, Vegeto Blue. What's the point to have all explained if it doesn't leave room to especulate or debate?
My issues are with things like #17 being able to fight a SsjB Goku.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
PMD wrote:I like the uncertainty between Goku and Vegeta's power, and Beerus with, for example, Vegeto Blue. What's the point to have all explained if it doesn't leave room to especulate or debate?
My issues are with things like #17 being able to fight a SsjB Goku.
What did you expect? They wouldn't bring #17 back if he was just strong as Piccolo. Anyway, this is off topic now. Sorry to the author.
PMD wrote:I like the uncertainty between Goku and Vegeta's power, and Beerus with, for example, Vegeto Blue. What's the point to have all explained if it doesn't leave room to especulate or debate?
My issues are with things like #17 being able to fight a SsjB Goku.
Would him being an android help with that? They have advantages such as never being tired and supposedly infinite power. To me, putting those things into consideration as well technological enhancements, its not so much that it puts him on that level but allows him to withstand it imo. Would like to hear what you think
PMD wrote:Anyway, this is off topic now. Sorry to the author.
I don't mind though I'm sure the mods would prefer it to be on topic
I think my main problem with it at the time was that it undermined the fake-Goku concept in the upcoming major arc by having an underwhelming fake-Vegeta sidestory immediately before it.
I had been struggling to even find consistently decent things about Super from the beginning of the series. Up to that point, I had been a casual and didn't see the latest episode every week - I would play catch-up every few weeks. This mini arc wiped out any motivation at the time to continue on with the series. Vegeta with a pacifier to cap it off had me shaking my head in such numbing disappointment (I was already indifferent about the series), and it's still by far the most ridiculous thing that I've seen come out of a DB series, imo. That's saying something (I haven't seen GT).
The idea of it was ok, but the execution was all-time bad, imo.
I think that I made it through the first two episodes of the F.Trunks/Black arc before I dropped out. A friend of mine -- who was more of a casual than me -- hasn't seen an episode of Super since he dropped out following the final episode of the Potaufeu mini-arc. I haven't gone back to re-watch those episodes, and it would've been ok if they were kept as optional, but then Goku mentioned about it later during the next arc. It's like TOEI really wanted those episodes counted. Anyway, I jumped off of Super for 30-ish episodes and then got back on early this year (with the bonus to watch a few episodes back-to-back). The series got much better afterwards, and has still been plagued with various problems, but, I'm here. :p
